Will Muschamp: "We got outcoached and outplayed"

[GatorSean]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

And what else did they give up? Again I think you have a warped sense of what a bad defense is.

Sure the lack of punts were a major bad mark. But personally I think yards and points are a better barometer than punts. And we did okay, if not fine, on both of those fronts.

We did significantly better on defense than both USC and Georgia for example. The difference is that those teams have offenses.

Well, Louisville kept the ball so long they only had three series the entire first half.


2nd half went like this-


Louisville 1st series
1 play 34 yards, TD


2nd series
3 plays 22 yards, missed FG. (First good defensive series in the game).


3rd series
13 plays 54 yards, 7+ minutes, blocked FG (again, terrible defense, but we got bailed out by special teams).


4th series
Int (2nd good defensive series in the game).


5th series
10 plays, 60 yards, 6+ minutes, FG.


6th series
3 plays 4 yards, PUNT!


7th series
took a knee


Sorry, I'm just not seeing anything less than a terrible defensive effort here. I mean, their 3rd and 5th series ate almost an entire quarter off of the clock. The defense HAS to get off the field. And I don't want to hear that they were tired, because as you've pointed out, they were even worse in the beginning of the game.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Our defense played very poorly last night. I'm not sure how anyone could deny that.

Did the offense out-stink them? Yes, they did. But both sides still stunk. The only thing we did well was stopping the run. That's it. If they weren't running, we didn't get pressure, we gave the receivers tons of room, missed tackles ...

It wasn't a good game for anyone but the Cardinals.

Very poorly relative to what? Go down the line of bowl games this year and compare our defenses to others. I guarantee you our performance was average at best. We were significantly better than LSU and Georgia. Definitely better than USC. Arguably better than MSU. And on par with Vandy.

What would you have predicted at 7pm last night if someone told you we'd have a pick 6, TO on the 2 and a special teams blunder down to the 20? How many points allowed would you have predicted? Probably high 20s, low 30s right? Which is exactly what happened

And we only gave up 350 yards, that is not a bad total. Look at other teams.

The only downside is they couldn't get off the field. But they didn't yield many yards or many points given their circumstances

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

Well, Louisville kept the ball so long they only had three series the entire first half.

2nd half went like this-

Louisville 1st series
1 play 34 yards, TD

2nd series
3 plays 22 yards, missed FG. (First good defensive series in the game).

3rd series
13 plays 54 yards, 7+ minutes, blocked FG (again, terrible defense, but we got bailed out by special teams).

4th series
Int (2nd good defensive series in the game).

5th series
10 plays, 60 yards, 6+ minutes, FG.

6th series
3 plays 4 yards, PUNT!

7th series
took a knee

Sorry, I'm just not seeing anything less than a terrible defensive effort here. I mean, their 3rd and 5th series ate almost an entire quarter off of the clock. The defense HAS to get off the field. And I don't want to hear that they were tired, because as you've pointed out, they were even worse in the beginning of the game.

Some of your plays were off. Yes they didn't get off the field, but they didn't yield a lot of yards or points. Isn't that the whole freaking point?

And we had 62 plays they had 73. So lets not act like we didn't have the ball similar to them.

We gave up 336 yards and 23 first downs. And the defense can only be blamed for 16 points. What the heck do you expect? Seriously, what numbers do you want to see? If that is bad, what is average? 250/17/10? What's good? 175/10/3? Come on. That isn't realistic at all.

FYI Nebraska had 83 plays, nearly 450 yards of offense, 26 first downs and 31 points (although I think there was a pick 6).

Clemson had 32 first downs, 105 plays, 445 yards and 25 points.

THAT is bad. Perspective please.

[RayGator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

Well when you have players openly declaring for the draft directly after the game it kinda says something. I was concerned as soon as the bowl selection was done.

Exactly right. Their focus was not on this Bowl Game. It was on the NFL and they no doubt spent too much time in December reading their press clippings. And now after their horrendous performance to #21 Louisville in the Sugar Bowl they think they are ready for pro ball? Prediction, they won't go nearly as high as think they will because as usual every year the NFL actually takes Seniors! What a shocker that will be!

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Very poorly relative to what? Go down the line of bowl games this year and compare our defenses to others. I guarantee you our performance was average at best.

That's a really odd way to judge our team. Unless those other teams were playing Louisville, I don't understand that comparison.

We gave up 29% more yardage than we normally did, and that includes all of the time Louisville ate off the clock. Does that put is in line with UGA, LSU and USC? Yes. What does that mean? That we all performed poorly. We're not grading on a curve here.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by MR_FLORIDA

Muschamp = not a great HEAD coach. we will need an offensive GENIUS to get us to a championship.

Did you says this after LSU/USCe/FSU?

Just curious

[GataBaitx3]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

Louisville was like 90 percent 3rd down conversions I dont know how you blame that on the offense. Jeff does needs to grow as a QB there is no excuse next year.

Well put. It's a damn shame the year we had had to end like that.

In all kinds of weather...

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

The D didn't break?

Louisville's FIRST offensive drive went 12 plays for 83 yards, took 6+ minutes and resulted in a TD. That is BREAKING, not bending.

Louisville SECOND offensive drive went 12 plays for 66 yards took 6+ minutes and resulted in a FG. Better than a touch down, but they still had a long drive that resulted in a score. That's not 'bending'.

Louisville THIRD offensive drive went 8 plays for 54 yards took 4 minutes and resulted in another TD. Again, that's BREAKING.

We didn't force a punt until half way through the 4th Quarter. Yes, that is REALLY BAD defense. I don't think our standards are too high if we think the defense should force at least a couple of punts per half.

Game, Set, Match

[Dreamliner]

Maybe we just don't match up well against Big East teams. We played like we were afraid of Louisville.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

That's a really odd way to judge our team. Unless those other teams were playing Louisville, I don't understand that comparison.

We gave up 29% more yardage than we normally did, and that includes all of the time Louisville ate off the clock. Does that put is in line with UGA, LSU and USC? Yes. What does that mean? That we all performed poorly. We're not grading on a curve here.

Yes, we played bad relative to ourselves, which still compared to other teams we played fine. Relative to peers is key.

Performance comparisons need to be done on a relative basis. That is a whole new thread if you don't understand why that is.

Relative to self: use it for improvement evaluation and what went wrong

Relative to peers: evaluation on how good you actually are.

You can't penalize the defense for being great. Expectations are WAY too high. I can't bash a unit when their bad game is still average compared to their peers.

[MastaG8r]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Very poorly relative to what? Go down the line of bowl games this year and compare our defenses to others. I guarantee you our performance was average at best. We were significantly better than LSU and Georgia. Definitely better than USC. Arguably better than MSU. And on par with Vandy.

What would you have predicted at 7pm last night if someone told you we'd have a pick 6, TO on the 2 and a special teams blunder down to the 20? How many points allowed would you have predicted? Probably high 20s, low 30s right? Which is exactly what happened

And we only gave up 350 yards, that is not a bad total. Look at other teams.

The only downside is they couldn't get off the field. But they didn't yield many yards or many points given their circumstances

For the life of me I can't understand how anyone can be defending last night's defensive performance like this. And like last night's performance, the game plan for making this argument is as bad as the execution of it.

Defending the defense by saying they were "average at best" compared to how other teams played in bowls? Yeah but...how many of those teams were ranked #3 in the BCS?

Sure, I'm sure we've all seen even worse defensive play. I think the concern being expressed by some of us is that the D was exposed as overrated and that our 11-2 record and #3 ranking might not be indicative of the true quality of our team. So when you defend the defense by saying they were "average at best," you're pretty much agreeing with that. They were the strength of our team all year but if it turns out that they are only average, then we're really not as good as we were cracked up to be, right?

You ask, "Very poorly relative to what?" Very poorly relative to where we need to be if we want to contend for championships!

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by LAGatorDoc

The funny thing is we looked great on 1st and 2nd down. But it was like we were confused on 3rd down and didn't know what we were doing

They had our defense figured out completely. They even spotted us 2 yards on every first down by running for a two yard loss...and they still converted all night.
We got outcoached, pure and simple.

[Nicho]

Originally Posted by MR_FLORIDA

Muschamp = not a great HEAD coach. we will need an offensive GENIUS to get us to a championship.

It's funny that this post would appear after we just got smacked around by a defensive guru-turned-head coach.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by RayGator

Exactly right. Their focus was not on this Bowl Game. It was on the NFL and they no doubt spent too much time in December reading their press clippings. And now after their horrendous performance to #21 Louisville in the Sugar Bowl they think they are ready for pro ball? Prediction, they won't go nearly as high as think they will because as usual every year the NFL actually takes Seniors! What a shocker that will be!

Turns out that the players who had already declared played the best games. The coaches should probably have told all the players, "Contract game!"

[Bushmaster]

A pick 6, fumble recover at the 2, onside kick with 30 yards of penalties tacked on and Louisville at our 19, and an interception in the endzone.

We can safely conclude the following:

Pick 6 = 7 points

Fumble at the 2 = 7 points

Onside kick+penalties = 3 points minimum (I think they scored 7 on that?)

Pick 6 in endzone = 3 points minimum

That adds up to a 20 point swing, possibly a 28 point swing.

Oh yeah, none of that is on the defense.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Yes, we played bad relative to ourselves, which still compared to other teams we played fine. Relative to peers is key.

That makes no sense, sorry.

And even so, I watched LSU, USC and UGA play. They were far more focused, far less sloppy in whole.

[wiene2003]

I am very disappointed in the players and coaches performance last night, but I think some people are forgetting what the expectations were for this team at the beginning of the season. I don't see how anyone can doubt Muschamp, yet. I see many people (not just in this thread) conflicting themselves in their criticism of him. On one hand they say we are missing so many ingredients and we just aren't a championship caliber team and then they usually go on to say how we just overachieved this season... Well isn't that an argument for him doing an excellent coaching job? I think so. He did more with less than almost any other coach in the country. He far exceeded expectations and overachieved this season. One bad game doesn't make a coach, they all have them, even the great ones. I don't know if he will reach Spurrier's or Meyer's level but I think we have a good one on our hands and he has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO.

[GatorAvatar]

Originally Posted by ApexNC

I don't understand. The title of the thread quotes Muschamp saying "We got outcoached and outplayed." How can you say the problem never has and never will be with the coach when he admitted himself that he got out coached? I'm not in the fire Muschamp camp, but come on....he has to take at least some of the blame, doesn't he?

What he is trying to say is Urban Meyer left the cupboard bare. Joke.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

That makes no sense, sorry.

And even so, I watched LSU, USC and UGA play. They were far more focused, far less sloppy in whole.

And their defenses played far worse. Your analysis is way off if you are basing it on what you consider focus and not the actual results on the field.

I prefer numbers rather than gut feelings.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

And their defenses played far worse.

A matter for debate, but still entirely irrelevant.

Your analysis is way off if you are basing it on what you consider focus and not the actual results on the field.

I prefer numbers rather than gut feelings.

I also prefer numbers. Our numbers in a bowl game versus our other numbers. This gives us a relative indication of our performance. The USC, UGA, LSU games have absolutely no bearing on that.