Gator Country

gatordd · 11-03-2012, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

Of course he disappears, he's not a franchise player. That's doesn't put him anywhere near terrible.

He is being paid like one

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 07:16 AM

Not really. He's at the end of a 5yr $54 mil contract. Just under $11 mil per year.

**gatorrick1** · 11-04-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

Not really. He's at the end of a 5yr $54 mil contract. Just under $11 mil per year.

This is correct. He is scheduled to make 12.4 mil in the last yr of his 5 yr deal. That means OKC can try him out until the trade deadline and if he is a good fit they can resign him. If he isn't working out he is a hell of a trade piece due to the fact he has an expiring contract. However, OKC has already told him they intend to keep him there and resign him. Brooks coached him in Sacremento and loves his game. Feels like he is a perfect fit to play next to Durant and Westbrook because he is so good playing without the ball, extremely efficient, very hard working and humble.

Presti knew it was possible Harden would not resign for less than the Max and also that Harden wanted to be the man on a team so he has been preparing for this all summer. He and Brooks reviewed tons of potential trade offers and players for the last few months and the Houston deal was their favorite because of Kevin and the Toronto draft pick.

Lamb is a throw in, Houston was not happy with him, but many GM's coveted him so Presti knows he's an asset that he can move later. Not surprisingly for those of us that really follow bball, Jeremy hasn't made a good impression due to his effort and Bball IQ

bakaduin · 11-04-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

Morey did an interview just last month saying his whole philosophy as a GM is that there are very few elite players in the league, you need one to win, and you trade for one when you get the chance. That is all you have to know about this trade. Martin is not elite. Harden is. I also disagree that Harden needs the ball in his hands "so much". He was content to put up efficient points without needing to be a starter much less dominate the ball.

gatordd · 11-04-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakaduin

Morey did an interview just last month saying his whole philosophy as a GM is that there are very few elite players in the league, you need one to win, and you trade for one when you get the chance. That is all you have to know about this trade. Martin is not elite. Harden is. I also disagree that Harden needs the ball in his hands "so much". He was content to put up efficient points without needing to be a starter much less dominate the ball.

Thank you

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 07:43 PM

I think you guys are missing the point. In the post above you wrote "Martin is not elite. Harden is." I don't believe anyone is arguing that Martin is elite. That's why Houston had to throw in a future 1st round pick from Toronto and this years first rounder, to help make up the gap between the players. Obviously Harden is a better player. How much? We will see.

You guys are again severely discounting how important financial flexibility is with the new cba for a small market franchise. The Lakers annd Clippers will have pull and money to pay extra. Lebron in Miami, along with the New York team have pull and money as well. Presti knows this and he acted accordingly.

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 07:45 PM

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

gatordd · 11-04-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

Thunder drop another one

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 09:36 PM

As did Houston

bakaduin · 11-04-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

He was fine giving his team the "hometown" discount of having them only pay him 4 years. But he wanted the max for those 4 years. What this really amounts to is 7 million dollars. For 7 million dollars would you rather have Harden for 4 years to go with your other 2 or would you rather not have him? I'd sure as heck rather have him!

gatordd · 11-04-2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

As did Houston

Houston wasn't and still aren't a contender. We disagree, it's okay.

REM08 · 11-04-2012, 10:22 PM

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.ele...E1920X1200.jpg

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 11:01 PM

Presti offered a 4yr $55 mil contract. The max was $60mil. If he was cool with a 'hometown discount' he probably would have taken the offer.

sHiNeR2 · 11-04-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatordd

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

We do agree that we disagree. You say we're dumb because we let go of a 'elite' franchise player, I say Harden is better than Martin, but is not a franchise player. You say the flexibility argument is dumb, I say it was the smart way to go. We'll talk again come playoffs.

madgator · 11-05-2012, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sHiNeR2

I think you guys are missing the point. In the post above you wrote "Martin is not elite. Harden is." I don't believe anyone is arguing that Martin is elite. That's why Houston had to throw in a future 1st round pick from Toronto and this years first rounder, to help make up the gap between the players. Obviously Harden is a better player. How much? We will see.

You guys are again severely discounting how important financial flexibility is with the new cba for a small market franchise. The Lakers annd Clippers will have pull and money to pay extra. Lebron in Miami, along with the New York team have pull and money as well. Presti knows this and he acted accordingly.

heard during the Laker telecast this week that if the Lakers sign Howard to a max deal, under the new CBA they will have to pay $90 million in luxury tax alone.

that's right.....$90 million ON TOP of their roster salary.

**gatorrick1** · 11-05-2012, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatordd

Thunder drop another one

Hey stop being a clown. KMart was amazing last night, Mr. I watch the games. 28 PTs, 22 in the first half on 6/7 shooting. He single handily kept them in the game first half. Oh but I forgot you don't care about stats because you have seen him and he sucks. What a joke. The Thunders problem right now is not the loss of Harden, but instead how to deal with the fact Perkins is not good and Westbrook is forcing things a little much right now which is always an issue with him.

Something else you don't get, Harden DID NOT want to be there if he was going to have the same role. He wanted to start and have the offense go thru him. Take a look at his fg attempts this year. That's what he wanted along with a Max deal.

bakaduin · 11-05-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

Hey stop being a clown. KMart was amazing last night, Mr. I watch the games. 28 PTs, 22 in the first half on 6/7 shooting. He single handily kept them in the game first half. Oh but I forgot you don't care about stats because you have seen him and he sucks. What a joke. The Thunders problem right now is not the loss of Harden, but instead how to deal with the fact Perkins is not good and Westbrook is forcing things a little much right now which is always an issue with him.

Something else you don't get, Harden DID NOT want to be there if he was going to have the same role. He wanted to start and have the offense go thru him. Take a look at his fg attempts this year. That's what he wanted along with a Max deal.

I disagree (though not with your first part I agree Westbrook and Perkins are the big problems). Harden wanted a 4 year max deal. Plain and simple, if they offer him 60 mil and 4 years he signs. Would he have rather been the go to guy? Absolutely but he was willing to give that up to stay on a team with teammates he loved and a chance to win. He was willing to take 1 year less which is generous in itself. Instead he got a max 5 year deal and gets to be the man.

**gatorrick1** · 11-05-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakaduin

I disagree (though not with your first part I agree Westbrook and Perkins are the big problems). Harden wanted a 4 year max deal. Plain and simple, if they offer him 60 mil and 4 years he signs. Would he have rather been the go to guy? Absolutely but he was willing to give that up to stay on a team with teammates he loved and a chance to win. He was willing to take 1 year less which is generous in itself. Instead he got a max 5 year deal and gets to be the man.

I know that is what's being reported so far, but I have contacts in that organization and that is simply not the case. I think it will leak out eventually, but the truth is Harden wanted his role to change. He felt he had sacrificed enough and he wanted to show just how good he can be. I absolutely don't blame him at all. He is in the prime of his career and deserves the money and chance to shine.

We will see how it all works out. This was a long term play by the Thunder Brass and Harden. As you can see with the Lakers, chemistry takes a while to work out so we will all see the impact of this as we go down the road.

corpgator · 11-05-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madgator

heard during the Laker telecast this week that if the Lakers sign Howard to a max deal, under the new CBA they will have to pay $90 million in luxury tax alone.

that's right.....$90 million ON TOP of their roster salary.

The new luxury tax penalties are harsh, especially for repeat offenders. NYC under Isaiah Thomas would have had to pony up over $250 million for one year in just luxury taxes for being a repeat offender with a massive payroll.

**gatorrick1** · 11-05-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corpgator

The new luxury tax penalties are harsh, especially for repeat offenders. NYC under Isaiah Thomas would have had to pony up over $250 million for one year in just luxury taxes for being a repeat offender with a massive payroll.

This is exactly right. Small market teams will not put themselves in a position to have to pay luxury tax. I believe with the new CBA it's $1.50/$1 over the cap. It's really designed to keep even the big market teams from spending over the cap.