(Help)Cardio splits: HIIT vs "steady state"

[slmdLS1]

Dream/Leaf/whoever....i used to be able to understand the numbers, but i need some help remembering. Show me a comparison of say, 3 miles/30 min jog/run, in the sense of cutting fat calories, HIIT style vs "steady state" jog.

Im still trying to cut bodyfat more than lose weight so to speak...and im having a hard time convincing myself to do HIIT style rather than a constant jog...I have been doing jogs steady for so long because i wanted to adjust for some 5k's i used to run, now im more concerned about cutting some serious bodyfat, say 5-6% down to 9% as quick as i can.

I know you cant target fat loss, but its the ole spare tire around the waist im trying to hit...and i know what you'll say, and the diet/calorie deficit is in check.

[oI2ange]

i think that intense workouts such as HIIT burn more calories than steady state jogs...but i'm not positive.

[Dreamliner]

In my view the two are a wash. Yes, HIIT burns more calories *per minute.* Problem is you can't do as much of it as steady-state. Yes, HIIT yields a greater EPOC or afterburn effect. But it really doesn't amount to much.

Little known: walking burns nearly as many calories as running.

[slmdLS1]

the after burn is where the fat burning advantage is, correct?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

the after burn is where the fat burning advantage is, correct?

Yes, but here's where you need to see through the marketing. The afterburn that accrues from your typical HIIT workout may amount to a few dozen calories. Weigh that against the extra time you are able to spend in steady-state.

Bottom-line: exercise just doesn't burn that many calories. Do it for its documented health benefits.

[slmdLS1]

well, my target area is belly button and down 2-3"...what to do? easing back into Keto so my diet is ok, still fast a day a week, and i thought if i modified my cardio routine it might help...

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

well, my target area is belly button and down 2-3"...what to do? easing back into Keto so my diet is ok, still fast a day a week, and i thought if i modified my cardio routine it might help...

Every man I know carries most of his fat around the belly button. Do you mean you have 2-3'' to go ?

If so, then you can lose that entirely on calorie deficit. You just have to go as low as you need to go for as long as you need to go.

Now, certainly some people have success on the exercise side. If you can ensure that you will not succumb to exercise-induced hunger or reward eating - if you continue to eat PER USUAL - then yes, any exercise added will add to your calorie deficit.

I just don't want anyone to suffer under the delusion that they HAVE to exercise more and more to lose that last bit of 'stubborn belly fat.'

Also, from the standpoint of a non-athlete, HIIT is bordering on a fad. If you enjoy it do it. But it ain't magical.

[slmdLS1]

belly button and below 2-3", between the "adonis belts" if you will...referring to the problem area...almost below the bottom abs. i am about a size 33" jeans, maybe squeeze into a 32.

some days with this keto(mostly salads, chicken, green beans, kale/greens, protein shakes), i have a hard time getting 1100 calories...i know that's low. is that what you mean going low for as long as i need to go?

I want it gone! show me a plan to knock off 5% BF in roughly a month and i'll do it! lol....and i'll even use an EC stack to help get there...

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

belly button and below 2-3", between the "adonis belts" if you will...referring to the problem area...almost below the bottom abs. i am about a size 33" jeans, maybe squeeze into a 32.

some days with this keto(mostly salads, chicken, green beans, kale/greens, protein shakes), i have a hard time getting 1100 calories...i know that's low. is that what you mean going low for as long as i need to go?

I want it gone! show me a plan to knock off 5% BF in roughly a month and i'll do it! lol....and i'll even use an EC stack to help get there...

If you really are at 1,100 calories weight should be falling off of you. That's way below your resting energy expenditure, to say nothing of your activity-related energy expenditure.

And in any case, size 33 ain't bad for a guy. I'm 6-0 145, have around a 29'' waist, when measured around the belly button, but wear 31'' jeans.

[slmdLS1]

weeks ago i slipped on the dieting, but nothing major. We're talking a snickers or two, maybe 2 oatmeal pies a day or something like that, not 2500+ calories...1 meal days, firehouse or subway, the break up meals a guy barely eats when he loses a girl, lol.

...but since getting back to the keto this week im down 6 lbs.

I run in the hot afternoons so sweating is crazy. You say it should be falling off, dont forget im down 115ish lbs....the farther i get from my start(300) the harder it is to lose, right? I was probably close to 33-35% bodyfat then...

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

weeks ago i slipped on the dieting, but nothing major. We're talking a snickers or two, maybe 2 oatmeal pies a day or something like that, not 2500+ calories...1 meal days, firehouse or subway, the break up meals a guy barely eats when he loses a girl, lol.

...but since getting back to the keto this week im down 6 lbs.

I run in the hot afternoons so sweating is crazy. You say it should be falling off, dont forget im down 115ish lbs....the farther i get from my start(300) the harder it is to lose, right? I was probably close to 33-35% bodyfat then...

Well, you've made FANTASTIC strides. F*** the people who didn't think you could do it.

The are two two reasons your weight loss slows down as you lose a lot of weight: (1) the smaller you get, the less energy your body requires and (2) the fewer calories you burn during exercise.

BTW, this is why those little slip-ups, like you say you just suffered, may be even more disastrous as you near your goal. Even though you're a much smaller man now ... you can still eat like you used to when you take your eye off the ball.


BTW, with all the weight you've lost, do you have some loose skin on the lower abs ?

[slmdLS1]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Well, you've made FANTASTIC strides. F*** the people who didn't think you could do it.

The are two two reasons your weight loss slows down as you lose a lot of weight: (1) the smaller you get, the less energy your body requires and (2) the fewer calories you burn during exercise.

BTW, this is why those little slip-ups, like you say you just suffered, may be even more disastrous as you near your goal. Even though you're a much smaller man now ... you can still eat like you used to when you take your eye off the ball.


BTW, with all the weight you've lost, do you have some loose skin on the lower abs ?

some loose skin. but i've seen pics of guys on bb.com/etc that have it bad and had $7k surgeries...its not too bad since its been a long journey type loss for me, instead of a roid ridden 2 month binge leaving tons of loose skin.

situps/crunches/planks? bit of a bad bad after a while of these...

[Dreamliner]

I'd say you're doing great. And you can't have that much further to go.

In any case, plan NOW for the end. Engineer a soft landing. Eat NOW the foods you anticipate eating for the rest of your life.

And if you have a highly-specific weight goal, when you get there, allow yourself a buffer zone, say, a ten pound range. It's okay to fluctuate. You will fluctuate. Only, when you hit the top of that range you don't panic and think< "Oh no! Oh no! It's coming back on again!"

All you do is tighten up for a week or two and your good to go. Takes the pressure off. Remember that there was no point in taking all the weight off only to gain it back.

[slmdLS1]

I'm at 188 now, I live like I have a 10lb buffer, but instead of a weight specific, i want that bodyfat goal of 9%. Honestly i don't care if im anywhere between 180-210, i just want that single digit BF...

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

I'm at 188 now, I live like I have a 10lb buffer, but instead of a weight specific, i want that bodyfat goal of 9%. Honestly i don't care if im anywhere between 180-210, i just want that single digit BF...

Well, I can just about guarantee you you'll get there quick on 1,100 calories. But I don't think you need to go that low. Offhand I'd guess you could add a few calories back in and sort of nestle in.

And by all means, walk as much as you care to.

[slmdLS1]

I'll run 3 miles minimum, 4-6 times a week...roughly 2-3 of those days I'll walk another 3....so i'll get in a good 18-27 miles a week in. Since it was a $9 investment, and needed one for ice packs, i bought one of those Golds gym sweat belts too...even though it'll be thought of as a fad, it might work to raise the body temp around the love handles, i dunno.

[LeafUF]

To the original question there really is no consensus school of thought that I can tell. Doing hiit will burn more per minute but can't be done nearly as long as liss and epoc is overrated. So it may come down to preference and available time. Layne Norton recently wrote an article stating that cycling and sprints were the best cardio for hypertrophy bc they most closely mimic bodybuilding movements.

As far as getting to 9% bf I'd work out the numbers and make a plan from there.

Oh and as far as the an belt thing tnation recently had an article on using them but only as a supplement in an do everything you can sort of way. Probably not necessary but may help increase circulation to areas of notoriously poor circulation according to the article.

Good luck.

[Zendra]

Originally Posted by slmdLS1

I'm at 188 now, I live like I have a 10lb buffer, but instead of a weight specific, i want that bodyfat goal of 9%. Honestly i don't care if im anywhere between 180-210, i just want that single digit BF...

My thoughts exactly. Some people tend to go with just the ideal weight without factoring in their body mass. It's all about percentage. Some would work hard to lose a target amount of weight when the more important thing is to lose a target percentage weight. The same goes for body fat goals.

[ATL_Gator]

I will go against the grain a bit here.

IMO, forget a target bf% or weight. Those are just numbers. The mirror is all I care about. And I am right there with you. I am fighting the belly right now as well.

Reasons:
First. As a fat man, I was WAY wrong on my initial targets. I thought 200 lb was as light as I would ever want to go. Well, I am currently 185, and still not there. Attempting to get down to 180 and see where I am at then.

Second. I once read a post on stronglifts' forum (which is locked now, jerk off) from a guy who supposedly worked in the medical field and dealt with body fat readings and what not. He compared all the possible ways there are to determine how much body fat you have, and his conclusion was that most of them were complete crap. The guy was ripped from the photos I saw of him (assuming he wasn't lying). He said that in those photos he was roughly 8-9% body fat per one of the 7 location pinch tests. He then measured himself using DEX-A or something like that (most accurate) and was 12 or 13%. Basically, he said that a healthy, functioning brain will hold typically about 4 or 5% body fat by itself. Any of the other popular methods were just estimates of a very difficult measurement, and they all have a VERY high amount of error in them. Bio-impedance measurements are the worst, supposedly.

EDIT: forgot the overall topic. IMO, just walk or do steady state. In theory, HIIT burns more calories if done properly, but most people are not capable of pushing themselves that hard and end up slacking off. Especially near the end. Thus the benefit of HIIT is reduced/eliminated.

[LeafUF]

Atl I agree that the mirror matters most however it's really hard to quantify the mirror and make a plan to get to your desired look in the mirror.

Personally I have started using measurements more than anything to determine progress. But i use weight and bf% to set goals and make a plan to reach them.