How can Conservatives, especially Middle/Upper Class Whites, still love this country?

[ncgatr1]

I think the point is missed, the demographics have now shifted and will never be in the favor of the white upper middle class to wealthy again. These are the people whom will become less giving in the future. It's only common sense. I'm starting to see it with my friends and I know this is not a flash in the pan attitude. People now realize the less fortunate and entitlement holders have the upper hand and it's not going to change. This is the major difference from Bush's second term. I myself have become more callous to the needs of others and I used to do a lot for people but I'm not giving my money, time and effort away anymore to those who want to take it from my family because they don't want to work and pump out babies. This is the attitude I'm now seeing.

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

You should leave. Take 5 people along that think like you do.

I'm glad Obama's second term brings you the same pain that Bush's second term brought me.

I didn't want to live in Bush's America, either. But I knew better days would be ahead.

Why are better days ahead. Our debt is astronomically higher. Less people employed than in 2007. Household incomes down 5,000 per on average. Obamacare causing health care insurance rates to balloon. Why will it be better with goober in charge of anything?

As an example...see below.

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Fewer than four-in-10 Americans (39 percent) rate the US in a positive manner – the most negative feedback the country has produced since 1979.

A new Gallup poll finds that Americans are as negative about the country’s prospects as they have been in more than three decades. Americans are more upbeat in their predictions of where the U.S. will be in five years (48 percent positive), but this is the lowest rating since an August 1979 Gallup poll was conducted.

[GatorNorth]

Originally Posted by dadx4

No, this is not true. Romney wasn't a conservative either. I remember downtown Atlanta growing up, the underground. Dueling pianos, great restaurants, really upscale chothing stores, etc. Have any of you been to the Atlanta underground lately? This is what's happening to our country.

I work in downtown Atlanta every day. Downtowns largely failed in the US because of white flight when its workers abandoned intown living for the promise of a 3BR house with the 2 car garage on an acre of land and picket fence, swim and tennis club and a better school system closer to work because someones company left downtown for an office building in Dunwoody.

Without that there is no real void to be filled and downtowns might have survived. Downtowns, especially Atlanta's, weren't abandoned by people first but by evacuating corporate sponsorship and a decreasing sense of civic pride. Eastern, Delta Arthur Andersen, all the big law firms. Gone for good or to suburban campuses or shiny new high rises in midtown, which is what downtown used to be without the department store.

Have you been to Old 4th Ward lately? Or Inman Park? Fabulous urban renewal driven by people not jobs or companies

You need to tell the whole story, not just the part that fits your politics.

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

Why are better days ahead. Our debt is astronomically higher. Less people employed than in 2007. Household incomes down 5,000 per on average. Obamacare causing health care insurance rates to balloon. Why will it be better with goober in charge of anything?

As an example...see below.

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Fewer than four-in-10 Americans (39 percent) rate the US in a positive manner – the most negative feedback the country has produced since 1979.

A new Gallup poll finds that Americans are as negative about the country’s prospects as they have been in more than three decades. Americans are more upbeat in their predictions of where the U.S. will be in five years (48 percent positive), but this is the lowest rating since an August 1979 Gallup poll was conducted.

Yep. Bush really did ruin things.

[enviroGator]

Originally Posted by 108

nobody hates you....get out of your head

This!

[enviroGator]

Originally Posted by bluelang

I'm a white middle-class middle-aged dude with a wife, three kids, a dog, a big-ass truck, and a boat who has no college degree and pays about a combined 35% effective - not marginal, effective - that's the 60% marginal rate if you're wondering - tax rate on my income and I ****ing LOVE America. I love every ****ing inch of it and I love every ****ing person in it. I love my freedoms and I love my opportunity and I love that I have an excellent chance of dying a rich fat **** who came from the sticks and left his kids a fortune. I love every state and I love every highway, and I love every mountain and every beach. I love all the myopic, navel-gazing racists who make the internet such an entertaining place.

Rep my man. I'm right there with you!

[108]

Originally Posted by dadx4

No, this is not true. Romney wasn't a conservative either. I remember downtown Atlanta growing up, the underground. Dueling pianos, great restaurants, really upscale chothing stores, etc. Have any of you been to the Atlanta underground lately? This is what's happening to our country.

too many colored folks for you?

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

Yep. Bush really did ruin things.

On the autopsy report of America, 60 million people actually belieiving those six words should be listed as COD.

[108]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

Why are better days ahead. Our debt is astronomically higher. Less people employed than in 2007. Household incomes down 5,000 per on average. Obamacare causing health care insurance rates to balloon. Why will it be better with goober in charge of anything?

As an example...see below.

WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Fewer than four-in-10 Americans (39 percent) rate the US in a positive manner – the most negative feedback the country has produced since 1979.

A new Gallup poll finds that Americans are as negative about the country’s prospects as they have been in more than three decades. Americans are more upbeat in their predictions of where the U.S. will be in five years (48 percent positive), but this is the lowest rating since an August 1979 Gallup poll was conducted.

yes, we went through a massive recession, that btw, wasn't because of the "moochers" class that you all speak of

we have a health care bill that generally keeps the status quo in place because our elected officials are beholden to big money...even though our health care costs are eating us up....yet we see above to the north and across the pond, that there are systems in place that reduce costs and get better outcomes....but no, we can't aim towards that, because we have to have our pretend "free-market" (crony monopolistic) system

you guys bitch and moan about those who feel entitled, yet there are older white males behind most of today's current problems...one's who feel entitled to loot our country's wealth at all costs and the puppets they elect to help them

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by 108

yes, we went through a massive recession, that btw, wasn't because of the "moochers" class that you all speak of

we have a health care bill that generally keeps the status quo in place because our elected officials are beholden to big money...even though our health care costs are eating us up....yet we see above to the north and across the pond, that there are systems in place that reduce costs and get better outcomes....but no, we can't aim towards that, because we have to have our pretend "free-market" (crony monopolistic) system

you guys bitch and moan about those who feel entitled, yet there are older white males behind most of today's current problems...one's who feel entitled to loot our country's wealth at all costs and the puppets they elect to help them

108, you don't believe what you just wrote about our health care situation do you? If so, who is paying for your health insurance...ask them about costs. And your comment re England or Canadian Health Care and outcomes is absurd. Outcomes are nowhere near ours and it is well documented that Canadians with resources in need of imediate care come to the US. And in England, there is the "public" system for the masses and the "private pay" for those with the resources.

And no kidding re white males being behind most of our nation's problems/issues. Obama is doubling down but who is counting....certainly not the media. We are looking for solutions from his administration. Continuing to blame Bush for a housing crisis and financial collapse that was 15 years in the making spanning both Clinton and Bush years is not solving the issue of employment and economic growth needed to lift this big boat out of the mess. Obama's policies are inhibiting all but the growth of the food stamp rolls.

[108]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

108, you don't believe what you just wrote about our health care situation do you? If so, who is paying for your health insurance...ask them about costs. And your comment re England or Canadian Health Care and outcomes is absurd. Outcomes are nowhere near ours and it is well documented that Canadians with resources in need of imediate care come to the US. And in England, there is the "public" system for the masses and the "private pay" for those with the resources.

And no kidding re white males being behind most of our nation's problems/issues. Obama is doubling down but who is counting....certainly not the media. We are looking for solutions from his administration. Continuing to blame Bush for a housing crisis and financial collapse that was 15 years in the making spanning both Clinton and Bush years is not solving the issue of employment and economic growth needed to lift this big boat out of the mess. Obama's policies are inhibiting all but the growth of the food stamp rolls.

you are living in a fairytale if you think our health care system is the best in the world

[gatordowneast]

108, should you be diagnosed with cancer, heart disease, need an organ transplant or need treatment for any catastrophic disease, I would suggest you visit one of the countries you think is better. I will trust my family's health to the best trained physicians and health care professionals in the world...OURS.

Cheaper does not mean better. Docs flock to the US for their training.

[OaktownGator]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

You should leave. Take 5 people along that think like you do.

I'm glad Obama's second term brings you the same pain that Bush's second term brought me.

I didn't want to live in Bush's America, either. But I knew better days would be ahead.

If you believe that, you're almost as deluded as the OP... Obama's presidency is very little different from GW's from a policy perspective. Different rhetoric, but overwhelmingly the same actions.

Anyone who thinks their lives would be substantively different if the other guy was in office has been smoking too much of the partisan stash.

[exiledgator]

Originally Posted by GatorNorth

I work in downtown Atlanta every day. Downtowns largely failed in the US because of white flight when its workers abandoned intown living for the promise of a 3BR house with the 2 car garage on an acre of land and picket fence, swim and tennis club and a better school system closer to work because someones company left downtown for an office building in Dunwoody.

Without that there is no real void to be filled and downtowns might have survived. Downtowns, especially Atlanta's, weren't abandoned by people first but by evacuating corporate sponsorship and a decreasing sense of civic pride. Eastern, Delta Arthur Andersen, all the big law firms. Gone for good or to suburban campuses or shiny new high rises in midtown, which is what downtown used to be without the department store.

Have you been to Old 4th Ward lately? Or Inman Park? Fabulous urban renewal driven by people not jobs or companies

You need to tell the whole story, not just the part that fits your politics.

Any woes we are experiencing are far more complex than many are willing to accept, and this is just of a myriad of issues. Euclidean (single-use) zoning helped kill many urban areas and helped promote the suburban overgrowth that's currently dragging behind our economy like a huge anchor.

Some cities are revisiting their 20th Century zoning and embracing, multi-use urban zoning and the younger generation loves it. Much of our youth doesn't want to spend 1.5 hours a day commuting. They don't want "McWorld" (the box store zone just outside the city). They want to walk to work and store and entertainment. This, IMO, is a good thing as our population continues to expand.

/end tangent.

[gator7_5]

Originally Posted by ncgatr1

I commented in another thread about this. It's not just conservatives, it is the centrists too. Most of my affluent friends, and yes, they are job providers, really think the balance of power has no shifted and will remain with thecDems from here out. It because the entitlement sector, which includes the elderly, minorities, and Latinos, now control the path of this Country under the direction of the academia, elitists, and media. There is less a concern for the well being of the less fortunate and more of a self centered attitude emerging from this class in the protection and caring of their own family. This growing callousness and less giving is going to hurt the less fortunate in this Country. The upper middle class and the wealthy will eventually stop caring and concentrate on isolating their, assests and family from any class which is considered less fortunate. This includes charitable contributions. I know people who have basically thrown in the towel. Some say this will open opportunities for the less fortunate with the voids that will be created, and this may be correct, but it will take many years If not decades to fill these voids. There are still places to go in this Country get away from all the moochers.

This is a really solid post. This class warfare created from the top has worn me out. I used to be a pretty compasionate individual I think. Not anymore. It's every man for himself now. All I care about is me and my family. Basically everyone I know who is successful is circling the wagons now. I guess that's what our leaders want. I'm not sure why.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by CalSFGator

These obscure martyr complexes on the right are very creepy, and usually a pretty obvious form of projection. What I can tell from this post is that the OP hates a lot of things, liberals chief among them.

No different than the "war on women", Romney "hates poor people", Pubs "hate gays" complex as propagated by the left.

[GatorNorth]

Originally Posted by exiledgator

Any woes we are experiencing are far more complex than many are willing to accept, and this is just of a myriad of issues. Euclidean (single-use) zoning helped kill many urban areas and helped promote the suburban overgrowth that's currently dragging behind our economy like a huge anchor.

Some cities are revisiting their 20th Century zoning and embracing, multi-use urban zoning and the younger generation loves it. Much of our youth doesn't want to spend 1.5 hours a day commuting. They don't want "McWorld" (the box store zone just outside the city). They want to walk to work and store and entertainment. This, IMO, is a good thing as our population continues to expand.

/end tangent.

I agree with you completely. Gen Y'ers love authenticity not suburbia. They want cell phones not land lines. Apartments not tract homes. And many want cohabitation and going out in groups not marriage. And they now comprise the largest portion of the work force, so this is not merely faddish.

Unfortunately billions of dollars of suburban residential real estate will ultimately be the illiquid or slow growth victim of this demographic change, so albeit a good thing it's not without a price to the prior generation.

[CalSFGator]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

No different than the "war on women", Romney "hates poor people", Pubs "hate gays" complex as propagated by the left.

I would generally agree with you, except it's not quite as much the overstatement (the "war on women" is, as that is an idiotic phrase). Whereas the Pub party actually caters these days to a political subsector that includes righties carrying God Hates Fags signs, and panders to religious leaders, such as Fallwell, Dobson, Robertson, etc., that clearly do hate gays. Romney clearly doesn't hate poor people, he just can't understand them, as his statements have made pretty clear, and the war on women is a crude overstatement of the Pub's decision not to court the swing female vote, at least from a policy point of view.

On the other hand, the left and centrist democrats like Obama, clearly love white males. If you ask Jersey all the corruption in the world comes from overpaid fat white lawyers. The democratic party in Congress is still vastly majority older white males, all those LA douches the right hates are loaded with self-satisfied white males. Obama is a wild corporatist that has been very good to Wall Street, made up, lest you haven't noticed, primarily of white males.

So, you have a point on the hyperbole, the difference is at least the ones you pointed out are tied to at least a shred of reality.

[Dreamliner]

Love it or leave it!

[108]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

108, should you be diagnosed with cancer, heart disease, need an organ transplant or need treatment for any catastrophic disease, I would suggest you visit one of the countries you think is better. I will trust my family's health to the best trained physicians and health care professionals in the world...OURS.

Cheaper does not mean better. Docs flock to the US for their training.

so lets just pretend America has the best healthcare in the world for the most amount of people....how do we realistically reduce the cost

and don't just start and end with tort reform...