Derrick Henry announcing today

[tec68]

Originally Posted by teamtodd

I'm sure Taylor is one evaluation you will hit on, but Henry is one you will miss on. All of the things that you pointed out about Henry's limitations as a RB have mostly been corrected this season. That is why he has been able to rush for well over 3,000 yards this year and break the all-time record. Your comments about not being able to make people miss and runs too upright indicated you have not seen much of him this season. If you have seen him play extensively this season, yet have the same opinion of him, well...then that tells me all I need to know about your RB evaluations...just saying.

I have seen him carry the ball over 100 times this year. He runs upright. That is the honest truth. He can make people miss but he does not have the vision or moves that Emmitt or even Kelvin has. He is very fast for a big guy and will be a very good football player. Kelvin IMHO has the best vision and moves in the class. If he were 0.2 second faster he would be the best RB in this class by my evaluation.

Henry definitely has advantages over Kelvin in top-end speed, and size.

They are about even in strength, burst, durability, ball security, production, and motivation to improve. Now both are also about the same in knowledge of the position, they can learn the plays but it may take some time.

Kelvin has slight advantages over Henry in vision, agility, blocking, catching, and a definite advantage in route running, and the biggest advantage to me that Kelvin possesses is leadership.

From the times I have been around them and the people I have talked to who are around Henry it is very clear that Henry is not the leader that Kelvin is. Some people have that intangible and some do not.

While Henry could be an excellent RB, he is not on the level of Kelvin overall. He is not asked to block and has not worked on it much. Where Kelvin is not asked to block much but worked very hard on it because Fred Taylor told him he needed it. Henry is not a very good route runner and I do not think he could move to TE like some think, unless coaches want a project. He is good at catching the ball but Kelvin has the best hands of any RB in this class.

You cannot base a kids future solely on his production in high school. Technique is key, being able to do everything that the position requires is key. Right now I see more from Kelvin than I do from Henry.

Now remember these are evaluations of high school kids playing other high school kids. Sometimes I find kids that are not ranked very high by sites but are very impressive to me and I introduce their film to coaches and they end up pretty darn good. Sometimes I think they are all-world players and they end up just good.

Lets remember I am not saying one will be better or one will start or one will change positions. I am giving you an opinion that coaches ask me to give them.

[teamtodd]

Originally Posted by tec68

I have seen him carry the ball over 100 times this year. He runs upright. That is the honest truth. He can make people miss but he does not have the vision or moves that Emmitt or even Kelvin has. He is very fast for a big guy and will be a very good football player. Kelvin IMHO has the best vision and moves in the class. If he were 0.2 second faster he would be the best RB in this class by my evaluation.

Henry definitely has advantages over Kelvin in top-end speed, and size.

They are about even in strength, burst, durability, ball security, production, and motivation to improve. Now both are also about the same in knowledge of the position, they can learn the plays but it may take some time.

Kelvin has slight advantages over Henry in vision, agility, blocking, catching, and a definite advantage in route running, and the biggest advantage to me that Kelvin possesses is leadership.

From the times I have been around them and the people I have talked to who are around Henry it is very clear that Henry is not the leader that Kelvin is. Some people have that intangible and some do not.

While Henry could be an excellent RB, he is not on the level of Kelvin overall. He is not asked to block and has not worked on it much. Where Kelvin is not asked to block much but worked very hard on it because Fred Taylor told him he needed it. Henry is not a very good route runner and I do not think he could move to TE like some think, unless coaches want a project. He is good at catching the ball but Kelvin has the best hands of any RB in this class.

You cannot base a kids future solely on his production in high school. Technique is key, being able to do everything that the position requires is key. Right now I see more from Kelvin than I do from Henry.

Now remember these are evaluations of high school kids playing other high school kids. Sometimes I find kids that are not ranked very high by sites but are very impressive to me and I introduce their film to coaches and they end up pretty darn good. Sometimes I think they are all-world players and they end up just good.

Lets remember I am not saying one will be better or one will start or one will change positions. I am giving you an opinion that coaches ask me to give them.

Now this extensive evaluation is easier to swallow, even agreeable with me Some things Henry just simply is not required to work on in practice, but college will change that. Therefore, knowing his drive and work ethic, I believe he will make short work of those limitations as well. Henry's leadership comes only through him being a perfectionist...he requires EVERYONE to do their job exactly as required, even the water girls!
Please be clear on this, I'm not knocking Taylor. I'm thrilled that we have him because he's the closest thing to Emmitt that we've ever had. However, I believe Henry is the closest thing to Herschel that we could've gotten!
I just simply don't understand why you wouldn't try to land both of them and let them compete?
Thanks for taking the time and expressing your evaluation more clearly

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by teamtodd

Now this extensive evaluation is easier to swallow, even agreeable with me Some things Henry just simply is not required to work on in practice, but college will change that. Therefore, knowing his drive and work ethic, I believe he will make short work of those limitations as well. Henry's leadership comes only through him being a perfectionist...he requires EVERYONE to do their job exactly as required, even the water girls!
Please be clear on this, I'm not knocking Taylor. I'm thrilled that we have him because he's the closest thing to Emmitt that we've ever had. However, I believe Henry is the closest thing to Herschel that we could've gotten!
I just simply don't understand why you wouldn't try to land both of them and let them compete?
Thanks for taking the time and expressing your evaluation more clearly

Because the staff doesn't feel the same way you do. This is not a foreign concept either. In high school he throws kids around and out runs them on sweeps. That is not going to happen in the SEC. I think he is the 3rd best back in Alabama's class. He could see the field early because he is a EE. But Tenpenny & Jones are better backs.
The staff also did not stop recruiting him until he had a bad recruiting trip at Florida.

[tec68]

Originally Posted by teamtodd

Now this extensive evaluation is easier to swallow, even agreeable with me Some things Henry just simply is not required to work on in practice, but college will change that. Therefore, knowing his drive and work ethic, I believe he will make short work of those limitations as well. Henry's leadership comes only through him being a perfectionist...he requires EVERYONE to do their job exactly as required, even the water girls!
Please be clear on this, I'm not knocking Taylor. I'm thrilled that we have him because he's the closest thing to Emmitt that we've ever had. However, I believe Henry is the closest thing to Herschel that we could've gotten!
I just simply don't understand why you wouldn't try to land both of them and let them compete?
Thanks for taking the time and expressing your evaluation more clearly

Your welcome. I like many others here know that the coaches did not care for some things he did while on campus and they were telling him the truth about where they thought he should play.

[Speedofsand]

Henry ran a 4.37 ? That's one thing I don't buy. I do think he is easily good enough to be a college RB, but he will need to watch his nutrition to keep from getting too big.

Since he is going to Bama, I hope he gets a rash.

[DieAGator]

Originally Posted by tec68

Your welcome. I like many others here know that the coaches did not care for some things he did while on campus and they were telling him the truth about where they thought he should play.

I don't what he did, would like to know, but what matters here is you had an incredible HS RB who every school in the country would take at RB but was being told/sold that he'll be an NFL DE???? Bad technique no matter what. You can tell him he's likely to outgrow the position but we'll start you at RB and if you believe he's a certain DE than we aren't sitting around worrying about Eli Daniel or Eb Ogundeko.

Imagine the NFL telling a great college RB your future is on DL??? I don't get it honestly.

[your_perfect_enemy]

I'm not sure I understand why someone would want to be a RB over a DE, aside from coaches having been around much longer than the kids etc, even a good running back is only in the NFL for like 5 years and are one of the most replaceable positions in all of sports.

[tec68]

Originally Posted by DieAGator

I don't what he did, would like to know, but what matters here is you had an incredible HS RB who every school in the country would take at RB but was being told/sold that he'll be an NFL DE???? Bad technique no matter what. You can tell him he's likely to outgrow the position but we'll start you at RB and if you believe he's a certain DE than we aren't sitting around worrying about Eli Daniel or Eb Ogundeko.

Imagine the NFL telling a great college RB your future is on DL??? I don't get it honestly.

The NFL is a job. If a team tells a great RB they are going to be on the DL then they are going to be on the DL. If your boss tells you to do something you do it.

Colleges specialize kids to positions so a RB will never be told that by the NFL. High school takes its best athletes and puts them where they can get to the ball. There aren't enough good kids to fill all the needs. That is why you have so many guys who are called "Athletes" because they will be moved around.

If you blame our coaches for telling him the truth about what they think then you have an interesting set of priorities.

I am glad we have a staff that is honest with these young men instead of telling them anything they want to hear just to get them here.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by Itssaul

He is good. No way he will be better than lane or taylor. There's a mold for a reason. In the nfl an RB can't just break LB tackles day in day out. He'll be good in college and I think we should have taken him. But it'd be hard to give up lane or taylor for him, I would give him a scholar ship over many other recruit tho

Fair point, man think how awesome the Meyer years would have been if only he'd made Tim into a LB or a TE

[beanfield]

lb fo sure

[DieAGator]

Originally Posted by tec68

The NFL is a job. If a team tells a great RB they are going to be on the DL then they are going to be on the DL. If your boss tells you to do something you do it.

Nonsense. Of course I understand that if my boss says "today your priority is x" then I follow orders. If he tells me I'm going to be in the lab developing next generation pharmaceuticals, but I'm in sales, I might do it but he's making a mistake.

That is why you have so many guys who are called "Athletes" because they will be moved around.

There really truly aren't that many kids who are called athletes. In fact, nobody suited for DE or OL is referred to by the services as "athlete".

If you blame our coaches for telling him the truth about what they think then you have an interesting set of priorities.

I am glad we have a staff that is honest with these young men instead of telling them anything they want to hear just to get them here.

I value opinions but please stop with the idea that I represent being dishonest with kids because that is a lie. Instead, on campus recruiting issues aside, I would have told DH that he can come on as a RB but that he should never rule out the idea that he will literally outgrow the RB position and find an even more viable and long lasting NFL career as a LB/DE, so please be open minded. I think that's how you build trust because if what so many on this board seem to parrot- that he has no choice but to play LB/DE at the next level- then he will hear similar things from the many other staffs surely talking to him about his future.

But what bothers me about your perspective is that you expect a kid who doesn't play defense at all and is currently the all time rushing leader in the great state of Florida to immediately accept a staff's opinion that he has to switch to defense, which he may have no desire to do. Do you really expect a recruit to believe that, even if they are right?

I do realize there are enough players out there who play both sides of the line or clearly have the physical tools to play either S or WR, for example, and in those cases it's obviously no stretch to their imagination to have a staff say "we really think we want you exclusively as our next great safety", or something to that effect.

[tec68]

Originally Posted by DieAGator

Nonsense. Of course I understand that if my boss says "today your priority is x" then I follow orders. If he tells me I'm going to be in the lab developing next generation pharmaceuticals, but I'm in sales, I might do it but he's making a mistake.

There really truly aren't that many kids who are called athletes. In fact, nobody suited for DE or OL is referred to by the services as "athlete".
I value opinions but please stop with the idea that I represent being dishonest with kids because that is a lie. Instead, on campus recruiting issues aside, I would have told DH that he can come on as a RB but that he should never rule out the idea that he will literally outgrow the RB position and find an even more viable and long lasting NFL career as a LB/DE, so please be open minded. I think that's how you build trust because if what so many on this board seem to parrot- that he has no choice but to play LB/DE at the next level- then he will hear similar things from the many other staffs surely talking to him about his future.

But what bothers me about your perspective is that you expect a kid who doesn't play defense at all and is currently the all time rushing leader in the great state of Florida to immediately accept a staff's opinion that he has to switch to defense, which he may have no desire to do. Do you really expect a recruit to believe that, even if they are right?

I do realize there are enough players out there who play both sides of the line or clearly have the physical tools to play either S or WR, for example, and in those cases it's obviously no stretch to their imagination to have a staff say "we really think we want you exclusively as our next great safety", or something to that effect.

DT and OL no. DE/LB yes there are athletes.

He has played defense before. Go read my other posts. I am just doing what I am payed to do.

[gatordee]

If WM wanted him to come to UF as a defensive player, he is going to let him know. WM is not the type of coach to try and manipulate words just to get a kid in O&B. He wants the recruits that come here to understand that no matter who they are, they are going to do it the Gator (WM) way.

[DieAGator]

Originally Posted by tec68

DT and OL no. DE/LB yes there are athletes.

In any season of the athletes there will be a couple potential LBs(by size) and maybe a DE/TE or two. But that's about it. So it's not accurate to represent LB/DEs make a significant portion of prospects listed as Athletes.

He has played defense before. Go read my other posts. I am just doing what I am payed to do.

My common sense comes at no charge. The message we're getting here is that the staff was intransigent on their position that DH is a future rush end. It's not dishonest to tell the greatest RB in state of FL history that he can have a fair shot at RB but if he can't make the step up he has to move to a different position. You educate him that IF it came to be that he turned out to be a future HOF LB/DE he would likely have a longer more profitable NFL career than if he remained a RB even if he did end up having a longer than average career span in NFL. There are many examples of career ending injuries to RBs, far fewer to LB/DEs. It's not rocket science. But if this guy actually vowed to work harder than ever to prove he's capable of being a great college RB then logic tells us he was told he would fail as a RB. That's just no way to turn a player. It's not a message that most emotionally mature people at the height of their game would listen to either.

I'm hoping DH proves you and the coaches right so that we don't end up wondering how people paid to do their job let this guy get out of Florida.

[Itssaul]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

Fair point, man think how awesome the Meyer years would have been if only he'd made Tim into a LB or a TE

Hey we may never know this, but Tim could have been the worlds greatest LB ever!

30 years from no college kids would want to win the Tim Tebow award, for the best LB's had 2 heisman years at UF and all time pro bowl er in the NFL with commendations such as most ints, sack, tackles, FF, and pass deflections over a career.

One can dream right?

[tec68]

Originally Posted by DieAGator

In any season of the athletes there will be a couple potential LBs(by size) and maybe a DE/TE or two. But that's about it. So it's not accurate to represent LB/DEs make a significant portion of prospects listed as Athletes.


My common sense comes at no charge. The message we're getting here is that the staff was intransigent on their position that DH is a future rush end. It's not dishonest to tell the greatest RB in state of FL history that he can have a fair shot at RB but if he can't make the step up he has to move to a different position. You educate him that IF it came to be that he turned out to be a future HOF LB/DE he would likely have a longer more profitable NFL career than if he remained a RB even if he did end up having a longer than average career span in NFL. There are many examples of career ending injuries to RBs, far fewer to LB/DEs. It's not rocket science. But if this guy actually vowed to work harder than ever to prove he's capable of being a great college RB then logic tells us he was told he would fail as a RB. That's just no way to turn a player. It's not a message that most emotionally mature people at the height of their game would listen to either.

I'm hoping DH proves you and the coaches right so that we don't end up wondering how people paid to do their job let this guy get out of Florida.

Do you realize how many kids I evaluate a year? Every kid is trying to play in college whether its for Bethune-Cookman, FAU, or UF. There are a lot more atheletes than just the ones in the top 250 on ESPN.

Are you serious man? Chill out. Read my other posts. My job will never be a guarantee but it is a job where I am already gaining some recognition and I am relatively new in the profession. There are also plenty of people that agree with me that don't get paid to evaluate players. If I am wrong it wont be the last time, If I am right it wont be the last time.

I apologize that you do not agree with me but like I said I am just calling it how I see it. No need for argument.

[grant1]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

Fair point, man think how awesome the Meyer years would have been if only he'd made Tim into a LB or a TE

There is a "mold", but its a rule-of-thumb notion. TT was to be a better QB than LB or FB. Herschell was possible the best college RB ever, but that didn't transfer to the NFL. Emmitt Smith was a really good college RB, but one of the best NFL RBs ever. Some scouts predicted he would be a bust in the NFL.

Different coaches have different philosophies in recruiting. Apparently Muschamp shares the honest approach as does Spurrier. I remember a battle with Phil Fulmer for an OT/DT. Kid wanted to play DT, Spurrier told him his future was OT. Phil said DT was OK and he signed with UT. He swicthed to OT in first year and went on to start in NFL at OT. Spurrier was right, but we lost the recruit.

[siennagator]

I love Muschamp but didn't he just say that he recruited Johnny Football when he was at Texas but as a defensive back. Nobody is infallible and especially if he is a defensive minded coach looking at a running back or quarterback prospect that he would love to have on defense. i hope Muschamp is right and Saban is wrong on Henry.

[MusicCityGator]

Henry will end up playing as a LB, you just wait and see.

[newmexicogator]

Originally Posted by gatordee

If WM wanted him to come to UF as a defensive player, he is going to let him know. WM is not the type of coach to try and manipulate words just to get a kid in O&B. He wants the recruits that come here to understand that no matter who they are, they are going to do it the Gator (WM) way.

Which is fine. But WM is the same guy who wanted Johnny Manziel to play safety. So lets not assume coaches are correct all the time.