The Buck Position

[Pieisyummy]

I could be wrong (it happens often) but I thought the Buck was added because of RoPo, so does it necessarily continue when he's gone?

[StrangeGator]

Originally Posted by Pieisyummy

I could be wrong (it happens often) but I thought the Buck was added because of RoPo, so does it necessarily continue when he's gone?

It was added when Mushchamp got here. Ropo was playing mostly Sam his freshman year under Meyer.

[Pieisyummy]

Originally Posted by StrangeGator

It was added when Mushchamp got here. Ropo was playing mostly Sam his freshman year under Meyer.

I did not mean to imply Meyer did it, but that Muschamp added it in an attempt to get RoPo into the mix a bit more.

[thedyc09]

Originally Posted by Pieisyummy

I did not mean to imply Meyer did it, but that Muschamp added it in an attempt to get RoPo into the mix a bit more.

No, the Buck position (essentially a floating DE that can play with his hand up or down against both the run and the pass) is the lynchpin to the flexibility of our defense. It's what allows us to give opposing offenses so many different looks. It just so happened that Powell (once he added some muscle and worked on his pass rushing moves) was exactly the kind of athletic player we were looking for to play the position.

[StrangeGator]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

McCalister will play BUCK or SSDE he still need to add weight to play those positions

He would need to add a lot of weight to ever play SSDE. He's got ideal height, but Muschamp seems to favor guys in the 275+ range. McCallister might grow that big one day, but you can't even put him on the field at the position now. Offensive tackles will maul him. I can see him getting out there as a reserve Buck, but not for any long stretches. Be interesting to see how much weight he's gained and how much mobility he's maintained. He was incredibly agile as a 6'7" 220 pound high school LB. If he's no more than 235 or 240, he might have to get his first reps at Sam.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by thedyc09

No, the Buck position (essentially a floating DE that can play with his hand up or down against both the run and the pass) is the lynchpin to the flexibility of our defense. It's what allows us to give opposing offenses so many different looks. It just so happened that Powell (once he added some muscle and worked on his pass rushing moves) was exactly the kind of athletic player we were looking for to play the position.

Exactly. He did a little of it with Quentin Groves back at Auburn, then used both Orakpo and Sergio Kindle heavily in that role. It is most effective against spread teams because it gives you a little flexibility in terms of rush and coverage packages and you can run some nice zone blitzes out of it.

Meyer was sort of trending toward it at the end of his tenure, too, because he liked what Saban had done with his outside linebackers in the 3-4 and the ability to shift between the 3-4 and the 4-3 in a one-gap scheme the way Belicheck has been doing for years with the Patriots. Powell was the perfect fit for it and he was expected to replace Cunningham at the Fox as that position moved more toward a stand up rush backer.

I hope Daniel ends up here because he is a perfect candidate. Fowler is already a little on the heavy side for it. McCallister and Cox are both decent candidates, but have some work to do.

[Ahab]

Where is Fowler going to end up? People keep talking about him as a LB but I think he's grown into a SSDE.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by Ahab

Where is Fowler going to end up? People keep talking about him as a LB but I think he's grown into a SSDE.

BUCK or SSDE

[rserina]

Originally Posted by Ahab

Where is Fowler going to end up? People keep talking about him as a LB but I think he's grown into a SSDE.

I honestly haven't seen anything about him as a linebacker, but I suspect he rotates with Bullard at the strongside end and Powell at the Buck. But his future in the league is as a 4-3 end, I think, whereas I see Powell as a 3-4 outside linebacker.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

I think Fowler put on a little extra weight prior to his arrival. I'm not sure if the staff was thrilled with the way he showed up to camp, but he carried the weight well throughout the season, and ultimately played pretty well.

He's far from a finished product. I'm not sold that he's going to grow into a Strong side DE. We'll probably know by the fall how they intend to use him. They may want him to lose 10-15 lbs over the summer. He has the ability to be an elite pass-rusher in the SEC, so I'd still think he'd be unstoppable at the Buck position if he got himself into great shape.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by NoahBeanBizzel

I think Fowler put on a little extra weight prior to his arrival. I'm not sure if the staff was thrilled with the way he showed up to camp, but he carried the weight well throughout the season, and ultimately played pretty well.

He's far from a finished product. I'm not sold that he's going to grow into a Strong side DE. We'll probably know by the fall how they intend to use him. They may want him to lose 10-15 lbs over the summer. He has the ability to be an elite pass-rusher in the SEC, so I'd still think he'd be unstoppable at the Buck position if he got himself into great shape.

I think that's fair. The real question in my mind has to do with coverage responsibilities. Powell was admittedly up and down at times, but his agility and speed could make him a great coverage backer. Fowler seems a lot less nimble, but far more physical and aggressive already. We'll see how Fowler emerges from conditioning in the spring. I still suspect he plays both positions next year.

[StrangeGator]

Originally Posted by NoahBeanBizzel

I think Fowler put on a little extra weight prior to his arrival. I'm not sure if the staff was thrilled with the way he showed up to camp, but he carried the weight well throughout the season, and ultimately played pretty well.

He's far from a finished product. I'm not sold that he's going to grow into a Strong side DE. We'll probably know by the fall how they intend to use him. They may want him to lose 10-15 lbs over the summer. He has the ability to be an elite pass-rusher in the SEC, so I'd still think he'd be unstoppable at the Buck position if he got himself into great shape.

Fowler at 277 is only three pounds lighter than Easley and six or seven pounds heavier than Bullard. He's plenty heavy enough by the standards of SSDEs we've had in recent years and would have been nose tackle material 15 years ago. He's just a lot faster and a lot quicker and maintained a lot of that with all the extra weight. We've got a lot more outside guys than inside guys, so it makes sense to start bulking guys up and moving them to SSDE and DT. If Powell looks good at Buck in the spring and we find an adequate backup, I think Fowler goes to SSDE and Bullard to DT. But if Fowler is more natural at the position, let him lose or maintain his weight and put Powell at Sam.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by StrangeGator

Fowler at 277 is only three pounds lighter than Easley and six or seven pounds heavier than Bullard. He's plenty heavy enough by the standards of SSDEs we've had in recent years and would have been nose tackle material 15 years ago. He's just a lot faster and a lot quicker and maintained a lot of that with all the extra weight. We've got a lot more outside guys than inside guys, so it makes sense to start bulking guys up and moving them to SSDE and DT. If Powell looks good at Buck in the spring and we find an adequate backup, I think Fowler goes to SSDE and Bullard to DT. But if Fowler is more natural at the position, let him lose or maintain his weight and put Powell at Sam.

If Bullard were the three-technique, where would Easley play? No way he goes to the one-technique outside of pass situations and specialty units. The kid will thrive next year in his most natural position. I also don't see Powell at Sam, not when we have two starters returning there and he hasn't played the position yet under Muschamp/Quinn.

We have a good 120-140 snaps available at end. Rotate Powell, Fowler, and Bullard and, in conjunction with the additional 10+ snaps you get in pass rush packages, that would give each of them upwards of 45 snaps per game. That is plenty. With Easley, Jacobs, and Orr, plus Cummings, Brantley and whoever else gets on campus, we have enough bodies to rotate in at the two tackle spots. You don't need to shift Bullard down there at all just yet. Maybe in 2014, but not quite yet.

[larrycooke]

Very comprehensive analysis. You folks know your stuff.

[StrangeGator]

Originally Posted by rserina

If Bullard were the three-technique, where would Easley play? No way he goes to the one-technique outside of pass situations and specialty units. The kid will thrive next year in his most natural position. I also don't see Powell at Sam, not when we have two starters returning there and he hasn't played the position yet under Muschamp/Quinn.

We have a good 120-140 snaps available at end. Rotate Powell, Fowler, and Bullard and, in conjunction with the additional 10+ snaps you get in pass rush packages, that would give each of them upwards of 45 snaps per game. That is plenty. With Easley, Jacobs, and Orr, plus Cummings, Brantley and whoever else gets on campus, we have enough bodies to rotate in at the two tackle spots. You don't need to shift Bullard down there at all just yet. Maybe in 2014, but not quite yet.

Bullard and Easley might split time almost evenly at three-technique. That would preserve stamina for both. I wouldn't call either a starter. I also think that Easley is a decent one-technique guy on some occasions, mostly in absence of a reliable one-technique guy. I don't know how Jacobs, Cummings and Brantley fit. I'm pretty sure Jacobs can play one-technique, but I don't know if he's our number one guy there. Don't know if Orr is progressing enough to man that position as a starter. He has a very high center of gravity. I don't think we have a natural, experienced one-technique guy. In absence of that, Easley might be the best athlete there. He's got a low center of gravity and a great first step. He has the potential to be a great pocket crusher.

I don't know if Brantley is even ready to get on the field next year. Not sure where Cummings fits and whether or not he's capable of helping out right away. Reed would help a lot.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by StrangeGator

Bullard and Easley might split time almost evenly at three-technique. That would preserve stamina for both. I wouldn't call either a starter. I also think that Easley is a decent one-technique guy on some occasions, mostly in absence of a reliable one-technique guy. I don't know how Jacobs, Cummings and Brantley fit. I'm pretty sure Jacobs can play one-technique, but I don't know if he's our number one guy there. Don't know if Orr is progressing enough to man that position as a starter. He has a very high center of gravity. I don't think we have a natural, experienced one-technique guy. In absence of that, Easley might be the best athlete there. He's got a low center of gravity and a great first step. He has the potential to be a great pocket crusher.

I don't know if Brantley is even ready to get on the field next year. Not sure where Cummings fits and whether or not he's capable of helping out right away. Reed would help a lot.

I would be very surprised if the staff moved Easley back to the one-technique. He got so worn down there two years ago. I actually liked Orr there last year and think the game has started slowing down for him. Jacobs is a little light in the rear, but he has enough size to be effective in tandem with Orr.

If you move Bullard to the three, you need someone else to absorb end reps and with Easley going inside and McCray and Okine graduating, you are basically down to two guys. Unless one or two of Johnson, McCallister, Cox, or the freshmen step up and are ready to play, then Powell and Fowler will be on the field entirely too much.

If Cummings can play, I see him backing up Easley at the three-technique, Orr and Jacobs at the one, Bullard at strongside end, Powell at buck, and Fowler playing both end spots, with Bullard shifting inside on pass downs and Easley playing over center. That's seven guys in the rotation with lots of flexibility (Fowler, Bullard, Easley, and Jacobs could all play two positions).

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

Who do you think are the best players in the class? Who do you think will get significant playing time?

I also like McMillian & Ivey (Taylor & vh3 are obvious)

Keanu Neal blew me away. He's the best pure athlete I've seen film of. That kid is going to be special.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Originally Posted by StrangeGator

Fowler at 277 is only three pounds lighter than Easley and six or seven pounds heavier than Bullard. He's plenty heavy enough by the standards of SSDEs we've had in recent years and would have been nose tackle material 15 years ago. He's just a lot faster and a lot quicker and maintained a lot of that with all the extra weight. We've got a lot more outside guys than inside guys, so it makes sense to start bulking guys up and moving them to SSDE and DT. If Powell looks good at Buck in the spring and we find an adequate backup, I think Fowler goes to SSDE and Bullard to DT. But if Fowler is more natural at the position, let him lose or maintain his weight and put Powell at Sam.

Fowler is extremely aggressive. He will have no problem getting to the QB. He may be 277 lbs. right now, but they may want him to shed some of that weight. Remember, he arrived at camp roughly 30 pounds heavier than he was listed at in high school, so don't be surprised if he's listed at maybe 260 heading into the fall. I agree that a lot of what they do with him will depend upon how well he does in coverage.

How well other prospects (like Cox and McCallister) perform this spring will also factor into what they do with Dante. I think Bullard would be great inside with an extra 10-15 lbs. I'm sure he'll get reps there in obvious passing situations. Ivey, Williams and Riles will likely all cross-train at both end and tackle, as Muschamp is all about being multiple.

Again, it really comes down to what happens this offseason.