So when was the last time an opposing player scored 40 points at Rupp?

[MJGator8104]

Originally Posted by dailydoublecat

Ive been told YES--but dont ask me the logistics, LOL. This may sound cruel but Im not sure I "WANT" some of these to stick around.

Jeff

In other words, the only way it can happen involves a number of the returning players or current bench warmers to leave involuntarily (although, I can understand your not wanting every player to stick around).

[REM08]

Originally Posted by Noahtogo24

Rem I curious, what do you see happening to Ryan Harrow for next season. As of now, he is not a first round pick. However, if he comes back next season, he is going to lose his spot to Harrison. Do you think he is going to mind coming off the bench next season?

Million dollar question. I never hesitate to give my opinion about something. Honestly though, I just don't know about what Harrow does. I see good reasoning for either side.

He leaves - Harrow is looking at an incredibly weak draft this year and is playing very well recently. Lets say he continues to play well the rest of the year. His main weakness is... his weakness. He's weak and very thin - far from an NBA body. As much as fans talk about hitting the weight room and college strength programs, some kids are fighting a genetic battle they're just not going to make a significant impact on. He'd be playing significantly less minutes next year and thats a tough pill to swallow. Would he be on the bench behind someone like Tyus Jones the year after also?

He stays - Players are often drafted on potential and not on college contribution. Eric Bledsoe (a good comparison only in a few ways) never really showed what he could do in college at his true position. Maybe Harrow swallows a tough pill and backs up Harrison next year. His ceiling is the same either way. If he's at all more polished, mature or physically ready, he may be drafted slightly lower because of a deep draft, but he also might end up with a better second contract due to being slightly more NBA ready. Harrow realizes (in this hypothetical situation) his NBA stock is fringe enough in the first place that he shouldn't be as worried about draft stock and should be more concerned with sticking in the league in the first place. Also, as I alluded to above, Harrow is just a sophomore. Maybe he starts his senior year. After all, if your big worry is competing with Andrew Harrison for PT and then whatever freshman comes in the year after, how are you going to be able to compete for playing time in the NBA?

If my next paycheck goes down on one of these, I guess I'd say he returns.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by MJGator8104

In other words, the only way it can happen involves a number of the returning players or current bench warmers to leave involuntarily (although, I can understand your not wanting every player to stick around).

No. I bet Jeff was kinda joking around there.

Here's how the roster breaks down. UK has a roster of 13 this year.

Beckham - graduating
Mays - graduating

Hood - return scholarship
Wiltjer - return scholarship

Polson - walkon/year by year scholarship ONLY if available
Malone - same
Long - same
Lanter - doesn't even have a scholly this year - same

Poythress - ?
Noel - ?
WCS - ?
Harrow - ?
Goodwin - ?

Kentucky has 6 committments for next year and a plus 1 out there (Randle, Gordon or Wiggins).

If you do the math, only one of the question marks has to leave. That is so far beyond a given its not worth discussing. Noel is gone. Likely at least two others will go also - leaving plenty of breathing room.

Nothing AT ALL nefarious has to go on to allow scholarships for every player who has been given any indication of having one secured for him.

[tommyuf21]

I've read the same on Harrow in that he has a very high upside that may not be fully realized at UK.

If he is indeed facing less PT next year, it may be for the best if he moves on.

I just looked at his DOB and according to the web page, he will be 22 in April.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

I've read the same on Harrow in that he has a very high upside that may not be fully realized at UK.

If he is indeed facing less PT next year, it may be for the best if he moves on.

I just looked at his DOB and according to the web page, he will be 22 in April.

Dont' you only get 5 years of eligibility? I could be wrong about that. I guess its possible a player would decide to forgo their final year.

Still though, I'm not sure I see this. He's been playing great the last 5 or 6 games. He'd have to feel there's significantly better coaching or a better system out there that could showcase something that he's unable to make visible at UK. Think there's something to be said about practicing against NBA type players also - especially when you're his size.

The only reason I could see it is if he's just really unhappy and can't stand the spotlight. Those kind of psychological aspects really can make a difference to some. Cal (and his blunt/very loud ways) have worked great with freshmen who are confident, even overconfident, and who have strong personalities. Harrow isn't of the same mold. Really, Poythress isn't either.

Nothings impossible. I'm not saying you're wrong. You never know with this stuff.

[GothamGator]

Originally Posted by REM08

Thats hard to deny, but I still think our biggest problem is just not having players that are as good as those of previous teams. If you look at each position over the course of the last 4 years, we have the worst player at each spot with the only exception being Noel (who I reluctantly give the edge to over Harrelson). Let me reiterate here, not just a lack of the best player at a position, the worst. Wall, Knight, Teague, Harrow. Lamb, Bledsoe, Goodwin. MKG, Miller, Poythress (this is the big disappointment). Jones, Patterson, WCS. Davis, Cousins, Noel, Harrelson. I think this is our biggest problem. Add to it our bench being the worst and the team experience being the worst.

I agree experience helps. Miller was key for us last year in hitting big shots and stopping the other teams momentum. I just think our problems are bigger than that. Hell, put Miller back on this team and he's probably our best player - after Noel who's primarily big defensively, not on O. If Miller would be our best player this year, think about what that says about the players we have (no disrespect to DM).

BTW, agree with the above post commending Harrelson. He's my favorite player of the last few years.

I certainly agree that there is less talent on this UK team than in the last couple of years. Put more clearly, this incoming freshman class is not as strong as it looked on paper. The last couple of years, Kentucky's incoming freshmen were even better than they looked on paper, and they looked great coming in. This was especially true last season with a once in a decade talent like Anthony Davis.

However, I don't think it is possible to win a championship with freshmen alone. If you remove even one of the three main upperclass players from last year's Kentucky team, I'm not sure they win the title. That's certainly the case if you take away more than one.

This year's team provides a good example. There is a big hole at point guard. Over reliance on freshmen often means you don't have a good second option at any position. What you really need is a guy like Miller that you can plug into multiple positions, but that's easier said than done.

[GothamGator]

By the way, I was curious about the last time a Gator got 40 points. It hasn't happened in 30 seasons. The last was Eugene McDowell with 40 against Biscayne in the O'Dome in December 1982.

The last one to get close was Joakim Noah with 37 against Georgia in 2006. The last guy to score 30 for us in a game was Erving Walker last year with 31 against Arkansas. Most in Rupp? Nick Calathes with 33 in 2009, followed by Dan Cross with 30 in 1995. We lost both games.

[MJGator8104]

Thanks for the breakdown, Rem08. I'm kind of surprised that the number of players got so low that so many walkon's were given a schollie this season. What is your breakdown by class (as stated, you have only two seniors)?

[REM08]

Originally Posted by MJGator8104

Thanks for the breakdown, Rem08. I'm kind of surprised that the number of players got so low that so many walkon's were given a schollie this season. What is your breakdown by class (as stated, you have only two seniors)?

Cal is good at getting players to share PT and share the ball and everything, but he'll never be so good at this that his team goes 10+ deep. One of the draw backs of his strategy is that you end up with a rotation of 7 or 8 (not 10 deep like you see with some teams) and the rest are guys who know they won't see the floor (and probably shouldn't). This leaves risk of injury (which he's been very lucky with) as something on any UK fan's mind.

This year's class breakdown looks like this:

Mays - grad student
Beckham - senior

Polson - junior
Hood - RS junior

Harrow - RS sophomore
Wiltjer - sophomore
Malone/Long/Lanter - sophomores

Poythress/Noel/Goodwin/WCS - freshmen

I've been vocal in support of Cal's strategy, but it appears having a senior day involving a very good player will be a rarity. I actually wonder (or is it hope?) if there will be a backlash of sorts to the number of kids who are going the OAD path recently - something that makes more freshmen reconsider before leaving. My take is that guys like MKG, Davis and Beal should leave if they want. But we're now seeing guys like Jones (even though he was here 2 years) and Teague either riding the bench or bouncing back and forth to the D league. Maybe this will make a few more guys picked in the 2nd half of the first round rethink what they should do. Probably not though.

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by REM08

Maybe this will make a few more guys picked in the 2nd half of the first round rethink what they should do. Probably not though.

The pressure on some of these kids to declare is pretty high; from the agents who want to cash in on their investment, their families and hangers on that want financial support and the media that seems to create this perception that if they don't declare after their first year they are a failure.

[GatorLurker]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

The pressure on some of these kids to declare is pretty high; from the agents who want to cash in on their investment, their families and hangers on that want financial support and the media that seems to create this perception that if they don't declare after their first year they are a failure.

David Lee and Chandler Parsons stayed all 4 and I think they are doing just fine. Same with Matt Bonner and UD.

Joakim Noah and Al Horford elected to stay for year 3 and I don't consider them as failures.

Brad Beal could do whatever he wanted to do and be good. To bad he is a Wiz. That has got to suck.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by GothamGator

I certainly agree that there is less talent on this UK team than in the last couple of years. Put more clearly, this incoming freshman class is not as strong as it looked on paper. The last couple of years, Kentucky's incoming freshmen were even better than they looked on paper, and they looked great coming in. This was especially true last season with a once in a decade talent like Anthony Davis.

However, I don't think it is possible to win a championship with freshmen alone. If you remove even one of the three main upperclass players from last year's Kentucky team, I'm not sure they win the title. That's certainly the case if you take away more than one.

This year's team provides a good example. There is a big hole at point guard. Over reliance on freshmen often means you don't have a good second option at any position. What you really need is a guy like Miller that you can plug into multiple positions, but that's easier said than done.

When I first read this I pretty much agreed with it, but the more I think about it the more I think it might not be a fair assumption unless you include a caveat.

Lets say the assumption is true that if you remove Lamb or Miller, UK doesn't win a title. My question is, would that still be the case if they were replaced with a very talented freshmen? I'm not sure I know the answer, but I think it'd be tough for me to assume that UK wouldn't have won the title minus Miller or Lamb if, say, that meant UK had Brad Beal (just as an example) in that years freshmen class. What if no Miller, but there were two MKG's instead (or, hypothetically, Wiggins or something). In theory, we could have just said, what if Lamb or Jones were freshmen last year instead of a sophomore. Obviously I'm just trying to isolate the variable of experience without removing the player/talent altogether. Arguments can be made for UK not being able to get a replacement in that class and I wouldn't disagree. But with a class like next years that is much larger, Its not unreasonable to think about for the future.

[GatorJeff]

Originally Posted by GatorLurker

David Lee and Chandler Parsons stayed all 4 and I think they are doing just fine. Same with Matt Bonner and UD.

Joakim Noah and Al Horford elected to stay for year 3 and I don't consider them as failures.

Brad Beal could do whatever he wanted to do and be good. To bad he is a Wiz. That has got to suck.

Speaking of Parsons, remember how a lot of UK fans were bent out of shape when Chandler won SEC player of the year a couple years ago? They thought Bandon Knight should have been the winner that season in a landslide. Knight is doing very well in the NBA with Detroit, but Parsons is doing at least as well, perhaps better, with Houston. In retrospect, the UK fans never seemed to have much appreciation for Parsons' excellent all-around game, which I found very strange because of their overall basketball knowledge, pedigree and general appreciation for the game of basketball. It's almost like they've forgotten their roots in the last few years and now only worship highly-athletic superstar types. To heck with Kyle Macy and Travis Ford, they now want to see guys leap out of the gym and block shots into the fifth row.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by GatorJeff

Speaking of Parsons, remember how a lot of UK fans were bent out of shape when Chandler won SEC player of the year a couple years ago? They thought Bandon Knight should have been the winner that season in a landslide. Knight is doing very well in the NBA with Detroit, but Parsons is doing at least as well, perhaps better, with Houston. In retrospect, the UK fans never seemed to have much appreciation for Parsons' excellent all-around game, which I found very strange because of their overall basketball knowledge, pedigree and general appreciation for the game of basketball. It's almost like they've forgotten their roots in the last few years and now only worship highly-athletic superstar types. To heck with Kyle Macy and Travis Ford, they now want to see guys leap out of the gym and block shots into the fifth row.

I'm sure you're describing some UK fans accurately, but IMO not the majority (probably couldn't tell from message boards though).

Not saying Parsons shouldn't have won POY that year, but I dont 'think future NBA performance in any way validates an award like this.

I'd also say its fair to estimate that even most gator fans are surprised at how well Parsons is doing in the league.

If UK fans, specifically, failed to appreciate Parsons game to the degree they should have, I think one of the reasons might have been due to how Parsons struggled guarding Miller during some of the UF/UK games. I'm sure many of you can remember Miller playing well against Florida. I do not suspect that Parsons would have much trouble anymore. I also think some UK fans had trouble with the 'best player from the best team' (perception at least) strategy of giving the award to Parsons because, while UF definitely had the best SEC season, many UK fans thought Kentucky was the best team by the end of the year.

In general, I really don't think UK fans really spent much time analyzing Chandler's abilities much past a pretty lazy critique. Much of what he was best at were the little things. I still remember the game we lost to you guys was because of Parsons. He must have had five weak-side offensive rebounds that game.

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by REM08

I also think some UK fans had trouble with the 'best player from the best team' (perception at least) strategy of giving the award to Parsons because, while UF definitely had the best SEC season, many UK fans thought Kentucky was the best team by the end of the year.

If the tables were turned, the UK fans would be screaming in defense of Parsons.

He plays for us, so he's not as good. It's that simple. If he played for UK that year, they would be raving about him.

[BEH]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

The question I have for the Kentucky fans on here is if no players on this year's team turned pro would there still be scholarships available for the one coming in next year?

YES.

[BEH]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

The pressure on some of these kids to declare is pretty high; from the agents who want to cash in on their investment, their families and hangers on that want financial support and the media that seems to create this perception that if they don't declare after their first year they are a failure.

The agents have no investment outside of their time invested in the kids. In my view there is no Quid pro quo, "this for that". It is like having a sales position and you make money by increasing your contacts. I feel that many of those agents invest a lot of time and get nothing. You are big into WWW; however, last year he totally failed in he had a quid pro quo at UK.

Why did Beal go as a one and done last year? Was it quid pro quo? Did he have pressure to leave after one year? Did he have a deal with an agent? The answer is NO, NO and NO. He had a great freshman year and would have been stupid to pass up $3.5 million. Yet Davis and Kidd-Gilcrest were crooks and had agents like WWW and their/his illegal quest for wealth.

After all the college coaches are making far, far more money than the agents.

[tommyuf21]

The agents begin investing their time and money on these kids years before they choose a school. They are allowed unlimited contact. They pay off AAU coaches to make sure these kids go in the direction they want. Even in college, when the coaches aren't allowed to have contact with the students, the agents can talk to them as much as they want.

In my opinion, the coaches don't get paid quite enough to put up with the tampering and crap that goes on in recruiting and continues on while they are in school. Agents don't get their pay day until the young man signs the contract so it is in their best interest to get them to the league as fast as possible. Once they get that first contract and their cut, the rest is gravy to them.

There is only one way to deal with this. End the stupid one and done rule. Go back to a two year commitment and give the kids that can go straight to the league the opportunity to do that. And while they are at it, ban all contact between agents and amateurs. It won't affect the ones who want to go straight to the league as they don't want to go to school anyway. It will make the others think twice if they want to complete at least two years of college.