A couple of questions about stats

[your_perfect_enemy]

These are a couple of scenarios I've never been sure about how stats are counted so I figured I'd throw them out here, sorry if these are basic.

How are shot attempts handled when the shooter is fouled? If he makes it it's obviously an attempt and make but if he misses and gets two free throws is it just considered no shot?

What all is counted When a player (I'm watching Jo, which sparked this question) tips a missed shot back at his own basket? I assume it's a shot attempt? Does he get a rebound as well for each tip?

[corpgator]

Miss and get free throws: no shot.

Put back on your own shot: 1 of 2 field goals and 1 offensive rebound. When there's several put back attempts, just add 1 to the attempts category and 1 to O rebound for each subsequent put back try.

Thus, it's important to count possessions and not shots. When someone says Player X scored 30 points on 20 shots, that is basically meaningless.

[ugaGator]

What if there's a blocked shot which goes into the hands of the defender. Is that both a blocked shot and a steal?

Or what did they count Pat Young's block/rebound/steal from last year against FSU?

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by ugaGator

What if there's a blocked shot which goes into the hands of the defender. Is that both a blocked shot and a steal?

Or what did they count Pat Young's block/rebound/steal from last year against FSU?

I believe it is a blocked shot and a rebound. I think the logic is you get a rebound not a steal if you rebound an air ball. Basically the block turns that shot into an air ball and you get a rebound for controlling it.

[themistocles]

Excellent questions Perfect.

So, in other words, if you are trying to set a rebound record, and you are 7'9" tall, all you have to do is keep tapping the ball of the backboard back to yourself several times each game to garner around 50 rebounds in a single game.

Although I don't agree that if a player scores 30 points on 20 shots that is meaningless (of course, there is an obvious difference between 10 3s or 15 2s), as a statistician, I well know that all forms of statistics necessarily have inherent limitations, which are, unfortunately, usually not considered by almost all (a good technical paper always contains a well-thought out Limitations section).

This also makes it clear that a bias in calling fouls on shots is quite beneficial to the teach receiving more foul shots. Say, like Arizona against the Gators, or Duke against almost everyone.

[corpgator]

Yes, once a ball is shot, if the outcome is a miss, then a rebound is recorded, regardless if it gets blocked, goes out of bound etc. They will record a team rebound for whichever team gains possession once it goes out unless someone had it then turned it over.

I say that the whole 30 points on 20 shots is meaningless because of the multitude of different configurations.

It could be 10-20 with 10-10 freethrows, and 5 turnovers. That's 30 possessions. Whereas someone hitting 10 3's with no turnovers did it truly on 20 possessions. That's a huge difference.

Take this line: 5-5 field goals, all 2's, no free throws, 5 offensive rebounds, 0 turnovers.

How many possessions did that player use? Zero, because the shots he rebounded used the possession and everything from there on is gravy. That's also why field goal % is misleading if you don't account for offensive rebounds.

This is also how you get points per possession and offensive efficiency rating.

[InstiGATOR1]

A new question about stats arose to me at least in the Air Force game today. I can think of a couple of permutations of this question:

1. If you block a shot as Young did today and a teammate fouls the shooter, do you get a blocked shot? Certainly the block still has value as it prevents a potential 3/4 point play.

2. Does it change if you block the shot and commit the foul? Again there is still value in the blocked shot.

[ReggieNelson]

no block shot will be recorded as there was a shooting foul committed on the play

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by ReggieNelson

no block shot will be recorded as there was a shooting foul committed on the play

That is what I thought and I think it is a bad official scoring rule. The block like all blocks potentially reduces the number of baskets the opposition makes.

I guess part of the counter argument is that the offensive player does not have a shot counted against his total on such a play and having a blocked shot but no shot taken would be odd too.