Aaron Swartz Commits Suicide at 26

[KelticGator]

Overzealous prosecutor?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Could it have been because he committed crimes ?

Or is it always persecution when we have a cuddly-looking (to some people) defendant ?

Yeah, downloading academic journals is a serious "crime"!

He should have been beheaded before he was allowed to off himself!

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Yeah, downloading academic journals is a serious "crime"!

They might well be a very stupid laws. And the prosecutors might have been much too overzealous. But he intentionally broke those laws. And not just misdemeanors either. He was accused of committing 13 different felonies.

We live in a society that has way too many laws and we still yet make more. Look at the new laws on gun control.

Yet once a law is on the books, prosecutors and police have a duty to prosecute people after they are arrested. If the police and prosecutors cheery pick which laws they will enforce and which ones they will not, then we have tyranny.

The answer is to eliminate stupid laws and regulations which will reduce governmental intrusions on our lives.

Yet many of the people that decry this incident are all for increase regulation on a constitutional protected right. You can't have it both ways, folks.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

They might well be a very stupid laws. And the prosecutors might have been much too overzealous. But he intentionally broke those laws. And not just misdemeanors either. He was accused of committing 13 different felonies.

So what? It's not a real crime to break stupid laws.

if the government made it a crime to eat cantaloupe, it wouldn't truly be a crime.

Yet once a law is on the books, prosecutors and police have a duty to prosecute people after they are arrested. If the police and prosecutors cheery pick which laws they will enforce and which ones they will not, then we have tyranny.

It's interesting that you would say this, because it's basically the same defense the Nazis used at Nuremberg. "We were just following orders, it was the law".

It's not cherry picking the enforcement of laws that makes tyranny, it's the laws themselves.

The answer is to eliminate stupid laws and regulations which will reduce governmental intrusions on our lives.

There you go. Now you're on the right track.

[DeanMeadGator]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

Can someone hack for us the 1,100 JFK assassination-related documents still being withheld by the CIA on grounds (50 years later) of "national security"?

They all show that there was another shooter on the grassy knoll!

I wonder how many times the words "John Kennedy" and "conspiracy" have been used in the same sentence since 1965 [plus or minus one year]. If Deep Throat has been identified, what are the chances that a plot to successfully kill the President could and would be held secret for the past 48 years [plus or minus one year]?

I've heard that there is a conspiracy to cover up the capture of little green men at Area 51.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

So what? It's not a real crime to break stupid laws.

Damn, how many people have been arrested for breaking stupid laws? Pot laws are stupid. Lots of people in jail for that.

if the government made it a crime to eat cantaloupe, it wouldn't truly be a crime.

And now you begin to understand why we limited government people get so concerned about the increasing number of laws, regulations and intrusions into our lives. Because a lot of stuff going on for a long time are just as stupid as what you write.

It's interesting that you would say this, because it's basically the same defense the Nazis used at Nuremberg. "We were just following orders, it was the law".

Indeed

It's not cherry picking the enforcement of laws that makes tyranny, it's the laws themselves.

You are wrong. Let's use a real life example. David Gregory possessed a high capacity magazine to illustrate why he thought restrictions to high capacity magazines need to be part of federal law. The problem, the location in which he possessed that clip fr illustrative purposes had a law against possessing that clip FOR ANY REASON. He was breaking the law.

He was neither arrested or prosecuted for doing it, for the very reason you articulate. As others point out he was not being intentionally dangerous.

However, other people in the same area have been arrested and prosecuted for the same violation. And many of them intended no harm either. For example, there was one fellow going to a legally sanctioned gun training course in the same local as Gregory. He was in training to become a US Marshall and needed to pass that course. He lived in another state where high capacity magazines were legal. He was told to bring his own equipment. He was pulled over for a traffic ticket. His car was searched and he was arrested. THE MAN WAS A POLICEMAN IN TRAINING. Yet he was arrested and prosecuted for an innocent possession of the magazine.


Here is a pretty good website that talks about many different forms of government overreach.

[DeanMeadGator]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

No one is responsible for their own behavior, I guess. Including following the law and after getting caught, committing suicide.

As the survivor of the suicide of a very close family member, I can tell you that there are many reasons why someone decides to take their own life.

Suicide is horrible, and should not be discussed lightly. The fact is that even children commit suicide, and that is no doubt a living hell for the parents.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Yeah, downloading academic journals is a serious "crime"!

He should have been beheaded before he was allowed to off himself!

Theft is a crime, and everything is relative. People who own creative works, whether scholars, photographers, artists, movie directors, entertainers, etc., try to protect their product. To steal it (download it without paying for it) is prosecuted these days, just like any other form of theft.

I always have clients who rationalize the (non)gravity of their offenses, by saying things like, (drug traffickers): "hey, I know murderers who didn't get this much time;" or, (murderers): "hey, I know child rapers who didn't get this much time;" or (white-collar guys), "hey, I got more time than murderers, traffickers, and baby rapers, what gives ?"; etc., etc., etc.

Don't like laws, try another country where a man can be truly free. And be sure to write when you find work.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Theft is a crime, and everything is relative. People who own creative works, whether scholars, photographers, artists, movie directors, entertainers, etc., try to protect their product. To steal it (download it without paying for it) is prosecuted these days, just like any other form of theft.

I always have clients who rationalize the (non)gravity of their offenses, by saying things like, (drug traffickers): "hey, I know murderers who didn't get this much time;" or, (murderers): "hey, I know child rapers who didn't get this much time;" or (white-collar guys), "hey, I got more time than murderers, traffickers, and baby rapers, what gives ?"; etc., etc., etc.

Don't like laws, try another country where a man can be truly free. And be sure to write when you find work.

Downloading information from the internet, or the copying of intellectual property, isn't theft, since intellectual property isn't truly property. And just because it's prosecuted doesn't mean it's theft.

If you don't like me expressing my views, try a country where people can't speak freely. I hear North Korea is lovely this time of year.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Damn, how many people have been arrested for breaking stupid laws? Pot laws are stupid. Lots of people in jail for that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be under the impression that a crime is anything the government says it is. In other words, if the government says eating cantaloupe is a crime, and I eat cantaloupe anyway, that means I've committed a crime.

Is this what you believe?

And now you begin to understand why we limited government people get so concerned about the increasing number of laws, regulations and intrusions into our lives. Because a lot of stuff going on for a long time are just as stupid as what you write.

LOL, "limited government". There's no such thing and there never has been.

Government represents a monopoly on force. If a group of people have control of that monopoly while another group of people doesn't, who's going to limit the former group from using their monopoly to exploit the latter group? You think they are going to limit themselves? Of course not. It's fantasy.

You "limited government' people are frustrated because you've been living a delusion and can't figure out why the delusion doesn't produce the desired real-life results.

You are wrong. Let's use a real life example. David Gregory possessed a high capacity magazine to illustrate why he thought restrictions to high capacity magazines need to be part of federal law. The problem, the location in which he possessed that clip fr illustrative purposes had a law against possessing that clip FOR ANY REASON. He was breaking the law.

Irrelevant, as the law shouldn't even exist in the first place. It's a tyrannical, stupid law, and his supposed crime was nothing but political.

Political crimes aren't real crimes.

He was neither arrested or prosecuted for doing it, for the very reason you articulate. As others point out he was not being intentionally dangerous.

Excellent. I don't see a problem here.

However, other people in the same area have been arrested and prosecuted for the same violation. And many of them intended no harm either. For example, there was one fellow going to a legally sanctioned gun training course in the same local as Gregory. He was in training to become a US Marshall and needed to pass that course. He lived in another state where high capacity magazines were legal. He was told to bring his own equipment. He was pulled over for a traffic ticket. His car was searched and he was arrested. THE MAN WAS A POLICEMAN IN TRAINING. Yet he was arrested and prosecuted for an innocent possession of the magazine.

What are you saying here? That as long as stupid, tyrannical laws are enforced uniformly and consistently across society that you don't have as much of a problem with it? To focus on selective enforcement of stupid laws instead of the imposition of the stupid laws themselves is to miss the whole point, man.

So what am I wrong about, exactly?

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Downloading information from the internet, or the copying of intellectual property, isn't theft, since intellectual property isn't truly property. And just because it's prosecuted doesn't mean it's theft.

If you don't like me expressing my views, try a country where people can't speak freely. I hear North Korea is lovely this time of year.

I hear bizzarro world might be a nice selection for those who think that intellectual property is not protected by law.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

I hear bizzarro world might be a nice selection for those who think that intellectual property is not protected by law.

Nice straw man, captain.

[Lawdog88]

Nice debate shifting, private.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Nice debate shifting, private.

So says the guy arguing fallaciously.

Kettle, pot, pot, kettle.

[Lawdog88]

If you don't like me expressing my views,

Fallaciously.

[corpgator]

An expert on the subject said he only broke a few minor laws and nothing that even remotely warranted 30 years in jail. He was being railroaded by the prosecutor. JStor itself said they didn't want to prosecute.

Not to mention that the writers have to pay themselves to get their work published on these databases and not the other way around.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Fallaciously.

Not really.

What's good for the goose...

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Don't like laws, try another country where a man can be truly free. And be sure to write when you find work.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by ncbullgator

Our Alien forefathers.

Been watching "Ancient Aliens" lately?


....great entertainment value.

[92gator]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Why would you post this without a link to the conspiracy theories?

Probably because there aren't any....in turn, probably because no one's moved to outlaw rope...

(yet).

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Not really.

What's good for the goose...

Right.

And did you happen to notice that you invented out of whole cloth and interjected: "If you don't like me expressing my views . . . ."

Which I had said nothing about (you expressing views).

But do carry on, and do write some more about the alternate reality. People on this side would love to hear more.