Comparing 2007 to 2013

[Apeman]

Bleacher Report made an interesting comparison. I still contend that 2007 would beat 2013 handily. They were one of the best teams in the history of college basketball, not just UF.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...m-2007-or-2013

[Jonas]

Damn, I completely disagree with all their comparisons except I'd probably take Rosario over Hodge.

[Apeman]

Originally Posted by Jonas

Damn, I completely disagree with all their comparisons except I'd probably take Rosario over Hodge.

Agreed, the breakdown itself is not very well thought out. However, I thought it was interesting that they published an article about that.

[rserina]

Man was that a terrible analysis. This team definitely has the advantage of 2005-06, but 2006-07 was an absolutely different animal. You can't discount the experience and developed chemistry of that latter team. Their argument would fit better if they were talking about the first national title squad.

[Apeman]

Originally Posted by rserina

Man was that a terrible analysis. This team definitely has the advantage of 2005-06, but 2006-07 was an absolutely different animal. You can't discount the experience and developed chemistry of that latter team. Their argument would fit better if they were talking about the first national title squad.

That's a great point.

[gatormann]

Very true In a lot of ways the 04s really came of age in the NCAA tournament (1st championship) and were a much better team the following season. Rebounding, for example, was an issue for much of the 2005-2006 year but the Gators dominated the boards during their second championship season.

[themistocles]

One thing he noted, which was absolutely TRUE, was that the 2006/07 team, just like the 2005/06 team was precisely 7 deep. Not 8 - Speights and Moss (in 05/06) only came in in times of absolute necessity.

The 2013 team is, when everyone is healthy, is 8 deep - which is a nice advantage. This was the reason that both in 2006 and 2007, toward the end of the SEC Grind, Green was worn out, because although Hodge was a decent player, he was not a true PG, so there was no real substitute for Green. Of course, this year's team lacks a sub for the front guys if Yeguete plays the 3.

It probably was a better comparison between 2005/06 and this team than 2006/07 - However, one thing they had very much in common was injuries/illness. You may recall that Noah played the end of the 06/07 year at perhaps 70%.

The most important similarity, in my opinion, is the fact that both of these teams were very experienced: 2 Seniors & 4 Juniors in 06/07, and 3 Seniors & 4 Juniors this year.

[gatorbogey]

perhaps commonalities are:
defense and
no single main contributor, but we can score inside - in the paint, or on the perimeter.

i'm thinking they are looking at 07 because of similar - top 5 - efficiency ratings via pomeroy.

[gatorbogey]

btw,
gators are #1 in pomeroy

1 Florida SEC 16-2 0.9870 123.5 2 80.9 1

first in defense
2nd in offense

[tgatorstew]

I don't understand why they compared Yuegette to Brewer and Prather to Richard. Should have been the other way around. When looking at the two teams, I would evaluate it like this:
Big man rotation; Horford, Noah, and Richard vs. Young, Murphy, and Yuegette
Advantage: 2007 (Big advantage here for 2007) The versatile play of Noah and Horford is what made this team special. You could not double team them because the would pick you apart, and most teams could not handle them inside. What makes the bigs for 2013 is the dead eye accurate 3 point shooting of Eric Murphy. Young is strong, developing offensively and has been working very hard, but does not have the Basketball IQ or passing ability of Horford or Noah.

Point Guard: Taureen Green vs Scottie Wilbekin- Slight advantage Green, but Wilby has the potential to be the best point guard in UF history. Green controlled the offense with relentless efficiency, and seem to always hit the big shot. Scottie is already one of the great UF perimeter defenders, but has not shown yet to have Taureen's B-ball IQ and goes through stretches where he turns the ball over. Taureen protected the ball and made sure we got the most out of every possession.

Wing players: Corey Brewer & Lee Humphries & Walter Hodge vs. Kenny Boynton & Mike Rosario & Casey Prather & Michael Frazier III- slight advantage 2007. 2013 has more depth but it is hard to compete with Brewer and Humphries. If you take the best qualities of Rosario and combine them with the best qualities of Prather you would get Corey Brewer. Brewer was the elite of the elite, which means he may pop up on many sites for all-decade college basketball teams. Humphries was a 45% 3 point shooter, who made teams pay time after time. Frazier has the making of a more athletic Lee Humphries, but how does he respond in big games. Boynton completes the 2013 team with great defense, timely shooting, leadership and experience.
Where these teams are most similar is:

They share the ball. Just like 2007, you can not point to one or two players and say they have to score for the team to have a chance. They spread the ball around and wherever the weak link is in the defense is what is exposed.

Team defense is very effective. 2013 is the best defensive team in the history of UF Basketball in my opinion. 2007 was better offensively and a better overall team in my opinion but 2013 is a better defensive squad.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by tgatorstew

I don't understand why they compared Yuegette to Brewer and Prather to Richard. Should have been the other way around. When looking at the two teams, I would evaluate it like this:
Big man rotation; Horford, Noah, and Richard vs. Young, Murphy, and Yuegette
Advantage: 2007 (Big advantage here for 2007) The versatile play of Noah and Horford is what made this team special. You could not double team them because the would pick you apart, and most teams could not handle them inside. What makes the bigs for 2013 is the dead eye accurate 3 point shooting of Eric Murphy. Young is strong, developing offensively and has been working very hard, but does not have the Basketball IQ or passing ability of Horford or Noah.

Point Guard: Taureen Green vs Scottie Wilbekin- Slight advantage Green, but Wilby has the potential to be the best point guard in UF history. Green controlled the offense with relentless efficiency, and seem to always hit the big shot. Scottie is already one of the great UF perimeter defenders, but has not shown yet to have Taureen's B-ball IQ and goes through stretches where he turns the ball over. Taureen protected the ball and made sure we got the most out of every possession.

Wing players: Corey Brewer & Lee Humphries & Walter Hodge vs. Kenny Boynton & Mike Rosario & Casey Prather & Michael Frazier III- slight advantage 2007. 2013 has more depth but it is hard to compete with Brewer and Humphries. If you take the best qualities of Rosario and combine them with the best qualities of Prather you would get Corey Brewer. Brewer was the elite of the elite, which means he may pop up on many sites for all-decade college basketball teams. Humphries was a 45% 3 point shooter, who made teams pay time after time. Frazier has the making of a more athletic Lee Humphries, but how does he respond in big games. Boynton completes the 2013 team with great defense, timely shooting, leadership and experience.
Where these teams are most similar is:

They share the ball. Just like 2007, you can not point to one or two players and say they have to score for the team to have a chance. They spread the ball around and wherever the weak link is in the defense is what is exposed.

Team defense is very effective. 2013 is the best defensive team in the history of UF Basketball in my opinion. 2007 was better offensively and a better overall team in my opinion but 2013 is a better defensive squad.

Agree with your comparisons.

The championship teams were great "teams" that were even stronger than the strong parts. But, I believe this year's team takes "the team is stronger than its parts" to an even greater level.

I think the championship teams clearly win if you do a player-by-player comparison, because this year's team just can't compete with the exceptional talent of Noah, Horford, and Brewer. But, the team this year IMO plays waaaaay over its individual talent level, and they're not doing it with any "smoke and mirrors" either. They're doing it with great cohesiveness, focus and intensity.


Both teams had/have a lot of complementary parts.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by rserina

Man was that a terrible analysis. This team definitely has the advantage of 2005-06, but 2006-07 was an absolutely different animal. You can't discount the experience and developed chemistry of that latter team. Their argument would fit better if they were talking about the first national title squad.

2005-6 won the national title in a year where a few other teams could have won had the cards fallen right. 2006-7 was simply the best team in the country with nobody close.
That said, I think this backcourt is probably better. But the 04's front court was clearly far better. All three taken in first nine of the NBA draft. That's a big difference ...

[themistocles]

Excellent points.

All three of these teams played so very well together, and all were outstanding defensively. Two things this team lacks that the 05/07's had were Noah's shot blocking ability (Horford was no slouch either), which really meant that the Guards didn't need to worry so much about making mistakes, and Brewer's amazing ability to steal the ball at key points, just like Humphrey and Green always seemed to make key shots when they were very timely.

You may recall that in the NCAA 2006 tournament, Noah broke Bill Russell's NCAA Tournament shot blocking record. Of course, when Russell did it, they played 4 games, while Noah played in 6. Russell was the best defensive player I have ever seen. He had a simply uncanny ability to always make the correct decision for his team's benefit.

That is one thing this current team does pretty well, is benefit the team as a group. Same was true for both 05/06 and 06/07.

Very interesting discussion.

[InstiGATOR1]

This discussion is of course premature. If 2012-13 wins the NCAA tourney or comes close, then we can rank it with 1999-2000, 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Still, I will play along and they did forget one comparison:

PG: I would take Green over Wilbekin mainly for Green's ball handling, but it is closer than anyone would have guessed in November. So edge 2007.

SG: I think Boynton over Humphrey is pretty easy. Humphrey was a a solid defender, but Boynton is an excellent defender. So edge 2013.

SF: Brewer gets the edge over Rosario. Both had/have a little ball security issues, but Brewer is the better defender. So edge 2007

PF: Noah in my mind should be compared more to Young. Both are solid defenders, Young has better post moves and Noah rebounds better. I will call this one a push.

C: The main reason I compare Horford and Murphy is Horford was the jump shooting big on that team. Murphy has more range, but Horford had a nice intermediate jumper and better rebound so Horford gets the edge.

Back up big: I will give Yeguete a edge over Richard here. Yeguete is a better rebounder I think and both had similar limited offenses. So edge 2013.

Back up guard: Hodge gets an edge over Frazier here because he can play both slots. Maybe that is unfair to this year as Boynton is the backup PG. Still I have it edge 2007.

Back up SF: How did they forget this one. When Brewer needed a quick rest or was in foul trouble, his back up was Werner. So this one is Werner compared to Prather and I view Prather as having the edge due to athleticism and defense. So edge 2013.

[GatorPlanet]

The SEC was VERY strong during both our title seasons. LSU beat #1 Duke to get into the Final Four in 2006. Vandy was a terrible non-traveling-call in the final seconds from beating Georgetown in '07 in the Sweet 16, and Georgetown handled Memphis easily in the Elite Eight. Compare that to this season's SEC, which is flat-out miserable.

[akaGatorhoops]

The 2007 team was one of the greatest college teams I have had the pleasure of watching. I do not think this year's squad would match up evenly.... Nor would many others that I can think of.

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

This discussion is of course premature. If 2012-13 wins the NCAA tourney or comes close, then we can rank it with 1999-2000, 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Still, I will play along and they did forget one comparison:

PG: I would take Green over Wilbekin mainly for Green's ball handling, but it is closer than anyone would have guessed in November. So edge 2007.

SG: I think Boynton over Humphrey is pretty easy. Humphrey was a a solid defender, but Boynton is an excellent defender. So edge 2013.

SF: Brewer gets the edge over Rosario. Both had/have a little ball security issues, but Brewer is the better defender. So edge 2007

PF: Noah in my mind should be compared more to Young. Both are solid defenders, Young has better post moves and Noah rebounds better. I will call this one a push.

C: The main reason I compare Horford and Murphy is Horford was the jump shooting big on that team. Murphy has more range, but Horford had a nice intermediate jumper and better rebound so Horford gets the edge.

Back up big: I will give Yeguete a edge over Richard here. Yeguete is a better rebounder I think and both had similar limited offenses. So edge 2013.

Back up guard: Hodge gets an edge over Frazier here because he can play both slots. Maybe that is unfair to this year as Boynton is the backup PG. Still I have it edge 2007.

Back up SF: How did they forget this one. When Brewer needed a quick rest or was in foul trouble, his back up was Werner. So this one is Werner compared to Prather and I view Prather as having the edge due to athleticism and defense. So edge 2013.

I disagree with a few of yours but its a nice debate. I'm not sure on Boynton over Hump being a slam dunk. If we are looking it overall player on player (or who would win 1 on 1) then yes Boynton in a landslide. But if we are talking about on a team playing the 2 position I'd rather have Hump. The purpose of a 2 is to shoot the ball and Boynton is way streaky for that. Hump was a reliable 46% 3 PT shooter who also was no slouch on D (though not as good as Boynton). Kenny is a good 10% poorer from 3 this year. Now if he reverts to last years 3 pt form it is Kenny hands down.

I also think you are undervaluing Chris Richard. He would have started on just about any other team in basketball. He was an NBA caliber player and what he loses to Yeguete in rebounding, he makes up for in scoring ability.

[Apeman]

Even being able to have this conversation this season leaves me thrilled.

[ApexNC]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

I disagree with a few of yours but its a nice debate. I'm not sure on Boynton over Hump being a slam dunk. If we are looking it overall player on player (or who would win 1 on 1) then yes Boynton in a landslide. But if we are talking about on a team playing the 2 position I'd rather have Hump. The purpose of a 2 is to shoot the ball and Boynton is way streaky for that. Hump was a reliable 46% 3 PT shooter who also was no slouch on D (though not as good as Boynton). Kenny is a good 10% poorer from 3 this year. Now if he reverts to last years 3 pt form it is Kenny hands down.

I also think you are undervaluing Chris Richard. He would have started on just about any other team in basketball. He was an NBA caliber player and what he loses to Yeguete in rebounding, he makes up for in scoring ability.

On the championship teams, Hump was far more valuable then KB would have been. On this year's team, KB is far more valuable than Hump would ever be. The great thing is that both teams had/have very different parts that fit together very well.

[ApexNC]

I'll also say that if I had to come up with a starting five from the pool of all the players on both teams, I go with all five from '07 every time. Love this year's team too, but the '07 team was historical good.