Question For Pianists

[KendrellJones]

I am an author and have a scenario, based around 1948, where...out in the country a family has a precocious daughter - 10ish who is a piano player.

Unfortunately one of the white keys/noted is broken and she has to play around it somehow.

There is NO piano repairman within several hundred miles.

All I want to know is...say she is playing a piece from Bach or Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata...how she could adapt to not having that scripted note available?

Does she play a key? Is there a "chord" type formation she could play to approximate that note?

Thanks in advance.

[gatorump]

Call me immature if you want, but I can't read a post with pianist in it on a football message board without thinking of Darnell Dockett's sexcapades with his teammates in college and my anticipation of Chris Rix's tell all book!

[JohnC1908]

This is real?

[swoosh69]

She would have to play the same note an octave above or below, but even that would sound wrong, just less wrong than other notes. Never heard of a chord approximating a note, although with a more dissonant, modern piece, you could probably get away with it, but not something so classically correct sounding as Bach or Beethoven. You'd have to venture into 20th century composers to plausibly pull off something like that...and 10 year olds aren't usually known to play these kinds of pieces. Maybe something like Rhapsody in Blue, but even that is very advanced musically and technically.

[JohnC1908]

She would have to play the same note an octave above or below, but even that would sound wrong, just less wrong than other notes. Never heard of a chord approximating a note, although with a more dissonant, modern piece, you could probably get away with it, but not something so classically correct sounding as Bach or Beethoven. You'd have to venture into 20th century composers to plausibly pull off something like that...and 10 year olds aren't usually known to play these kinds of pieces. Maybe something like Rhapsody in Blue, but even that is very advanced musically and technically.

Damn, this is a great site. Repped.

[geauxgator1]

She would have to play the same note an octave above or below, but even that would sound wrong, just less wrong than other notes. Never heard of a chord approximating a note, although with a more dissonant, modern piece, you could probably get away with it, but not something so classically correct sounding as Bach or Beethoven. You'd have to venture into 20th century composers to plausibly pull off something like that...and 10 year olds aren't usually known to play these kinds of pieces. Maybe something like Rhapsody in Blue, but even that is very advanced musically and technically.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
:lie:

[petro]

If she has monster hands she could play the whole tune in 2 Octaves. Tie that physical development into her sun up to sun down daily farm chores. Add in some backyard football with her cousins on the weekends. It's plausible. Can she kick field goals? I might have just saved your thread. Probably not.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Go16VrWP-ew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gatordavisl]

I tried to help by responding to your PM. Months later, you wrote back posing the same question, while not fully explaining the purpose of your authorship. When I failed to understand your author angle, you berated me for not understanding . . . Ironic.
P.S. This is a sports board.

[JohnC1908]

I tried to help by responding to your PM. Months later, you wrote back posing the same question, while not fully explaining the purpose of your authorship. When I failed to understand your author angle, you berated me for not understanding . . . Ironic.
P.S. This is a sports board.

Glad I wasn't alone in the PM reprimanding.

[imagatorholic]

In Bach or Beethoven, the same note would appear with such frequency that it would be impossible (IMO) for any pianist to even attempt to approximate it. Any approximation would sound peculiar and would have Bach or Beethoven spinning in their graves. Any serious writing stating it was being accomplished would be ridiculed by the music world - (again IMO).

[RayGator]

Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are my three favorite classic composers. Nevertheless, I like so many more of those classical music guys as well.

[gatordavisl]

Glad I wasn't alone in the PM reprimanding. +1 I found the reprimand a bit humorous. :laugh:

[Speedofsand]

Question for pianists:
If you see a professional playing a really nice brand new piano do you get pianist envy?

[TheRaid]

She would play the broken key. It would not sound. But she would not compromise the playing itself.

[TheRaid]

Question for pianists:
If you see a professional playing a really nice brand new piano do you get pianist envy?

Not unless he or she is producing savory sound.

[Gatorrick22]

In Bach or Beethoven, the same note would appear with such frequency that it would be impossible (IMO) for any pianist to even attempt to approximate it. Any approximation would sound peculiar and would have Bach or Beethoven spinning in their graves. Any serious writing stating it was being accomplished would be ridiculed by the music world - (again IMO).

Yep, it's probably easier to re-write the story and use a different composer. :wink:

[gator85jd]

Second question: when preparing for a concert, what's better than roses on your piano?

[SwampBrody]

Second question: when preparing for a concert, what's better than roses on your piano?

Tulips on the organ? Lmao

[The_Ultimate_Gator]

We call our little dog Teeny, cause he's the teeniest.
We call our big dog Meany, cause he's the meaniest.
And we call the last dog Liberace, cause he's the peein'est!

/RIP, Benny Hill.

[nawlinsgator]

I am an author and have a scenario, based around 1948, where...out in the country a family has a precocious daughter - 10ish who is a piano player.

Unfortunately one of the white keys/noted is broken and she has to play around it somehow.

There is NO piano repairman within several hundred miles.

All I want to know is...say she is playing a piece from Bach or Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata...how she could adapt to not having that scripted note available?

Does she play a key? Is there a "chord" type formation she could play to approximate that note?

Thanks in advance.


I already know the ending to this story.....Yosemite Sam get's tired of Bugs Bunny playing around the key rigged to the dynamite and shoves Bugs out of the way, playing "Mary Had A Little Lamb" exactly as it should be played....and get's blown to kingdom come.

[COGatorman]

I already know the ending to this story.....Yosemite Sam get's tired of Bugs Bunny playing around the key rigged to the dynamite and shoves Bugs out of the way, playing "Mary Had A Little Lamb" exactly as it should be played....and get's blown to kingdom come.

Rep to you! I can't stop laughing! :laugh:

[tilly]

I am amazed that you guys are missing the point of the OP.

The broken key is clearly Urban Meyer. The pianist is clearly Coach Champ.

Rookies.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

[Gatorrick22]

I am amazed that you guys are missing the point of the OP.

The broken key is clearly Urban Meyer. The pianist is clearly Coach Champ.

Rookies.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

:whoa:

[CharlesUF09]

Music nerd time.

I would say that for piano pieces of the Bach (which is actually anachronistic because Bach wrote for the harpsichord, clavichord, and organs and very, very rarely the piano which was brand new at the time) or Mozart variety, most people would actually not recognize the missing key in a normal piece if the note was a half step in either direction if it's within the flow of the song. Especially to people that don't know what to listen for. Some composers are somewhat infamous for doing this to classical period pieces to make things more interesting (Philip Glass did precisely this by taking a minimalist approach to a number of pieces.) As a result a clever (or precocious) enough piano player could indeed create a small variation to the piece itself by playing either off or in key with a different note but in the same ballpark. A person with extreme familiarity would perhaps notice the difference, but a person who has nothing better to do could probably find a way to make it work. There have literally been hundreds of variations to all the popular piano pieces that change things like this. Wouldn't be the same, but it could still be fine.

If that doesn't do you, or, if the note is used too often (like playing Moonlight Sontata without the middle C# would be an exercise in futility,) a bored piano player can shift the key of the song to not have to worry about the pesky broken key. That would be the more intensive in terms of work or talent, and in the case of a piece like Moonlight Sonata's 1st movement, well, you'll probably be crossing paths with that note eventually anyhow if it's in that range of notes as Beethoven loved using off key notes for dissonance.

If the key that's broken is off middle C enough, you may rarely encounter it enough as to not merit either consideration though.

[vaxcardinal]

its the off season so I suppose this is kind of "band thread" related. might as well talk about uniforms too

[RayGator]

I am amazed that you guys are missing the point of the OP.

The broken key is clearly Urban Meyer. The pianist is clearly Coach Champ.

Rookies.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

Right! It's all Urban Meyer's fault!

:)

[mfpardnor2]

How about this twist she can't do it and becomes so frustrated she goes on a killing Spree it would be like the "Piano" meets "In Cold Blood"

[WESGATORS]

See this is why I check SG every now and then in the off-season.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[USAFColonel]

Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are my three favorite classic composers. Nevertheless, I like so many more of those classical music guys as well.

For the record: Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart are no longer composing. They are now "de-composing".

[ParisGator]

I am an author and have a scenario, based around 1948, where...out in the country a family has a precocious daughter - 10ish who is a piano player.

Unfortunately one of the white keys/noted is broken and she has to play around it somehow.

There is NO piano repairman within several hundred miles.

All I want to know is...say she is playing a piece from Bach or Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata...how she could adapt to not having that scripted note available?

Does she play a key? Is there a "chord" type formation she could play to approximate that note?

Thanks in advance.

Here are a few options for you, Kendrell, some of which have been discussed previously.

Let's say you use Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. The original key of the song is C# Minor. That means the "primary" notes in the song are C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B/B#. Other notes are used, of course, as Beethoven "toys" with different "secondary" keys within the movement/song.

1) One option is that the child plays the Sonata in a different octave. In other words, you can see that the keyboard photo above starts with C and then after moving through D, E, F, G, A, B, it starts over with C again. That is an octave. A piano actually has eight octaves. The problem with this method, and what I think makes it unfeasible, is that Beethoven utilizes more than one octave in his composition (between three and four in fact), so eventually the little girl would have to play or skip that note. Plus, a song will lose it's color, feel, sound, etc. if played in a octave different than where it is written.

2) Another option, as mentioned above, is the child plays the song in a different key. That would mean, for example, that rather than playing in C# minor (with C#, D#, E, etc.), she could play it in D minor. In D minor the primary notes are D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C/C#. In this scenario let's say the broken note on her piano is a B natural. By playing it D minor, she would largely avoid that note.

3) Another option, of course, is that child the plays the song exactly as written, but whenever she plays the broken note there is no sound at all. Thus, there is are audible "holes" in the song. Yet due to her keen ear she "imagines" the note and hears it within her own head. Maybe she even even hums the note or sings it to fill in the hole.

4) Above, an idea was mentioned to simply play a note 1/2 step to the left or right of the missing note. While I agree with some of his other ideas, I disagree with that idea. I think that even non-musicians would notice a note not within the key of the song. I fear that option would provide a sound that is glaringly wrong to most ears.

Hope this helps a little bit. There are certainly ways to make it work and I would be happy to speak to you further if you have any questions. Feel free to PM me, and I can give you my e-mail and/or cell number. (I presently have two students working on the Moonlight Sonata, so it definitely fresh on my mind.)

Scott

[1984Gator]

She would have to play the same note an octave above or below, but even that would sound wrong, just less wrong than other notes. Never heard of a chord approximating a note, although with a more dissonant, modern piece, you could probably get away with it, but not something so classically correct sounding as Bach or Beethoven. You'd have to venture into 20th century composers to plausibly pull off something like that...and 10 year olds aren't usually known to play these kinds of pieces. Maybe something like Rhapsody in Blue, but even that is very advanced musically and technically.

With a substitution, you could trick the ear into thinking the note was played. Now, why is this on a football message board?

[tebowharvin]

Transpose the piece. Why is this here?

[KendrellJones]

Gator, Harvin?????

This is Swamp Gas.

This is NOT a football board.

I have posted my question several times and consistently get replies from people who simply cannot read. I feel like I'm on a brain challenged Seminoles board at times!! lol

[JohnC1908]

Gator, Harvin?????

This is Swamp Gas.

This is NOT a football board.

I have posted my question several times and consistently get replies from people who simply cannot read. I feel like I'm on a brain challenged Seminoles board at times!! lol

Swamp Gas forum description....

Ah, football... One of the most glorious and passionate topics in all the Gator Nation. Join rabid fans in Swamp Gas as we discuss Gator football!

[MaceoP]

Is this like "If a rooster lays an egg on the top of a roof?"

Then the answer would be "piano's don't have keys"...

Final answer.

[whitelakegator]

A guy walks into a bar and orders a beer. He takes a sip, and then suddenly the most incredible piano music he's ever heard starts up. He looks around, but sees no piano, no speakers, no discernible source for the music.

Puzzled, he asks the barman, "Where is the music coming from?"

The barman answers, "Well I've got this little guy about one foot high, playing this little piano under the bar."

"No, seriously", says the guy, "where is it coming from?"

"Well, if you don't believe me, take a look and see for yourself", says the barman.

The guy gets up, walks around the bar and looks underneath. Sure enough, there's this tiny little man playing a tiny little piano. The little man waves and asks if he has any requests.

Amazed, he asks the barman, "Where in hell did you get that little guy?"

The barman answers, "Well, I was taking the trash out into the alley and saw this old dirty lamp. I rubbed the dirt off it, and suddenly this genie popped out and said 'I'll grant you one wish, but one wish only! So now I have this little man."

"Wow!", says the guy, "is that lamp still out there?"

"I guess so", says the barman, "go out and take a look."

The guy rushes out the back door and sure enough, there's this dirty old lamp. He picks it up and rubs it. Out pops the genie and says, "I'll grant you one wish, but one wish only!"

Beside himself with excitement, the guy yells, "I want a million bucks!"

The next instant the alley is filled with a million quacking ducks.

Disgusted, he walks back into the bar and says to the barman, "Man, this genie of yours has a real problem with his hearing!"

"No kidding", says the barman, "did you really think I asked him for a 12-inch pianist?"

[WESGATORS]

Gator, Harvin?????

This is Swamp Gas.

This is NOT a football board.

I have posted my question several times and consistently get replies from people who simply cannot read. I feel like I'm on a brain challenged Seminoles board at times!! lol

I want to have a beer with this poster and LOFC.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[Dgarland]

Just play in Ebm....and use only the black keys...ala Stevie Wonder in "Superstition"...no white keys to worry about...

[Pieisyummy]

You would tune the piano differently or just leave out that note. Whenever playing any instrument if you mess up it's best to just keep going and sometimes it isn't even noticeable, you'd probably do the same with a note missing.

[CHFG8R]

In Bach or Beethoven, the same note would appear with such frequency that it would be impossible (IMO) for any pianist to even attempt to approximate it. Any approximation would sound peculiar and would have Bach or Beethoven spinning in their graves. Any serious writing stating it was being accomplished would be ridiculed by the music world - (again IMO).

How about just skipping the note? For some reason, I'm thinking of John Bonham and the way he would skip beats/counts yet still tie in perfectly with the song.

[Speedofsand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YO5WJBlfpg&feature=share