Draftexpress evaluation of Patric Young

[InstiGATOR1]

Draftexpress has an on going series of best NBA prospects by conference WITH INCOMING FROSH OMITTED. Patric Young's draft evaluation was written by Kyle Nelson. I really like their evaluations because they are not a future opposing coach or a recruiting service seeking access to the player. Thus their evaluations are to the point in both positive and negative aspects of each player.

Young is called the 3rd best prospect in the SEC [AGAIN WITH INCOMING FROSH OMITTED] behinds B.J. Young and Pressey. I am skeptical about ranking Patric Young behind B.J. Young and particularly Pressey. Pressey is a fine college players, but is listed at 5'11" and not many guys under 6' are NBA prospects. Also B.J. Young is listed at 6'3" and that is a bit short for an NBA SG. I think I would list Patric Young and Stokes above at least Pressey and maybe B.J. Young too. Also maybe their next prospect 6'6" Caldwell-Pope of UGa is a better NBA guard prospect than either B.J. Young or Pressey.

Still the evaluation of Patric Young on its own is interesting. Here is the link:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patric-Young-5746/

and here is the first paragraph:

Patric Young was a legitimate NBA prospect before he stepped foot on Florida's campus, a McDonald's All-American who was expected to make an immediate contribution for the Gators. Yet, he struggled initially, posting a remarkably unproductive freshman season that left scouts and fans alike scratching their heads. During his sophomore year, Young improved, but he still struggled with bouts of inconsistency. The question entering his junior year remains: will Patric Young's basketball ability ever catch up with his elite physical and athletic profile?

[tampajack1]

One thing not addressed by Kyle Nelson (probably because he hasn't seen Patric play much) is that Patric got a lot of touches in the low post where he chose not to try to score. My guess is that his percentage of attempts to score when he got the ball in the low post last season was lower than just about any other big-time low post player in college hoops. It was frustrating to watch Patric get the ball on the low left-side block, spin to his right and pass up what could have been a dunk to instead throw it out to the perimeter. The so-called experts who did not watch the Gators play last season can place all the blame on Florida's shot-happy guards, but the reality is that the reason for Patric's low shot count is a little more complex. Macklin and Tyus used to score when they got the ball in the low post, and they played with the same shot-happy guards.

[ReggieNelson]

i think its pretty much dead on. he needs to improve on his post game, footwork and rebounding. I believe Beal outrebounded him last year.

[Bullis33]

PY is doing just fine. Expect a big year from him...something like 13 and 7 averages and a block or so a game...

[REM08]

Originally Posted by ReggieNelson

i think its pretty much dead on. he needs to improve on his post game, footwork and rebounding. I believe Beal outrebounded him last year.

I thought so also. I knew he hadn't been a prolific rebounder, but I was struck by the stats that were pointed out like him averaging 5.7 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes (if I read that right).

I like Patric, but this year I'd like to see his play be as imposing as his physical stature is. College basketball players just aren't build like he is - NFL defensive ends are (although I still contend he plays like he's somewhat muscle-bound at times). He had some great games last year - even against some of the nations top big men. I remember some gator fans (I think) using the looks like tarzan plays like Jane mantra with him at times last year. Obviously thats stating things pretty strongly, but a move towards physical dominance (especially with rebounding) would really take him to a new level this year.

[jmac83]

If he stops trying to draw charges from 6-foot guards, that will be a start. Other teams in the SEC could see he didn't trust himself as a shot-blocker last year.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by Bullis33

PY is doing just fine. Expect a big year from him...something like 13 and 7 averages and a block or so a game...

Well last season Young's per game numbers were:

Young11-12: 26.5 min, 10.2 points, 6.4 rebounds, 0.8 blocks

In addition he shot 61.8% from the field and 59.3% from the line.

Horford and Noah's Soph seasons that made them top picks were:

Horford05-06: 25.9 min, 11.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 1.7 blocks
Noah05-06: 24.9 min, 14.2 poionts, 7.1 rebounds, 2.4 blocks

So Young in his much criticized Soph season was maybe a couple of points, one rebound and a blocked shot worse that Horford and Noah as Sophs.

[tegator80]

Boy, we are starting the "Is PY a Lottery Pick" discussion early this year. To me, he is like Prather: someone with incredible athleticism that hasn't translated into his game. Too much has been projected on PY. All they see is his build and say "can't miss in the NBA". What people can't seem to see is his height, 6-8. While he may be a monster this year in college ball by being more consistent, his game is very limited for certain NBA success. There are plenty of NBA players who can match his measurables but have a better all-around game.

Right now, probably his best projection is Patrick Patterson. Patrick is impressively built but also has a mid-range jumper and still comes off the bench. If PY develops more moves away from the baseline then I can see good things in the NBA. The question is did he develop any more things in his game?

[REM08]

Originally Posted by tegator80

Boy, we are starting the "Is PY a Lottery Pick" discussion early this year. To me, he is like Prather: someone with incredible athleticism that hasn't translated into his game. Too much has been projected on PY. All they see is his build and say "can't miss in the NBA". What people can't seem to see is his height, 6-8. While he may be a monster this year in college ball by being more consistent, his game is very limited for certain NBA success. There are plenty of NBA players who can match his measurables but have a better all-around game.

Right now, probably his best projection is Patrick Patterson. Patrick is impressively built but also has a mid-range jumper and still comes off the bench. If PY develops more moves away from the baseline then I can see good things in the NBA. The question is did he develop any more things in his game?

I agree with the Prather comparison in that both are relatively raw and unpolished offensively, also physical specimens, but I'm not sure Young is as athletic as Prather is. I know that sounds weird to say, but the more I watch him, the more I wonder. I just don't see tons of coordination out of him. He's not very fluid in his motions - you know, when guys make things look smooth and effortless. As is probably apparent, I'm not really sure how to describe what I mean and some of you may disagree in the first place.

I was going to disagree with the Patterson comparison, but Patterson didn't really show/develop much of his outside game until his Junior year - which we're obviously yet to see from Young. I would say Patterson was much more polished on offense. I've always thought a good projection for Young is Ben Wallace.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tegator80

Boy, we are starting the "Is PY a Lottery Pick" discussion early this year. To me, he is like Prather: someone with incredible athleticism that hasn't translated into his game. Too much has been projected on PY. All they see is his build and say "can't miss in the NBA". What people can't seem to see is his height, 6-8. While he may be a monster this year in college ball by being more consistent, his game is very limited for certain NBA success. There are plenty of NBA players who can match his measurables but have a better all-around game.

Right now, probably his best projection is Patrick Patterson. Patrick is impressively built but also has a mid-range jumper and still comes off the bench. If PY develops more moves away from the baseline then I can see good things in the NBA. The question is did he develop any more things in his game?

Wow did you miss my post immediately above yours? Young's numbers are marginally worse as a Soph than two guys who went in top 10. Additionally, Young measured 6'9" in shoe in high school compared to Horford who measured 6'9.25" and Young has a better wing span.

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by REM08

I agree with the Prather comparison in that both are relatively raw and unpolished offensively, also physical specimens, but I'm not sure Young is as athletic as Prather is. I know that sounds weird to say, but the more I watch him, the more I wonder. I just don't see tons of coordination out of him. He's not very fluid in his motions - you know, when guys make things look smooth and effortless. As is probably apparent, I'm not really sure how to describe what I mean and some of you may disagree in the first place.

I was going to disagree with the Patterson comparison, but Patterson didn't really show/develop much of his outside game until his Junior year - which we're obviously yet to see from Young. I would say Patterson was much more polished on offense. I've always thought a good projection for Young is Ben Wallace.

Young is a good athlete in that he's strong, can run well and leap quickly. He's just not a polished basketball player yet. He got by on physical ability too much at the high school level and he's still learning how to play in the post.

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Wow did you miss my post immediately above yours? Young's numbers are marginally worse as a Soph than two guys who went in top 10. Additionally, Young measured 6'9" in shoe in high school compared to Horford who measured 6'9.25" and Young has a better wing span.

Noah and Horford were fabulous players as sophomores. They excelled at all of the aspects of the game. Patric was a pretty good player as a sophomore.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tampajack1

Noah and Horford were fabulous players as sophomores. They excelled at all of the aspects of the game. Patric was a pretty good player as a sophomore.

If you think scoring a couple of points less, grabbing one rebound less and blocking one less shot than Horford/Noah averaged as Soph makes Young only pretty good compared to Noah and Horford being fabulous, you have a pretty confusing measurement scale. Of course the guys that pick college players for the NBA do not use your metric and thus viewed all three as first round picks after their Soph seasons.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by REM08

I agree with the Prather comparison in that both are relatively raw and unpolished offensively, also physical specimens, but I'm not sure Young is as athletic as Prather is. I know that sounds weird to say, but the more I watch him, the more I wonder. I just don't see tons of coordination out of him. He's not very fluid in his motions - you know, when guys make things look smooth and effortless. As is probably apparent, I'm not really sure how to describe what I mean and some of you may disagree in the first place.

I was going to disagree with the Patterson comparison, but Patterson didn't really show/develop much of his outside game until his Junior year - which we're obviously yet to see from Young. I would say Patterson was much more polished on offense. I've always thought a good projection for Young is Ben Wallace.

I can't disagree with you on how he could be projected, just that I don't think a "Ben Wallace" type will be a lottery pick. I was using Patterson mainly as an example of athletic player with a better NBA game and is still more of a role player. It is TOUGH to break through in the NBA from college success.

Insti, I am much more of a eye-test person than a stats supporter. To me, Horford developed a game that showed a high basketball IQ and nimble footwork. Noah just outhustled everyone. Young still needs to find his comfort zone and run with it. Now who knows whether that will translate into NBA success, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if we rode his broad shoulders to the SEC title.

[REM08]

^^^ You may be right about the "Ben Wallace" type not being a lottery pick. However, I do think Patric can be one. However (again) and like you're saying, I don't think his comparable numbers to Horford make him a comparable player.

[GatorChoice]

Originally Posted by Bullis33

PY is doing just fine. Expect a big year from him...something like 13 and 7 averages and a block or so a game...

I think we'll be fine with the first figure, but sure hope he's at least closer to double figures in rebounding.

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

If you think scoring a couple of points less, grabbing one rebound less and blocking one less shot than Horford/Noah averaged as Soph makes Young only pretty good compared to Noah and Horford being fabulous, you have a pretty confusing measurement scale. Of course the guys that pick college players for the NBA do not use your metric and thus viewed all three as first round picks after their Soph seasons.

IMHO, your reliance primarily on statistics is ridiculous. Noah would have been the #1 pick in the NBA draft if he had come out after his sophomore year, and Horford would have been a lottery pick. Patric might have been taken in the 1st round based on his perceived upside. Do you think there is a chance in hell that the Gators would have won their national titles with 2 Patric Youngs at the big man positions instead of Horford and Noah? If so, IMHO, you are completely off the wall. Noah and Horford were basketball players; i.e., great defenders and rebounders, great ballhandlers and passers. They knew how to play the game. That is why they are excelling in the NBA. Of course, you are the guy who keeps saying that Erving Walker is slow and unathletic.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tampajack1

IMHO, your reliance primarily on statistics is ridiculous. Noah would have been the #1 pick in the NBA draft if he had come out after his sophomore year, and Horford would have been a lottery pick. Patric might have been taken in the 1st round based on his perceived upside. Do you think there is a chance in hell that the Gators would have won their national titles with 2 Patric Youngs at the big man positions instead of Horford and Noah? If so, IMHO, you are completely off the wall. Noah and Horford were basketball players; i.e., great defenders and rebounders, great ballhandlers and passers. They knew how to play the game. That is why they are excelling in the NBA. Of course, you are the guy who keeps saying that Erving Walker is slow and unathletic.

Well actually, this is an interesting thought experiment. If Young were playing with either Noah or Horford plus a good PG like Green and a knock down shooter like Humphrey and a true SF like Brewer, would UF have won two titles. I think a good case can be made for this. Young could certainly handle the scoring and rebounding needed. You are correct that Horford was a better ball handler.

The passing issue is really interesting. Young has been criticized for passing the ball out of the post some, but had the guards receiving his passes knocked down the open 3 more often as Green and Humphrey did for Horford and Noah, Young might be viewed as as good a passer.

We could have good discussion on this, if you were not so hung up on E. Walker and your imagination of what he was. He is gone. It is not worth discussing his athletic limitations except say in a how UF v. UK matches up differently this year thread.

[REM08]

At the risk of appearing like I'm trying to pander to the local audience here (doubtful I ever get accused of that), I think I could have started in place of Noah or Horford and still ended up with two titles. I'm not sure that should be the litmus test for comparing two players.

[GatorLurker]

One thing that has hindered PY's rebounding is that the Gators had a serious lack of depth at the post. If you aren't too worried about picking up a foul you can be a bit more "aggressive" going after a rebound. He had to play less aggressively.