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Battery Advances - Iron based FLow Batteries

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    They are not ones to make false promises. Large scale production to begin in 26 with full fleet rollout of new batteries by 29.

    So many battery advances being made I figured we could do one thread to keep track of the tech as it moves forward. major things happening with sodium batteries too but those seem further away in production

    Samsung shows off battery tech it says will see you gone in nine minutes (msn.com)

    Samsung SDI, the Korean giant’s battery biz, on Tuesday promised EV batteries that can charge to 80 percent capacity in a mere nine minutes, plus models that can perform at that level for 20 years.…

    The ultra-fast charging battery will enter production in 2026. The long-lived product will start rolling off factory floors in 2029.

    Samsung SDI teased the tech in March of this year. At the 37th Electric Vehicle Symposium & Exposition (EVS37) taking place this week in Seoul, it is also displaying an anode-free all solid-state battery (ASB) with a 900 watt-hour per liter density, which it eyes to start mass-producing in 2027.

    Solid-state batteries are considered a significant step up from lithium-ion due to their higher energy density, faster charging capabilities and perceived safety as ASBs are less likely to catch fire.
     
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  2. DesertGator

    DesertGator VIP Member

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    Good stuff! I'd be interested in seeing the specs on these as they get closer to release. I'm curious as to how they've managed to overcome the high heat dissipation issue (not the venting, but the actual heat created as a waste product during charge.)
     
  3. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    I would assume by liquid cooling. My older Ford Escape Hybrid has a separate air conditioning evaporator and blower motor in the rear cargo area to chill the HVTB. My newer model Lexus hybrid draws in cabin air to cool the big battery.
     
  4. DesertGator

    DesertGator VIP Member

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    Not quite what I mean. You're describing another way of siphoning off the heat dissipation created in charging. What I mean is the generation of the heat itself. In electronic applications, heat dissipation is a form of power loss/inefficiency. From the original article, it infers a more efficient mechanism for charging is in play based on the time to charge.
     
  5. G8tas

    G8tas GC Hall of Fame

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    Solid state batteries will be the future standard. BMW has been pouring a lot of money into research
     
  6. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Isn't the current cost for fast charging north of $140.00?!?!
     
  7. WC53

    WC53 GC Hall of Fame

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    Will be interesting to see how charging stations adapt to the current requirements.

    But agree, given Samsungs status as a leader in high quality cylindrical cells, this is big news.
     
  8. demosthenes

    demosthenes Premium Member

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    Maybe somewhere but I can fast charge near me as low as $.18 per kWh which means a full charge (which you never do) would run me $24 and I have one of the largest batteries on the market. Even assuming $.60 per kWh it would be $79, no where close to $140. Regardless, the vast majority of your charging will come from home which are always cheaper than the fast charging locations.
     
  9. GolphinGator

    GolphinGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I am more interested in longer life batteries. I considered a hybrid when we replace the Toyota Rav 4 my wife drives but don't like the idea of needing it needing new batteries at 100k miles and costing up to 8k. The value of the car is shot at that point and I would not be willing to put that kind of money in a car with that many miles. With a gas powered car like the Rav 4 we have now you can get 200k miles plus out of one without major repairs if you wanted to.
     
  10. Trickster

    Trickster VIP Member

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    Thanks. Much cheaper than gas. I'm in Asheville and a guy I was having a cigar with gave me that figure today, and it was pure coincidence that this thread popped up when I got home. We go back and forth to Florida, so an ev hasn't been on our radar so far.
     
  11. GatorJMDZ

    GatorJMDZ gatorjack VIP Member

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    Next to no one is replacing Rav 4 hybrid batteries at 100K miles. That's the minimum warranty requirement in the non-green states, not the life expectancy. The battery lasts far longer than that.

    BTW, I just checked. New Toyota hybrids come with a 10 year/150K mile warranty on the battery.

    Toyota Battery Warranty
     
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  12. GolphinGator

    GolphinGator GC Hall of Fame

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    I was just reading that also. If we go with another Rav 4 I am going to consider the hybrid with the warranty being that long on the batteries.
     
  13. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    OT - but encouraging...2023 may be peak emissions year if trends continue. I fear they underestimate the increase in power demand from ai and data centers

    We might be closer to changing course on climate change than we realized (msn.com)

    Last year, more solar panels were installed in China — the world’s largest carbon emitter — than the US has installed in its entire history. More electric vehicles were sold worldwide than ever. Energy efficiency is improving. Dozens of countries are widening the gap between their economic growth and their greenhouse gas emissions. And governments stepped up their ambitions to curb their impact on the climate, particularly when it comes to potent greenhouse gases like methane. If these trends continue, global emissions may actually start to decline.

    Climate Analytics, a think tank, published a report last November that raised the intriguing possibility that the worst of our impact on the climate might be behind us. “We find there is a 70% chance that emissions start falling in 2024 if current clean technology growth trends continue and some progress is made to cut non-CO2 emissions,” authors wrote. “This would make 2023 the year of peak emissions.”

    “It was actually a result that surprised us as well,” said Neil Grant, a climate and energy analyst at Climate Analytics and a co-author of the report. “It’s rare in the climate space that you get good news like this.” The inertia behind this trend toward lower emissions is so immense that even politics can only slow it down, not stop it. Many of the worst-case climate scenarios imagined in past decades are now much less likely.

    The United States, the world’s second largest greenhouse gas emitter, has already climbed down from its peak in 2005 and is descending further. In March, Carbon Brief conducted an analysis of how US greenhouse gas emissions would fare under a second Trump or a second Biden administration.
     
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  14. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    still in the lab but the testing is off the charts. no lithium required.

    can someone tell me what would stop tech like this from being adapted and how long to go from lab to showroom?

    can ai modeling speed up the testing and development timeframes?

    Scientists build battery that can charge in seconds | The Independent

    A team from South Korea made the breakthrough with next-generation sodium batteries, which are both cheaper and safer than the conventional lithium-ion batteries found in smartphones and electric cars. Sodium (Na) is also 500 times more abundant than lithium, while also holding the potential for greater charge and efficiency than its Li-ion counterpart.

    Until now, Na-ion batteries have faced limitations preventing them from being adopted on any significant scale, including long charging times and a lack of storage capacity. Researchers from the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) were able to overcome these issues by developing a high-energy, high-power sodium-ion battery capable of rapid charging.
    ....................
    The new battery surpasses the energy density of commercial lithium-ion batteries and could be used in both EVs and consumer electronics.

    “The hybrid sodium-ion energy storage device [is] capable of rapid charging and achieving an energy density of 247 Wh/kg and a power density of 34,748 W/kg,” said Professor Jeung Ku Kang from KAIST’s department of materials science and engineering, who led the research. “[It] represents a breakthrough in overcoming the current limitations of energy storage systems,” he added, saying that he anticipated it would have “broader applications across various electronic devices”.
     
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  15. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    600 + mile range, 300+ miles on 10 minute charge. not sure what the vehicle was to get that mileage but they keep improving on the performance of the battery

    A Ford-linked EV battery partner is solving EV's biggest problem (msn.com)

    As per a report by Reuters, Chinese-based EV battery manufacturer Contemporary Amperex Technology Company (CATL) has unveiled a brand new lithium iron phosphate battery (LFP) battery design at the Beijing Auto Show.

    Dubbed the Shenxing Plus, the new battery boasts a driving range of more than 1,000 kilometers, or 621 miles of range on a single charge.

    According to CATL, the new LFP battery system is also capable of 370 miles of driving range after a quick 10-minute chargeup. In comparison, Tesla says that the lithium ion batteries used in its electric cars can gain up to just 200 miles after a 15-minute charge.

    The new batteries one-up the already-remarkable range and charging figures achieved by CATL's Shenxing SuperFast Charging batteries that were released in August 2023. The battery — which already sees applications in five models in China, has a driving range of over 434 miles on a single charge, and can gain up to 248 miles of range after spending just 10 minutes plugged into the EV charger.
     
  16. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    first commercial scale molten salt battery is under construction in Denmark. Heat up the molten salt with excess solar/wind, extract heat by making steam when energy is needed.

    World’s first molten salt energy storage facility launched in Denmark (msn.com)

    Danish company Hyme Energy has launched the world’s first energy storage project using molten hydroxide salt to store green energy. The project is called Molten Salt Storage – MOSS, and the energy storage facility opened in Esbjerg, Denmark.

    Søren Gade, chairman of the Danish Parliament and Port Esbjerg, officially inaugurated the facility at a ceremony hosted by Semco Maritime.
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    Hyme Energy is working towards scaling the technology for global markets. The newly inaugurated storage facility will undergo rigorous testing to demonstrate its capabilities.

    Following testing, the plan is to scale up the technology to industrial capacity, positioning it for sale on the global energy market. The aim is to commercialize it by 2026.
     
  17. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    will the demand for lithium fall off a cliff with these solid state batteries? it seems that Japan is ahead of the US in solid state batteries. Has Tesla started shifting in that direction yet?

    Nissan unveils plans to mass-produce EVs with next-generation battery technology to catch up to Tesla and BYD: 'A game-changer for making EV sales grow explosively' (msn.com)

    Nissan intends to mass-produce electric vehicles with state-of-the-art batteries in early 2029, officials announced on April 16 at a media tour of its partially constructed pilot plant southwest of Tokyo.

    The Japanese automaker was once at the forefront of the EV revolution when it released the Leaf in 2010 but has since fallen behind Tesla and BYD.

    However, Nissan believes it can vault itself back into the conversation with an updated battery that is "powerful, cheaper, safer, and faster to charge than the lithium-ion batteries in use today," according to the Associated Press.

    "We are finally in the phase of scaling up on our all-solid-state battery line," Corporate Vice President Shunichi Inamijima said. "Our all-solid-state battery technology is a game-changer for making EV sales grow explosively."
     
  18. l_boy

    l_boy 5500

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    I thought I’d recently read where functional solid state batteries were still a ways off. Seems like battery life was the issue.
     
  19. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Quantamscape with batteries in testing for nearly 2 years with major manufacturers

    VW - over 500k miles, 80% charge in 15 minutes, 400+ mile range

    Solid state: EV giants chase 'holy grail' of batteries | Reuters
    U.S. startup QuantumScape (QS.N), opens new tab, which has deals with six automakers including Volkswagen , has developed a semi-solid state cell with no anode that uses lithium metal, a ceramic separator and liquid electrolyte. The company says, opens new tab it could boost an EV's driving range from 350 miles to 400-500 miles, an increase of 14%-43%. The expected range increase is down from earlier estimates of 50%-80%.

    QuantumScape shipped its first prototype samples in late 2022, which VW said showed the battery could drive more than 500,000 miles without any noticeable loss of range and had a fast charging time to 80% capacity in 15 minutes.

    France's Blue Solutions (BOLL.PA), opens new tab is already selling solid state batteries for buses with a charging time of four hours, but is developing a new product for cars that uses a polymer electrolyte and ultra-thin lithium metal anode, aiming to have a charging time of less than 20 minutes and enabling a range increase of about 30% to nearly 1,000 km.

    The company says it aims to build a gigafactory for its new batteries by 2029 and has signed a joint development agreement with BMW (BMWG.DE)


    QuantumScape Brushes Off Solid-State Battery Skeptics - CleanTechnica
     
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  20. G8trGr8t

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    they seem to have overcome that problem. batttery tech is flying right now and advancements in materials are going to keep it that way. hard to commit major resources to build a factory when it is possible the tech will be obsolete by the time you get it built.

    here is a new battery from MIT made with organic materials that do not have to be mined for the cathode

    Cobalt-free batteries could power cars of the future | MIT News | Massachusetts Institute of Technology

    Battery energy storage developments that are electrifying the sector (msn.com)

    Meanwhile, a new development from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) could make Li-ion battery systems more environmentally sustainable. A group of MIT chemists recently developed a new battery using organic cathode materials, instead of critical metals that are more common in Li-ion batteries such as cobalt or nickel – materials that require expensive and environmentally damaging mining processes to obtain.

    The organic batteries are made with multiple layers of bis-tetraaminobenzoquinone, an organic molecule that forms strong hydrogen bonds, therefore making the material highly stable. The bonds also make the material incredibly insoluble, preventing the material from dissolving into the battery electrolyte and slowing degradation. The battery is stabilised with filler materials including cellulose and rubber, which further slow degradation of the battery.

    Speaking to the MIT news website, Mircea Dincă, W.M. Keck Professor of Energy at MIT, says that the technology “is already competitive with incumbent technologies, and it can save a lot of the cost and pain and environmental issues related to mining the metals that currently go into batteries.”

    With a capacity of 306 milliampere-hours per gram mass, the organic cathodes can deliver an energy density of 765 watt-hours per kilogram higher than most cobalt-based cathodes and charge-discharge in just six minutes. While the MIT researchers focused on this new material’s usefulness in EVs, it could soon have a major impact on grid-scale battery technologies.
     
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