Where does the ND hate come from?

[mulegator]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

Coming from Irish Catholic roots and having a sister go to ND (I was recruited by them in the sports I played--but ultimately made the wiser choice to go to Florida instead), I have seen a lot of the hate behind ND and most of it is either rank jealousy, thinly-veiled anti-Catholicism, or misplaced. I'm also aware of a lot of the history behind the school and it does help place certain misunderstandings in perspective for those among you who are capable of objective thought when addressing a subject who hate/dislike.

The first thing most people say when hating on ND usually goes along the lines of "why don't they join a conference??" Well, they would have in the early goings, but were blackballed by the Big 10 from joining--due to anti-Catholic bias and prejudice. They were forced to become independent--and forced to look at establishing games/rivalries with other schools in order to field a team.

Most people tend to accept that--but always follow up with: "well, why don't they join a conference now??" Again--the historical reasons above. When they were blackballed out of the Big 10, they established rivalries with a number of different football teams and were able to take on some of the nation's best. Dating back to the 1913 season, ND had always scheduled and played some of the nation's toughest teams. In 1913 (well before conference affiliations existed), ND took on Texas, Penn State, and Army (in those days one of the top teams)--and burst into national recognition by soundly beating Army with an innovative offense. As most people would do when they're excluded from a group, ND basically said "fine, we don't need the Big 10, we can make it on our own." And they did.

Now, if ND were to join a conference, they'd be forced to choose which rivals they want to keep and would have to discard others--including teams that they've faced on a regular basis since the 1920s and 30s and have decades worth of tradition playing. How do you think the Gator Nation would react to the media or opposing fans telling us to choose between playing f$u or UGA? Would we really care what others thought? Probably not.

Let's face it: ND has to have a national footprint because if they don't, then they can't sustain their program. It's not like northern Indiana is teeming with 5 star recruits...ND pretty much *has* to pull talent out of California, Texas, and Florida.

The other widely-strewn about criticism is their easy schedule. Admittedly, in recent years, it was fairly easy. But that has more to do with the fact many of their rivals (and traditionally good teams) have slipped themselves. The Big 10 used to be the nation's toughest or second-toughest conference. Ever since the 2000s came around, there was a noticeable decline in the Big 10--with other teams in the Midwest (like Pitt) also slipping. Hard to hold them responsible for other teams getting worse. Its not like we could control f$u sucking in the last 6-7 years of Bowden's reign, nor Tennessee's epic plunge in the last 8 years either.

And a note on ND playing the service academies: ND's history with playing Army dates back to the 1913 season...and Army was a national powerhouse up until the mid 1950s or so. Either way, hard to turn your back on a school that you have decades worth of tradition playing. The series with Navy started because ND was in troubled times during WWII with most of the nation's student-aged population involved in the war effort and few were enrolling in expensive private colleges. The university was considering shutting down for a few years as a result--but the Dept of the Navy stepped in and said they would open a NROTC program there to educate and house some of the Navy's officer candidates. That floated the university for the duration of the war and allowed them to stay open. A grateful ND said they'd play Navy in football for as long as they wanted. The NROTC program is still there...and so is the series with Navy.

Then..the fans. Arrogant, haughty, self-righteous, entitled, etc. Admittedly, a lot of ND fans are those things. Same with any winning program. As far as the "subway alumni" are concerned...that phrase originated in the 1920s and 30s when ND became an established national powerhouse during the golden age of radio. Keep in mind...anti-Catholic prejudice was very much alive and well in those days--and when ND won, it gave Catholics (regardless of which ethnicity they were) something to feel proud of. Most Catholics today identify with ND because the University has long been the nation's premier Catholic university...and the football team has adopted many Catholic prayers and traditions into their gameday routine.

Now, the media fawning and constant over-rating of ND is highly annoying to any neutral and something I can't really defend--but it represents the obvious: the media pandering to a larger audience. When ND's winning, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't care about football will pay attention. Same thing we saw last year when Tebow was winning and a LOT of evangelical Christians who probably had zero connection to the Broncos beforehand were tuning in--leading to the firestorm of media attention surrounding him that both haters and supporters listened to. The media hype wasn't Tebow's fault and it isn't ND's fault either...though it's admittedly the most annoying part of having them on the national scene.

I'm sure haters will ignore this--but hope it makes a difference for objective fans.

Thank you for your well-thought-out perspective. Excellent.

[hd80dun]

Originally Posted by pinecrestgator

I've been to two ND games(vs Mich and Mich st.) and IMO it was nothing compared to the Big Ten and SEC game day atmospheres I've been around. With that said, it's a tremendous campus and the fans were very cordial and classy.

It's a totally different kind of atmosphere, but ND is so much more than "atmosphere" that just comparing atmosphere's doesn't come close to describing it.

That said, the SEC is definitely more "fun" whereas ND is more jaw dropping. I'm sure it would lose some of the awe that was felt for a first-timer if I went again and again.

[G8RNTN]

Lou Holtz!!! And the other reason is Lou Holtz!!!

[sierragator]

Not a ND fan by any means but no one can match their history and tradition. That being said, I think what irks many is the perception that they get preferential treatment just because they are ND. That violates the sense of equity that many folks have.

On a smaller scale the BIG gets extra juice for what it did half a century ago....

[corneredbeast]

Experience. You have it, and understand, or you don't and post threads such as this one. If Bama loses, that understanding will be gained by the youngsters ITT.

Even if ND loses, myriad excuses will likely be made in their defense.

[cocodrilo]

We know whose side God is on. ND beat the Bear 4 out of 4. Now Bama is coached by Satan. In this year's Stanford and Pitt games the refs were angels in disguise. During the game I'm going to be watching for signs of divine intervention. I won't be surprised if Satan gets so mad that his head turns completely around.

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by swampsupreme

Is it their fans arrogance?

Is it the medias obsession with them?

Is it the sense of entitlement?

Is it getting things they have not earned?

Is it the media constantly fawning on them for things they did back in the 1930's?

Is it the fact that they haven't done much in over 40 years despite the constant attention they receive?

Is it that they are so often overrated in the offseason?

Is it that the media uses every excuse possible to ram them down our throats and when no excuse is available, they just manufacture one?

Is it that they alone get special treatment nobody else gets when it comes to getting into bowl games - most especially BCS bowl games they have no business being in leading to them getting their butts handed to them over and over and over again such that they have a lifetime LOSING bowl record (bet the mediots didn't tell you that little nugget of truth)?

Is it that they are supremely arrogant sticking their noses in the air and pretending to be "above it all" when they suck but in reality they would sacrifice their first sons for a return to their past glory - ie that they are really a win-at-all-costs football factory that has simply fallen on its face with a series of bad coaching hires?

FIFY

The correct answer is:

"Yes".

[Juggernautz]

My dislike comes from when someone called them America's team.

Go Bama.

[grayg8rstevo]

America's team? Really? NORTH OR SOUTH?
I thought that was the COWBOYS...? lol
Rev gave awesome perspective..
Those pesky facts.
As we have read, there are about 20 areas of discomfort.
ND gets shot at, justifiably, from many angles.
They feel the heat from many prejudices also.
at the lowest level, this is THE NORTH VS. THE SOUTH.
That is enough to root for BAMA.
woof...rooting for SATAN. He has the personality ( read..antisocial butt head ) to be an NFL COACH. The NFL chews up coaches . He would be stupid to go when the GUMPS have already raised an altar to the Demon god BAAL in his honor. And it has a covered practice field with it for good measure.lol

[lurkingator1]

where do I start , in the interest of keeping it breif there has always been a set of rules of the rest of College football and then there is Noter Dame the Darling for the Northen Media , Much like USC with the Hollywood Crowd on the west coast. They have their own Network for pete sake!

[wygator]

The reason ND was able to put together a record bowl losing streak was because of being perpetually overrated by the paparazzi media.

Even though they haven't been in the national championship picture, they've still been consistently ranked above their performance.

Everything earlier mentioned from the 50's 60's 70's. You have to acknowledge that part of the reason the media pampers is because, along with the service academies, they are about the only college team with a true national fan base due to being Catholic.

I'm not a "hater", but there are teams you like to see do well and teams you don't. ND is near the top of the second list for me.

[cmyers1964]

1) They have their own TV station.
2) They are media darlings no matter their record.
3) If you watched the 1992 Sugar Bowl, you would hate them too.

[wulimaster]

Seems like particularly in my childhood sports commentary was a fraternity into which one could hope to gain admission by demonstrating sycophancy to the Notre Dame legacy. I don’t hate Notre Dame per se. It’s a fine academic institution. I think I hate the cultural machine that works to prop up something like a Notre Dame football program in our society as something of a higher caste, to lift it up above reproach despite its common offenses thereby perpetuating its successes and helping immunize it against struggles a typical program experiences. You have to acknowledge that success does beget more success. It lines things up for you. But the extent to which the media sycophantically helped create the Notre Dame myth is appalling. Notre Dame is a myth to me and I don’t celebrate it.

[sgtfury]

Originally Posted by swampsupreme

Is it their fans arrogance?

Is it the medias obsession with them?

Just curious why ND is one of those teams if you're not a fan of them you hate them...


Thoughts?

Any order: 1) Gold Hemets 2) Catholic 3) recruiting base 7 continents

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by sgtfury

Any order: 1) Gold Hemets 2) Catholic 3) recruiting base 7 continents

Plenty of Catholics HATE them. How well have they ever recruited Louisiana? Its an overwhelmingly Catholic state. How about Texas? Lots of Catholics there....yet ND has never really been able to get their hooks into them. They have recruited the Midwest and Northeast well but it never translated to Dixie....and they have never had a big fan following in the South either. They are Midwestern through and through.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

Plenty of Catholics HATE them. How well have they ever recruited Louisiana? Its an overwhelmingly Catholic state. How about Texas? Lots of Catholics there....yet ND has never really been able to get their hooks into them. They have recruited the Midwest and Northeast well but it never translated to Dixie....and they have never had a big fan following in the South either. They are Midwestern through and through.

ND's main recruiting grounds are in the Midwest and California...but they've always pulled kids from Georgia and Florida too.

[gatorpa]

Lame schedule,
Media love because they were great when there were like 3 schools to go to 40-50 yrs ago.
"Too good for anybody" Attitude in not joing a conference.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

"Too good for anybody" Attitude in not joing a conference.

I see you didn't take the time to read any portion of my post.

If you want to focus on the conference bit and ignore the rest--the first two paragraphs sum it up.

Suffice it to say, your opinion is very much misguided about their attitude.

[born2beagator]

Day of reckoning is here. Come on bama, expose the Lucky Irish's season for the fluke it is.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

We know whose side God is on. ND beat the Bear 4 out of 4. Now Bama is coached by Satan. In this year's Stanford and Pitt games the refs were angels in disguise. During the game I'm going to be watching for signs of divine intervention. I won't be surprised if Satan gets so mad that his head turns completely around.

It would almost be worth ND winning to see Saban vomit pea soup!