Gator Country

scamgtr · 01-23-2013, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I think the opposite may be true. If I read it correctly, the issue is some of the methods used by the NCAA to get information is in question. Essentially they got access to some information from Shapiro's lawsuit that they shouldn't have access to, so that information they obtained may not be admissible. That would potentially weaken their case and help UM.

I just read a summary of what the NCAA did online. I got the gist of what happened now. The NCAA shot itself in the foot here. What a bunch of incompetent boobs.

scamgtr · 01-23-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I would assume that those bankruptcy proceedings may not have taken place before they got the information, in which case, they wouldn't have been public record ... I don't think.

You are right. They were collected during depositions connected with the case. Typically that information is not public record. I should have read the article before commenting because I sounded like an incompetent boob.

iam4uf · 01-23-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampmaster

galen hall giving a few hundred to a star player when UF was already on probation and under the ncaa microscope---maybe one of the dumbest coaching decisions in the history of college sports.

A few hundred? Wasn't it for bus fare home?

atlantagator86 · 01-23-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamgtr

I just read a summary of what the NCAA did online. I got the gist of what happened now. The NCAA shot itself in the foot here. What a bunch of incompetent boobs.

I'm not a legal expert but I suspect that what the NCAA can do now is try to use the information they gained to try to find other evidence that is admissible, so all may not be lost. If they can obtain the same evidence from a different source, and now they know what too look for, I suspect that would then be usable.

BobK89 · 01-23-2013, 04:30 PM

Miami may skate b/c the NCAA sent the Keystone Kops to investigate.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ami-hurricanes

corpgator · 01-23-2013, 04:59 PM

Umm, the NCAA is it's own enforcement body and programs submit willingly to it. How can their evidence gathering be improper if there are no standards in the first place? They are prosecutor, judge, and jury all rolled into one.

This sounds to me like certain people connected to the Miami program used their own political connections to quash the inquiry.

scamgtr · 01-23-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I'm not a legal expert but I suspect that what the NCAA can do now is try to use the information they gained to try to find other evidence that is admissible, so all may not be lost. If they can obtain the same evidence from a different source, and now they know what too look for, I suspect that would then be usable.

That is true and that is what the intent seemed to be. There is a similar doctrine in search and seizure cases called inevitable discovery. Meaning that despite the violation, would the evidence have been uncovered in the normal course of the investigation? I think the same logic will be applied here I don't think the NCAA is going to scuttle the case; but it certainly caused itself an unnecessary headache. The NCAA could help itself immensely in these cases if they just added compliance mechanisms in the charters they sign with member institutions and adding an on-going obligation of student athletes that sign to play at member institutions (e.g. Adding a clause to a letter of intent or whatever document requiring this with the power to sue for not adhering to the "contract" by refusing to cooperate). That would solve the subpoena power issue because it brings it into a court of law and then the people in question can be sworn for depositions.

bperkins10 · 01-24-2013, 09:13 PM

I heard on the radio in St. Louis today that Shapiro's lawyer was employed by the NCAA and that is the real issue (conflict of interest). They believe that Miami is going to walk away scot free from this.

Why do you think that the FSU OC chose to go there?

GatorJeff · 01-24-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bperkins10

I heard on the radio in St. Louis today that Shapiro's lawyer was employed by the NCAA and that is the real issue (conflict of interest). They believe that Miami is going to walk away scot free from this.

Why do you think that the FSU OC chose to go there?

Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Miami committing hundreds on NCAA violations to gain unfair advantage on the opposition (the sole reason for the NCAA rulebook is to prevent that behavior) and getting no penalty, while Penn State breaks no rules at all in the same rulebook and gets crippling penalties because they had a deranged child molester on staff.

gator85jd · 01-24-2013, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam4uf

A few hundred? Wasn't it for bus fare home?

Didn't he have a position coach drive one of the players home to Palatka so the kid could make a child support payment? Didn't make the payment for the kid, just drove him to Palatka so the kid could do it.

rpmGator · 01-25-2013, 07:18 AM

They can't use the portion they got without powers, to use that portion.

They can use the same info from a legal for them, source.

But does it matter, the Canes were heading downhill anyhow due to money issues.

Swampmaster · 01-25-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorgal04

The NCAA members should either give the Enforcement Group subpoena power, .

they are not a law enforcement agency---they can't be granted subpoena power by anyone.

geauxgator1 · 01-25-2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bperkins10

I heard on the radio in St. Louis today that Shapiro's lawyer was employed by the NCAA and that is the real issue (conflict of interest). They believe that Miami is going to walk away scot free from this.

Why do you think that the FSU OC chose to go there?

Time for that lawyer to dust off their E & O policy. If that information is true, I am wondering how dumb can that lawyer be. Getting into a conflict of interest in that case, is not an easy thning to do.

bperkins10 · 01-26-2013, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxgator1

Time for that lawyer to dust off their E & O policy. If that information is true, I am wondering how dumb can that lawyer be. Getting into a conflict of interest in that case, is not an easy thning to do.

The first paragraph in the link below confirms what the guys on the Fast Lane (WXOS - ESPN 101.1) in St. Louis said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col.../?sct=uk_wr_a1

JefffromJax · 01-27-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I'm not a legal expert but I suspect that what the NCAA can do now is try to use the information they gained to try to find other evidence that is admissible, so all may not be lost. If they can obtain the same evidence from a different source, and now they know what too look for, I suspect that would then be usable.

NCAA is a private organization; didn't think they were bound by rules of evidence, etc when going after a school for violations.

atlantagator86 · 01-27-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JefffromJax

NCAA is a private organization; didn't think they were bound by rules of evidence, etc when going after a school for violations.

I don't think it matters what type of organization you are are. Evidence that is not obtained in a legal manner is usually inadmissible in court. Just like if you record somebody without their knowledge, that evidence isn't admissible in most cases.

theologator · 01-27-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I don't think it matters what type of organization you are are. Evidence that is not obtained in a legal manner is usually inadmissible in court. Just like if you record somebody without their knowledge, that evidence isn't admissible in most cases.

Who is going to court? This isn't a legal proceeding. It is discipline imposed by an association upon a member. I suppose Miami could sue the ncaa for using improperly obtained information, but that would create a PR problem for Miami.

theologator · 01-27-2013, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatorgal04

The NCAA members should either give the Enforcement Group subpoena power, or just disband the entire thing. Right now it's worthless. JMO.

They can make it condition of employment and/or membership, can't they? "Member institutions and their athletic and support staff shall cooperate with any ncaa investigation, including affidavits sworn under oath."

Obviously that wouldn't be enforceable against anyone no longer employed by a member school. Lots of companies and institutions require honesty under internal audits, investigations, etc.

GatorLaw · 01-27-2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam4uf

A few hundred? Wasn't it for bus fare home?

IIRC he provided a means for a player to get to a court hearing (child support I think) in Orlando I think it was. I'm not sure if it was ever made clear whether he did this by giving the kid the money to pay for the trip (e.g. cost of bus ticket or gas) or whether he just arranged for someone else to drive him there.

The motto of the university and the NCAA apparently was "let no good deed go unpunished."

theologator · 01-27-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorLaw

IIRC he provided a means for a player to get to a court hearing (child support I think) in Orlando I think it was. I'm not sure if it was ever made clear whether he did this by giving the kid the money to pay for the trip (e.g. cost of bus ticket or gas) or whether he just arranged for someone else to drive him there.

The motto of the university and the NCAA apparently was "let no good deed go unpunished."

Sounds like Galen Hall's unforgivable crime of arranging a ride to Palatka for a kid to make his child support payment.