336 Million abortions in China under one-child policy

[JerseyGator01]

It's really quite telling to me how rarely the media brings up this policy. A new report shows that 336 MILLION abortions have occurred in China since the enactment of their one-child policy in 1980. One of the few countries that out-aborts us in terms of sheer numbers.

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/03/15/report-336-million-abortions-under-chinas-one-child-policy/

From the link:

The health ministry in China released figures yesterday showing 336 million abortions have been carried out in the Asian nation since it first implemented the one-child population control policy.

Started in 1980, the policy, which prohibits most Chinese couples form having more than one baby and limits rural residents to two, has resulted in severe human rights abuses. Family planning officials frequently jail couples who refuse to comply, sentence them to house arrest or labor camps, revoke jobs or governmental support, use physical harassment or violence and often target other family members.

[David Shepherd]

My oldest son is on the wait list to adopt a Chinese girl. The wait is 12-18 months and he and his family are at the 5 month mark.

[rivergator]

My oldest son is on the wait list to adopt a Chinese girl. The wait is 12-18 months and he and his family are at the 5 month mark.

i've known two couples who have adopted from China. a lot of hassle, but they're very happy.

[GatorMid]

i've known two couples who have adopted from China. a lot of hassle, but they're very happy.

Same here.

[96Gatorcise]

just think what a mess that country would be with another 500 million people needing food, shelter, clothing etc

take every man,woman and child in the US and place them in China right now along with their 1.3 billion.... not good!

[David Shepherd]

Biggest thing is the expense-cost is anywhere from 25,000-30,000.

They have gone through the registration, home interview, home inspection, doing the fund raising now.

[JerseyGator01]

The imbalance between males and females has already created quite the mess. Where is NOW on this?

[David Shepherd]

NO Where

[NJG8tor]

It would have been better if those people had used protection so abortion wasnt necessary.

[MichiGator2002]

just think what a mess that country would be with another 500 million people needing food, shelter, clothing etc

take every man,woman and child in the US and place them in China right now along with their 1.3 billion.... not good!

It would be a mess with a future. Having a 60% male population means that demographically speaking it really doesn't.

[RayGator]

My goodness. The killing of 336 million babies is the most disturbing thing I've read on here in a long time.

And as others have mentioned I know a couple in my Church who have adopted 2 babies in China. I know it's been a time consuming process for them. But I had no idea how much money the process has cost them.

Also I have two other very good friends in my Church who have adopted 3 babies in the past from the Ukraine. Again I don't the cost of the process, including travel expenses etc but I do know it is a time consuming process. Including they never know for sure when they travel to Kiev just how many days they will have to spend there. It's not just like it's always a 3 day process or so; they just don't know how long they will be there going through enormous bureaucratic red tape etc. The youngest child they have now is about 8, I think. So recently they told me that they are contemplating adopting a 4th child in the Ukraine!

By the way, the oldest one they adopted is now about 20. He is one awesome young man! He is in his 2nd year of college. He was super in track and field sports in high school. He was born with a speech impediment but has overcome that. He wanted so very much to go to UF but just having an excellent academic record is just not good enough! Oh, and he's taking Russian in college. He hopes one day to be able to go visit the country of his birth.

[ufhomerj31]

It would have been better if those people had used protection so abortion wasnt necessary.

I suspect many are murdered due to their gender.

[NJG8tor]

I suspect many are murdered due to their gender.

I believe the article said "aborted."

[JerseyGator01]

In China, it really doesn't matter whether it's before birth or after birth when it comes to gender. Again, where's NOW and the liberal media on this? The double standard continues ...

CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

[108]

If only they had abstinence education

[MichiGator2002]

If only they had abstinence education

If only they were governed by a philosophy with any sense of human dignity.

[g8orbill]

ethnic cleansing

[jdrgator]

ethnic cleansing

Not really. But it has created a severe gender imbalance. Something like 119 boys to every 100 girls.

[108]

If only they were governed by a philosophy with any sense of human dignity.

Yes, then they'd be like us :roll:

[MichiGator2002]

Not really. But it has created a severe gender imbalance. Something like 119 boys to every 100 girls.

Which is basically societal, demographic suicide. They will implode under the weight of that debacle in a few generations even if they ended One Child today. It is why people wanly expecting to just settle in to a Chinese unipolar world after we lose our lease are in for such a surprise.

[SECund2nun]

I believe the article said "aborted."

Same thing.

[NJG8tor]

Same thing.

No, it's not. Murder is a legal or a moral conclusion. Abortion is a factual conclusion. Which do you think is more conducive to a rational discussion?

[wargunfan]

There are already over 100,000,000 Chinese men who cannot marry and have a family. They will be a dangerous demographic for that society. It will only get worse.

[chemgator]

i've known two couples who have adopted from China. a lot of hassle, but they're very happy.
Our Chinese baby turns three next week. We got her in Guangzhou in 2011, after a 4-year wait. We were told the costs would be $16k, but it turned out to be $27k or so (don't believe everything you hear). The tax credit is over $13k, though, so we got half the money back (crazy system, if you ask me). It's an amazing process when you finally go over there to pick up your baby.

[chemgator]

It's really quite telling to me how rarely the media brings up this policy. A new report shows that 336 MILLION abortions have occurred in China since the enactment of their one-child policy in 1980. One of the few countries that out-aborts us in terms of sheer numbers.

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/03/15/report-336-million-abortions-under-chinas-one-child-policy/

From the link:

The health ministry in China released figures yesterday showing 336 million abortions have been carried out in the Asian nation since it first implemented the one-child population control policy.

Started in 1980, the policy, which prohibits most Chinese couples form having more than one baby and limits rural residents to two, has resulted in severe human rights abuses. Family planning officials frequently jail couples who refuse to comply, sentence them to house arrest or labor camps, revoke jobs or governmental support, use physical harassment or violence and often target other family members.
There are ways around or through the one-child policy. The main two things they will do to people who try to have a second baby is to fire them (if they work for the state, and a lot of jobs that you might think are private enterprise are actually state-owned) and fine them. In bigger, affluent cities, the fine is $20,000 U.S., and in smaller towns, the fine is closer to $1,000.

Some Chinese get around the policy by using relatives who live out in the country (who do not have any children). When mommy starts showing, she gets shuffled off to her relative's house, where she is cloistered with the lady of the house. A few months later, the relative announces that she has had a baby, and momma goes back to the city she came from (without the baby).

[chemgator]

There are already over 100,000,000 Chinese men who cannot marry and have a family. They will be a dangerous demographic for that society. It will only get worse.
There is actually an alternative for Chinese men, if they have money. Many Chinese men have been going to poorer countries, like Vietnam, and marrying local women there and bringing them back to China. Poor Chinese men are out of luck.

They say that keeping a huge standing army in China is one of the ways that they are dealing with this problem, since soldiers may be less interested in marriage for a while if they are kept busy with the military life.

[chemgator]

Which is basically societal, demographic suicide. They will implode under the weight of that debacle in a few generations even if they ended One Child today. It is why people wanly expecting to just settle in to a Chinese unipolar world after we lose our lease are in for such a surprise.
One Child is not a well-enforced policy. If it were, the Chinese population would be expected to shrink in the coming years, not expand. China currently has something like 1.4 billion people, and they are projected to hit 1.7 billion people in the next few years. I don't think they have that much immigration to account for that kind of growth. And it takes about 2.2 - 2.3 children per parent to maintain population. One Child has been in effect since the early 1980's.

[rivergator]

Our Chinese baby turns three next week. We got her in Guangzhou in 2011, after a 4-year wait. We were told the costs would be $16k, but it turned out to be $27k or so (don't believe everything you hear). The tax credit is over $13k, though, so we got half the money back (crazy system, if you ask me). It's an amazing process when you finally go over there to pick up your baby.

I'm sure it is. Congrats.

[MichiGator2002]

One Child is not a well-enforced policy. If it were, the Chinese population would be expected to shrink in the coming years, not expand. China currently has something like 1.4 billion people, and they are projected to hit 1.7 billion people in the next few years. I don't think they have that much immigration to account for that kind of growth. And it takes about 2.2 - 2.3 children per parent to maintain population. One Child has been in effect since the early 1980's.

Goodness, are you honestly suggesting the problem with One Child is that it isn't thorough enough? It is an objectively evil offense against human decency and human dignity.

[NJG8tor]

Goodness, are you honestly suggesting the problem with One Child is that it isn't thorough enough? It is an objectively evil offense against human decency and human dignity.

Subjectively evil. We should have a similar policy for those on public assistance here.

[JerseyGator01]

You're making no sense. Please use complete sentences.

[Wormwood56]

No, it's not. Murder is a legal or a moral conclusion. Abortion is a factual conclusion. Which do you think is more conducive to a rational discussion?

And in both cases, the baby is dead...

[HudsonGator]

There are already over 100,000,000 Chinese men who cannot marry and have a family. They will be a dangerous demographic for that society. It will only get worse.

I am curious, where are you getting this number from?

[HudsonGator]

Goodness, are you honestly suggesting the problem with One Child is that it isn't thorough enough? It is an objectively evil offense against human decency and human dignity.

Famine isn't a real good outcome either.

While it may be harsh, it may be the lesser evil for the Chinese.

Long-term, as they become more and more prosperous, they won't need the policy.

It is a fact that once a society achieves a certain level of affluence, they quit making so many babies (e.g. South Korea).

[JerseyGator01]

Only on a Too Hot abortion thread can an undeniable fact be presented with not even a sentence of back-up. The tradition continues.

[HudsonGator]

Only on a Too Hot abortion thread can an undeniable fact be presented with not even a sentence of back-up. The tradition continues.

What are you referring to?

[JerseyGator01]

Your last sentence of post #34.

[HudsonGator]

Your last sentence of post #34.

If you think I'm wrong, show me.

But before you try, take a look at the demographic trends in Western Europe and South Korea compared with any third world country you like, then compare the per capita GDP's of those countries.

[lacuna]

I am curious, where are you getting this number from?

100,000,000 is an awfully high number. I, too would be interested in where he came up with it.

I went looking for numbers and this is what I found on http://www.forbes.com/sites/china/2011/05/13/chinas-growing-problem-of-too-many-single-men/

“…China will face a growing number of young men who will never marry due to the country’s one-child policy, which has resulted in a reported birth ratio of almost 120 boys for every 100 girls…By 2030, projections suggest that more than 25% of Chinese men in their late 30s will never have married. The coming marriage squeeze will likely be even more acute in the Chinese countryside, since the poor, uneducated and rural population will be more likely to lose out in the competition for brides.”

Sexuality in Question

There is great support on both sides of the argument as to whether homosexuality is a genetic or social outcome. However, if you are persuaded that homosexuality is in part influenced by social factors, then it is worthwhile to explore what impact such a large population of unmarried men might have on the issue of sexual orientation. There is already a thriving LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) community and subculture in China, but as ‘coming out’ continues to find acceptance and support in the younger generations, will this significant gender imbalance have any effect on the perspective of the LGBT community in the China’s future mainstream consciousness?

Anger and Frustration

The prospect of never finding a life partner can be one of the greatest fears in a person’s life. In a culture like China’s, where the mainstream societal expectation continues to put heavy emphasis on progeny, family network strength and family unit establishment as a benefit to status-building, for these one in four adult Chinese males, being single adds extra dimensions of undesirability. Deep personal anger and frustrations must inevitably be a byproduct of these societal pressures.

If these single men will be found predominantly in a single demographic–namely rural, poor and uneducated men–what we might see is the emergence of a distinct subgroup of people, or a new class segregation. An entire class of potentially angry, frustrated, relatively poor and uneducated single men can mean serious threats to societal stability, if this group builds a class identity that feels antagonized by society as a whole. China’s history is full of examples when a group lashes out in defiance and/or violence. This potential new class of single, frustrated men will number in the tens of millions in 2030.

[ThePlayer]

What an incredible waste of human life, with it's intellect and endless possibilities.

Our culture and society could have benefited greatly from all those China dolls in this country.

Nothing more beautiful than a mix of asian and white (or asian and whatever).

[gator1986]

Oh well....

[NJG8tor]

You're making no sense. Please use complete sentences.

The irony of your statement. Here's another beaut from you.

Only on a Too Hot abortion thread can an undeniable fact be presented with not even a sentence of back-up. The tradition continues.

[SECund2nun]

No, it's not. Murder is a legal or a moral conclusion. Abortion is a factual conclusion. Which do you think is more conducive to a rational discussion?

Exactly....murder is a moral conclusion and Abortion is the murder of babies therefore abortion is a moral conclusion.

[JerseyGator01]

Thanks for avoiding the topic (again) NJ. At least you're consistent.

[NJG8tor]

Thanks for avoiding the topic (again) NJ. At least you're consistent.

If you have a question, try asking; rather than another feeble attempt at snarkiness.

[NJG8tor]

Exactly....murder is a moral conclusion and Abortion is the murder of babies therefore abortion is a moral conclusion.

A fetus isn't a baby, it's a fetus.

[MichiGator2002]

A fetus isn't a baby, it's a fetus.

A fetus isn't a fetus either, it's a rationalization.

[NJG8tor]

A fetus isn't a fetus either, it's a rationalization.

No. It's a fetus. Why do you think killing it should be prohibited?

[reformedgator]

A fetus isn't a baby, it's a fetus.

Obviously you've never had children.

[MichiGator2002]

No. It's a fetus. Why do you think killing it should be prohibited?

Human decency and human dignity. Human life, from conception. Even as a zygote, this is only ever going to be a human being. There is not genetic or metaphysical wheel spinning to see if this will be a zebra or a giraffe or Cthulu. Human life, from conception. Slaughtered routinely by modern man for convenience.

By the way, the answer to China's "problems" to which their One Child abattoir is a "solution" ("final solution", anyway) is -- stop trying to create a society that requires you to bludgeon human nature into conformity, and you will not need to control the very biological imperative by force.

[JerseyGator01]

Peter Singer, animal rights god at PU down the street from me, says that abortion and infanticide are no different given the nature of the victims. He does advocate for infanticide in some cases and assisted suicide in others (except when it might involve mom). There is so much depth among the so-called intellectual elites in this country.

[Wormwood56]

If you think I'm wrong, show me.

But before you try, take a look at the demographic trends in Western Europe and South Korea compared with any third world country you like, then compare the per capita GDP's of those countries.

The reasons are many, not just affluence. Culture and religious beliefs also play a role. The advances of healthcare throughout the world also influence this, as there is no need for large families when your kids survive infancy. You should know that.

[HudsonGator]

The reasons are many, not just affluence. Culture and religious beliefs also play a role. The advances of healthcare throughout the world also influence this, as there is no need for large families when your kids survive infancy. You should know that.

There are big differences in culture and religion between, oh I don't know, let's just pick two countries, say Italy and South Korea, yet their birth-rates have declined just at the same time that there standards of living have increased.

While there are certainly going to be exceptions to the rule, to ignore the clear relationship between affluence and family-size is simply ignorant or dishonest.

For your own edification, there is also a clear relationship between the educational level of women and family size.