Gun Control

[Dreamliner]

It's true. People with concealed carry permits just drop their guns on the sidewalk, all the time, and a bad guy just picks it up and shoots them with it. I'll bet this happens a hundred times a day in America.

[Dreamliner]

It was inexcusable that the kid's mom just had guns laying around the house (bet there was one laying on the TV, one on the sofa, one in the fridge). She needs to be punished for it.

Oh, wait.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Do I really need to explain what might happen with a roomful of children and a single adult are combined with firearms?

Yes, yes you do need to explain what MIGHT happen.

A teacher with a CCP and a gun on his hip or in her purse in a room full of children.

Please explain for us ALL the things that COULD happen. Under all circumstances.

[Dreamliner]

Sounds like the NRA is the adult in the room right now. It basically issued condolences and "We will make no statement until all the facts are in."

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Yes, yes you do need to explain what MIGHT happen.

A teacher with a CCP and a gun on his hip or in her purse in a room full of children.

Please explain for us ALL the things that COULD happen. Under all circumstances.

No. I don't need to. Either you get it or you don't.

[Dreamliner]

If a law-abiding adult, trained in gun use, has a gun in a classroom full of children ... he'll just snap, whip out his firearm and shoot all the children! It's a potent cocktail!

[Minister_of_Information]

Actually I will pose a simple question that ought to be illustrative. Would you let a random CCW permit holder take your 8 year old child to the range and teach them how to shoot?

[Minister_of_Information]

Plus, for my guns-are-a-panacea friends, negligent discharges plus teacher v. teacher v. student v. student gun violence is an inevitable outcome of such a policy.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

This opinion doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...nd-killed.html





So gun owners are being shot more often than non-gun owners. Causal effects still need more work, but the idea that places without guns are more dangerous doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

LOL A "scientist"? Lets hear this from a real expert on weapons and their use and maybe I'll be impressed. A Navy Seal perhaps?

My argument stands up fine, and I don't need a "scientist" most likely using his own agenda to tell me otherwise.

I don't care much for the link because I've seen it (and many like it), before. "Gun owners" or "gun shooters" are variable terms.

Accidental discharges and shootings are a signifigant part of those gun owners being shot too. A lot of those are people who are handling weapons and don't even know how to.

Another factor, and the largest btw, are outright criminals who have (or "own"), guns shooting and killing each other, and IMO, I don't even consider those who illegally possess firearms and use them against others as "gun owners".

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Gray, your objections are noted. And dismissed.

It would help if the pro gun side didn't come across as nutballs lacking common sense, as well as powers of critical thinking.

That's pretty arrogant and typically liberal of you.

If you don't want to learn about something you're opposed to, then just say it up front and remain blissfully ignorant and don't waste my time.

Lacking common sense? I think lunatics shooting defensless, innocent children is lacking common sense.

Remember, this wasn't a responsible, trained, licensed, law-abiding gun owner who killed those kids... it was someone who stole the guns, killed their legal owner, and then used them to kill with in a place where guns weren't allowed.

Really Minister, if you're going to debate this, respond with something that isn't so weak as just accusing all gun-owners as nut-cases and "lacking common sense".

[Dreamliner]

But I do agree with the people who are running around screaming, hands waving in the air. We do need to take swift action. And the first order of business is to confiscate guns from all the people who didn't do this!

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

But I do agree with the people who are running around screaming, hands waving in the air. We do need to take swift action. And the first order of business is to confiscate guns from all the people who didn't do this!

These are people with a political agenda anyway. Gun control in this specific incident is not the issue at all. The lady had firearms in the house that were accessible to a mentally screwed up person. This calls for commonsense control.

[zoltanuf]

Teachers carrying guns is a practice that wouldn't last long. I remember all the physical violence from my middle and HS days - wild out of control passion with teachers in the middle of it trying to stop it. It would get messy to say the least. Can you imagine how often a gun could get in the hands of someone out of control in these situations? Where before, these incidents ended in bruises/injuries, now some would end in death (from a teacher's gun). The resulting media frenzy? Hmmm.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Actually I will pose a simple question that ought to be illustrative. Would you let a random CCW permit holder take your 8 year old child to the range and teach them how to shoot?

Whats funny is that they still allow their 8 year old to molded by idiots that teach them.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by zoltanuf

Teachers carrying guns is a practice that wouldn't last long. I remember all the physical violence from my middle and HS days - wild out of control passion with teachers in the middle of it trying to stop it. It would get messy to say the least. Can you imagine how often a gun could get in the hands of someone out of control in these situations? Where before, these incidents ended in bruises/injuries, now some would end in death (from a teacher's gun). The resulting media frenzy? Hmmm.

I agree that schools should be Gun-Free Zones. And since guns wouldn't be permitted there, these things wouldn't happen.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

No. I don't need to. Either you get it or you don't.

I think we get it fine Minister.

You have summarily "noted and dismissed" our arguments because you can't refute them.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Actually I will pose a simple question that ought to be illustrative. Would you let a random CCW permit holder take your 8 year old child to the range and teach them how to shoot?

Strawman, thy name is MOI.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Actually I will pose a simple question that ought to be illustrative. Would you let a random CCW permit holder take your 8 year old child to the range and teach them how to shoot?

We're not talking about "random CCW permit holders" here Minister, we're talking about teachers who have recieved proper training in firearmd use and tactics. there's a big difference, no matter how much you try to word-play it.

Btw, I have been allowed by the parents of some of my friends to show their teens how to properly handle and fire a weapon. Those kids grew up to be responsible gun owners and CCW permit owners too.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Plus, for my guns-are-a-panacea friends, negligent discharges plus teacher v. teacher v. student v. student gun violence is an inevitable outcome of such a policy.

Strawman, they name is MOI, part duex.

Who said anything about gun wielding teachers being a "panacea?"

[zoltanuf]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I agree that schools should be Gun-Free Zones. And since guns wouldn't be permitted there, these things wouldn't happen.

If by "these things" you mean the incidents I described in the post you quoted, then yes.