So next elections when the Republicans again run on "lowering taxes"

[QGator2414]

And I agree our system is inefficient. With the government being the definition of the most inefficient part...

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

That's not my point at all. As long as people think the state can make good on an IOU in the future, there's no reason to question the debt. But crippling debt or self-inflicted wounds would put that into question anyway. If spending becomes critical, it will either be addressed, or the country will fail. Panic over the debt for "future generations" seems pointless to me, other than as a means to achieve certain policy ends in the present.

Awesome. No reason to question the debt as long as we get ours. This is why we have screwed every generation since 1937 with SS. Because ere is no reason to question getting more than one paid...

I feel for our kids and I am sorry we have people that think there is no reason to question our debt because the state can make them pay for it one day. Or of course you can revolt...

[QGator2414]

There is no debt crisis people. The fed has QEi rolling right now so do not worry what we leave out kids...

But remember we can set up a situation where revolt is a better option than the inflation and debt we leave you...

[bluelang]

Things we learned:

1) most of you would, in fact, vote for someone who promised "lower taxes" even though you know damn well it just means "more deficit"
2) wgbgator is a smart dude with a forgettable user name

[DeanMeadGator]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Its easy to run on cutting spending, which people like in abstract. Everyone runs on cutting unecessary spending, D & R. What people don't like is specifics on what gets cut, because it turns out people do find that spending necessary.

It clearly appears that a huge number of people are more concerned about not giving up anything than the result on their children [we have 3] and grandchildren [we have 6].

I would willingly give up something if I was assured that what I give up will not be spent on another inane and wasteful government program or for another wasteful government expense. I am not in favor of the further erosion of the economic well-being of future generations based on our unwillingness to stop spending as if there will be no tomorrow.

To reduce or not to reduce the deficit - that is the question. The answer [and actions or inactions taken in accordance with the answer] will have major impacts on our country and future generations of Americans.

[DeanMeadGator]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Things we learned:

1) most of you would, in fact, vote for someone who promised "lower taxes" even though you know damn well it just means "more deficit"
2) wgbgator is a smart dude with a forgettable user name

Calculate the yearly interest accrual on $16 trillion of debt. Deduct therefrom the additional tax revenue for that same year. Apply resulting surplus [if any] to additional spending that year. Calculate increase in deficit that year.

Someone please calculate the daily interest accrual on $16 trillion of debt [assume a 3% interest rate].

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

How do you suppose the government pay for millions (100's of millions at that) more to get healthcare if it takes over for us? It has proven it cannot and does not have the will to control costs already...

We already spend enough government money on health care to do the job. We wouldn't need to increase government spending on health care.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by philnotfil

We already spend enough government money on health care to do the job. We wouldn't need to increase government spending on health care.

Indeed we do. And will soon spend a lot more under ObamaCare.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by philnotfil

We already spend enough government money on health care to do the job. We wouldn't need to increase government spending on health care.

I am confused. If we go single payer then all of a sudden the thousands of dollars I spend on healthcare each year for my family and our employees (not to mention what they spend that insurance does not cover) will be picked up by what entity?

Is this single payer thing not government?

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Indeed we do. And will soon spend a lot more under ObamaCare.

That is just it. We are about to spend an extra trillion assuming you think the government can accurately calculate the cost (how did Medicare work out for us?)...

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Indeed we do. And will soon spend a lot more under ObamaCare.

Which is why we should have skipped that and gone straight to single payer.

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

I am confused. If we go single payer then all of a sudden the thousands of dollars I spend on healthcare each year for my family and our employees (not to mention what they spend that insurance does not cover) will be picked up by what entity?

Is this single payer thing not government?

Right now we have a bastardized hybrid system that is inefficient and wasteful. A single payer system is much more efficient and much less wasteful. So much so that many countries with a single payer system covering all of their citizens pay less per capita than we currently do despite our not covering even a majority of our citizens.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by philnotfil

Which is why we should have skipped that and gone straight to single payer.

Why? Because our Federal Government has shown it can control costs and improve service in a competitive industry?

My goodness.

I am an older man and probably should favor single payer. But I just can't get my mind around it, when there are plenty of examples in other countries where it does not work very well.

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Why? Because our Federal Government has shown it can control costs and improve service in a competitive industry?

My goodness.

I am an older man and probably should favor single payer. But I just can't get my mind around it, when there are plenty of examples in other countries where it does not work very well.

It could be that us Americans are too stupid to make it work when so many other countries are getting better health care for less under a single payer system, but I like to think that we could figure out how to make it work if they can.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by philnotfil

Right now we have a bastardized hybrid system that is inefficient and wasteful. A single payer system is much more efficient and much less wasteful. So much so that many countries with a single payer system covering all of their citizens pay less per capita than we currently do despite our not covering even a majority of our citizens.

It is inefficient and wasteful because the government is incapable of controlling cost and mandates we cover things like birth control now...

If we could get government out of the way the private sector could take care of the inefficiencies. I prefer to be able to start treatment tomorrow if diagnosed with something like cancer or the need of bypass surgery...

Sadly we are headed to corporate volume based medicine...

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

It is inefficient and wasteful because the government is incapable of controlling cost and mandates we cover things like birth control now...

If we could get government out of the way the private sector could take care of the inefficiencies. I prefer to be able to start treatment tomorrow if diagnosed with something like cancer or the need of bypass surgery...

Sadly we are headed to corporate volume based medicine...

How do you explain all of the single payer systems that provide better healthcare at lower costs?

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by philnotfil

How do you explain all of the single payer systems that provide better healthcare at lower costs?

How do you prove they provide better healthcare?

I like knowing my aunt was able to begin treatment the day after she was diagnosed with cancer a year ago...

[QGator2414]

We live in a country of people that treat their bodies like crap yet have phenomenal healthcare that is marred by government beauracracy....