Harden, 1st game with Houston, wow, Parsons did well too.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

Well we can agree that my first part was fact and certainly my second part was opinion (which we differ on).

I disagree strongly with you as a matter of fact. With Durant, Westbrook, and Harden locked up you have a top 5 player, a top 10 player, and a top 25 player for the next 4 years. All of them, under the age of 25 and haven't hit their ceiling yet. Financial flexibility? As the Miami Heat showed you don't need it when you have that level of talent in 3 players. You fill in the rest with role players and guys who fit your team model for cheap. Last years team was ready made to go back to the Finals this year. You can't improve on that you can only screw it up.

Really I can't say it any better than Bill Simmons.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...arden-disaster

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

[sleeze]

I would have got rid of Westbrook before Hardin. Westbrook is tooo inconsistent. He takes bad shots and he can shoot you out of a game. Ive played with guys like that and its no fun. He kinda reminds me of J.R. Smith.

Hardin is the opposite. Does what it takes to win...He doesnt have to jack up 20+ shots to know that he has helped the team in other areas. And he is fine with it. The perfect team player, imo.

[tupacbiff]

Why don't you guys Dave some time and cite bill Simmons article and call it a day.

[sHiNeR2]

Born and raised in OKC. Obviously I have some bias, but I'm cool with how everything went down. Russell had a rough game last night, but make no mistake, he is a hell of a player. For his career, he has averaged 6.8 assists per game. Harden has averaged 2.5. Harden is a beast, but I love how Presti afforded the franchise to have flexibility going forward. I love KMarts game and how he can fit in. Given time we should gel nicely. If we falter in the playoffs, its due more to our lack of interior post game, than losing James Harden. Just my three cents.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by tupacbiff

Why don't you guys Dave some time and cite bill Simmons article and call it a day.

Simmons is a good guy, great writer and funny as hell, but I wouldn't exactly take his words on bball as gospel.

[corpgator]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

Not really. Every game came down to a couple of possessions except for game 5, which just snowballed out of control.

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

Ibaka is getting paid All Star money for not being an All-star. If anyone should go that is the one right there. KMart is no James Harden. He is a quality player not an all star. Your logic to me just doesn't hold water. They trust their drafting? The purpose of drafting is to hit a home run with an all star caliber player. They did that already! Why would you get rid of him? No matter how good you are the draft is a crap shoot so when you land good young talent don't lose good young talent. See Reggie Jackson and Cole Aldrich their last two 1st rounders.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

Ibaka is getting paid All Star money for not being an All-star. If anyone should go that is the one right there. KMart is no James Harden. He is a quality player not an all star. Your logic to me just doesn't hold water. They trust their drafting? The purpose of drafting is to hit a home run with an all star caliber player. They did that already! Why would you get rid of him? No matter how good you are the draft is a crap shoot so when you land good young talent don't lose good young talent. See Reggie Jackson and Cole Aldrich their last two 1st rounders.

Your off base on the sole purpose of the draft in the salary cap era. It's a chance to get inexpensive labor. Your missing the point of financial flexibility. I also disagree with you about Ibaka. He is a very talented, very young 7 footer who has great athletic ability and huge upside. He also is an outstanding person. All those things are rare in the NBA and very valuable.

By the way I love how some of you use some media guys as the bar on whether this was a good move or not. I personally will side with Presti who has proven to be a pretty damn good GM.

[gatordee]

If I were OKC I would have tried tohang onto Harden. The experience that team got last year would have helped very much and you would have had a very young and talented team. Just like I believe the Magic screwed up by replacing some of their team when they lost to the Lakers. Howeve, not quite the same situation.

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

Your off base on the sole purpose of the draft in the salary cap era. It's a chance to get inexpensive labor. Your missing the point of financial flexibility. I also disagree with you about Ibaka. He is a very talented, very young 7 footer who has great athletic ability and huge upside. He also is an outstanding person. All those things are rare in the NBA and very valuable.

By the way I love how some of you use some media guys as the bar on whether this was a good move or not. I personally will side with Presti who has proven to be a pretty damn good GM.

The great thing is time will tell and sooner then later. If OKC doesn't make it back to the finals this year there we will know.

[tupacbiff]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

Simmons is a good guy, great writer and funny as hell, but I wouldn't exactly take his words on bball as gospel.

Duh

[gatordd]

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

[corpgator]

45 from Harden last night.

Kobe drops 40 and Lakers lose. Paul absolutely destroyed them.

I think we're going to be declaring Harden the best 2 guard in the league by the end of the year.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by gatordd

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

[tupacbiff]

The mods should just eliminate any nba post because the masses are so clueless.

[gatordd]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

I never said he wasn't respected I said he is terrible, especially in big games when it matters. The guy can score the rock, no doubt but putting 30 on the bottom teams in the NBA isn't the same thing as being a piece for a title contender. It's about winning championships and harden on the roster gave them the best chance to do that as of now.

Sure they could add some pieces to get back at contention but using the salary cap as your argument is silly. Ie heat lakers celtics All spent big money to win. You're assuming they for sure get another player of hardens ability. if the argument is too many guys needing the ball in their hand then how do you explain mr chuck himself, russell westbrook. he kills durants game as much as he helps it.

If you spend your whole time worried about being cap locked you miss the point, it's not about building when you are ready to win now. It's not like they don't have a legit big in Ibaka. I understand that a max deal for harden would of made additions impossible but they moved the wrong guy if that's their concern. we will see how it plays out.

if they don't make it to the western conference finals this year do you keep your argument? I'll be interested to see.

[gatordd]

Originally Posted by tupacbiff

The mods should just eliminate any nba post because the masses are so clueless.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by gatordd

I never said he wasn't respected I said he is terrible. It's about winning championships and harden on the roster gave them the best chance to do that as of now.

Sure they could add some pieces to get back at contention but using the salary cap as your argument is silly. Ie heat lakers celtics All spent big money to win. You're assuming they for sure get another player of hardens ability. if the argument is too many guys needing the ball in their hand then how do you explain mr chuck himself, russell westbrook. he kills durants game as much as he helps it.

If you spend your whole time worried about being cap locked you miss the point, it's not about building when you are ready to win now. It's not like they don't have a legit big in Ibaka. I understand that a max deal for harden would of made additions impossible but they moved the wrong guy if that's their concern. we will see how it plays out.

Calling Martin terrible means you are clueless. He is one of the top five efficient scorers in the NBA today. Fantastic coaches like Brooks and Pop love him. He is not Harden a completely different player. Someone who can score without having to have the ball in his hands a ton. Until last year where he tried to play with an injured shoulder for awhile he had averaged over 20 ppg for five straight years.

You lose all credibility when u call a player like that horrible. No problem with the argument that OKC is better with Harden all I have tried to inform you guy's is that it wasn't about being cheap. There were several factors and at the end of the day I think it will work out for all parties. Harden wanted to start and be the man, the Thunder don't have to worry about luxury cap penalties or on the court chemistry issues.

Lastly, none of this is my opinion, I happen to have family and friends at every level in the NBA and that includes certain people and players in OKC. But you keep throwing crap against the wall like you know something. I just happen to KNOW you and Tupac are off base.

[gatordd]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

Calling Martin terrible means you are clueless. He is one of the top five efficient scorers in the NBA today. Fantastic coaches like Brooks and Pop love him. He is not Harden a completely different player. Someone who can score without having to have the ball in his hands a ton. Until last year where he tried to play with an injured shoulder for awhile he had averaged over 20 ppg for five straight years.

You lose all credibility when u call a player like that horrible. No problem with the argument that OKC is better with Harden all I have tried to inform you guy's is that it wasn't about being cheap. There were several factors and at the end of the day I think it will work out for all parties. Harden wanted to start and be the man, the Thunder don't have to worry about luxury cap penalties or on the court chemistry issues.

Lastly, none of this is my opinion, I happen to have family and friends at every level in the NBA and that includes certain people and players in OKC. But you keep throwing crap against the wall like you know something. I just happen to KNOW you and Tupac are off base.

I promise you, I have watched Martin his entire career. It doesn't matter how efficient he is. He completely disapears when he is needed. Numbers do not always tell the story. Watching the games does That's why I can form my own opinion because I actually watch the games.

I'm not saying that there weren't other factors than money. I'm saying the money factor is a bad reason and will in the end hurt okc.

[sHiNeR2]

Originally Posted by gatordd

I promise you, I have watched Martin his entire career. It doesn't matter how efficient he is. He completely disapears when he is needed. Numbers do not always tell the story. Watching the games does That's why I can form my own opinion because I actually watch the games.

I'm not saying that there weren't other factors than money. I'm saying the money factor is a bad reason and will in the end hurt okc.

Of course he disappears, he's not a franchise player. That's doesn't put him anywhere near terrible.