Didn't the left make a big deal about this "lie"?

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

md- if you read something and repeat it-and it turns out to be wrong it is a mistake but not a lie unless it was intentionally said to mislead-now you can come up with that conclusion in your own mind taht it was a lie but you cannot prove that conclusion

you, I and everybody else on this board probably read stuff everyday that we repeat- does that make us all liars

your 47%ers prez said he would never raise taxes on the middle class and then he did-was that a lie?

The right wing has turned this into an art.

First, a wacky website comes out with a nutty theory. Then Fox and the NY Post report on it. Limbaugh talks about it. Then, a pub pol says, "I read/heard that..."

All lies.

[g8orbill]

can you actually prove it was a lie shab?

what about your 47%ers prez and all his lies- I guess when a dem does it they aren't lies-only when a pub does it-interesting theory

[surfn1080]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

can you actually prove it was a lie shab?

what about your 47%ers prez and all his lies- I guess when a dem does it they aren't lies-only when a pub does it-interesting theory

They can't answer the tax increase question. And that's not the only lie of Obama. Everyone needs to stop acting as if all politicians don't lie!

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

can you actually prove it was a lie shab?

what about your 47%ers prez and all his lies- I guess when a dem does it they aren't lies-only when a pub does it-interesting theory

He hasn't told one lie that I am aware of.

[g8orbill]

of course not

[rivergator]

It was Politifact that named it the biggest lie of the year. It may well have cost him Ohio, since pretty much everyone knew it wasn't true.

It was a lie told in the critical state of Ohio in the final days of a close campaign -- that Jeep was moving its U.S. production to China. It originated with a conservative blogger, who twisted an accurate news story into a falsehood. Then it picked up steam when the Drudge Report ran with it. Even though Jeep's parent company gave a quick and clear denial, Mitt Romney repeated it and his campaign turned it into a TV ad.

And they stood by the claim, even as the media and the public expressed collective outrage against something so obviously false.

link

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Exactly. Romney said they were moving jobs from Ohio to China. That was false. And it's still false.

Right, first they add jobs in China then the close plants in Detroit. See how it works?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

Right, first they add jobs in China then the close plants in Detroit. See how it works?

There you go. If say something false now, it's not really false, because it might happen in the future?

[Gatoragman]

Original Bloomberg story:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...nd-climbs.html

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models atplants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."

Report from The Hill on Romney's speech in Defiance, Ohio:



Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFEqLmxt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2045988.html

Jeep announced they were reentering the Chinese market, which they suspended in 2009. That included building Jeeps in China.

Romney told a crowd in Ohio that Jeep (Fiat) was considering moving all production to China. Jeep responded by reiterating that the resumed production in China wasn't displacing jobs in the US and that they in fact intend to add jobs here too.

Jeep appears to be resuming production in China, as announced. I don't know the status of the increased production/employment here.

A lawyer might get Romney off be cause of his "thinking about" qualifier. Of course there's no support for that claim either, and Jeep's announcement that he was referring to was quite clear. But his intent appears to be to make people believe Jeep would be shutting down all factories here and replacing that output with Chinese plants. That's probably a bad thing.

Verdict: innocent of lying by technicality, morally guilty of misleading people into fearing for their jobs

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFFCqivl

Ok, iused your links and your statements, explain to me how this was percieved as a lie?

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by llm85

I fail to see the humor in moving jobs to China.

The humor is because that isn't what is happening, and yet Dave claimed it was. They are adding jobs in China at the same time as they are adding jobs in the US.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

md- if you read something and repeat it-and it turns out to be wrong it is a mistake but not a lie unless it was intentionally said to mislead-now you can come up with that conclusion in your own mind taht it was a lie but you cannot prove that conclusion

you, I and everybody else on this board probably read stuff everyday that we repeat- does that make us all liars

your 47%ers prez said he would never raise taxes on the middle class and then he did-was that a lie?

But the issue is that the right wing has a system in which false things are actively spread through media sources with the intent of misleading. As pointed out, some crazy website says an outlandish comment. It is then picked up by somebody on talk radio or who writes at a place like Weekly Standard or National Review. Then you have politicians saying it. And the only evidence they are able to provide is "I read somewhere..." This system results in many on the right buying into things that are completely untrue, even demonstrably false, as was the case here.

Since you seem desperate to turn this thread into a discussion of Obama, are you discussing the recent increase in the payroll tax? You do realize that Obama temporarily lowered the payroll tax and is now simply returning it to the level it was at when he was first inaugurated, right? I don't consider a temporary tax cut ending as a tax increase, since the cut itself was temporary.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

Ok, iused your links and your statements, explain to me how this was percieved as a lie?

I'm honestly not sure your question.

[brainstorm]

Originally Posted by rivergator

I'm honestly not sure your question.

Compare the bolded statement in the Bloomberg article to the bolded Romney quote in the Huffington post article. They seem to be in agreement. Thus, I have to wonder why Romney is being called a liar.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

Compare the bolded statement in the Bloomberg article to the bolded Romney quote in the Huffington post article. They seem to be in agreement. Thus, I have to wonder why Romney is being called a liar.

It only "agrees" if you conflate adding/expanding production sites with shifting all production to another country.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

Compare the bolded statement in the Bloomberg article to the bolded Romney quote in the Huffington post article. They seem to be in agreement. Thus, I have to wonder why Romney is being called a liar.

Oh, OK. Sorry, thought it was obvious.
Making some of each of the Chrysler models in China to sell in China is far different than closing every Chrysler plant and moving all production to China.
They make Bud and Bud Light at the A-B brewery in Jacksonville. But they don't make all the world's Bud there.

[Emmitto]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

Ok, iused your links and your statements, explain to me how this was percieved as a lie?

I said it was technically not a lie.

But IMO, the deception comes from what happened throughout the process.

The part you bolded is what the Romney camp hung their colkective hat on at first. But what about the second paragraph, which unequivocally states the exact opposite of the message Romney delivered? I could understand some confusion, as the first paragraph is undeniably poorly worded. But there was no confusion for Romney. He picked that part and ignored the part that contradicted his narrative.

Furthermore, Chrysler corrected him immediately. So then the Romney team tweaked their wording, removing "all", and subsequently made radio and TV ads that were now technically true (Jeeps will be made in China!!) and played to the erroneous (intentional or not) message of his speech in Ohio.

The new, technically correct ads were really announcing that Jeep was adding additional production lines in China that would have no effect on American jobs. The part if the announcement about more US jobs was absent. That's good news all around! But coming right after an announcement that ALL jobs were being sent to China, it might cause people to form different conclusions.

At best, Romney cherry-picked a sentence he liked more and ran with it despite another paragraph that said the exact opposite of his interpretation. No confusion, no seeking of clarification--he formed a lead-pipe lock conclusion. But then all "confusion" was cleared up by Chrysler. Yet ads were then constructed with new language, that in reality touted a positive development, but perpetuating the original mistaken in judgment/lie.

Thus, while some spin can get the "lie" label dismissed on a technicality, the deceit is readily apparent to me.

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

of course not

It's curious how after the Romney campaign established a repeated pattern of deception (wouldn't be governed by fact-checkers), you would still have no problem calling his lies just misstatements.

However, when Obama issued multiple statements regarding Benghazi due to a moving target of intelligence information, those were all lies to you.

[surfn1080]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

It's curious how after the Romney campaign established a repeated pattern of deception (wouldn't be governed by fact-checkers), you would still have no problem calling his lies just misstatements.

However, when Obama issued multiple statements regarding Benghazi due to a moving target of intelligence information, those were all lies to you.

I am curious how the POTUS was not properly informed on Benghazi till weeks after? Its amazing to me how Obama has a free pass of half the crap that happens.

Its ok because he is proving himself a liar every day and its hitting your pocket book now too.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Dave is exactly right;

The last two weeks should go down as a period of vindication for former GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney and earn him the nickname, “soothsayer of the Western World” — a modern-age Nostradamus.

On Jan. 14, Chrysler’s CEO acknowledged that Jeeps would be built in China, confirming a statement that unfairly earned Romney the moniker “liar of the year.”

Score one.

Then, when forces linked to al-Qaida captured the government-held town of Konna, Mali, on Jan. 10, they drove home a statement Romney made during the second presidential debate in Boca Raton, nearly three months earlier. “With the Arab Spring came a great deal of hope that there would be a change towards more moderation and opportunity for greater participation on the part of women and — and public life and in economic life in the Middle East,” he said then. “But instead we’ve seen in nation after nation a number of disturbing events.” Describing violence in Syria and Libya, he added this kicker: “Mali has been taken over, the northern part of Mali, by al-Qaida-type individuals.” This prompted, according to TheCommentator.com, a Bill Maher tweet: “Mitt, you do know that most of America thinks Mali is one of Obama’s daughters, right?” What far-left loon Maher doesn’t seem to understand is that it doesn’t matter if he knows what Mali is, so long as our president does.

Score two.

This week saw another Romney prediction come to pass — that a re-elected Obama would infringe on our Second Amendment rights. “In a second term, he would be unrestrained by the demands of re-election,” Romney said at an April 2012 National Rifle Association convention in St. Louis, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “As he told the Russian president last month when he thought no one else was listening, after a re-election he’ll have a lot more, quote, ‘flexibility’ to do what he wants. I’m not exactly sure what he meant by that, but looking at his first three years, I have a very good idea.” Referring to the right to bear arms, Romney told convention-goers, “If we are going to safeguard our Second Amendment, it is time to elect a president who will defend the rights President Obama ignores or minimizes. I will.” The president’s signature on 23 executive on gun control this week, as well as his acknowledged support for a ban on certain weapons and magazines, show how right Romney was.

Score three.

Finally, Romney was ridiculed for using “binders of women” to describe what a Romney Cabinet would look like. Instead of mocking the poorly worded phrase, we should have listened to the words themselves. The president’s announcement of his second-term Cabinet prompted ABC’s George Stephanopoulos to ask on Jan. 10, “Where are the women?” Apparently, they’re all still in Romney’s binders.

Score four.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/01/...tradamus-15715

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by surfn1080

I am curious how the POTUS was not properly informed on Benghazi till weeks after? Its amazing to me how Obama has a free pass of half the crap that happens.

Its ok because he is proving himself a liar every day and its hitting your pocket book now too.

Because intelligence gathering isn't always perfect.