Coach Meyer on Tim Tebow

[Speedofsand]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

Plus, last year Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% and a QB rating of 72.9. No team is going to build their offense around a QB with a sub-50% completion percentage and QB rating that low.

And then fast forward to this year, the Broncos bring in Manning and go 13-3, the best record in the AFC, with largely the same team. Do any of you seriously think Elway made a mistake not building his team around Tebow?!?!

I believe the Denver improvement last year shows not so much how good Tebow is but how horrible Orton was.

Look up Mike Vick's career completion % numbers by year and get back to me about staying with a QB in an offense.

Talk about seeing only what you want to see, did you not see that Denver brought in 2 of Manning's favorite targets from Indy and a new D.C. in DelRio that made major improvements in Denver's defense over 2011?

You believe Denver won because they benched Orton, not because they played Tebow?

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by Speedofsand

Look up Mike Vick's career completion % numbers by year and get back to me about staying with a QB in an offense.

Talk about seeing only what you want to see, did you not see that Denver brought in 2 of Manning's favorite targets from Indy and a new D.C. in DelRio that made major improvements in Denver's defense over 2011?

You believe Denver won because they benched Orton, not because they played Tebow?

Just did and I'm getting back to you!!

Vick has only had 2 of his 10 seasons where his completion percentage was below 50% and that was his first seasons in Atlanta and Philly. And only 2 seasons where his QB rating was below 72.9, which was his first and third season. Vick's career completion percentage is 56.3 and his QB rating is 80.6. In 2010, Vick's completion percentage was 62.6 and his QB rating was 100.2, 4th highest in the NFL.

Oh, and by the way, this year Vick's completion percentage was 58.1 and his QB rating was 78.1 and the Eagles are talking about dumping him.

What I believe is that Tebow was BETTER than Orton (who was horrible) and he gave a team that had already given up a spark that carried them for a while.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by Spurffelbow833

... I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles ...

WOW! Really?!?!

Do you really honestly think that NFL teams, which are all businesses who will do ANYTHING to make money, and are willing to let a guy like Ray Lewis pay nothing for what he was almost surely involved in and gave Michael Vick a second chance, have all gotten together and conspired to keep Tebow from being successful?!?!

Do you also believe JFK's assassination was a hoax or that the government staged the moon landing?!

Or is is maybe is it more that Tebow (not really by his own fault) has become such a media spectacle that rubs many NFL players wrong and has become such a polarizing figure with fans and in the locker room, that he becomes a distraction.

Again, I don't think Tebow is to blame for the attention and Tebow's attention is different, but in many ways, I think GMs and coached view Tebow a little bit like they viewed having Terrell Owens or Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson. They have to view whether the contribution these guys bring to the team are worth the media circus and potential distractions these guys bring with them.

For a period, Owens and Johnson were such contributors that it was worth it. But later in their careers, as production started to drop, it became a much more difficult question. Tebow hasn't had that kind of production to date, so the answer for most teams is pretty easy.

[Speedofsand]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

Just did and I'm getting back to you!!

Vick has only had 2 of his 10 seasons where his completion percentage was below 50% and that was his first seasons in Atlanta and Philly.

Isn't it amazing that he was given a chance to play again each of the following years? Tebow has one combined year of starts and won, yet he has been labeled a bust.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by Speedofsand

Isn't it amazing that he was given a chance to play again each of the following years? Tebow has one combined year of starts and won, yet he has been labeled a bust.

Must be because Tebow is white! Just kidding.

But in all seriousness, Vick was drafted with the expectation of a team building around him, so he's going to get more chances. Tebow was drafted more as a project. Bottom line is Tebow has gotten chances, and he will hopefully still have more chances, even if it's at another position.

But the only way he's ever going to make it is if he plays much higher than the coaches expectations in both practice and games. To date, the coaches expectations for him have been pretty modest and his performance has never exceeded those expectations.

I won't label Tebow a bust because he had his chance and he did okay. The only people who will label Tebow a bust are those who wanted to see him fail and want to be able to say "I told you so". Things just haven't worked out the way some of us expected. But there are LOTS of really talented guys guys who didn't make it because they didn't fit the system or got buried on the depth chart. Sometimes there a lot of luck involved in it. Life's not always fair.

[TheRaid]

Atlanta

Tebow has yet to have that chance. Peyton stays in Indy, who knows. If you think the Jets gave him a chance, then you just want to believe what you want to believe.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by Spurffelbow833

I take cheap shots at Urban as much as anyone, but I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles. Even if this is true, Urban Meyer was the head coach of the Florida Gators. As such, it was his job to see to it that the Gators won games, not to develop any one player at the expense of benefitting from what that player could contribute to the team immediately for the sake of the present.

This, look I love TIm but if it had cost us a win or two in 08 or 09 to turn him into an awesome NFL prospect that wouldn't have been worth it and we'd have rightly criticized Urban for it.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by Wormwood56

This is going to be a very unpopular viewpoint here, but it is accurate. I remember the discussions we had here regarding Tim's NFL viability as a quarterback when he was still here. Tim's astonishing passing numbers were due in large part to his devastating running ability. Defenses could not afford to drop players back in pass coverage for fear that Tim would tear off a 20 yard rumble up the middle. When Tim had single coverage on his receivers at the college game, he was in heaven.

But the NFL game is far tougher. Opposing defenses did not have to put eight in the box to stop Tim on the ground, and NFL defensive backs are FAR, FAR better than their college counterparts, as Steve Spurrier learned the hard way at Washington. They are faster, stronger, and most importantly, FAR more intelligent and experienced.

But it was equally clear that Tim was not a very good pro-style quarterback, and that if he didn't have his running game as an integral part of his total game, his effectiveness as a passer dropped precipitously. Remember after the Concussion Heard 'Round The World? Meyer reduced Tebow's runs, and the offense struggled. I've often said that if one could attach Chris Leak's cerebral skills and poise to all the gifts Tebow had, he'd possibly wind up at Canton with his own bust.

I am grateful for having experienced Tim with the Florida Gators, and while I wish him the very best in his NFL endeavors, the fact is that if he doesn't play another down of college football and returns to the mission, it doesn't drop the esteem he has in my eyes one iota. The NFL is a different game from the college game, requiring different skill sets.

He's never going to be even an average Pocket QB, but I do think he's a viable starter if a team went with a pure spread 4 and 5 wide system- its one of the primary reasons his QB rating increased dramatically at the end of games- given him space, easy reads and Tim is a good QB in a way that most guys aren't.

[pcolagator]

from what I've been told from some back-channel sources is that Tim's problems aren't related to skills, mechanics, etc. but reading defenses and reacting on the fly. FWIW

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

Originally Posted by pcolagator

from what I've been told from some back-channel sources is that Tim's problems aren't related to skills, mechanics, etc. but reading defenses and reacting on the fly. FWIW

I can believe this, because, since he's been in the NFL, it seems he's always reacting to the defense too late.

[pcolagator]

^^^exactly. Tim has more than enough skills and much, much more "want to" or leadership than many morons that take snaps in the NFL right now. but, if the defense makes you think out there instead of react, you're toast. if he can learn or master that skill, the sky's the limit for him.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by TheRaid

Atlanta

Tebow has yet to have that chance. Peyton stays in Indy, who knows. If you think the Jets gave him a chance, then you just want to believe what you want to believe.

Here-in lies the perception problem! People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

Players aren't GIVEN chances! They aren't GIVEN anything. Players have to EARN the right to be given chances in practice and then capitalize on those chances. For whatever reason, Tebow just hasn't done that so far. People are quick to assume there must be some kind of conspiracy but maybe Tebow just doesn't instill confidence in the coaches.

Maybe in a different system with a different set of coaches, it will be different, but I will again say that in the last 2 seasons, he was behind arguably the 2 worst QBs in the NFL and really wasn't able to take the job from them. Yes, Orton was benched and Tebow became the starter but his play was pretty marginal and it was clear at the end of the season that Denver didn't have Tebow in their long-term plans. If they hadn't signed Manning, they surely would have brought somebody else in and Tebow would have been second string again.

Denver could have signed Manning and kept Tebow as a back-up but for whatever reason, they didn't even want to keep him on the roster and they didn't ask much in return for him.

[AndyGator]

People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

I'm not claiming that Tebow is near the league of Payton. But Tebow did turn Denver around and actually won a playoff game. He was not given a chance to see what he could do with a full year of experience.

From a business perspective, Denver paid 95M for Payton yet got less post-season victories than with Tebow the year before. Had they invested that money in other quality players and given Tebow another year, would they have done any worse?

[sec1]

i hope tebow gets another chance some where , a realistic chance , not with a idiot like coach ryan

[gator85jd]

Originally Posted by AndyGator

People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

I'm not claiming that Tebow is near the league of Payton. But Tebow did turn Denver around and actually won a playoff game. He was not given a chance to see what he could do with a full year of experience.

From a business perspective, Denver paid 95M for Payton yet got less post-season victories than with Tebow the year before. Had they invested that money in other quality players and given Tebow another year, would they have done any worse?

Plus, they did add supporting players to help the O be successful after they signed Peyton. No such thing with Tim.

[sec1]

i agree...

[theghost]

Originally Posted by Spurffelbow833

...., but I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles. ....

This is my favorite comment in the whole thread....and pretty much sums up most Gator fans conclusion: it's a conspiracy! There is "collusion on the part of the NFL..." Winning be damned! There is a "collusion"....a big fat conspiracy!! Hilarious!

[LimeyGator]

Originally Posted by theghost

This is my favorite comment in the whole thread....and pretty much sums up most Gator fans conclusion: it's a conspiracy! There is "collusion on the part of the NFL..." Winning be damned! There is a "collusion"....a big fat conspiracy!! Hilarious!

You find it outlandish or hilarious that "most Gator fans" think this.

Mind if I ask how you know? Straw poll on Twitter? Chat with a couple dozen alumni?

It's a sweeping generalisation that throws people under the bus. I don't feel like there's a collusion. Am I "most Gator fans"?

[95Gator]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I know some people won't like me taking this position, and I'm as big a fan of Tebow as there is, but the same argument that is being made for why Tebow hasn't had success in the NFL can be said about the vast majority of players that have ever played in the NFL. Very few guys land in the perfect situation.

Most NFL players have had to deal with coaching changes and not being in a system that is optimal for their skills. The ones who make it and stay in the league are the guys who make the most of the opportunities they get.

The bottom line is that when Tebow has been in games, he really hasn't done a whole lot up to now to take the job from anybody and he's been behind arguably the 2 worst starting QBs in the NFL.

Just fundamentally disagree with your logic. He has a very unique skill set that is based more on will and drive (intangibles) that can't be measured on the field by a few plays.

He was meant to lead and furthermore, that leadership that he has shown through his life worked in the NFL. It's on friggen record. It speaks for itself what he did. He not only succeeded but he did it with passion and made a boring league fun. I was rooting for Broncos more than my Giants. Watching him lead them to a playoff win was equally or more fun than any of the Super Bowl victories by my Giants.

It makes no sense. Takes over a team, leads them to playoffs, wins a game, and now he can't find a home. F#$K the NFL.

[Spurffelbow833]

What is it with some people that you can't make the slightest suggestion that organizations and collectives might behave in a shady or injust manner without getting attacked ad hominem? Not even when you're defending Tim Tebow? Please, people, this is football, not Sandy Hook.