Saban's Success...

[gator34654]

Recruit, Developing players and coaching. He seems to excel at all 3. The other thing is he demands and seems to get the best out of his coaches. They either produce or they're gone. Right now bama prob. can get their pick of asst coaches but not always ie Pease.

It's my guess that NS is a perfectionist and control freak and it works. He expects/demands perfection (or close to it) and gets it. Like him or not the guy gets results.

WM has a lot of NS in him. He can recruit and coach but where I see some not measuring up is in the area of player development. I still think as a whole our OL remains average at best. Our O as a whole didn't seem to improve all that much. Player development is an area I'd like to see our coaching staff improve.

[GATORAZ]

You didnt see a change where our OL got dominated by LSU in year 1 to dominating LSU in year two?

[gator34654]

I did see a great effort from our OL vs lsu, they played well primarily in the run game not so much in the passing game. Frankly I saw more times than not throughout the year an OL that performed or (didn't perform) vs UL. Once again I see an O at the bottom of the sec and closer to the bottom of all teams when it comes to offense.

I saw a Nixon and Halipro remain turnstiles as they were before. Nixon a sr, Halp. a jr. I see JD not progressing either throughout the year. Just a few examples.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by gator34654

I did see a great effort from our OL vs lsu, they played well primarily in the run game not so much in the passing game. Frankly I saw more times than not throughout the year an OL that performed or (didn't perform) vs UL. Once again I see an O at the bottom of the sec and closer to the bottom of all teams when it comes to offense.

I saw a Nixon and Halipro remain turnstiles as they were before. Nixon a sr, Halp. a jr. I see JD not progressing either throughout the year. Just a few examples.

the team was 11-2 this year. They were able to the run the ball between the tackles which was not the case the year prior.

Why would you expect Nixon to make some miraculous jump from Junior to senior year? He is what he is, plus he was playing against better DE's this year. It hard to give Nixon better feet. You also have to remember we changed OL coaches this year

The Oline was much more physical this year when healthy you had to see that. I dont know why some people try to compare Saban in his 6th year to Muschamp in his 2nd. CWM is still working on the roster especially on the offensive side of the ball. Saban just got there offensively this year.

[GATORAZ]

Maybe I am different. Going into the year I wasn't too worried about what our record would be. The one thing I wanted to see was the Gators be more physical on the offensive line and the defensive front 7. I did not want to see LSU or BAMA game where we get dominated on the line again. This year I saw the offensive line push people around when healthy. The defensive front 7 especially the LB's were much more physical so I saw improvement.

[cadillacattack]

saban is a very good coach, and should be respected accordingly, ... but it is also fair to say he gets a lot of credit for the machine that is bama.

bama's winning formula:

1. Acquire the Best Talent ... by any means necessary
2. Beef 'Em Up ... by any medical means necessary
3. Keep 'Em Eligible .... by any means necessary
4. Roster Management .... oversign, cull 'em, and cut 'em ... by any means
necessary
5. Keep 'Em Quiet .... by any means necessary
6. Tilt the Playing Field .... in your favor, by any means necessary ($1 to
Emmert and the local media)
7. Coach 'Em Up .... as best you can, trample the NCAA allowed limits
8. Remind Yourself Daily .... "The end justifies the means"

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

Maybe I am different. Going into the year I wasn't too worried about what our record would be. The one thing I wanted to see was the Gators be more physical on the offensive line and the defensive front 7. I did not want to see LSU or BAMA game where we get dominated on the line again. This year I saw the offensive line push people around when healthy. The defensive front 7 especially the LB's were much more physical so I saw improvement.

Exactly.

By the way, to hell with Nick Saban and to hell with Bama. Everyone get off their jocks, it's sickening.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Exactly.

By the way, to hell with Nick Saban and to hell with Bama. Everyone get off their jocks, it's sickening.

Now tell me you don't respect his coaching abilities, and it was the machine that did it.

Come on.

[GatorBen]

Originally Posted by cadillacattack

6. Tilt the Playing Field .... in your favor, by any means necessary ($1 to Emmert and the local media)

If we could get an advantage by giving one freaking dollar to the NCAA president and to the Gainesville Sun, perhaps we should be doing so.

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by gator34654

WM has a lot of NS in him. He can recruit and coach but where I see some not measuring up is in the area of player development. I still think as a whole our OL remains average at best. Our O as a whole didn't seem to improve all that much. Player development is an area I'd like to see our coaching staff improve.

While Muschamp was chasing Chris Doering into the endzone, Satan was the defensive coordinator of the Browns under Beelzebub.

Give the guy some time and you'll see his player development improve.

As recently as 2005-6, Satan was struggling as a Head Coach in Miami and by no means did he dominate at LSU. He was still learning his craft and perfecting his methods.

[mkpulley1]

Cadillac, hellavu first post. BTW great photo!

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Now tell me you don't respect his coaching abilities, and it was the machine that did it.

Come on.

Saban is a great coach, but he is by no means perfect. He has flaws and can be defeated. I would not trade Muschamp for Saban.

[gatorev12]

Muschamp's a defensive coach--and we saw our defense make tremendous improvements in year 2. It went from a good unit to a dominate unit able to win the field position battle and not give up too many points. Talented defensive players (Roberson and Purifoy and McCray) went from "potential" to production. Additionally, in his first real recruiting class, Muschamp got a number of highly talented defensive recruits--many of whom were able to play right away (Morrison, Fowler, and Bullard are the obvious ones). Taken together, you can't argue that Muschamp is lacking in the player development department...at least when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.

As for the offensive side of the ball--Muschamp has pretty clearly given wide deference to the OC...hiring experienced coaches in the two seasons he's been here. Weis was a nice temporary splash and most of us applauded the move at the time--but in fairness to Muschamp, Weis never been good at developing talent at the college level and we did need to act quickly.

Pease has made a nice difference--and I think almost everyone could acknowledge we improved on our OL from last year to this year, but the offense as a whole was still hampered by inexperience (new starter in Driskel), injuries along the OL during the middle part of the season, and problems at the WR position (lack of experienced playmakers and lack of a position coach). Another full offseason and a full recruiting cycle and then we'll have a bit more basis to judge how effective he is at player development, but the signs are encouraging.

[CAGator93]

Love the LSU game analysis.

Muschamps first year, it didn't seem like we'd ever beat those guys again. The punter gets a TD called back for taunting us.

Year 2 - we smack them down in the trenches and shove it down their throat in the running game, while holding them to 6 points.

yeah - I see progress.

[Dreamliner]

I believe that player development, along with coaching is key for Saban. Surveying his defense, I didn't see a lot of what I'd consider recruiting studs. But they're tough, disciplined and they make plays.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Saban is a great coach, but he is by no means perfect. He has flaws and can be defeated. I would not trade Muschamp for Saban.

Nor did I suggest that you should.

In fact, I think Coach Muschamp has the ability to possibly become an even better coach than Nicky. He is working out his own style, tempering how to be demanding of excellence in his own way, and in learning how to meet the needs of the players and mold them into better human beings . . . in the right way.

They are different persons, but their defensive philosophies are not that far apart, at least as much as I can tell.

I have decided that "hating" (in a college football, non-reality sense) on Saban anymore is foolish and a waste of time, and that he is actually due a great deal of rival respect for his engineering and organizational abilities, and generalship. I am still suspect of his underlying methodologies and do not know whether his character is worthy of respect (unlike our Coach, who I think does have strongly formed principles of character).

But I am talking about Sun Tzu type of adversarial respect -nothing more - for the purpose of study and analysis, and all for the ultimate purpose of defeat.

[gatorr4life]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

Muschamp's a defensive coach--and we saw our defense make tremendous improvements in year 2. It went from a good unit to a dominate unit able to win the field position battle and not give up too many points. Talented defensive players (Roberson and Purifoy and McCray) went from "potential" to production. Additionally, in his first real recruiting class, Muschamp got a number of highly talented defensive recruits--many of whom were able to play right away (Morrison, Fowler, and Bullard are the obvious ones). Taken together, you can't argue that Muschamp is lacking in the player development department...at least when it comes to the defensive side of the ball.

As for the offensive side of the ball--Muschamp has pretty clearly given wide deference to the OC...hiring experienced coaches in the two seasons he's been here. Weis was a nice temporary splash and most of us applauded the move at the time--but in fairness to Muschamp, Weis never been good at developing talent at the college level and we did need to act quickly.

Pease has made a nice difference--and I think almost everyone could acknowledge we improved on our OL from last year to this year, but the offense as a whole was still hampered by inexperience (new starter in Driskel), injuries along the OL during the middle part of the season, and problems at the WR position (lack of experienced playmakers and lack of a position coach). Another full offseason and a full recruiting cycle and then we'll have a bit more basis to judge how effective he is at player development, but the signs are encouraging.

Excellent post.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Nor did I suggest that you should.

In fact, I think Coach Muschamp has the ability to possibly become an even better coach than Nicky. He is working out his own style, tempering how to be demanding of excellence in his own way, and in learning how to meet the needs of the players and mold them into better human beings . . . in the right way.

They are different persons, but their defensive philosophies are not that far apart, at least as much as I can tell.

I have decided that "hating" (in a college football, non-reality sense) on Saban anymore is foolish and a waste of time, and that he is actually due a great deal of rival respect for his engineering and organizational abilities, and generalship. I am still suspect of his underlying methodologies and do not know whether his character is worthy of respect (unlike our Coach, who I think does have strongly formed principles of character).

But I am talking about Sun Tzu type of adversarial respect -nothing more - for the purpose of study and analysis, and all for the ultimate purpose of defeat.

Yes of course, and agreed that the ultimate object is to conquer and humiliate Saban rather than to worship him humbly from a respectful distance.

[AFCyberGator]

In addition to skills in coaching, recruiting, and managing, Nick Saban has more time and experience on his side compared to Will Muschamp. With time he has built up a stable of coaches, assistants, football analysts, strength and conditioning coaches, nutritionists, graduate assistants as well as a lot of political influence. The best thing that happened to him was that the Alabama athletic department gave Saban absolute control over the program. He also has some additional factors in his favor: he is master of a very rabid fanbase, has a pretty good alumni support base, he has a good rapport with referees, he has connections to the NFL, and he must be good poker buddies with the Tuscaloosa police department.

Will Muschamp's time and experience and he might get up to Saban's level, but while Muschamp is at Florida he will still be missing the ability to have absolute control over his football program. He does not strike me as a political type that will win over the hearts and minds of the referees. Gainesville and Alachua County police do not "support the team" as well as the Tuscaloosa police. The Florida fanbase seems to be a bit more fickle than Alabama's. Many of the Florida alumni are moving away from the Southeast and supporting the program less. Can Will Muschamp overcome these factors? We shall see.

[rserina]

Kind of weird to say that in his second season as a head coach you can tell Muschamp doesn't develop players as well as a Saban, who is in his 17th season (I believe) as a head coach, especially given that our defense went from solid to extraordinary in his second year, Gillislee exploded during his second year after being lost on the depth chart, the offensive line became a dominant run blocking unit, and the team as a whole went 11-2 despite a sophomore quarterback who came to campus woefully unprepared to play his position and a brand new offensive coordinator and system in as many seasons.

As I recall, Saban didn't "develop" his kids that much at LSU, either. He recruited the lights out, but they were up and down from year to year, even within the year, much owing to kids who simply weren't ready to play at times. I honestly think Les Miles has done a much better job of player development than Saban did there, which is why they stay so darn consistent under him, but his decision-making and recruiting are well behind Saban's.