Point guard situation this year vs. last year

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

What will be interesting to see is who will be THAT GUY, like Walker so often was, the one who is able to make the deep three to squash an opponent who gets out on a run, or the guy who carries the team through a sluggish first half like Walker did against K-State a couple of years back, so far the THAT GUY roll seems to have fallen to Rosario but I think Murphy could be the one, but, if I had to put money on it I would bet that Frazier becomes THAT GUY

I don't want to jump the gun but before I finished reading your post the name that came to mind was Frazier II. I'm trying to keep in mind he is a freshman but...............

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by egator7

The defensive improvement is evident as most are saying. I also like the offensive improvement because we are greatly limiting the number of out of control drives that resulted in turnovers. It seems like with Frazier, Boynton, Wilbekin and Murphy, we still have a plethora of 3 point shooters. Even Will getting into the mix there.

Walker averaged about 2 turnovers per game.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by rserina

Was that 115 on the basis of seven early games last year or the whole season? I think that might skew the comparison a little.

I had mentioned that the small sample size and the need for variety in opposition is a factor at this point. However, in fairness to this years team, we can only work with what we have.

of course, the results have been impressive and at least on my part, predictable. I had little doubt that this years team was easily and at minimum sweet 16 quality going back to the end of last season.

I was more concerned about how we were going to replace the scoring/rebounding we got out of Beal last year than I was about the quality of our point guard play.

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

What will be interesting to see is who will be THAT GUY, like Walker so often was, the one who is able to make the deep three to squash an opponent who gets out on a run, or the guy who carries the team through a sluggish first half like Walker did against K-State a couple of years back, so far the THAT GUY roll seems to have fallen to Rosario but I think Murphy could be the one, but, if I had to put money on it I would bet that Frazier becomes THAT GUY

I think it'll be Boynton that steps up in the big moments.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by Ahab

I think it'll be Boynton that steps up in the big moments.

how about we just beat everybody by 20+ points every game

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by madgator

how about we just beat everybody by 20+ points every game

That works for me

[chompalot]

nm wrong thread

[keefer]

No question that this team has multiple guys that take a great deal of pride in playing tenacious D. With Billy staying on Young and Murphy as well, this team has unlimited ability to disrupt and/or shut down opposing offenses. Billy is giving as many looks defensively as he ever has due to the fact that this team has great athleticism and versatility.

When you can limit the good looks or easy baskets, then the possibility of opposing teams going on long runs is greatly diminished. Even if our offense is struggling a little teams are going to have difficulty pulling away. Conversely, we will end up getting easy baskets as we have done a great job of so far, making it much easier for us to go on those long runs when we are shooting well.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

I had mentioned that the small sample size and the need for variety in opposition is a factor at this point. However, in fairness to this years team, we can only work with what we have.

of course, the results have been impressive and at least on my part, predictable. I had little doubt that this years team was easily and at minimum sweet 16 quality going back to the end of last season.

I was more concerned about how we were going to replace the scoring/rebounding we got out of Beal last year than I was about the quality of our point guard play.

Predictable, just like your prediction of Larson being a poor man's Johkim Noah, or maybe your prediction of the election results in Ohio, ooohhh, sorry, low blow

[madgator]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Predictable, just like your prediction of Larson being a poor man's Johkim Noah, or maybe your prediction of the election results in Ohio, ooohhh, sorry, low blow

the Larson situation will be left unknown.....interesting though how badly Donovan tried to keep him on the team and has stated that there is an open door back if he wants it. so maybe one day we will find out. til then....


look, the nightmare days of having to watch Walker hamstring our team's success are over. We are now undefeated, currently rated one of the top offensive AND defensive teams in the nation, we are winning games by an average of 25 ppg, and we are considered the top team in the SEC and a final four favorite.

the football team is playing in the Sugar Bowl and will most likely give us a top 3 finish. 2013 promises to provide a legit run to win titles in both football, basketball and if things develop right baseball as well.

So life is good on many levels and the promise is all there for even bigger and greater.

I actually had a conversation with someone today where someone put out the thought that if we take down Arizona, with the current state of the SEC, and if we stay injury free. We COULD legitimately run the regular season. Now, I don't necessarily agree. But it's a nice thought nonetheless.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

the Larson situation will be left unknown.....interesting though how badly Donovan tried to keep him on the team and has stated that there is an open door back if he wants it. so maybe one day we will find out. til then....

look, the nightmare days of having to watch Walker hamstring our team's success are over. We are now undefeated, currently rated one of the top offensive AND defensive teams in the nation, we are winning games by an average of 25 ppg, and we are considered the top team in the SEC and a final four favorite.

the football team is playing in the Sugar Bowl and will most likely give us a top 3 finish. 2013 promises to provide a legit run to win titles in both football, basketball and if things develop right baseball as well.

So life is good on many levels and the promise is all there for even bigger and greater.

I actually had a conversation with someone today where someone put out the thought that if we take down Arizona, with the current state of the SEC, and if we stay injury free. We COULD legitimately run the regular season. Now, I don't necessarily agree. But it's a nice thought nonetheless.

See above for the first person to ever describe two elite 8 runs as "nightmare days"

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

I had little doubt that this years team was easily and at minimum sweet 16 quality going back to the end of last season.

I hate engaging you in this debate, but the above quote is rather telling and points to what I think is your consistently unfair anaylsis and standard for Erving Walker.
In each of the past 2 seasons, the Gators made the Elite 8 with Erv as pg. Now, with a team you suggest is better, and with the player who apparently "hamstrung" its success gone --- your benchmark is the Sweet 16.

Explain. . .

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I hate engaging you in this debate, but the above quote is rather telling and points to what I think is your consistently unfair anaylsis and standard for Erving Walker.
In each of the past 2 seasons, the Gators made the Elite 8 with Erv as pg. Now, with a team you suggest is better, and with the player who apparently "hamstrung" its success gone --- your benchmark is the Sweet 16.

Explain. . .

I can explain,

the Larson prediction and his unfortunate arrogance regarding Ohio have left him a little gun shy about getting too aggressive with his predictions, he is now content to predict that we will do slightly worse than we did last year despite the fact that we are now without the guy that he is on record as saying we would be better off without .... Yeah I guess you had better ask him

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I hate engaging you in this debate, but the above quote is rather telling and points to what I think is your consistently unfair anaylsis and standard for Erving Walker.
In each of the past 2 seasons, the Gators made the Elite 8 with Erv as pg. Now, with a team you suggest is better, and with the player who apparently "hamstrung" its success gone --- your benchmark is the Sweet 16.

Explain. . .

it's not about benchmarks. It's about expectations. Expectations can certainly adjust as the season goes on; young players develop, injuries, opposing teams getting better/worse. Kind of like the "stock trend" comparisons.

so you can have a tremendous season that is beyond initial expectations but is still below where you should've ended up (even though it was greater than where you were expected to pan out at the outset)

In both of the last two years those situations definitely applied. During the 2010-2011 season we went in thinking about NCAA tourney maybe a sweet 16 best case scenario. then as the season started, by early January many were thinking we could be NIT bound. Then after a great January/February we were back thinking Sweet 16. We made it to the Elite 8 and with the way things shook out, SHOULD have made the final 4 and possibly beyond.

Last year was similar but different in that the swings weren't as great. Going in, the Sweet 16 seemed like a certainty. We got better as the year went on but standards/expectations were about the same. We went into the tourney with a tough draw and some thought that we couldn't even make the sweet 16 because of it. But we made the elite 8 playing some of our best basketball of the year relying heavily on our most talented player. ultimately we blew a game we definitely seemed to have control of for 35 of the 40 minutes.

my opinion explaining a reason why we lost out on maximum success in those games has already been discussed. my opinion as to why the success we did have came in spite of over-utilization has already been discussed at length.

so my analysis really isn't unfair because the expectations are fluid throughout the season. especially when it comes tournament time so much is in play. besides the fact that we have had extremely talented teams overall the past 2 years with several players who are excelling at the next level. whether that be in the NBA or Europe.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

I can explain,

the Larson prediction and his unfortunate arrogance regarding Ohio have left him a little gun shy about getting too aggressive with his predictions, he is now content to predict that we will do slightly worse than we did last year despite the fact that we are now without the guy that he is on record as saying we would be better off without .... Yeah I guess you had better ask him

the larson prediction will probably never be conclusively proven/disproven. Although it would be great to see the kid get his life in order, get back on the team and reach the potential that had schools like Kansas recruiting him.

and I have not been shy in my expectations/predictions for this year. Right now, we are looking like a legit final four team. however, there are still 25ish games left to play and a lot could happen. So pretty much every year, the Sweet 16 is the standard that all top schools should go in with. Tough to say that the Final Four is a shoe in. Only once have us Gators been afforded that luxury.

one team that I like A LOT and I think is going to get really really really good as the season develops (I mean they are good now but they can be the best in the country good) is Kansas. I'll call them a final four team. with Indiana, Duke and UF

[akaGatorhoops]

With respect... your expectations were unfair in the sense that I do not recall you lauding the pg play when those expectations were being exceeded. I do, of course, recall you blaming the pg play when your fluid and rising expectations were not met.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

With respect... your expectations were unfair in the sense that I do not recall you lauding the pg play when those expectations were being exceeded. I do, of course, recall you blaming the pg play when your fluid and rising expectations were not met.

No, I gave credit for making the attempt at adjustments. For being coachable. For working against life long engrained instincts. Still got pissed though when they reared their ugly head every now and again.

and despite success, I always knew that those inherent short-comings, occasional outbursts of instinct, and over-utilization would ultimately doom maximum team success.

[akaGatorhoops]

p.s.--- You would be hard pressed to find a gator roster from the past 12 years that was not talented. . . including the NIT teams that boasted speights, parsons, calathes.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

p.s.--- You would be hard pressed to find a gator roster from the past 12 years that was not talented. . . including the NIT teams that boasted speights, parsons, calathes.

I agree. Where/how/why do you think that those teams fell below their capabilities?

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

and despite success, I always knew that those inherent short-comings, occasional outbursts of instinct, and over-utilization would ultimately doom maximum team success.

I can't imagine that you do not see how transparent your own arguement is.
If put into dilogue, it would sound something like this:

"Yeah, Erv is doing okay now... but wait. Ok, we are winning, but waaaait. Sure, I know he broke the assist record, but you'll see. Just wait.
Yeah.... we are in the tourney again, but wait.
Alright, Sweet 16, but hold on. Yup... Elite 8, but give it some time.
Aha!!! I told you! We lost!!! I KNEW it!".

I am not trying to bust your stones on this again, but the notion that you were some kind of sooth-sayer is a bit ridiculous. By your own admssion, the Walker-led teams exceeded your overall expectations. Yet, when they did come up short, you used it as a 'gotcha moment' to prove a point that didn't exist.

The truth is, a significant portion of your analysis regarding Erv has always been valid. But there is a sizeable portion that ignores personal and team achievement, defers successes, highlights losses and assigns personal blame. It that with which I disagree.