Comparing 2007 to 2013

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by Apeman

Even being able to have this conversation this season leaves me thrilled.

absolutely.

[malscott]

I don't know enough about BB to know the difference. But the fact they are writing an article about this team and even comparing it to the '04's is really quite a compliment. Decent company to be compared to. Their legacy is still being developed and it would be very cool if we could witness another banner being placed in the O-dome.

[ncgatorfan]

This makes me want to go watch some old dvd I have of the 04's ... man were they good.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

The 2007 team was one of the greatest college teams I have had the pleasure of watching. I do not think this year's squad would match up evenly.... Nor would many others that I can think of.

No kidding.

We are talking about one of the top 3 teams (IMHO) over the past 30 years against a nice team that hasn't WON JACK SQUAT YET!

UNC 1982, Duke 1992 the other two.....I personally think that the UF team would dog the 1990 UNLV team as well as the 1996 Kentucky team. Georgetown 1984 is on the short list as well.

that's my list and I'm sticking to it!


by the way, Insti....yeguette over richard????? that's straight crazy talk

and I like Yeguette don't get me wrong.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

This discussion is of course premature. If 2012-13 wins the NCAA tourney or comes close, then we can rank it with 1999-2000, 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Still, I will play along and they did forget one comparison:

PG: I would take Green over Wilbekin mainly for Green's ball handling, but it is closer than anyone would have guessed in November. So edge 2007. Agree.

SG: I think Boynton over Humphrey is pretty easy. Humphrey was a a solid defender, but Boynton is an excellent defender. So edge 2013. Agree, but as someone said, Humphrey was a perfect role player for his team.

SF: Brewer gets the edge over Rosario. Both had/have a little ball security issues, but Brewer is the better defender. So edge 2007 I'd give a big edge to Brewer (nothing against Rosario).

PF: Noah in my mind should be compared more to Young. Both are solid defenders, Young has better post moves and Noah rebounds better. I will call this one a push. I'd say big edge to Noah who was also a fantastic passer, a better defender IMO, and could score when called on.

C: The main reason I compare Horford and Murphy is Horford was the jump shooting big on that team. Murphy has more range, but Horford had a nice intermediate jumper and better rebound so Horford gets the edge. I'd say big edge to Horford who was also a fantastic passer and better defender.

Back up big: I will give Yeguete a edge over Richard here. Yeguete is a better rebounder I think and both had similar limited offenses. So edge 2013. Agree, although I'd differ in saying that Richard was a very good offensive player - usually instant offense if they went to him on the block.

Back up guard: Hodge gets an edge over Frazier here because he can play both slots. Maybe that is unfair to this year as Boynton is the backup PG. Still I have it edge 2007. Agree, but Hodge was a very poor substitute at PG; he was a SG all the way. I think Frazier will eventually be a better player.

Back up SF: How did they forget this one. When Brewer needed a quick rest or was in foul trouble, his back up was Werner. So this one is Werner compared to Prather and I view Prather as having the edge due to athleticism and defense. So edge 2013. Agree that Prather has much more impact on this year's team than Werner did on the championship team. And, they were widely different types of players.

Good post, but I added some comments.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by madgator

by the way, Insti....yeguette over richard????? that's straight crazy talk

and I like Yeguette don't get me wrong.

Well here are their numbers for the seasons [part season in the case of Yeguete] in question:

Richard 18.4 min, 6.2 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 0.4 APG, 1.2 TPG, 0.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG
Yeguete 23.4 min, 6.5 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1.7 TPG, 1.2 SPG, 0.3 BPG

or per 40 minutes of playing time

Richard 13.5 PP40, 8.0 RP40, 0.9 AP40, 2.6 TP40, 0.7 SP40, 0.7 BP40
Yeguete 11.1PP40, 11.5 RP40, 2.1 AP40, 2.9 TP40, 2.1 SP40, 0.5 BP40

So Richard scores a bit more but Yeguete has an advantage in rebounds assists and steals. I do not see this as a slam dunk for Richard and I can see a very a solid case for Yeguete.

[austingtr]

IMO Yeguete is better overall. Intangibles are off the charts compared to Rchards

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Well here are their numbers for the seasons [part season in the case of Yeguete] in question:

Richard 18.4 min, 6.2 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 0.4 APG, 1.2 TPG, 0.3 SPG, 0.3 BPG
Yeguete 23.4 min, 6.5 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1.7 TPG, 1.2 SPG, 0.3 BPG

or per 40 minutes of playing time

Richard 13.5 PP40, 8.0 RP40, 0.9 AP40, 2.6 TP40, 0.7 SP40, 0.7 BP40
Yeguete 11.1PP40, 11.5 RP40, 2.1 AP40, 2.9 TP40, 2.1 SP40, 0.5 BP40

So Richard scores a bit more but Yeguete has an advantage in rebounds assists and steals. I do not see this as a slam dunk for Richard and I can see a very a solid case for Yeguete.

I will say one you missed that go in favor or Richard:

He shot close to 70% for the year. He was either close to or the number 1 FG% in the country that year.

That being said your stats opened my eyes. Didn't realize Will was shooting so well this year.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by GatorPlanet

The SEC was VERY strong during both our title seasons. LSU beat #1 Duke to get into the Final Four in 2006. Vandy was a terrible non-traveling-call in the final seconds from beating Georgetown in '07 in the Sweet 16, and Georgetown handled Memphis easily in the Elite Eight. Compare that to this season's SEC, which is flat-out miserable.

I thought that Vandy lost to UConn in the Elite 8 that year... Man, is my memory that bad?

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by SmootyGator

I thought that Vandy lost to UConn in the Elite 8 that year... Man, is my memory that bad?

Yep, my memory is that bad...

[mastoidbone]

This team would lose to both our NC teams---big.
The front court would overwhelm us and Patrick woulf not be able to score on Noah or Horford.
The one tough match up for the 06 and 07 teams would be Murphy stretching them out.

[InstiGATOR1]

A few points:

1. As Humphrey was needed to stretch the defense for his team and thus the difference between he and Boynton is not as great as it would be in a one on one game, similarly Murphy is really needed to stretch the defense by this team and thus the difference between Murphy and Horford is not a much as some would imagine.

2. I looked at but did not report the effective shooting percentages of Richard and Yeguete. Richard was better by about 10 percentage points so not a huge difference. To me the real argument comes down to is Yeguete a much better rebounder because he is quick off the floor and gets to balls or is the a better rebounder than Richard because he plays with such average rebounders? Richard was always on the floor with Noah/Horford and Brewer. That is one excellent rebounder and one good rebounding SF. Yeguete is often on the floor with Murphy/Young and 3 guards. Murphy and Young are not the rebounders that Horford and Noah were, but a good bit of the time Yeguete gets a rebound that would have gone to Murphy or Young but Yeguete got to it more quickly. Would he have gotten such rebounds playing beside Horford and Noah? That is pretty much unknowable.

3. I agree Frazier will likely be a better player than Hodge and would likely be better if we were just comparing Soph season to Soph season..

[REM08]

Its one thing to break down position by position, but do any of you really think that this years team wins close to half the time against 07's team? I don't. If they play 10 times, I don't see this years team winning more than once or twice. I mean, certainly you all must remember how good the back-to-back teams were, right? I LOVE how good this year's team looks. The whole 'sum of the parts' thing is very appealing and fun to watch. But the 07 team's parts were just better - AND they had that sum of the parts thing going also.

Player by player comparisons are imperfect as well - although not without merit altogether. Boynton, overall, is a better player than Lee was. But who would you take if the surrounding players were the rest of the 07's? I'm not sure its so clear.

IMO, and I'm sure you guys followed both teams closer than I did, this years team doesn't have a big man I'd take over Noah or Horford. I don't see these teams as close at all.

Also, I dont' understand the "well lets wait and see if this team wins a title and THEN we can compare..." comments. No, you can compare them now. You certainly can't compare accomplishments yet, but thats not what we're talking about here. The tournament isn't a perfect measure for how good a team is. Most schools have some of their best teams not win a title - and then have lesser teams that do sometimes. Thats just the way the tournament works.

[MJGator8104]

Agree with REM that although not without merit, these player by player comparisons are imperfect; although, I have no problem with the discussion.

Our NC teams fit and played perfectly together. Everyone on those teams (starters and backups) accepted and relished their roles. So far, at least from what I can tell, all of the starters and backups on this year's squad accept and relish their roles as well.

Both squads play/played team D; whoever, I believe this year's squad has taken the team D concept to a higher level with more consistency. By the same token, the NC teams were more consistent offensively.

I believe both of these are more a reflection of the teams as a whole and how they fit and played together.

Just think of the possibilities if you could have a combined squad of the NC starters with their top 2 or three backups with our current starters and their top two or three backups...

[tampajack1]

The 2006/2007 Gator team was, IMO, one of the best college basketball teams ever. The front court of Noah, Horford and Brewer, backed up by Chris Richard and Speights merits consideration as one of the three the greatest front courts ever (along with the Alcindor and Walton front courts). This year's Gator team looks good enough to make a run at the national title in a down year for college hoops.

[madgator]

Chris Richard was an extremely strong post defender. Really they are two different types of players overall. But Richard could get off the floor. He was a good athlete for his size. Kid got picked 41st overall in the NBA draft. Don't see Yeguette as a guy who would get drafted right now.

however, if I had to choose between the two to start for me at a PF position, I would take Richard. Probably because I'd rather have the C capability that he could give you

but that's just me. I can understand the arguement from both sides.

[G8R92]

I'd take the 2013 team if you spot me 30 points.

[grant1]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

This discussion is of course premature. If 2012-13 wins the NCAA tourney or comes close, then we can rank it with 1999-2000, 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Still, I will play along and they did forget one comparison:

PG: I would take Green over Wilbekin mainly for Green's ball handling, but it is closer than anyone would have guessed in November. So edge 2007.

SG: I think Boynton over Humphrey is pretty easy. Humphrey was a a solid defender, but Boynton is an excellent defender. So edge 2013.

SF: Brewer gets the edge over Rosario. Both had/have a little ball security issues, but Brewer is the better defender. So edge 2007

PF: Noah in my mind should be compared more to Young. Both are solid defenders, Young has better post moves and Noah rebounds better. I will call this one a push.

C: The main reason I compare Horford and Murphy is Horford was the jump shooting big on that team. Murphy has more range, but Horford had a nice intermediate jumper and better rebound so Horford gets the edge.

Back up big: I will give Yeguete a edge over Richard here. Yeguete is a better rebounder I think and both had similar limited offenses. So edge 2013.

Back up guard: Hodge gets an edge over Frazier here because he can play both slots. Maybe that is unfair to this year as Boynton is the backup PG. Still I have it edge 2007.

Back up SF: How did they forget this one. When Brewer needed a quick rest or was in foul trouble, his back up was Werner. So this one is Werner compared to Prather and I view Prather as having the edge due to athleticism and defense. So edge 2013.

Agreeable except for the big men. That Horford has an "edge" over Murphy and a "push" between Noah and Young is not close. While Noah didn't have much range, he might have a triple double playing against Young. I would give Horford a big advantage over Murphy. The only aspect Murphy had was his range, which disappeared too often. Horford was much more reliable.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Apeman

Agreed, the breakdown itself is not very well thought out. However, I thought it was interesting that they published an article about that.

"published."

Anyone can write for Bleacher Report. I refuse to click on anything from that site.

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by grant1

Agreeable except for the big men. That Horford has an "edge" over Murphy and a "push" between Noah and Young is not close. While Noah didn't have much range, he might have a triple double playing against Young. I would give Horford a big advantage over Murphy. The only aspect Murphy had was his range, which disappeared too often. Horford was much more reliable.

IMO, the only Gator player since 2007 who would have had a chance to crack the 2007 line up was Beal, and I can't see Beal beating out Humphrey.