Grades v UCF

[tupacbiff]

Happy with the result and to see Casey back. It was also nice to see UF easily handle the press and Scottie silence the doubters about his offensive game. Ran the high pick and roll Taureen Green style. Onto the grades...

Young, 5: He just gets a 5 for his defense on Clanton and his ridiculous hustle. Still not a beast enough on the glass. Still too passive when grabbing offensive boards close to the hoops. I love that he is a willing passer but sometimes want him to understand he cant be stopped.

Murphy, 3: Was invisible on the defensive glass. Made some nice moves by the hoop and his shots were pretty good ones so I can't fault him too much for them not falling since we know he is a great shot. It is clear he is just on a bad run of luck shooting. His def looked slow for the first time all season.

KB, 7: Obviously loved his 8 reb. Last year it would have taken him at least 7 games to grab that many boards and possibly 10 games. I thought he was a little too eager to shoot a few of those missed 3's but played a very nice overall game.

Yeguete, 6: Amazing touch pass to Young. Turning into a real gifter passer. 4th game in a row he picked up a moving screen foul. The other 3 were Rosario's fault but this one was on Will. Yes, Rosario rushed it again and didnt let him set but by now he should know when that happens just slip it to the basket. He wreaked havoc on def and had the 2nd most asst on the team with 4. Positionally his def is almost perfect both on and off ball.

Rosario, 3: I can tell by his feet if his 3 even has a chance. He really needs to work on his balance. I give Mike credit because he is the one player that understands about trying to get the ball inside. Unfortunately, he forces it sometimes and also forgets sometimes and takes wild driving shots when he should pass it off. Another game where he just makes some maddening plays. I was surprised after he was benched for a dumb play and got another chance he did it again. He should know by now that is not going to fly with Billy.

Ogbueze, 2: Only played 2 min but I saw him get beat 2 times defensively. Not good.

Frazier II, 4: Great on def and just shot poorly. With that said he does a great job spotting up and his hands defensively rivaled WY today. If he plays def like that he will continue to deserve minutes. His poor shooting was probably a bit of an aberration but I dont think we need him shooting deep 3's like KB yet.

Prather, 7: Welcome back Casey we missed you. Showed again that he has off the charts athleticism. I love when he dunks it still on the way up. Nice give and go and also liked him at the PG spot. He was also active against the 2-3 zone on the foul line. As expected is a beast on the press. He was a bit weak on at least 2 defensive box outs.

Walker, inc: only 2 min and didn't see anything worth mentioning.

Wilbekin, 8: A great game for Scottie. He owned the 1st half on both ends but faded a bit in the 2nd half. Did a great job running the pick and roll and looked like Taureen Greene at times. He just was reading the game so well offensively. Defensively, is so good on the ball. He also picked up 3 fouls two of which I thought were smart fouls.

Billy, 6: Did a nice job letting the kids play through the rough shooting start. I think he did a good job with the minutes and working Casey in. Still not sure why Ogbueze gets min over Graham based on game play. (I understand its likely due to ball handling).

Refs, 7: I didnt see any glaring errors or really blown calls. Seemed to be called pretty even.

Announcers, 6: By now everyone knows I dont like Wise. His voice is just so nasally and annoying. However, I think he read my criticism of his last game because he pretty much stopped everything I complained about. He got off his soapbox and stopped harping on moronic points. He still rushes and gets players names wrong and his voice is still atrocious but he was leaps and bounds better than last time.

By request:
Team Offense, 3: We took too many 3's and were too impatient. We also did not shoot the ball particularly well. However, we took care of the ball really well and dominated the offensive glass. The tempo was played on our terms. I also did not think we ran our offense very crisply. Post entry remains a concern. Today it was not so much the pass or the catch but more when to pass it in rather than reverse and repost. With Scottie shooting well we are a very tough team to 2-3 zone because KB and Scottie and Murph just stretch the def really far. Murph and Prather remain nice foul line options.

Team Def, 5: Very good in the 1st half and just ok in the 2nd. I think Billy was right that they hit alot of tough shots in the 2nd half. We did a nice job rotating and closing out. IN a 2-3 zone with Prather and WY on the wings we can be very tough. Also with Prather and WY we are very tough in man to man and pressing. Casey is a wrecking crew at the point on the press even when they break the initial trap. He has the quickness to recover and re-trap at half court. WY is so good positionally. If you watch him off the ball. when he is on the floor and the ball defender gets beat the dribbler almost always has to give it up because WY is so well positioned. In terms of team defenders we have 6 very good defenders right now on the roster in KB, Scottie, WY, Prather, Young and Frazier II (coming on). Murphy does well positional despite his lackof lateral quickness at times. Rosario still over hedges and gambles too much.

[Singaporegator]

Great job grading! I'll give you an 8! My only quibbles, and they are minor, are with Will and Scotty. I think Scotty had three career bests in the game. Even given rising expectations it is still hard not to reward those accomplishments relative to expected performance. As for Will, he just continues to get better. Again, I think it a bit unfair to lift his expectations so far so fast. From what I see he is an incredibly heady player who has a real feel for the game. I hope he sticks for his senior season because he will surely play in the NBA,

[GatorLurker]

Originally Posted by tupacbiff

Refs, 7: I didnt see any glaring errors or really blown calls. Seemed to be called pretty even.

Are you talking about the guys that forgot to bring their whistles for the first half and then tried to make up for it in the second half?

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tupacbiff

By request:

Team Offense, 3: We took too many 3's and were too impatient. We also did not shoot the ball particularly well. However, we took care of the ball really well and dominated the offensive glass. The tempo was played on our terms. I also did not think we ran our offense very crisply. Post entry remains a concern. Today it was not so much the pass or the catch but more when to pass it in rather than reverse and repost. With Scottie shooting well we are a very tough team to 2-3 zone because KB and Scottie and Murph just stretch the def really far. Murph and Prather remain nice foul line options.

Team Def, 5: Very good in the 1st half and just ok in the 2nd. I think Billy was right that they hit alot of tough shots in the 2nd half. We did a nice job rotating and closing out. IN a 2-3 zone with Prather and WY on the wings we can be very tough. Also with Prather and WY we are very tough in man to man and pressing. Casey is a wrecking crew at the point on the press even when they break the initial trap. He has the quickness to recover and re-trap at half court. WY is so good positionally. If you watch him off the ball. when he is on the floor and the ball defender gets beat the dribbler almost always has to give it up because WY is so well positioned. In terms of team defenders we have 6 very good defenders right now on the roster in KB, Scottie, WY, Prather, Young and Frazier II (coming on). Murphy does well positional despite his lackof lateral quickness at times. Rosario still over hedges and gambles too much.

Well:

1. The team offense and defense grades average to 4 of course.

2. The player grades above have an unweighted average of 5.1.

3. The player grades weighted by minutes played have a weighted average of 5.725

So it seems either we have worn you down and you are giving inflated player grades compared to your overall grades. Or perhaps we have worn you down on the player grades, but since the overall team grades are new we have not yet worn you down on them.

[HALLGATOR]

I didn't get to see the game but reading some comments I wonder if Mike is just hardheaded. He is probably the most baffling player on the team to me.

[gatordavisl]

Thanks Tupac. Like Hall, I was not privileged to see the game. Reading the rankings provides a nice picture of the on-court performance.

[BengermanV]

Not sure if this was posted anywhere else, but Donovan said something like "the turnovers are getting to be too much for me to handle" when talking about Rosario. I don't think he's going to be starting much longer. My preferred lineup?

Wilby
Boynton
Prather/Yeguete
Murphy
Young

[InstiGATOR1]

What matters is can Rosario maintain his minutes and contribute 10 or so points a game. I think he can. He had two terrible turnovers in the first few minutes of the second half today.

I suspect and hope his bench time has reminded him that he must not make really bad turnovers and they were bad turnovers today. I see starter minutes for 7 maybe 8 players and Rosario should be one of those players as long as he can adjust to what his coach wants.

[tupacbiff]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Well:

1. The team offense and defense grades average to 4 of course.

2. The player grades above have an unweighted average of 5.1.

3. The player grades weighted by minutes played have a weighted average of 5.725

So it seems either we have worn you down and you are giving inflated player grades compared to your overall grades. Or perhaps we have worn you down on the player grades, but since the overall team grades are new we have not yet worn you down on them.

The player grades and team grades are mutually exclusive.

For example, if a player scored 33 pts on 11 for 11 3pt shooting but each shot was thrown backwards over his head he would grade out very high. The team offense would grade out low.

[bullish]

Tupac, I agree why didn't Graham get to play. When we were up 20 near the end, Murphy launches a lazy 3, barely makes the rim, then he runs down the court slowly, I might add, and gets beat easily for a score. So now instead of being up by 20 it is now 17 and Billy tightens up. He could have played Graham here without any fear of losing, got Murphy out, moved the line-up around. So, instead of some young legs, we keep the starters in as Billy waited too long to bring the bench in.

Rosario is an enigma. Let him go and he is fast, he has got a lot of shots, of which I wish he would stick to short shots instead of firing, quick off balance threes. As for his defense, it is a gambling type with high risk. I know this is driving Billy crazy. The good he is quick and can drive the hoop, the bad, too many off balance threes which the other team turns into points quickly.

Our zone defense, let UCF almost get back in the game. The rotations were slow and the tall wing for UCF was having a field day. I thought Billy was slow in manning up. Scottie was having a career day which was great to see. I know I have been hard on him, but he proved he could make shots consistently. We need him to continue this to make our team better. Rebounds and assists to add. Great game.

Casey Prather, great all round game, Frazier is getting better at learning how to play Billy ball. Tough defenders both, Frazier I would say is as tough as Will Y. so I concur with you on this.

Patrick should be able to get a double double every night. Entry passes/plays for him should be worked on. When he has his head straight on and is dominating his position, we can not be stopped. His defense I thought was good.

[gator7gh]

Jordan wishes he could dunk like Kenny Boynton. Boynton scores a 10 on the dunk.

[outbackjack]

Really enjoyed reading this alot.

Especially since I watched the entire game, but had to do so on DVR (utilizing some xx4 speed) due to time restraints.

Like: The tough grading.
Dislike: Rosario's carefree attitude and play.

Really like: You pointing out that we carry 6 VERY TOUGH defenders on this team.

Thanks for honoring my request on team O and D.

[outbackjack]

By the way, KB is the only one who gets a pass for forcing three's.

That's from me and Billy.

As we've seen over 4 years, he'll miss his share, but when it's on, NO ONE can make a 3 run like KB, half the time he's getting fouled as well.

He can go on a 9-0 run in seconds.....theoretically ending the game for the opponent.

Guys like that have to be given some room to force a little to see if they are "hot".

[tupacbiff]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

By the way, KB is the only one who gets a pass for forcing three's.

That's from me and Billy.

As we've seen over 4 years, he'll miss his share, but when it's on, NO ONE can make a 3 run like KB, half the time he's getting fouled as well.

He can go on a 9-0 run in seconds.....theoretically ending the game for the opponent.

Guys like that have to be given some room to force a little to see if they are "hot".

I basically agree. I rarely mind kb heat check 3's when he has hit a few. The ones that bother me is when he has missed a few and he forces the look. With that said he is much improved in this area and to an extent this is now part of our offense for kb.

[g8rboy]

fun stuff tupac.

i am waiting for the wilbekin, boynton, frazier II, prather, yeguete no way you score on us line-up.

[bullish]

I forgot to add, 8 for Boynton, if playing on an tender ankle, getting 8 Reb's and 24 pts, lets up his score a pt for playing through it. 9************** stars, nobody is perfect. LOL

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tupacbiff

The player grades and team grades are mutually exclusive.

For example, if a player scored 33 pts on 11 for 11 3pt shooting but each shot was thrown backwards over his head he would grade out very high. The team offense would grade out low.

It seems to me that the team and minutes weighted player grade should in fact be roughly consistent. I your hypothetical, the backwards shooting player should grade out somewhat high, but his teammates how did not him the ball in decent position would great out lower.

A team with an average score of 4 in its two ratings should in fact be composed of players who roughly average 4. After all you are clearly grading the players on both offense and defense.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

It seems to me that the team and minutes weighted player grade should in fact be roughly consistent. I your hypothetical, the backwards shooting player should great out somewhat high, but his teammates how did not him the ball in decent position would great out lower.

A team with an average score of 4 in its two ratings should in fact be composed of players who roughly average 4. After all you are clearly grading the players on both offense and defense.

What type of measure did you use to weight the players' ratings? I think Tupac is fine here. Comparing the players' scores to the team score presents an issue of reliability, particularly with the singular team scores. There is not enough data to establish a reasonable degree of internal consistency and therefore, I would exercise caution with any such comparison. Remember, Tupac's ratings are subjective and based more upon observation than objective data. At the same time, your weighted average is within one SD (just more than 2) of the team average. I included coach's rating in the SD calculation, as yours was a comparison of team/player performance, which presumably may include the performance of the coach. Did you include his rating in the weighted average?

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

What type of measure did you use to weight the players' ratings? I think Tupac is fine here. Comparing the players' scores to the team score presents an issue of reliability, particularly with the singular team scores. There is not enough data to establish a reasonable degree of internal consistency and therefore, I would exercise caution with any such comparison. Remember, Tupac's ratings are subjective and based more upon observation than objective data. At the same time, your weighted average is within one SD (just more than 2) of the team average. I included coach's rating in the SD calculation, as yours was a comparison of team/player performance, which presumably may include the performance of the coach. Did you include his rating in the weighted average?

1. As I said originally, I weighted by minutes played. To me that makes sense as the players that play must play all the minutes. I gave Walker a 4, the average of his team scores, as Tupac gave him no rating but suggested there was nothing positive or negative to say.

2. There is certainly enough data to be internally consistent. One could do all the rankings presented here, then compare the player and team averages and then make adjustments to make them roughly internally consistent.

4. Because they are subjective rankings they can be made internally consistent. In fact making them internally consistent is a check on subjective biases.

5. I guess I could include the coaching rating. I chose not to because the staff and announcers do not play minutes on the court and the player ratings to some extent reflects the coach impact. Still in this case if I included Donovan's 6 the average would go up.

[rserina]

One of the problems with our early first half offense is that the floor spacing is terrible on our first unit. Murphy's range mitigates Yeguete's lack of it a little, but Rosario is shooting poorly, teams can take away Boynon off the ball screens, and Rosario, Yeguete, or Young are all fairly sloppy handling the ball. That means you have lots of clogging of the lane and very little room to drive or to reverse the ball to open shooters.

Wilbekin will be in the starting lineup soon enough because of his passing and spot-up shooting ability. The real question remains the three. I think Donovan loves the size, athleticism, and general disruptiveness Yeguete brings to the table defensively, but he just can't run much offense there. Prather brings those same defensive intangibles to the table, though he has some of the same offensive problems in terms of ballhandling. Rosario would give you great spacing because of his handle, but you hurt yourself defensively. Not sure what Donovan will do there.