Middle Tennessee Box Score MVG: Will Yeguete

[GatorJason]

Will Yeguete claimed a close MVG battle with Kenny Boynton giving a workman-like effort, scoring a double-double with 11 points and 13 rebounds giving Will a team high value score of 88. Unlike Yeguete, Boynton started the game slowly scoring only 2 points in the first half but lit it up in the second half, turning a tight game into a 21 point rout. Kenny led the Gators in scoring with 20 points along with 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals and 2 turnovers giving him a value score of 75. Scottie Wilbekin, coming off a four-game supension, hustled on offense and defense to garner the next team high value score of 45.

Box Score Value leaders for the game:
Yeguete........88
Boynton........75
Wilbekin...'....45

Click on this link to see all player value scores for this game

Value Credits* are assigned as follows:
+5 credits for each Steal and Assist
+4 credits for each Point scored, Rebound and Block
.-5 credits for each Turnover
.-2 credits for each Field Goal Attempt
.-1 credit for each Free Throw Attempt

* Value Credits are based solely on Box Score data and do not reflect total game contributions by players

MTU Game Official Box Score

The Gators next game will be against Savannah State on Tuesday, Nov 20th at 7:00.

[corpgator]

How did you come up with your scoring system?

[akaGatorhoops]

Cool analysis. And truth be told... WY does a bunch of stuff that does not show on the stat sheet. I can think of twice that he tipped the ball out for an offensive rebound.

[GatorJason]

Originally Posted by corpgator

How did you come up with your scoring system?

I saw a scoring system done by a UNC fan a few years ago, but he wouldn't reveal how he weighted the statistics. I created my own weighting system and got feedback from the NBN board to clean it up. Now it seems to provide a fair, balanced assessment of the box score data and player performances.

I understand the box score data doesn't tell the whole story. As Coach Donovan said today after the game, the presence and activity of a player like Patric Young isn't going to be fully reflected in the box score, but his contributions are huge in the effectiveness of the team defense. The Gator team defense is a primary reason why the Gators are a top tier team but there are few statistics that measure defensive performance.

Still, the Box Score Value points do seem to correlate to how well most players play, both good and bad. Do your own comparison how players are evaluated on another NBN thread and see how it correlates with Value Scores. The value stats usually align with evaluations given to individuals. One evaluation is subjective in words. Mine is objective in numbers.

[Emmitto]

Offensive rebounds make momma proud. They should get an extra point. IMO.

[bullish]

Will Y. the hardest working Div. 1 basketball player. By the end of the year, everyone in the nation will know, we have the next Dennis Rodman, without the tats and attitude. LOL

Sorry Dennis, not to demean your NBA legacy.

[grant1]

When Will squared up for that first shot, I thought "what is he doing?" Nothing but net. Air ball on the next one (had too much time to think about it). 50% on 3's = new threat!

[themistocles]

Yeguete, Boynton & Wilbekin.

I do like this methodology, because I think it weights Box Score Statistics in a functional fashion. When one looks merely at totals (sheesh Pete Maravich scored 45 points - yeah, but he shot the ball 200 times and turned it over 20 times) that is a very limiting perspective. Any statistics provide, as Jason noted, a limited perspective, but a useful one, nonetheless.

He will likely adjust this per minute played at some point in time, but being essentially a ratio of good versus bad, it provides a more balanced approach.

Does it really surprise anyone (it shouldn't), that Wilbekin contributed in a notable fashion to the team. The same, of course, is true of Yeguete. Boynton has always been obvious, but starting last year, I really think he improved substantially over his frosh and sophomore seasons.

[corpgator]

Why do assists count for so much, though? The person who assists is never as important as the person who scores the basket.

Also, why are rebounds behind steals? Both reach the same goal: creating a new possession.

Blocks are overrated in your system in my opinion. There's no guarantee the shot would go in and it doesn't create a new possession unless a rebound is had and that is accounted for anyway.

Just some food for thought if you ever were going to tweak it.

[GatorPlanet]

Originally Posted by grant1

When Will squared up for that first shot, I thought "what is he doing?" Nothing but net. Air ball on the next one (had too much time to think about it). 50% on 3's = new threat!

I couldn't believe he launched that 3! Even more unbelievable was that it went in!

That said, I'm glad he can make it, but he really should only be taking that shot if it's the only thing available at the end of a possession.

[GatorRade]

Originally Posted by corpgator

Why do assists count for so much, though? The person who assists is never as important as the person who scores the basket.

With our team, this is usually true, but some point guards, like Calathes, really do create the shots with their assists. It seems more of a case by case judgement call though.

Originally Posted by corpgator

Also, why are rebounds behind steals? Both reach the same goal: creating a new possession.

It is true that they both create a new possession, but I would argue that steals are more valuable for a player for two reasons: 1) defensive rebounds are at worst a 50-50 proposition for a whole team. The ball is randomly thrown into the air, you might catch it even you are not in the correct position. Or your teammate might have caught it, if you didn't. However, steals are taking away a controlled ball, which is much more rare than 50%. I guess I am arguing that steals and defensive rebounds would offer the same value to the team, but not to the individual. A player probably creates a steal more so than he creates a rebound. Also: 2) Steals often lead to easy fast break points, somewhat like a hockey assist.

However, after thinking about it, offensive rebounds do seem to be fairly equivalent to steals. They are basically a steal before the other team had a chance to possess the ball.

[Go2gtr]

Defensive rebounds change possession, offensive rebounds maintain possession. Even though it's a lose ball after a shot, the defensive rebound is more like a steal than he offensive rebound, I would think.

[GatorJason]

The weighting factors have been tweaked after much thought by many people.

Basic Logic to Weights

Assists = 5 credits. In Calathes days, his assists resulted in easy baskets. Still true today though not as apparrent.
Points = 4 credits each. But Baskets = (4 x 2 -2) 6 credits or (4 x 3 -2) 10 credits.
This metric gives opportunity for scorers to ring up good totals "if" they shoot well.

Rebounds = 4 credits. They are possessions after loose balls. O or D values are same.
..................Actually, a player often scores easy basket off an offensive rebound so they can get bonus that way
Steals = 5 credits. Steals are a forced change of possession and deserve (at least) 5 credits
TOs = -5 credits. Turnovers are inverse of steals and deserve (at least) -5 credits

Blocks = 4 credits. This is most subjective weighting since blocked shots don't necessarily mean a change in possion, however, for every blocked shot there are other shots that are changed from shot blockers that are never recorded in stats. The 4 credits is a way to give value to defensive players or intimidation players for the things they do. As I said earlier, the box score really does not measure defensive prowess very well. This is a small way to give them credit.

[corpgator]

Originally Posted by GatorRade

With our team, this is usually true, but some point guards, like Calathes, really do create the shots with their assists. It seems more of a case by case judgement call though.



It is true that they both create a new possession, but I would argue that steals are more valuable for a player for two reasons: 1) defensive rebounds are at worst a 50-50 proposition for a whole team. The ball is randomly thrown into the air, you might catch it even you are not in the correct position. Or your teammate might have caught it, if you didn't. However, steals are taking away a controlled ball, which is much more rare than 50%. I guess I am arguing that steals and defensive rebounds would offer the same value to the team, but not to the individual. A player probably creates a steal more so than he creates a rebound. Also: 2) Steals often lead to easy fast break points, somewhat like a hockey assist.

However, after thinking about it, offensive rebounds do seem to be fairly equivalent to steals. They are basically a steal before the other team had a chance to possess the ball.

Defensive rebounds are team based as you said. A good defensive rebounder is usually taking them away from his teammates. But they still need to be got.

Offensive rebounds are totally effort. Good offensive rebounders are a valuable commodity.

What you said about defensive rebounds being 50/50 can also be said about steals, especially for Billy Donovan teams. We do not create turnovers. BD hates gambling. Even with the '04s, we had one of the lowest opponent turnover rates in the country despite being very good defensively. The steals we are getting are mainly the other team making a mistake and throwing it to us.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by corpgator

Why do assists count for so much, though? The person who assists is never as important as the person who scores the basket.

Could not disagree more! The assister is often more important than the scorer - particularly when he sets up a teammate for a layup or dunk.

Plus, 5 points for an assist is less than the 6 or 10 points for a basket.


I believe I am the one who convinced GatorJason last season to raise the score (from 4 to 5 if I recall correctly) for an assist (which leads to a certain FG) to more than the score for a rebound (which leads to a FG about 50% of the time). Also, it helps balance the fact that guys who make a lot of assists don't get credit for all the "assists" that lead to shooting fouls.

Personally, as in hockey, I would make an assist count just as much as scoring the basket, but I'll admit I did play PG in my playing "career" (high school and UF & military league intramurals ). I appreciated Gator Jason raising the assist score as he did.

[GatorJason]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

I believe I am the one who convinced GatorJason last season to raise the score (from 4 to 5 if I recall correctly) for an assist (which leads to a certain FG) to more than the score for a rebound (which leads to a FG about 50% of the time). Also, it helps balance the fact that guys who make a lot of assists don't get credit for all the "assists" that lead to shooting fouls.

I honestly cannot recall who provided the argument but assists were originally only 4 credits. It was raised to 5 because it made the most sense based on impact to the game. Many players lack the ability to create their own shot and rely on a good pass when they are open or in position to score. I often wish players would get credit for ball screens to enable another player to get off a clean shot. It's almost as good as an assist!

I strongly disagree with the sentiment in another post that classifies steals as simply bad passes by the opposition and not caused by defensive pressure and awareness by the player stealing the ball. Billy ball is sometimes up tempo, defensive pressure designed to cause turnovers and poor shots. It is not by accident that the other team turns the ball over. Most TOs are forced and steals are often outcome of defensive pressure.