Play Brawl!!!! did sportswriters get it right? no HOF inductees

[oldgator]

state yes or no, then your argument in support of your vote.

My vote--yes. the sportswriters got it right
argument-- The criteria for induction into HOF involves many criteria. It isn't just about stats, W-L, World series played, etc. One of the criteria that voting sports writers are 'supposed' to factor into their voting is a player's 'sports integrity' In other words did the player cheat and break rules relating to the playing of the game to a large extent. Another criteria that is 'supposed' to be factored in is that the voter is 'suppose' to look at the player's entire career(in other words if a player didn't cheat for first half of his career the voter is not supposed to turn a blind eye to that player cheating the second half of his career). So I believe the sportswriters got it right by not voting PED'ers into the HOF. As to other players who were not voted in. There is always next year. It appears that MLB players and ESPN choose not to protect the integrity of the game. The players' union effectively blocks team owners and commissioner from being more aggressive in regards to PED's. Thankfully there are a majority of baseball sportswriters around the country with love and respect for the game of baseball to not allow cheaters to be a blot on the Baseball HOF. PED'ers knew they were breaking rules. And by making the choice they made they chose to risk induction into HOF.

[Gatorsmob]

So should hank Aaron be in the hall of fame? I say yes but he has admitted to amphetamine use in his playing days. You can not tell me Barry bonds and roger Clemens should not be in the hall of fame. I am 25 years old and when/if I have a son and bring him to the hall of fame he is going to be wondering where the plaque is for bonds Clemens and many of the other greats. I am for putting on the plaque about steroid use but these are the best players in the "steroid" era.

[oldgator]

tell your son those guys didn't get in because they were cheaters.

[Wuerffel5220]

There's a thread going on the Pub, gonna move it there just because it's a good discussion

[Gator30339]

They are in the Hall of Fame. They have used bats, baseballs, jersey's and gloves that have been contributed from moments in their careers. Pete Rose is all over the HOF with memorabilia. They made their mark and their money.

[Gatorsmob]

That's why I asked about hank Aaron? What do you think about him self admitting cheating? And what do you think about the days that African Americans were not allowed to play in the majors meaning babe Ruth Gehrig etc.. Did not play against the best competition. Every era had its problems we are now in am era where media is huge now and people know more because of it. The hall of fame is a museum of history and the greats of every era should be in it. Plus it killed biggio and piazza who have never been linked to steroids.

[thewhistle]

No cheaters. Shoeless Joe, Rose, Bonds, Sosa etc...

[oldgator]

there is a tendency among many baseball writers to not vote a player into the HOF if its the first year of being eligible to be voted upon---unless they are even more outstanding than Joe Dimaggio(who did not get in his first year on ballot). These particular voters believe that being voted in on first ballot should be reserved for the absolute greatest of the greatest

[gatorcop]

The fact that McGriff, Murphy, or Jack Morris didn't make it is proof enough to me that the voters have an agenda.

[Gatorsmob]

Gator cop educate me.. I am a huge baseball fan but not lucky enough to see Morris pitch or Murphy play. Grew up in atlanta so got to see McGriff play a ton. The argument people have with Murphy is the longevity of his prime they say it was to short of a time.. What do you think of that? And Morris like I said I never got to see him pitch but his stats don't seem worthy especially since he pitched in an era where pitchers had the upper hand.

[myamiG8R]

Originally Posted by thewhistle

No cheaters. Shoeless Joe, Rose, Bonds, Sosa etc...

george brett? gaylord perry? pretty much anyone who ever pulled up their stirrups! corked bats and pine tar and petroleum jelly aren't notable cuz just one guy did it... baseball has always been about its "cheaters" and in many ways we celebrate it and laugh a little...

a baseball hall of fame without rose, bonds, and clemens is meaningless... and a baseball hall that would include biggio is a joke (so the writers at least got that correct)...

[LeafUF]

Originally Posted by gatorcop

The fact that McGriff, Murphy, or Jack Morris didn't make it is proof enough to me that the voters have an agenda.

I cant wait for a new breed of voters to take over. The voting is a total joke. Morris was a beast in his day and is really getting penalized for pitching too long and letting his era go up. McGriff is basically 7 home runs away from being in the Hall, as silly as that sounds. If there was no strike during his career he probably surpasses 500 home runs and is in.

[LeafUF]

My thoughts on the steroids guys is pretty simple they should all be in. Steroids do not make you magically superior if you have no skills. Clemens and Bonds especially were great players before they were ever associated with PEDs. And I hate both of them, but the numbers dont lie.

This country is completely bipolar on steroid use.

[oldgator]

so, the argument some are presenting is that once one or two ....or more cheaters get into the HOF that no cheaters are to ever be kept out from then on? that a line can't or shouldn't be drawn.

what a load of crap

[LeafUF]

Originally Posted by oldgator

so, the argument some are presenting is that once one or two ....or more cheaters get into the HOF that no cheaters are to ever be kept out from then on? that a line can't or shouldn't be drawn.

what a load of crap

What is a load of crap is that we call them cheaters in the first place. We want our sports stars to be super heroes and then get self-righteous when we find out that they did whatever it took to be the heroes we asked them to be.

[myamiG8R]

Originally Posted by oldgator

so, the argument some are presenting is that once one or two ....or more cheaters get into the HOF that no cheaters are to ever be kept out from then on? that a line can't or shouldn't be drawn.

what a load of crap

i'm not making that argument... i think players worthy of the hall should get in... rose, bonds and clemens are worthy based on their on-field performance...

furthermore, we need to stop relying simply on numbers... 3000 hits, 500 homers (it was 400 a couple decades ago)... the question is how did you impact the game... did you dominate because of you... there are many nice players, fewer great players, and far fewer still hall of famers...

[gatorcop]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmob

Gator cop educate me.. I am a huge baseball fan but not lucky enough to see Morris pitch or Murphy play. Grew up in atlanta so got to see McGriff play a ton. The argument people have with Murphy is the longevity of his prime they say it was to short of a time.. What do you think of that? And Morris like I said I never got to see him pitch but his stats don't seem worthy especially since he pitched in an era where pitchers had the upper hand.

Murphy was a 7-time All-Star, won 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves, was back-to-back MVP for a pretty poor Braves team. He finished with 398 HRs, but he ended up with chronic knee problems the last 2-3 years. In his prime, he was one of the most feared hitters and RBI men in baseball, and he also had 161 stolen bases. He came up as a catcher, but due to throwing issues, they moved him to 1st base, then eventually to CF.

Jack Morris was one of the most solid and complete pitchers in baseball. He won almost 58% of his starts, and went 7-4 in the playoffs. He won 20 games 3 times, and finished with a 3.90 ERA. He led the league in wins 2 or 3 times, and won a total of 254 games.

McGriff is self-explanatory. Excellent 1st baseman, great HR hitter and even better in the playoffs/World Series.

[gatorman_07732]

Yes.......Only possibility I saw from that group is piazza, the rest are cheaters.
Also need to right the wrong and let Rose get on the ballot as a player

[Wuerffel5220]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

I cant wait for a new breed of voters to take over. The voting is a total joke. Morris was a beast in his day and is really getting penalized for pitching too long and letting his era go up. McGriff is basically 7 home runs away from being in the Hall, as silly as that sounds. If there was no strike during his career he probably surpasses 500 home runs and is in.

Morris had 2 poor seasons, in his 3rd to last year he won 21 games, but with a 4.04 ERA.

Let's take those last 2 years out then. He has 237 wins in 16 seasons, a 3.73 ERA (still one of the highest of any HOF of all time), only 2200 strikeouts and still the most wild pitches of all time. No Cy Youngs (not even any top 2 finishes), and 5 All Star games. A good pitcher, but especially considering his era, not a Hall of Famer.

[myamiG8R]

Originally Posted by Wuerffel5220

Morris had 2 poor seasons, in his 3rd to last year he won 21 games, but with a 4.04 ERA.

Let's take those last 2 years out then. He has 237 wins in 16 seasons, a 3.73 ERA (still one of the highest of any HOF of all time), only 2200 strikeouts and still the most wild pitches of all time. No Cy Youngs (not even any top 2 finishes), and 5 All Star games. A good pitcher, but especially considering his era, not a Hall of Famer.

spot on!