Where does the ND hate come from?

[bzak24]

Good thread. I too am not a fan of ND and agree with most everything said on here. I will , however, add that until you have been on the ND campus, you can't form a entirely informed opinion.

I have a bucket list of sports, and about 3 years ago went to a game in south bend for no other reason than its prestige. I truly have to say that there is no other campus like it. There absolutely is something special about the school. Even though I still root against the team, I now see how spending time as a Student there would be life changing. I actually had the opportunity to visit again a year later (on a non football ) day, and its still very cool. I have been to 20 or 30 campuses , and no others even hold a candle. ( others I like are UVA, V tech, Alabama fwiw) . Just my two cents. I highly encourage y'all to someday check it out. Go bama Monday, go gators always

[FriendlyGator]

How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.

----

I'm not going to explain them all, others have done that, but the one that pisses me off the most is that there are legions of Catholics who really believe that program holds a special place in God's heart. For them, Notre Dame is to football as Israel is to modern states. The chosen ones. I grew up with quite a few Catholic friends, a lot who were like that. Some of them are Gator grads and Gator fans--but their loyalty to Notre Dame is greater. When we played in the Sugar Bowl after the 1991 season they rooted for Notre Dame.

This is not just an "outsiders" view. A few of my Catholic friends, ones who are not that way, acknowledge that many Catholics think the way I have described.

[nflgator]

I don't hate ND, but i agree with most of the above.
Did ND win a game the year that Hornung won the Heisman trophy?
The real winner was the RB from Tn.

The ND bias, Refs & press is the same process that kept Bama from winning 3 NC's in a row. ND & Michigan State were named co-champions that year. Check it out.
I have watched Football for 55 years.

[gator07]

I know a lot of people hate Notre dame simply because of over exposure by the media. It's an easy trap to fall into but it's lazy. It's not their fault. Direct your hatred where it belongs - espn and co. There are so many people that hate Tebow for the same reason. He didn't ask for any of it.

[og8trz]

My name is as Irish as it can be, yet, since childhood, I have despised them for the arrogance of the whole group, the undeserved preferential treatment they receive and exception to rules.

My dislike began with Hornung winning the Heisman over Johnny Majors. Holtz cheated at every stop including ND. The NCAA would have launched am investigation of most any school after the publishing a book like Under the Tarnished Dome.

In the interest of full disclosure, I rooted hard for them in 1993 against F$U!

[Tebowism0823]

My hate comes from the pit of my stomach. Oh and the way Lou Holtz thinks they are unbeatable even though they haven't done anything since I was just a lad

[gatorev12]

Coming from Irish Catholic roots and having a sister go to ND (I was recruited by them in the sports I played--but ultimately made the wiser choice to go to Florida instead), I have seen a lot of the hate behind ND and most of it is either rank jealousy, thinly-veiled anti-Catholicism, or misplaced. I'm also aware of a lot of the history behind the school and it does help place certain misunderstandings in perspective for those among you who are capable of objective thought when addressing a subject who hate/dislike.

The first thing most people say when hating on ND usually goes along the lines of "why don't they join a conference??" Well, they would have in the early goings, but were blackballed by the Big 10 from joining--due to anti-Catholic bias and prejudice. They were forced to become independent--and forced to look at establishing games/rivalries with other schools in order to field a team.

Most people tend to accept that--but always follow up with: "well, why don't they join a conference now??" Again--the historical reasons above. When they were blackballed out of the Big 10, they established rivalries with a number of different football teams and were able to take on some of the nation's best. Dating back to the 1913 season, ND had always scheduled and played some of the nation's toughest teams. In 1913 (well before conference affiliations existed), ND took on Texas, Penn State, and Army (in those days one of the top teams)--and burst into national recognition by soundly beating Army with an innovative offense. As most people would do when they're excluded from a group, ND basically said "fine, we don't need the Big 10, we can make it on our own." And they did.

Now, if ND were to join a conference, they'd be forced to choose which rivals they want to keep and would have to discard others--including teams that they've faced on a regular basis since the 1920s and 30s and have decades worth of tradition playing. How do you think the Gator Nation would react to the media or opposing fans telling us to choose between playing f$u or UGA? Would we really care what others thought? Probably not.

Let's face it: ND has to have a national footprint because if they don't, then they can't sustain their program. It's not like northern Indiana is teeming with 5 star recruits...ND pretty much *has* to pull talent out of California, Texas, and Florida.

The other widely-strewn about criticism is their easy schedule. Admittedly, in recent years, it was fairly easy. But that has more to do with the fact many of their rivals (and traditionally good teams) have slipped themselves. The Big 10 used to be the nation's toughest or second-toughest conference. Ever since the 2000s came around, there was a noticeable decline in the Big 10--with other teams in the Midwest (like Pitt) also slipping. Hard to hold them responsible for other teams getting worse. Its not like we could control f$u sucking in the last 6-7 years of Bowden's reign, nor Tennessee's epic plunge in the last 8 years either.

And a note on ND playing the service academies: ND's history with playing Army dates back to the 1913 season...and Army was a national powerhouse up until the mid 1950s or so. Either way, hard to turn your back on a school that you have decades worth of tradition playing. The series with Navy started because ND was in troubled times during WWII with most of the nation's student-aged population involved in the war effort and few were enrolling in expensive private colleges. The university was considering shutting down for a few years as a result--but the Dept of the Navy stepped in and said they would open a NROTC program there to educate and house some of the Navy's officer candidates. That floated the university for the duration of the war and allowed them to stay open. A grateful ND said they'd play Navy in football for as long as they wanted. The NROTC program is still there...and so is the series with Navy.

Then..the fans. Arrogant, haughty, self-righteous, entitled, etc. Admittedly, a lot of ND fans are those things. Same with any winning program. As far as the "subway alumni" are concerned...that phrase originated in the 1920s and 30s when ND became an established national powerhouse during the golden age of radio. Keep in mind...anti-Catholic prejudice was very much alive and well in those days--and when ND won, it gave Catholics (regardless of which ethnicity they were) something to feel proud of. Most Catholics today identify with ND because the University has long been the nation's premier Catholic university...and the football team has adopted many Catholic prayers and traditions into their gameday routine.

Now, the media fawning and constant over-rating of ND is highly annoying to any neutral and something I can't really defend--but it represents the obvious: the media pandering to a larger audience. When ND's winning, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't care about football will pay attention. Same thing we saw last year when Tebow was winning and a LOT of evangelical Christians who probably had zero connection to the Broncos beforehand were tuning in--leading to the firestorm of media attention surrounding him that both haters and supporters listened to. The media hype wasn't Tebow's fault and it isn't ND's fault either...though it's admittedly the most annoying part of having them on the national scene.

I'm sure haters will ignore this--but hope it makes a difference for objective fans.

[DuPontGator]

Anyone got the highlights of that long post?

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by DuPontGator

Anyone got the highlights of that long post?

I have every confidence that a Gator could read it

[DuPontGator]

Lazy Sunday. Sorry lol

[hd80dun]

Originally Posted by bzak24

Good thread. I too am not a fan of ND and agree with most everything said on here. I will , however, add that until you have been on the ND campus, you can't form a entirely informed opinion.

I have a bucket list of sports, and about 3 years ago went to a game in south bend for no other reason than its prestige. I truly have to say that there is no other campus like it. There absolutely is something special about the school. Even though I still root against the team, I now see how spending time as a Student there would be life changing. I actually had the opportunity to visit again a year later (on a non football ) day, and its still very cool. I have been to 20 or 30 campuses , and no others even hold a candle. ( others I like are UVA, V tech, Alabama fwiw) . Just my two cents. I highly encourage y'all to someday check it out. Go bama Monday, go gators always

I agree 100%. My brother is a diehard ND fan and he convinced me years ago to spend a few days up there for a huge football game and there is absolutely nothing in the country like it. The only thing that Florida had over them, and he was the first to admit it, was that The Swamp was MUCH louder.

It was incredible. Many of the traditions were later brought to Florida by Urban Meyer (an ex-ND coach) such as the Gator walk. But the campus was second to none and not filled with fans in the days leading up to the game. I walked all over it and went into most of the building and attended "club" sporting events and and talked with many people and even priests (all my brother's doing) and I was just in awe of the place.

It was then that my anti-ND feelings began to fade and I realized that they were all based on jealousy or envy. "ND gets ..." Like "ND gets all the breaks," "ND gets all the media attention," "ND gets a special BCS bid" and on and on.

That didn't change all that much, lol, but I at least realized that I wouldn't feel the same way if Florida got such things. I just didn't like how "another team" got them. The "hatred" for ND is like the hatred for the Yankees or Lakers/Celtics, etc. It's mostly envy. I hate the Yankees but even that has softened a ton since my trip to ND and I now have more of a reluctant admiration for their history though I still I hope they lose every game badly.

One other thing, on game day and the night before with the rally, that place was something like Disney World. The pageantry and so much more was mind blowing and the game itself was an incredible game.

[G8R8U2]

I used to like ND when I was younger, and followed them as one of the non-SEC teams I liked; but like others have said, years of egregious bias and preferential treatment, combined with the pompous fans actually trying to justify it has turned me off.

I also find it funny that their fans try to bash SEC schedules and our tune-up opponents, simply because they schedule mostly DI opponents from "major" conferences, when most SEC schedules are ranked more difficult than theirs in the SOS rankings every year, and many of the lame DI doormats they do play are often worse teams than the Sun Belt and C-USA teams we play as tune-ups.

[GatorSean]

Their fans are like an awful mix between the ignorance and delusion of f$u fans, the arrogance of Bama fans, and the obnoxiousness of scUM fans.

[gtr2x]

Originally Posted by swampsupreme

l. I respect their program because they have good academics and their clean

You must have missed the Lou holtz years at Notre same. If it makes you feel any better the media seems to overlook their recruiting practices during those years also.

[AndyGator]

I could not stand them back in the 70s and 80s when they received constant attention and undeserved recognition. I actually don't mind them so much now.

[secgator]

^^^ the media overlooked because.....

....they ARE Notre Dame. The chosen ones.

Reason enough to hope they get pummeled, embarressed, humiliated, driven down, dirt stomped, total and complete annihilation every single game they play or ever will play.

Screw ND.

[gymgator]

I will admit, I didn't read the first 3 pages, but for me, it is ONLY fan arrogance. Outstanding academic school, I am Irish, great program history, aside from being a private school and in Indiana I would be a huge ND fan...but to talk to their fans, when a decade of sucking couldn't bring on an once of humility, nothing will.

I actually hope the beat AL, just because I don't want AL to win 3 in 4 years...because we couldn't...damn 2009 team...one win away from college football immortality.

[pinecrestgator]

This sums it up for me. At least bama is one of us.

http://deadspin.com/5963736/the-hate...-to-notre-dame

You're gonna hear a lot about Notre Dame over the next month or so, particularly from media types like Tony Kornheiser who have spent the past 20 years holding back a collective tidal wave of jism, waiting for the program to return to prominence so that they can declare how good it is for college football that Notre Dame is good again. The idea that Notre Dame serves as an EKG monitor for the overall health of college football is a lie, of course. Notre Dame has sucked for decades, while college football has been growing and thriving (and will finally realize its full potential in 2014 when a national playoff begins) over the same span. Whether or not the Irish stumble their way through a handful of wins against shitty service academies to find themselves in the national title game has nothing to do with it.

Because the truth is that Notre Dame is the college football team for people who don't like college football. They're a novelty, a program designed to capture the attention of casual casual casual casual college football fans—New York-media types who believe that something is relevant only when they've deigned to pay attention to it. These are the people who say they're rooting for Notre Dame because "they're a great story," which is what you say when you're a front-running douchebag.

For the Notre Dame enthusiasts, the massive, rabid fanbases littering the SEC may as well not exist. Those schools are a provincial matter. The success and regional popularity of teams like Alabama are a constant to be taken for granted, but Notre Dame being good is something SPECIAL, something far more meaningful than your routine LSU national title. That's an SEC school, right? Where are they located? Bob Costas totally forgot.

[petro]

All the hate derives from the birth control controversy.

Next question.

[pinecrestgator]

Originally Posted by hd80dun

I agree 100%. My brother is a diehard ND fan and he convinced me years ago to spend a few days up there for a huge football game and there is absolutely nothing in the country like it. The only thing that Florida had over them, and he was the first to admit it, was that The Swamp was MUCH louder.

It was incredible. Many of the traditions were later brought to Florida by Urban Meyer (an ex-ND coach) such as the Gator walk. But the campus was second to none and not filled with fans in the days leading up to the game. I walked all over it and went into most of the building and attended "club" sporting events and and talked with many people and even priests (all my brother's doing) and I was just in awe of the place.

It was then that my anti-ND feelings began to fade and I realized that they were all based on jealousy or envy. "ND gets ..." Like "ND gets all the breaks," "ND gets all the media attention," "ND gets a special BCS bid" and on and on.

That didn't change all that much, lol, but I at least realized that I wouldn't feel the same way if Florida got such things. I just didn't like how "another team" got them. The "hatred" for ND is like the hatred for the Yankees or Lakers/Celtics, etc. It's mostly envy. I hate the Yankees but even that has softened a ton since my trip to ND and I now have more of a reluctant admiration for their history though I still I hope they lose every game badly.

One other thing, on game day and the night before with the rally, that place was something like Disney World. The pageantry and so much more was mind blowing and the game itself was an incredible game.

I've been to two ND games(vs Mich and Mich st.) and IMO it was nothing compared to the Big Ten and SEC game day atmospheres I've been around. With that said, it's a tremendous campus and the fans were very cordial and classy.