Why isn't Trey Burton #1 WR on depth chart?

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by Annihilgator

If you believe this, then you don't understand the concept of the Wildcat.

I do understand it, but please tell.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

He's balled as much or more than most of the players since he's arrived. That's good enough for me.

[Annihilgator]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

I do understand it, but please tell.

There's a reason that the Wildcat position is played almost exclusively by running backs. The Wildcat is dependent not on any ability to throw the ball, but on the ability to read blocking lanes and take advantage of the extra blocker.

The Spread Option, on the other hand, is dependent on the ability to complete passes as well as utilize the QB in the run game.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by Annihilgator

There's a reason that the Wildcat position is played almost exclusively by running backs. The Wildcat is dependent not on any ability to throw the ball, but on the ability to read blocking lanes and take advantage of the extra blocker.

The Spread Option, on the other hand, is dependent on the ability to complete passes as well as utilize the QB in the run game.

Actually that is wrong. The wildcat is run mainly by running backs because it is a run play. There are a handful of QBs these days that run the "wildcat" as well as the spread option.

Now while in theory you do have an extra blocker which is the genesis of the wildcat, but now really only comes into play with the Cam Newtons and Tim Tebows of the world. With Trey Burton every player on the defense knows its a run. The DBs and LBs can cheat and effectively eliminate any advantage of an extra blocker.

Hence why the wildcat (via backs) has been stoned across football the past couple years. Once the D realized that there is no threat to pass and they can effectively put 10 in the box.

That doesn't mean it can't work, any play can work, especially with an athletic advantage.

However an offense has a bigger advantage in the running game if the D has to respect the pass. It holds the back 7. The wildcat does not. Hence why the SO (or the Wildcat) by athletic QBs can work. By RBs...not so much.

[gatorev12]

Almost forgot to add: any thread that discusses Burton's role on the team should also mention the tireless work Burton did recruiting that 2010 #1 ranked recruiting class to Florida. Many of our top juniors from this past year (Floyd, Easley, Elam, and others) said that he was the guy that constantly did more than anyone else to push all the top recruits to Florida.

[Annihilgator]

It's funny that you said this:

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Actually that is wrong.

And then proceeded to in no way contradict what I said:

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

The wildcat is run mainly by running backs because it is a run play. There are a handful of QBs these days that run the "wildcat" as well as the spread option.

Now while in theory you do have an extra blocker which is the genesis of the wildcat, but now really only comes into play with the Cam Newtons and Tim Tebows of the world. With Trey Burton every player on the defense knows its a run. The DBs and LBs can cheat and effectively eliminate any advantage of an extra blocker.

Hence why the wildcat (via backs) has been stoned across football the past couple years. Once the D realized that there is no threat to pass and they can effectively put 10 in the box.

That doesn't mean it can't work, any play can work, especially with an athletic advantage.

However an offense has a bigger advantage in the running game if the D has to respect the pass. It holds the back 7. The wildcat does not. Hence why the SO (or the Wildcat) by athletic QBs can work. By RBs...not so much.

The Wildcat is never run by a QB. If it is, it's called an option play.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by Annihilgator

It's funny that you said this:

And then proceeded to in no way contradict what I said:

The Wildcat is never run by a QB. If it is, it's called an option play.

What would you call every single short yardage Tim Tebow run then? That is the definition of the wildcat.

[Swampmaster]

the wildcat---easy to defense, works sometimes against mediocre defenses. Most D's --- shut it down. It's already out of date.

[Annihilgator]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

What would you call every single short yardage Tim Tebow run then? That is the definition of the wildcat.

An option play.

[petro]

Holy crapstorm Batman!!! LOL.

[petro]

Brother from another mother....

At Forest Park HS, Ward played quarterback in a high-powered shotgun offense, and excelled on the diamond as a baseball player in the spring. Hines was the starting quarterback for the better part of three varsity seasons and amassed 3,581 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards. He threw for 38 touchdowns and ran for 29 more. As a junior and a senior, he was named the county’s Offensive Player of the Year. In his final season on the gridiron, Hines threw for more than 1,500 yards, ran for more than 1,000 yards and earned All-American honors from Super Prep and USA Today.

Ward's versatility, hands and willingness to block served him well as a professional wide receiver. Since being drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers as the 32nd pick in the third round of the 1998 NFL Draft, he earned three team Most Valuable Player (MVP) selections.

Burton will be drafted. He is Hines Ward the 2nd. Or at least, could be if used properly.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by Annihilgator

An option play.

I disagree. The stuff with Tebow was pure single wing, not option. With precious few exceptions, there were no run-pass options out of that look. It was a zone read, yes, which gives the quarterback an option as to where he wants to run based upon who shoots gaps, how blocks develop, etc., but that isn't an option play per se. Just a read play.

But I do agree in general with your point about the Wildcat being a single wing with a running back and no pass option built into it. What we have done more with Burton is to pull a guard and turn it into a counter trap or a sweep, so it is more of a traditional run and less of a read play, though the latter is in there at times.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by rserina

I disagree. The stuff with Tebow was pure single wing, not option. With precious few exceptions, there were no run-pass options out of that look. It was a zone read, yes, which gives the quarterback an option as to where he wants to run based upon who shoots gaps, how blocks develop, etc., but that isn't an option play per se. Just a read play.

But I do agree in general with your point about the Wildcat being a single wing with a running back and no pass option built into it. What we have done more with Burton is to pull a guard and turn it into a counter trap or a sweep, so it is more of a traditional run and less of a read play, though the latter is in there at times.

I agree here. Although Tebow ran plenty with no option. Sure a good chunk was as you mentioned but plenty where it was a Tebow designed run. And eventually we would run play action off that. An example of the Tebow wildcat would be the Ole Miss loss.

And I'm not sure how this is even a discussion, it was widely discussed how Tim was running the wildcat in NY this year.

[Annihilgator]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

I agree here. Although Tebow ran plenty with no option. Sure a good chunk was as you mentioned but plenty where it was a Tebow designed run. And eventually we would run play action off that. An example of the Tebow wildcat would be the Ole Miss loss.

And I'm not sure how this is even a discussion, it was widely discussed how Tim was running the wildcat in NY this year.

Tebow in NY is a bad example for this particular discussion because he was clearly misused in NY. Did he run Wildcat? Yes. Was he actually playing the QB position when he ran the Wildcat? No. He was playing the classic single wing tailback position. The coaches had basically already decided he wasn't a QB and used him like a running back.

[petro]

Originally Posted by Annihilgator

Tebow in NY is a bad example for this particular discussion because he was clearly misused in NY. Did he run Wildcat? Yes. Was he actually playing the QB position when he ran the Wildcat? No. He was playing the classic single wing tailback position. The coaches had basically already decided he wasn't a QB and used him like a running back.

Thanks for making my argument. Put Burton in a "real" position and let him play it all game every game.


Or.......................... let a bazillion people know he is going to run the ball 3 times a game based on where he lines up. What a waste.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by petro

Thanks for making my argument. Put Burton in a "real" position and let him play it all game every game.


Or.......................... let a bazillion people know he is going to run the ball 3 times a game based on where he lines up. What a waste.

What position would that be? He isn't a running back, he isn't a receiver, he isn't a quarterback. I suspect he gets an opportunity to play more tight end next season, but we used him far more than in wildcat situations this past season. He lined up as an H-back, with his hand down as a tight end, in the slot, and in the backfield. He was a pass receiver in the flat and in the screen game. He was involved in pass protection and perimeter blocking for both run and pass.

With this offense, you can't think in terms of positions. We run packages. Was Patton a receiver when he basically only ran sweeps? Was Hines a receiver when he lined up over half the time with his hand down? Were Humphries or Silberman tight ends because they lined up as sixth- and seventh-offensive linemen in heavy packages?

Burton isn't going to beat you deep as a receiver, but he can run the single wing stuff, he can catch the ball in the flats and beat linebackers to the edge, and he can help block both on the perimeter and in the backfield. A system like Pease's tries to use that to our advantage rather than forcing Burton into a predetermined position with a narrowly defined skill set.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by rserina

What position would that be? He isn't a running back, he isn't a receiver, he isn't a quarterback. I suspect he gets an opportunity to play more tight end next season, but we used him far more than in wildcat situations this past season. He lined up as an H-back, with his hand down as a tight end, in the slot, and in the backfield. He was a pass receiver in the flat and in the screen game. He was involved in pass protection and perimeter blocking for both run and pass.

With this offense, you can't think in terms of positions. We run packages. Was Patton a receiver when he basically only ran sweeps? Was Hines a receiver when he lined up over half the time with his hand down? Were Humphries or Silberman tight ends because they lined up as sixth- and seventh-offensive linemen in heavy packages?

Burton isn't going to beat you deep as a receiver, but he can run the single wing stuff, he can catch the ball in the flats and beat linebackers to the edge, and he can help block both on the perimeter and in the backfield. A system like Pease's tries to use that to our advantage rather than forcing Burton into a predetermined position with a narrowly defined skill set.

Most of that is fine except when you tip the play beforehand, which is what we do with Burton in the wildcat.

[g8rfan22]

Originally Posted by rserina

What position would that be? He isn't a running back, he isn't a receiver, he isn't a quarterback. I suspect he gets an opportunity to play more tight end next season, but we used him far more than in wildcat situations this past season. He lined up as an H-back, with his hand down as a tight end, in the slot, and in the backfield. He was a pass receiver in the flat and in the screen game. He was involved in pass protection and perimeter blocking for both run and pass.

With this offense, you can't think in terms of positions. We run packages. Was Patton a receiver when he basically only ran sweeps? Was Hines a receiver when he lined up over half the time with his hand down? Were Humphries or Silberman tight ends because they lined up as sixth- and seventh-offensive linemen in heavy packages?

Burton isn't going to beat you deep as a receiver, but he can run the single wing stuff, he can catch the ball in the flats and beat linebackers to the edge, and he can help block both on the perimeter and in the backfield. A system like Pease's tries to use that to our advantage rather than forcing Burton into a predetermined position with a narrowly defined skill set.

Agreed...Simply put, Trey plays the "x-factor" position.

[petro]

Originally Posted by g8rfan22

Agreed...Simply put, Trey plays the "x-factor" position.

EXACTLY!!!! He is dying a slow death of being 'nflTEBOWED' while still in college.

Commit to him as full time WR, and .................................................


see what happens. First round draft pick.


Hines Ward. Look him up. They are twins. Trey is NFL. But NO way in the backfield.

[petro]

Originally Posted by rserina

What position would that be? He isn't a running back, he isn't a receiver, he isn't a quarterback.

????

He "isn't" Because you wrote a sentence?