Look for your health insurance premiums to sky rocket

[manigordo]

Originally Posted by jimgata

Question for the left- If the fraud and waste and poor patient treatment in the health care system is so rampant, why the hell hasn't Obama done something about it in the 4 years he has been pres.? The only thing he has done is blast reps , passed a horrendous health care bill, that won't go into full force for another year and of course blame Bush.
Did we really have to pass a bill to save his claim of 600 billion in waste and fraud? What a joke.

This is a great question. But you will not like the real answer. Obama is a corporatist first. He explained that we HAVE TO use the system we have got. He was afraid to do what they did in Europe because the Right would have destroyed him. So he went with corporate America and paid them off. Obamacare is packaged corporate handout. It sucks for most who are "on the left." It is too expensive because it does not fundamentally change the system.

FACTS: In the US, life expectancy is around 77 with avg costs pp of just under $6k. In Japan, over 81, costs around $2.5; Germany, just over 78, costs $3k; Switzerland, 79, costs$3.7k.
NOONE pays as much as we and almost every industrial nation has a longer lifespan except Denmark and Portugal. It is the way the "free market does healthcare." I know that is not the mantra, but it is right in front of the eyes of the blind.

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

since you are not in the healthcare field shab-I doubt you are qualified to make the above statement about their treatment

I was in the health insurance/employee benefits field for a decade and now I do work in healthcare (pharmacy).

I saw the looks on the employees faces once for each of those 10 years when I had to tell them how much more their checks were being docked for health coverage and how much more they would have to pay out of pocket for care all at the same time.

Not fun.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by manigordo

This is a great question. But you will not like the real answer. Obama is a corporatist first. He explained that we HAVE TO use the system we have got. He was afraid to do what they did in Europe because the Right would have destroyed him. So he went with corporate America and paid them off. Obamacare is packaged corporate handout. It sucks for most who are "on the left." It is too expensive because it does not fundamentally change the system.

FACTS: In the US, life expectancy is around 77 with avg costs pp of just under $6k. In Japan, over 81, costs around $2.5; Germany, just over 78, costs $3k; Switzerland, 79, costs$3.7k.
NOONE pays as much as we and almost every industrial nation has a longer lifespan except Denmark and Portugal. It is the way the "free market does healthcare." I know that is not the mantra, but it is right in front of the eyes of the blind.

I don't know anything about the site but it should get the point accross wrt the ridiculous life expectancy argument for who provides the best healthcare. And this is just ONE variable of many that make using that comparrison ridiculous....

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

[jimgata]

The question remains, in 2008 Obama said he will save 600 billion in health costs wastes, why the hell has he not already done it?

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

I was in the health insurance/employee benefits field for a decade and now I do work in healthcare (pharmacy).

I saw the looks on the employees faces once for each of those 10 years when I had to tell them how much more their checks were being docked for health coverage and how much more they would have to pay out of pocket for care all at the same time.

Not fun.

Have you any United Auto Worker or Government retirees that will accept a generic as opposed to the name brand? A friend (Pharmacist) claims he's never had one as the co-pay for the name brand is only slightly higher than generic (free) even though the cost to the insurer or health plan is astronomically higher. He hasn't been able to convince the customer that it is the same drug....cause they ain't paying. But someone is!

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

Truth

+1

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

I was in the health insurance/employee benefits field for a decade and now I do work in healthcare (pharmacy).

I saw the looks on the employees faces once for each of those 10 years when I had to tell them how much more their checks were being docked for health coverage and how much more they would have to pay out of pocket for care all at the same time.

Not fun.

and why is that our responsibility to pay for them?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by manigordo

This is a great question. But you will not like the real answer. Obama is a corporatist first. He explained that we HAVE TO use the system we have got. He was afraid to do what they did in Europe because the Right would have destroyed him. So he went with corporate America and paid them off. Obamacare is packaged corporate handout. It sucks for most who are "on the left." It is too expensive because it does not fundamentally change the system.

FACTS: In the US, life expectancy is around 77 with avg costs pp of just under $6k. In Japan, over 81, costs around $2.5; Germany, just over 78, costs $3k; Switzerland, 79, costs$3.7k.
NOONE pays as much as we and almost every industrial nation has a longer lifespan except Denmark and Portugal. It is the way the "free market does healthcare." I know that is not the mantra, but it is right in front of the eyes of the blind.

One of the reasons we spend more on healthcare than any other peer country is that Americans are probably more obsessed with health and longevity than any people on the planet. Notwithstanding all our worry, we're living longer and healthier than ever.

We are not "living sicker, longer." Rather, we are a nation of the "worried well."

[jimgata]

The employer offers these benefits as part of the employees wage package. Is the employer responsible to keep increasing his cost for health insurance or should the employee be responsible for increasing costs? There is a limit as to what an employer can pay . Once he reaches that limit, he has to accept other alternatives, fire some employees and not hire new ones.
There is a basic concept of business, if a business cannot generate enough income to pay his employees and make a living for himself, he will go out of business or some will be fired. This seems to be hard for the left to understand.
The same should hold true for government, if it doesn't generate enough income to support all programs, some will have to be reduced or eliminated.

[108]

Bill, couldn't you make this same post every year gone by?

"Look for your insurance premiums to go up"

Public, Private, they are so intertwined, does it matter?

How about our elected officials look to actually reduce the cost of health care, instead of being beholden to the big money

Don't kid yourself if you think any Republican/Conservative would have put forth a bill that actually took out of the pockets of big money

It pays much better to keep people sick

[ThePlayer]

Originally Posted by 108

Bill, couldn't you make this same post every year gone by?

"Look for your insurance premiums to go up"

Public, Private, they are so intertwined, does it matter?

How about our elected officials look to actually reduce the cost of health care, instead of being beholden to the big money

Don't kid yourself if you think any Republican/Conservative would have put forth a bill that actually took out of the pockets of big money

It pays much better to keep people sick

Republicans and Big Money want people to be sick?
I hope Obamacare also helps the delusional for your sake.
The ACA was sold to the public as a way to lower costs...but sadly does everything but that.

[AzCatFan]

Originally Posted by malligator

Oh, sure. My premiums go up annually a percent or two just like the cost of everything else. This year they went up 53%. Same policy...only 53% more expensive.

Not sure what policy you had in the past, but if health insurance kept pace with inflation, Obamacare probably wouldn't have passed. Here's a good article stating healthcare costs had doubled in the ten years prior to Obama taking office.

Here's a good chart showing the problem 1999 - 2012. Please notice, the rise in health insurance costs have not grown exponentially since Obama took office and Obamacare policies enacted. In fact, growth has been rather steady for 13 years.



Truth is, healthcare costs have outpaced inflation since Reagan was in office, which is why we needed a fix to begin with. Obamacare may or may not make things better, but that's a different argument. But as the chart shows, so far, Obamacare has had little effect on rising healthcare insurance costs. If in another decade, the rise is still on the same trajectory or worse, growing faster, then we'll know Obamacare to be a bad solution. If rises in costs slow down, different story. But to claim Obamacare is the cause of rising costs that have been on the same level for years before Obamacare ever became part of our lexicon is disingenuous.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by AzCatFan

Not sure what policy you had in the past, but if health insurance kept pace with inflation, Obamacare probably wouldn't have passed. Here's a good article stating healthcare costs had doubled in the ten years prior to Obama taking office.

Here's a good chart showing the problem 1999 - 2012. Please notice, the rise in health insurance costs have not grown exponentially since Obama took office and Obamacare policies enacted. In fact, growth has been rather steady for 13 years.



Truth is, healthcare costs have outpaced inflation since Reagan was in office, which is why we needed a fix to begin with. Obamacare may or may not make things better, but that's a different argument. But as the chart shows, so far, Obamacare has had little effect on rising healthcare insurance costs. If in another decade, the rise is still on the same trajectory or worse, growing faster, then we'll know Obamacare to be a bad solution. If rises in costs slow down, different story. But to claim Obamacare is the cause of rising costs that have been on the same level for years before Obamacare ever became part of our lexicon is disingenuous.

Nice chart. My premiums still went up 53% out of the blue in, this, the first year of Obamacare rollouts. Coincidence? Could be. All I know is it went up 53% and that sucks.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

Yeah, because there hadn't been ANY increases over the last decade in premiums, co-pays or deductibles. Also, we haven't been treating the uninsured in the most cost inefficient way possible.

Oh, wait...

So to lower HC costs, first tack on an extra 3.8% increase to Med device makers.

Clear econ principle, make something cost more so it lowers the cost. Got it.

Unless you want A) Companies to stop making it(so you don't have to pay for it) or B) Make it cost more here so companies overseas, ie China can make even cheaper. Which is it?

[g8orbill]

108-like most liberals you think the only answer is the guvment

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

One of the reasons we spend more on healthcare than any other peer country is that Americans are probably more obsessed with health and longevity than any people on the planet. Notwithstanding all our worry, we're living longer and healthier than ever.

We are not "living sicker, longer." Rather, we are a nation of the "worried well."

Exactly. Our life expectancy speaks to how good our healthCare is...