Gun Appreciation and Advice Thread

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Oh, I'm not purchasing anything until after I have done at the very least basic gun instruction, defensive training, etc -- every place seems to have their own curriculum they offer, obviously. In fact, if anyone knows a range with good instruction and ideally gun rental so I can try several options, in the Jacksonville area, I'd be all for it.

My position on the automatic is that I know I do want one, and therefore may buy one, but walk-before-we-run, and it would probably stay in its box, in a safe, until I've put several hundred rounds through it, as much as possible of which under instruction. I mean, the only point of this would be if myself and others would be safer for me having a gun, not in more danger.

As for a revolver, I have actually shot a .38 a few times before, but it's been years. That's the sort of thing I know I could refamiliarize myself with in fairly short order and rely on or even carry pretty quickly.

In a perfect world, I'd like to buy two guns, a revolver and an automatic, both suitable for personal/home defense and reasonably concealable for a big guy. The trick would be finding suitable quality and be out the door with both for $1000-$1200.

Good plan, but also having a longer ranged weapon like a 12 ga shotgun or a rifle (various calibers), gives you options, depending on where you live. I think everyone should own a shotgun for sheer stopping power.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Disadvantage: compact frame. MichiGator has large hands.

Easily solved.

Many SA's today have extended clip attachments for just this situation. My LC-9 has an extention for extra gripping surface.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by gator7_5

You'd be in the minority. Brain is absolutely correct. I plink with .38's. I wouldn't use them for home defense, and most knowledgable shooter wouldn't.

.357 all the way.

Who's minority? Your's? lol

And I didn't say I used .38 rounds for home defense. You just read that into my post. I use 357 JHP's for home defense.

Btw, you go tell the many (and I mean MANY) law enforcement and former military people I know who own 357's and use .38 special rounds on the gun range they're "not knowledgeable about shooting". You'd walk away feeling like a fool.

Btw, a .38 cal. isn't that far off from a 357 in stopping power, it just depends upon the type of ammunition you apply in each scenario to get the best results. Any knowledgeable shooter would know this.

[gator7_5]

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

Who's minority? Your's? lol

And I didn't say I used .38 rounds for home defense. You just read that into my post. I use 357 JHP's for home defense.

Btw, you go tell the many (and I mean MANY) law enforcement and former military people I know who own 357's and use .38 special rounds on the gun range they're "not knowledgeable about shooting". You'd walk away feeling like a fool.

Gray, re-read my post, and re-read Brain's as well. You're all over the place. You made a point to disagree with him, when he is absolutely correct. And I clearly made a point to say .38sp is what what I shoot through my .357 most often at the range.

Ad speaking relatively, the .38 is far off from a .357 as far as stopping power goes. You're friends with ALOT of officers, apparently. Do any of them carry .38's? Probably not. .40, 9mm, and .357 is the lilely answer.

That being said. Shot placement and practice counts more than any caliber.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by Row6

Thanks for the warning.

Thanks for the board spam.

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

Easily solved.

Many SA's today have extended clip attachments for just this situation. My LC-9 has an extention for extra gripping surface.

Oddly enough, an LC-9 was one of the exact guns I was scrutinizing (online, the dimensions and pictures with a reference object) when it started to occur to me that this whole hand size thing might be an issue in choosing a weapon designed for concealed carry. I had the same concern looking at revolvers like the S&W Model 642 or the LC-R. My instinct is against wanting to depend on an extended magazine to obtain a comfortable grip on a semiautomatic (which, I should point out, I have held/dry-fired before, just not used as I have a revolver). Not sure where that leaves me on concealed carry -- the revolvers that look like they'd fit are like K-frames or semiautomatics of an intermediate size like the Glock 19.

I'm just sort of throwing internal monologue about this at you guys until I get a chance to go to an actual gunstore, but I appreciate the guidance so far.

[TnCamoGator]

I own a S&W .32 revolver that's about 50-60 years old and still operates just fine. I recommend revolvers simply because they are very easy to clean and maintain, easy to shoot for anyone especially good in case you are in a bad situation. They also fail a lot less than semi-autos and don't jam like some semi's do.

The drawbacks of revolvers are not being as fast as semi-autos, and not having a complete safety. If you don't feel comfortable letting down the hammer manually in a situation you can't shoot then don't get one because you need to be confident in yourself to not let it slip and accidentally fire.

It's all about what your capable of handling.

[rpmGator]

Our military went from .38's to the .45 due to lessons learned in war. Guys were getting killed after they shot someone as it wounded too many that kept fighting back.

The 9mm isn't much better than the 38 on stopping power.

Go with a .357 and use the .38's for practice. Or if you go auto, at least a .40 cal. It has better stopping power than smaller rounds, and more rounds than the .45. Most of the cops around here go .40 due to those dual reasons.

But its hard to beat a shotgun inside a home. I don't use OO buckshot, fewer pellets and it iimits the spead and causes a lot of damage to your own home.

#2's or even 4's give you a lot more pellets and spread the shot out a bit more. At those ranges, it works fine.

Best advice is to get a .22 like the more powerful weapon you are going to use. Auto or revolver and shoot it often as it is much cheaper and safer to learn the way they work, and you can move up size without much change in your shooting style.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Honestly, I would wait for the current insanity to die down unless you desperately need one right now or are getting a really good price.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Yeah I can't even imagine what buckshot would be like inside a house. At the same time, it's a guaranteed way of hitting someone when you're jarred awake at 3 a.m.

[Row6]

For home defense get a pump shotgun. Hopefully the sound of the pump gets the intruder jumping out of a window before you have to use it. Also, you don't have to be a very good shot.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Yeah I can't even imagine what buckshot would be like inside a house. At the same time, it's a guaranteed way of hitting someone when you're jarred awake at 3 a.m.

I keep turkey loads beside my 12 gauge in my bedroom. I think those would do the trick and still provide safety.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Row6

For home defense get a pump shotgun. Hopefully the sound of the pump gets the intruder jumping out of a window before you have to use it. Also, you don't have to be a very good shot.

Never pick up a gun unless you intend to use it. I'd rather have the tool that will absolutely get the job done than one that I can hope will scare someone into avoiding it.

[rpmGator]

Alerting an armed intruder, is not the best way. You give up your only advantage.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by gator7_5

Gray, re-read my post, and re-read Brain's as well. You're all over the place. You made a point to disagree with him, when he is absolutely correct. And I clearly made a point to say .38sp is what what I shoot through my .357 most often at the range.

Ad speaking relatively, the .38 is far off from a .357 as far as stopping power goes. You're friends with ALOT of officers, apparently. Do any of them carry .38's? Probably not. .40, 9mm, and .357 is the lilely answer.

That being said. Shot placement and practice counts more than any caliber.

Sorry bud, but you sort of stepped in it so I nailed you with a little good elbow ribbin'.

No harm intended of course.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by rpmGator

Alerting an armed intruder, is not the best way. You give up your only advantage.

False, odds are you've just demonstrated that the intruder is seriously outgunned. And by giving him the opportunity to flee, you've probably just saved yourself several thousand dollars in attorneys fees, and that's assuming that you aren't charged. DGUs rarely involve the discharge of a firearm, and you can rack the gun as a deterrent (and as a preparation to fire, since no shotgun should be kept cocked and locked) before a confrontation occurs. Let it also be said that the racking sound accompanied by shouted orders for the intruder to leave the house immediately should be the only warning. After that shoot to kill. Do not use less lethal ammo either.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

There is absolutely no way I'm giving a verbal warning if someone is in my house. Legal fees would be the absolute least of my concerns.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

There is absolutely no way I'm giving a verbal warning if someone is in my house. Legal fees would be the absolute least of my concerns.

So you have your family under your protection in your bedroom, you are going to take your shotgun and leave your family behind and sneak out ninja style into harms way so you can cap the burglars like SEAL team 6? If so you have extraordinarily bad judgment, especially when you can just yell out "I have a shotgun, I've just called the police, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY HOUSE WHILE YOU STILL CAN!" I'd bet that racking the gun after that statement would resolve the problem 95% of the time. And if it didn't, I'm sure you'd take some of them with you.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

There is obviously an accounting job to be done before making that move, none of which involves announcing myself to the intruder only to be shot right in the face.

This was a lesson imposed on me when I took shooting lessons years ago.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by rpmGator

Our military went from .38's to the .45 due to lessons learned in war. Guys were getting killed after they shot someone as it wounded too many that kept fighting back.

The 9mm isn't much better than the 38 on stopping power.

Go with a .357 and use the .38's for practice. Or if you go auto, at least a .40 cal. It has better stopping power than smaller rounds, and more rounds than the .45. Most of the cops around here go .40 due to those dual reasons.

But its hard to beat a shotgun inside a home. I don't use OO buckshot, fewer pellets and it iimits the spead and causes a lot of damage to your own home.

#2's or even 4's give you a lot more pellets and spread the shot out a bit more. At those ranges, it works fine.

Best advice is to get a .22 like the more powerful weapon you are going to use. Auto or revolver and shoot it often as it is much cheaper and safer to learn the way they work, and you can move up size without much change in your shooting style.

45's stopping power is about equal to a 357's when you use the right ammo. I have a regent 1911 45 cal. and love the platform. 1911's and Baretta M9/2's are some of the nicest hand-held pistol platforms I've ever fired. That, of course, is with a bit of a larger hand surface.

I use a special HP round (pretty expensive home defense round) for the house, but usually, when you're using full matal jackets with a 45, you will fire right through the target and sometimes, they'll still be ableto fire back before they go down.

JHP's for max tissue damage are best for qucik, personal defense on most any caliber.

What I've found is that most "larger" calibers ranging from .40 on up will completely pneetrate a human target and tend to hit another behind it when you're using full metal jackets. Use JHP's which tend to expand and grab more tissue interbally and not penetrate all the way through when you're using .40 on up.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Thanks for the board spam.



Oddly enough, an LC-9 was one of the exact guns I was scrutinizing (online, the dimensions and pictures with a reference object) when it started to occur to me that this whole hand size thing might be an issue in choosing a weapon designed for concealed carry. I had the same concern looking at revolvers like the S&W Model 642 or the LC-R. My instinct is against wanting to depend on an extended magazine to obtain a comfortable grip on a semiautomatic (which, I should point out, I have held/dry-fired before, just not used as I have a revolver). Not sure where that leaves me on concealed carry -- the revolvers that look like they'd fit are like K-frames or semiautomatics of an intermediate size like the Glock 19.

I'm just sort of throwing internal monologue about this at you guys until I get a chance to go to an actual gunstore, but I appreciate the guidance so far.

Interesting stuff, but just to let you is on a little manufacturing secret... S&W, as very well a machined product as their firearms are, you can also buy a number of the Taurus calibers and variants of r slide and cylinder action pistols and get the same quality as they are biult from the same S&W machining molds.

Taurus revolvers and slide/actions (and Rossi brand as a matter of fact), are all buiult from the same S&W machine molds and are fine hand weapons.

I would buy a Taurus make just as soon as buying a Ruger or S&W, but I prefer Ruger, who I honestly believe makes a better .357 platform than S&W, especially in the GP100 series.

Ruger is one of the top of the libne pistol and rifle makers in the business today IMO.

LC-9's are excellent compact conceal carr7y and I love to carry mine all the time, mostly in an ankle holster. It has the extended finger magazine finger grip, and it is just about 6 total inches in length and weighs in at about 23 ounces loded with a 7 + 1 magazine. I also have the Crimson Trace laser package on it it and bought the entire pistol and laser for right at $500. Excellent deal and quality.

Btw, a laser is superb for home defense. In the dark with an intruder in the house, you don;t have to worry about using the sights to aim, you can just put the laser on the target and usually hit within 1 - 2 inches of the intended target. If you sight an inturder, put the laser in the middle of their chest in-between the pockets and pull the trigger, and it'll only take one 9mm JHP and they're down for the count.