Homeland adds 2,700 armored vehicles to ammo purchases

[wygator]

For those insisting that Homeland Security is not preparing against the prospect of major domestic unrest or even uprising, they've purchased 2,700 MRAC armored vehicles.

The Department of Homeland Security (through the U.S. Army Forces Command) recently retrofitted 2,717 of these ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.

The new DHS sanctioned ‘Street Sweeper’ (my own slang due to the gun ports) is built by Navistar Defense (NavistarDefense.com), a division within the Navistar organization. Under the Navistar umbrella are several other companies including International Trucks, IC Bus (they make school buses), Monaco RV (recreational vehicles), WorkHorse (they make chassis), MaxxForce (diesel engines), and Navistar Financial (the money arm of the company).

DHS even released a video on their newly purchased MRAPs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pS9aw5pcJo


Reminder of the 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo purchased

In a puzzling, unexplained development, the Obama administration has been buying and storing vast amounts of ammunition in recent months, with the Department of Homeland Security just placing another order for an additional 21.6 million rounds.

Several other agencies of the federal government also began buying large quantities of bullets last year. The Social Security Administration, for instance, not normally considered on the frontlines of anything but dealing with seniors, explained that its purchase of millions of rounds was for special agents' required quarterly weapons qualifications. They must be pretty poor shots.

But DHS has been silent about its need for numerous orders of bullets in the multiple millions. Indeed, Examiner writer Ryan Keller points out Janet Napolitano's agency illegally redacted information from some ammunition solicitation forms following media inquiries.

According to one estimate, just since last spring DHS has stockpiled more than 1.6 billion bullets, mainly .40 caliber and 9mm. That's sufficient firepower to shoot every American about five times. Including illegal immigrants.

Is this Obama's little discussed Civilian Security Force?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/020813-643707-obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases.htm

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/

[HudsonGator]

They are coming for your guns, people!!!!!!

Rise up!

[helix139]

It should also be pointed out that much of that 1.6 billion rounds of ammo that was purchased was hollow point, NOT standard FMJ ball training ammo.

[gator7_5]

For those insisting that Homeland Security is not preparing against the prospect of major domestic unrest or even uprising, they've purchased 2,700 MRAC armored vehicles.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pS9aw5pcJo


Reminder of the 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo purchased



Is this Obama's little discussed Civilian Security Force?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/020813-643707-obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases.htm

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/

I was waiting for one of the sheep...er clappers in the background to go. "Wait.. What?"

[wygator]

One of the articles pointed out that the ammo purchased by our CIVILIAN agencies is enough for 24 years of the IRAQ war.

Social Security? What the heck?

[rivergator]

One of the articles pointed out that the ammo purchased by our CIVILIAN agencies is enough for 24 years of the IRAQ war.

Social Security? What the heck?

So, when armed Social Security agents make arrests, as they've always done, you want the guns to be empty?

[Dreamliner]

The government needs to protect itself against the people.

[PIMking]

So, when armed Social Security agents make arrests, as they've always done, you want the guns to be empty?

yes, if they want us to have empty guns they should too

[rivergator]

yes, if they want us to have empty guns they should too


And, yes, that's exactly what the government has done. it's ordered all your bullets confiscated. Seriously, do any of you guys actually believe this stuff?

[wygator]

So, when armed Social Security agents make arrests, as they've always done, you want the guns to be empty?

No. But doesn't the sheer volume of purchases raise your eyebrows?

[rivergator]

No. But doesn't the sheer volume of purchases raise your eyebrows?

So you really figure that Obama will convince career Social Security agents, the ones who live next door to us, to open fire on citizens who protest his policies?

The facts, which I admit are far less intriguing than the great paranoia some of you have:

Agents carry .357 caliber pistols, Lasher said. The bullets, which add up to about 590 per agent, are for the upcoming fiscal year. Most will be expended on the firing range.

link (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48898365/ns/us_news-life/)

[Wormwood56]

So you really figure that Obama will convince career Social Security agents, the ones who live next door to us, to open fire on citizens who protest his policies?

The facts, which I admit are far less intriguing than the great paranoia some of you have:



link (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48898365/ns/us_news-life/)

Gee thanks, River, I feel better already!

1,600,000,000 purchased.
minus
174,000 for Social Security fraud violators

equals

1,599,926,000 for Homeland Security. I gather that most of that is going to the Coast Guard, because we need thousands of welcome mats for ICE and the Border Patrol's emasculated officers...

[egator1245]

In the midst of Obama claiming there is no money for schools, teachers, children, firefighters, police, clean air and water, he still can find money for armored vehicles for Homeland Security. Just seems strange and/or cynical.

[HudsonGator]

Perhaps Skynet has gone online and it was in fact the one who purchased all this ammo.

Better start digging those bunkers, once Skynet becomes self-aware it's over...

[helix139]

When you're buying hollow point ammo, you're not spending most of it on the range. I don't buy that explanation.

[rivergator]

When you're buying hollow point ammo, you're not spending most of it on the range. I don't buy that explanation.

So what do you figure? Social Security agents are planning to kill you? The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is setting up a dictatorship?
What do you think the plan is?

[helix139]

So what do you figure? Social Security agents are planning to kill you? The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is setting up a dictatorship?
What do you think the plan is?

I honestly don't know, I just see something fishy going on and what they are saying publicly doesn't add up.

[MichiGator2002]

Not to make too much of a joke of it, but really, in order to ever function as a post-Constitutional dictator, someone like Obama would probably have to militarize the unionized civil service to find loyal support, because the bulk of regular and reserve military, national guard, and law enforcement personnel would walk away.

[wygator]

Not to make too much of a joke of it, but really, in order to ever function as a post-Constitutional dictator, someone like Obama would probably have to militarize the unionized civil service to find loyal support, because the bulk of regular and reserve military, national guard, and law enforcement personnel would walk away.

I've always hoped and expected that our military, our government workers, would never be able to execute actual attacks on our civilian population. Then there's Waco...

[rivergator]

Not to make too much of a joke of it, but really, in order to ever function as a post-Constitutional dictator, someone like Obama would probably have to militarize the unionized civil service to find loyal support, because the bulk of regular and reserve military, national guard, and law enforcement personnel would walk away.

Conservatives have claimed over and over that the military hates Obama. But he'd be able to overcome that with armed Social Security and National Fisheries agents?

[HudsonGator]

Conservatives have claimed over and over that the military hates Obama. But he'd be able to overcome that with armed Social Security and National Fisheries agents?

And USDA and FDA inspectors, don't forget about them.

[G8trGr8t]

In the midst of Obama claiming there is no money for schools, teachers, children, firefighters, police, clean air and water, he still can find money for armored vehicles for Homeland Security. Just seems strange and/or cynical.

correct..they always try and use scare tactics and cut the essential or justifiable services/expenses first while continuing to feed the bloated pigs that are non-essential. Gubmnt by crisis is what oblamer specializes in. all the pres-sequestration announcements of closing airport towers and such nonsense are now being reversed...shocking...

[Lawdog88]

And USDA and FDA inspectors, don't forget about them.


Although you quip well, your and River's explanation - not that you have given one, mind you - for this Government ammo-purchasing, MRAC equipping, would be that it is simply bidness as usual, and SOP ?

[HudsonGator]

Although you quip well, your and River's explanation - not that you have given one, mind you - for this Government ammo-purchasing, MRAC equipping, would be that it is simply bidness as usual, and SOP ?

Maybe they got a bulk discount.

[Lawdog88]

Maybe they got a bulk discount.


Glad you approve and see, hear, and think no evil.

[HudsonGator]

Glad you approve and see, hear, and think no evil.

Life is easier when one doesn't look for bogeymen around every corner.

[Lawdog88]

Life is easier when one doesn't look for bogeymen around every corner.


Thanks again for the pithy explanation.

Next.

[HudsonGator]

Thanks again for the pithy explanation.

Next.

I have always been a big fan of the pithy explanation.

Less is more kind of thing.

[Lawdog88]

I have always been a big fan of the pithy explanation.

Less is more kind of thing.


Less can actually . . . be less.

[rivergator]

Life is easier when one doesn't look for bogeymen around every corner.

It's clearly very important for some to have a bogey man around every corner.

[Lawdog88]

It's clearly very important for some to have a bogey man around every corner.


Ahah ! Jumping on board with the highly informative, scaredy-cat motif we see.

And a nice explanation to you too, as well.

[rivergator]

Ahah ! Jumping on board with the highly informative, scaredy-cat motif we see.

And a nice explanation to you too, as well.

what do you call it? Republicans have been crying wolf since Obama was elected. He's going to have brown shirts!! He's going to kill granny!! He's giving us to the U.N.!!! He's going to cancel the 2012 elections!!

what else is new?

[Lawdog88]

what do you call it? Republicans have been crying wolf since Obama was elected. He's going to have brown shirts!! He's going to kill granny!! He's giving us to the U.N.!!! He's going to cancel the 2012 elections!!

what else is new?


Thanks for the histrionic explanation.

[rivergator]

Thanks for the histrionic explanation.


just quoting conservatives. so what's your thought on this, other than attempting to make lame fun of everyone else who posts? what are you offering?

[viningsgator]

Has any reporter asked the WH or inquired about the order?

[Lawdog88]

just quoting conservatives. so what's your thought on this, other than attempting to make lame fun of everyone else who posts? what are you offering?


I am looking for your answer.

[rivergator]

I am looking for your answer.

I already posted an explanation. SSA has armed agents. They need bullets. Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement has armed enforcement personnel. They need bullets, too.

[Lawdog88]

I already posted an explanation. SSA has armed agents. They need bullets. Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement has armed enforcement personnel. They need bullets, too.


So this is standard operating procedure, something these agencies do every year ? Nothing out of the normal for them ?

See, those are simply sincere questions because I don't know the answers; and since you were making fun of everybody who questioned those facially appearing, unusual activities - as being basically paranoid - I thought you might know what you were talking about.

Do you ?

[rivergator]

So this is standard operating procedure, something these agencies do every year ? Nothing out of the normal for them ?

See, those are simply sincere questions because I don't know the answers; and since you were making fun of everybody who questioned those facially appearing, unusual activities - as being basically paranoid - I thought you might know what you were talking about.

Do you ?

I have not seen numbers from previous years, but the SSA said it makes similar purchases every year.

[wygator]

One of my linked articles is from the Investor's Business Daily, hardly a fly-by-night blog.

The Homeland Security ammo purchases are historic and I'm guessing the armored vehicle purchases are as well.

I hark back to Obama's Civilian security force because it is:

1) An unprecedented suggestion for a
2) force of equal budget and capability as the military
3) Never mentioned by Obama again after the one campaign speech (as far as I know)

I'm not a conspiracy freak by nature, but when you see our executive )non-military) agencies arming up at unprecedented levels, and you have Obama's apparent dream of the civilian force hanging out there, I don't think it is imprudent to seek legitimate explanations for the activities. Instead homeland is illegally redacting info from the purchase applications.

It's probably just Obama paybacks to campaign donors in the ammo and defense contractor industries...right?

[Lawdog88]

Has any reporter asked the WH or inquired about the order?


Was able to find this at the NRA site, but it is from August, last year:

The most widespread of the recent rumors involves a Department of Homeland Security contract for a maximum of 450 million rounds of .40-caliber jacketed hollow-points, to be supplied over the next five years.

After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release (http://westmoreland.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=642&Itemid=372), Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.

Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government's evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the '70s, '80s and '90s complaining about "dum dum" bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center's website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law "has no effect on today's generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.") The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition. http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/federal-law-enforcement-agencies-buy-ammunition.aspx I just wonder is it SOP for the G'ment to lock up purchases for the next five years ? Do they historically order ammo like that ?

[rivergator]

One of my linked articles is from the Investor's Business Daily, hardly a fly-by-night blog.

The Homeland Security ammo purchases are historic and I'm guessing the armored vehicle purchases are as well.

I hark back to Obama's Civilian security force because it is:

1) An unprecedented suggestion for a
2) force of equal budget and capability as the military
3) Never mentioned by Obama again after the one campaign speech (as far as I know)

I'm not a conspiracy freak by nature, but when you see our executive )non-military) agencies arming up at unprecedented levels, and you have Obama's apparent dream of the civilian force hanging out there, I don't think it is imprudent to seek legitimate explanations for the activities. Instead homeland is illegally redacting info from the purchase applications.

It's probably just Obama paybacks to campaign donors in the ammo and defense contractor industries...right?

CAn you point to any evidence that it is unprecedented?

Seriously, haven't we been through all this before? Obama's the first president in 100 years to miss the Army-Navy game! Obama's the first president in history to bow to another country's monarch! Obama's the first president in history to host a Muslim dinner! Obama's the first president to say he's a citizen of the world!
And on and on.
None of it true, of course.

[Wormwood56]

Of course, if Bush did this in the aftermath of 9/11, the ACLU and other leftist organizations would have had a cow. Then you would have been hearing nonstop about "brown shirts in the streets."

[rivergator]

Of course, if Bush did this in the aftermath of 9/11, the ACLU and other leftist organizations would have had a cow. Then you would have been hearing nonstop about "brown shirts in the streets."

if Bush did what? order ammunition for federal agencies?

[wygator]

CAn you point to any evidence that it is unprecedented?

Seriously, haven't we been through all this before? Obama's the first president in 100 years to miss the Army-Navy game! Obama's the first president in history to bow to another country's monarch! Obama's the first president in history to host a Muslim dinner! Obama's the first president to say he's a citizen of the world!
And on and on.
None of it true, of course.

I'm a history buff, as many are on this board.

Are you, or anyone on this board, aware of any previous president saying we need a civilian security force as well-funded and as powerful as our military? I'm not.

[rivergator]

I'm a history buff, as many are on this board.

Are you, or anyone on this board, aware of any previous president saying we need a civilian security force as well-funded and as powerful as our military? I'm not.

I don't believe Obama said that.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

It's hard to know if this is worthy of eyebrow raising without knowing how much ammo these departments have traditionally had. Anyone have that kind of data?

[Gatorrick22]

It's hard to know if this is worthy of eyebrow raising without knowing how much ammo these departments have traditionally had. Anyone have that kind of data?

:huh:

You mean hollow-point rounds?

[HudsonGator]

I'm a history buff, as many are on this board.

Are you, or anyone on this board, aware of any previous president saying we need a civilian security force as well-funded and as powerful as our military? I'm not.

2012 U.S. DOD discretionary budget - $553 billion (http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=14263) (i.e. not including $118 billion to support overseas contingency operations (OCO), primarily in Afghanistan and Iraq).

2012 U.S. DHS total budget - $56 billion (http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/budget-bib-fy2012.pdf).

Looks like DHS has a long way to go to catch up to the Department of Defense.

[secgator]

I don't believe Obama said that.

Then listen to the video...which happens to be the same video ALREADY posted twice in this thread. Virtually verbatim to what wygator said and you 'don't believe Obama said'. Listen closely this time river...or perhaps we can get a transcript for you if necessary. Only part wygator left out was an additional adjective..."just as strong" as our military.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tt2yGzHfy7s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You still going to deny or dispute your messiah, the Dalibama said it or didn't he??

[rivergator]

Then listen to the video...which happens to be the same video ALREADY posted twice in this thread. Virtually verbatim to what wygator said and you 'don't believe Obama said'. Listen closely this time river...or perhaps we can get a transcript for you if necessary. Only part wygator left out was an additional adjective..."just as strong" as our military.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tt2yGzHfy7s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You still going to deny or dispute your messiah, the Dalibama said it or didn't he??


You know he was talking about the Peace Corps, Americorps, groups like that, right?

By the way, I do stand corrected. He said that, he just wasn't talking about an armed force.

[wygator]

I don't believe Obama said that.

Please check the video in the OP

[G8trGr8t]

You know he was talking about the Peace Corps, Americorps, groups like that, right?

By the way, I do stand corrected. He said that, he just wasn't talking about an armed force.

"civilian SECURITY force" - when did the peace corps become a security force? Does security mean something different in your world?

[HALLGATOR]

Keep the insults out of the posts.

[RealGatorFan]

So what do you figure? Social Security agents are planning to kill you? The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is setting up a dictatorship?
What do you think the plan is?

This is before Obama came into office but much of this is in case there is civil unrest. I think the government is preparing for the worst. Think Katrina at a national level.

[RealGatorFan]

Or, the government is buying up all the ammo so to drive up cost thereby preventing Amercians from being able to buy them. There are more than one way to disarm Amercians.

[DaveFla]

They are coming for your our guns, people!!!!!!

Rise up!

Fixed...

[orangeblueorangeblue]

:huh:

You mean hollow-point rounds?

Well I mean ammo in general. I'm genuinely interested.

[G8trGr8t]

Target practice with hollow points. Wasteful

[The_Graygator]

For those insisting that Homeland Security is not preparing against the prospect of major domestic unrest or even uprising, they've purchased 2,700 MRAC armored vehicles.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pS9aw5pcJo


Reminder of the 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo purchased



Is this Obama's little discussed Civilian Security Force?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/020813-643707-obama-homeland-security-vast-ammunition-purchases.htm

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/obama-dhs-purchases-2700-light-armored-tanks-to-go-with-their-1-6-billion-bullet-stockpile/



This stuff has been going on for the last 2 1/2 years, very quietly, and completely uncovered by the LMSM for the most part.

Obama has already been filling the ranks of FEMA with his para-military trained gangsta thugs for the past 18 months, mostly young guys under the age of 25, arming and training many of them with fully automatic rifles. A number of them were spotted after the Hurricane Sandy disaster.

Recently, Homeland Security held a "terror drill" with helicopters and city street shutdowns in Miami, Florida, where the copters actually trained their wepons on the local populace for "practice". :roll:

[DaveFla]

Perhaps Skynet has gone online and it was in fact the one who purchased all this ammo.

Better start digging those bunkers, once Skynet becomes self-aware it's over...

Have you ever read the Aesops Fable "The Ant and the Grasshopper"?

You remind me a lot of the grasshopper in that story.

I'm just saying...

[The_Graygator]

In the midst of Obama claiming there is no money for schools, teachers, children, firefighters, police, clean air and water, he still can find money for armored vehicles for Homeland Security. Just seems strange and/or cynical.


Yep, the money to his union pals will still go through, and for all those Obama-phones, and to his Isreal-hating terrorist pals in Egpyt, and to China to combat "global warming" :laugh:, and to Brazil to drill oil for us to buy from them, and to Scandinavia to build electric cars we'll buy from them, and to all the failed green companies owned or run by his big campaign contributors, and for Moochelle's future trips all over the world, and for Obama's next golf tour with Tiger, and etc., etc., etc...

And the good little legions of liberal lemmings will not question any of it... only laugh and guffaw that all is well and believe their government only has their best wishes in mind, that government knows best, that government should lead them by the hand, that government should think for them, that government should make their decisions for them, and that government would never do anything against The People.

If you heard of some nut-case walking up and down the streets of your neighborhood shouting out threats at everyone every day, would you just look the other way and not call the cops, deciding he's nothing to worry about until that day he follows through on those threats?

You people making fun of legitimate concerns by those here of these moves by our government? You're all fools.

[rivergator]

"civilian SECURITY force" - when did the peace corps become a security force? Does security mean something different in your world?


The full quote:

[As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We’ll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.

We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We’ll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You’ll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You’ll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.

And, of course, Factcheck makes it clear:

Q: Is Obama planning a Gestapo-like "civilian national security force"?

A: This false claim is a badly distorted version of Obama’s call for doubling the Peace Corps, creating volunteer networks and increasing the size of the Foreign Service.

link (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/obamas-national-security-force/)

[G8trGr8t]

Civilian national SECURITY force just ad STRONG as the military.

Please provide the liberal definition of security and strong when used in context to compare to an armed force (military).

In my world security usually involves capacity to use force and strong as armed force involves being equally armed

[DSRrg]

I would imagine most who believe the claim that the hollow points are for range use have spent all of 5 mins on any range. You DO NOT shoot premium ammo (ie hollow point) on the range. That is not what people who know their way around guns do. You shoot ball ammo in bulk. You do house runs, you use frang ammo.

People who aren't skeptical about these purchases are sheep pure and simple.

[secgator]

I would imagine most who believe the claim that the hollow points are for range use have spent all of 5 mins on any range. You DO NOT shoot premium ammo (ie hollow point) on the range. That is not what people who know their way around guns do. You shoot ball ammo in bulk. You do house runs, you use frang ammo.

People who aren't skeptical about these purchases are sheep pure and simple.

Of course they do---they are the same ones who equate The Peace Corps with the Military as both being a 'security force'.

Those who aren't skeptical because they take an Obama (or factcheck) explanation at face value fall more under the term....gullible.

[GolphinGator]

And, yes, that's exactly what the government has done. it's ordered all your bullets confiscated. Seriously, do any of you guys actually believe this stuff?

I can tell you that you will not find any in the stores to buy. Not that you would want any. Not even a box of 22LR on any shelf in Gainesville or Ocala. So for what ever reason thats pretty much what has happened. Gander Mountain empty. No ammo for weeks now. People say people are buying it up thats why there is none. Hard to buy up things that are not there.

[wygator]

River, thank for the helpful bolding. Now I'll bold it for you...

The full quote:

[As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We’ll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.

We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We’ll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You’ll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You’ll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.



And, of course, Factcheck makes it clear:
link (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/obamas-national-security-force/)

I don't need fact check to explain what I can read for myself.

[secgator]

River, thank for the helpful bolding. Now I'll bold it for you...



I don't need fact check to explain what I can read for myself.

wy...the only ones who DO need factcheck to help them out are those on the left. They prefer to remain 'within the family'. Seeing that factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg Foundation--which definitely leans left.

It is 'their' bible...regardless of the fact it slants left. In the case above, the statement Obama made should--at the very least--cause any prudent person to question exactly what he meant, most certainly NOT accept factcheck's explanation at face value.

[DSRrg]

wy...the only ones who DO need factcheck to help them out are those on the left. They prefer to remain 'within the family'. Seeing that factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg Foundation--which definitely leans left.

It is 'their' bible...regardless of the fact it slants left. In the case above, the statement Obama made should--at the very least--cause any prudent person to question exactly what he meant, most certainly NOT accept factcheck's explanation at face value.

I've always wondered why no one has asked Obama to explain what he meant by a civilian force that rivals our military.

[wygator]

If he's asked, he'll probably quote Factcheck. That was a pretty creative answer!!

[rivergator]

River, thank for the helpful bolding. Now I'll bold it for you...



I don't need fact check to explain what I can read for myself.

Oh, I see. So you figure if you take two sentences out of an entire speech. you can pretend he wasn't talking about the Peace Corps, Americorps and those types of organizations?
Because context is the enemy?

[rivergator]

wy...the only ones who DO need factcheck to help them out are those on the left. They prefer to remain 'within the family'. Seeing that factcheck.org is run by the Annenberg Foundation--which definitely leans left.

It is 'their' bible...regardless of the fact it slants left. In the case above, the statement Obama made should--at the very least--cause any prudent person to question exactly what he meant, most certainly NOT accept factcheck's explanation at face value.

Do you know who Annenberg was?

[secgator]

Do you know who Annenberg was?

Yes...do YOU? And to be fair--I was not referring to the 'man' but to...as I clearly stated--the 'foundation'. Do YOU know exactly what IT truly is and what it represents?

It...the foundation...is without question, left leaning. You will surely go on quoting them time and time again as you and others have done so for years, but those support links you toss out like they are the gospel truth, are empty of merit. You may as well be quoting the Keith Olbermann Chronicles. Factcheck is worthless support on your behalf.

[HALLGATOR]

It...the foundation...is without question, left leaning. You will surely go on quoting them time and time again as you and others have done so for years, but those support links you toss out like they are the gospel truth, are empty of merit. You may as well be quoting the Keith Olbermann Chronicles. Factcheck is worthless support on your behalf.

Without question? Could you provide more?

[wygator]

Oh, I see. So you figure if you take two sentences out of an entire speech. you can pretend he wasn't talking about the Peace Corps, Americorps and those types of organizations?
Because context is the enemy?

Context is important, but doesn't change the meaning in this case. He was talking about a lot of different organizations, among them a civilian security force.

He was kind of in a rhythm of coupling sentences. He would tie a challenge or need and to an organization that could help in that arena.

I'm going to post your quotation one more time, breaking each of distinct thought into a separate paragraph.

[As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem – they are the answer.

So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people.

We’ll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country.

We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families.

And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy.

We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

We need to use technology to connect people to service. We’ll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You’ll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You’ll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities.

This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up.

Make sense?

Fact check is blatantly dishonest in their explanation, failing to mention the key words and quotation. Don't be guilty of their dissembling.

[Row6]

Unbelievable. Again.

So, not only is Obama planning on a coup, but he announced it in a public speech. Apparently he will take over the country with 2700 armored vehicles loaded with Job Corps members and Americorp teachers armed with rifles. Brilliant!!

[reformedgator]

Conservatives have claimed over and over that the military hates Obama. But he'd be able to overcome that with armed Social Security and National Fisheries agents?

You make fun of the tongue in cheek comments, but can you give any reasonable explanation for the stockpiling of all that ammo & the expense (our tax dollars) that is incurred?

[DSRrg]

Unbelievable. Again.

So, not only is Obama planning on a coup, but he announced it in a public speech. Apparently he will take over the country with 2700 armored vehicles loaded with Job Corps members and Americorp teachers armed with rifles. Brilliant!!

Like the saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction.

But to the point, lets focus in on DHS. They have zero responsibility/jurisdiction OCONUS. Their entire mission objective is within the "walls" of the USA. For the military types on here, their AO is USA. Having said that, lets look at facts and determine if what they are doing makes sense to the layman. DHS has purchased nearly 1B rounds of ammunition in the last year and a half. This without question is an enormous amount of ammo. If their mission set and AO is USA, why the need for so much ammunition? Second, they have purchased thousands of assault rifles. Third, they have purchased nearly 3000 MRAPs. Why does a domestic agency need that many MRAPs? Does everyone understand the mission set for a MRAP? They are Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Like the man said in the video, they are not only secured to the border. His particular unit can travel anywhere in America.

Now, on top of all this, we have heard the POTUS declare that he wants a civilian force that rivals the military. How could any sane human take all these facts and not at least question the motives?

[g8trjax]

Like the saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction.

But to the point, lets focus in on DHS. They have zero responsibility/jurisdiction OCONUS. Their entire mission objective is within the "walls" of the USA. For the military types on here, their AO is USA. Having said that, lets look at facts and determine if what they are doing makes sense to the layman. DHS has purchased nearly 1B rounds of ammunition in the last year and a half. This without question is an enormous amount of ammo. If their mission set and AO is USA, why the need for so much ammunition? Second, they have purchased thousands of assault rifles. Third, they have purchased nearly 3000 MRAPs. Why does a domestic agency need that many MRAPs? Does everyone understand the mission set for a MRAP? They are Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Like the man said in the video, they are not only secured to the border. His particular unit can travel anywhere in America.

Now, on top of all this, we have heard the POTUS declare that he wants a civilian force that rivals the military. How could any sane human take all these facts and not at least question the motives?




Some people will be forever locked in to the dem and pub paradigm, no matter that at a minimum, these vehicles are just another example of govt waste, as is using hollow points for 'target practice'. If you actually watched that video and it didn't make you feel even a bit uncomfortable, you are our current govts wet dream, no two ways around it. Also, all these kids with crushing student loan debt and no jobs,would be the perfect 'volunteers' for our new civilian army.

[Row6]

Like the saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction.

But to the point, lets focus in on DHS. They have zero responsibility/jurisdiction OCONUS. Their entire mission objective is within the "walls" of the USA. For the military types on here, their AO is USA. Having said that, lets look at facts and determine if what they are doing makes sense to the layman. DHS has purchased nearly 1B rounds of ammunition in the last year and a half. This without question is an enormous amount of ammo. If their mission set and AO is USA, why the need for so much ammunition? Second, they have purchased thousands of assault rifles. Third, they have purchased nearly 3000 MRAPs. Why does a domestic agency need that many MRAPs? Does everyone understand the mission set for a MRAP? They are Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. Like the man said in the video, they are not only secured to the border. His particular unit can travel anywhere in America.

Now, on top of all this, we have heard the POTUS declare that he wants a civilian force that rivals the military. How could any sane human take all these facts and not at least question the motives?

There is a difference between questioning motives and paranoia, which is by definition irrational fear. There is nothing in the evidence that suggests a realistic attempt at a coup, unless one thinks an army of social workers with rifles and 2700 armored vehicles might take over the US and even less likely that Obama would announce his intentions in public speeches. The way coups typically work is that Obama would have a pledge from high-up military commanders to back him in seizing power, at which point - also highly unlikely and you and I would not know anything about it - the loyalty of those under their command would become critical.

Forget about it.

[rivergator]

Context is important, but doesn't change the meaning in this case. He was talking about a lot of different organizations, among them a civilian security force.

He was kind of in a rhythm of coupling sentences. He would tie a challenge or need and to an organization that could help in that arena.

I'm going to post your quotation one more time, breaking each of distinct thought into a separate paragraph.



Make sense?

Fact check is blatantly dishonest in their explanation, failing to mention the key words and quotation. Don't be guilty of their dissembling.

What words did Factcheck fail to mention?
Meanwhile, the entire segment of the speech is about Peace Corps, Americorps, helping veterans, etc. Are you just ignoring that?

[DSRrg]

There is a difference between questioning motives and paranoia, which is by definition irrational fear. There is nothing in the evidence that suggests a realistic attempt at a coup, unless one thinks an army of social workers with rifles and 2700 armored vehicles might take over the US and even less likely that Obama would announce his intentions in public speeches. The way coups typically work is that Obama would have a pledge from high-up military commanders to back him in seizing power, at which point - also highly unlikely and you and I would know anything about it - the loyalty of those under their command would become critical.

Forget about it.

This to me isn't setting the stage for a government coup but for a government preparing to stop a coup.

Did that person explaining the MRAP look like a social worker to you? He is a highly paid overhyped police officer with green fatigues.

[DSRrg]

This to me isn't setting the stage for a government coup but for a government preparing to stop a coup.

Did that person explaining the MRAP look like a social worker to you? He is a highly paid overhyped police officer with green fatigues.

Oh and let me add.....He is also a person who dreams of being an actual "operator".

[Row6]

This to me isn't setting the stage for a government coup but for a government preparing to stop a coup.

Did that person explaining the MRAP look like a social worker to you? He is a highly paid overhyped police officer with green fatigues.

Stopping what coup? That would be a good thing, right.

[g8trjax]

What words did Factcheck fail to mention?
Meanwhile, the entire segment of the speech is about Peace Corps, Americorps, helping veterans, etc. Are you just ignoring that?

If Dick Cheney was making that speech, using fact check, would you still form the same opinion?

[DSRrg]

Stopping what coup? That would be a good thing, right.

Under your premise of there being a possible "coup", I just said that its not a government preparing to start a coup. To me, it looks like a government preparing to stop a coup.

To me is easy to look at the progression of DHS and see historically what follows. I don't like the fact that all these agencies are being militarized and put in place on American streets. If the government sees it as acceptable to buy bulk ammo and weapons, I see no reason why the public can't do the same.

[wygator]

What words did Factcheck fail to mention?
Meanwhile, the entire segment of the speech is about Peace Corps, Americorps, helping veterans, etc. Are you just ignoring that?

I'm ignoring nothing.

Factcheck, in their explanation as you posted it, failed to mention ANY of these words:

We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

For anyone who didn't read or hear the actual speech, their explanation leaves the impression that anyone questioning what a "civilian national security force" is just made up the phrase out of whole cloth.

If you can't see that he is describing an organization separate and distinct from the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps, I can't help you any further.

The security force might be able to help veterans with employment!!

[rivergator]

I'm ignoring nothing.

Factcheck, in their explanation as you posted it, failed to mention ANY of these words:



For anyone who didn't read or hear the actual speech, their explanation leaves the impression that anyone questioning what a "civilian national security force" is just made up the phrase out of whole cloth.

If you can't see that he is describing an organization separate and distinct from the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps, I can't help you any further.

The security force might be able to help veterans with employment!!

I'd suggest you actually look at the Factcheck site I linked to. Not only are those sentences there, they're in bold.

[jimgata]

Is this what we really want? Disarm the citizens and arm the government. 2700 armed vehicles and buying huge amounts of ammo?

[wygator]

I'd suggest you actually look at the Factcheck site I linked to. Not only are those sentences there, they're in bold.

Sorry...I didn't look at the Factcheck link. I assumed that you had posted their explanation.

I've read it now and my earlier explanation stands. Obama's description of the civilian national security force is a separate statement from his mention and description of the mission of the other organizations. The statement is in conjunction with mention that the military can't meet all of our national security objectives.

I tend to be a simple fellow and take words at their simplest and plainest meanings. Liberals, on the other hand, see shades of gray and emanations and penumbras in everything.

You have to suspend disbelief to think that statement has anything to do with the Peace Corps.

[g8trjax]

Is this what we really want? Disarm the citizens and arm the government. 2700 armed vehicles and buying huge amounts of ammo?

Apparently so. Fact check says everything is OK.

[rivergator]

Sorry...I didn't look at the Factcheck link. I assumed that you had posted their explanation.



So you went off on Factcheck without actually reading it?


You have to suspend disbelief to think that statement has anything to do with the Peace Corps.

Or actually read what Obama said.

[Row6]

Under your premise of there being a possible "coup", I just said that its not a government preparing to start a coup. To me, it looks like a government preparing to stop a coup.

To me is easy to look at the progression of DHS and see historically what follows. I don't like the fact that all these agencies are being militarized and put in place on American streets. If the government sees it as acceptable to buy bulk ammo and weapons, I see no reason why the public can't do the same.

The government see it as acceptable to buy drones and nuclear weapons. I see a reason why we don't want the public doing the same.

[DSRrg]

The government see it as acceptable to buy drones and nuclear weapons. I see a reason why we don't want the public doing the same.

Some people buy million dollar sports cars but I can't because I don't have the means to do so. The comparison of buying guns and ammo to that of buying nuclear weapons is a ridiculous one. However it's the only argument most libs use. Lets stay in the realm of reality shall we.

[Lawdog88]

So let's see. The last time the government bought ammunition for these agencies in such quantities was what, five years ago - because they always do it that way - and because they are running out now ?

Or is this "securing ammunition for five years in advance," suddenly a new thing ?

I don't know and can't find out, but would like to know.

And the idea of shooting HP on the range as wad cutters "because agents typically practice with their carry ammunition" is some real B.S., or one heck of a waste of money.

[rivergator]

By the way, the original claim that the 2,700 armored vehicles were headed for the DHS: False. They're for the Marines.

link (http://www.suntimes.com/business/9928911-420/navistar-lands-880-million-defense-contract.html)

link (http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701)

[Lawdog88]

Since we're coming home from A'stan, I guess the Marines might need them in the next invasion ?

I wonder.

[rivergator]

Since we're coming home from A'stan, I guess the Marines might need them in the next invasion ?

I wonder.

so now equipping our military is an indication of something nefarious?

[Row6]

Some people buy million dollar sports cars but I can't because I don't have the means to do so. The comparison of buying guns and ammo to that of buying nuclear weapons is a ridiculous one. However it's the only argument most libs use. Lets stay in the realm of reality shall we.

Warren Buffet can't buy drones or nuclear weapons either - not even a machine gun. money isn't the issue.

[DSRrg]

Warren Buffet can't buy drones or nuclear weapons either - not even a machine gun. money isn't the issue.

He can most definitely buy a machine gun. Drones, he afford a squadron of them, however nuclear weapons are not on the table. That argument has no legs. The bottom line is about ammo and rifles. The MRAPs are just another asset to be used.

[Lawdog88]

so now equipping our military is an indication of something nefarious?


Just posed a rhetorical question, not sponsored a pissing contest, so you can look elsewhere for that.

You know, like wondering out loud, are IED's the wave of the future in all theaters of our possible invasion, such that the military would need to be prepared for ? Insurgent kinds of actions ?

If I were simply trying to get a sense of what and where the military perceives as the warfighting battlefields - not exclusively, of course - will be in the future, seems like the ME gets a strong nod, just based on our experience there, and with all of the available munitions laying around for insurgents to use.

So, make something nefarious out of that.

[HudsonGator]

Just posed a rhetorical question, not sponsored a pissing contest, so you can look elsewhere for that.

You know, like wondering out loud, are IED's the wave of the future in all theaters of our possible invasion, such that the military would need to be prepared for ? Insurgent kinds of actions ?

If I were simply trying to get a sense of what and where the military perceives as the warfighting battlefields - not exclusively, of course - will be in the future, seems like the ME gets a strong nod, just based on our experience there, and with all of the available munitions laying around for insurgents to use.

So, make something nefarious out of that.

The lunatics who advocate for allowing women into the combat arms think that all future wars are going to be like Afghanistan and Iraq.

I disagree, as history suggests that there is no reliable predictor of future conflicts.

Today it may be a low intensity insurgency, tomorrow we may be defending Japan from a Chinese invasion.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

[gatorman_07732]

The lunatics who advocate for allowing women into the combat arms think that all future wars are going to be like Afghanistan and Iraq.

I disagree, as history suggests that there is no reliable predictor of future conflicts.

Today it may be a low intensity insurgency, tomorrow we may be defending Japan from a Chinese invasion.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Every once in a while you make sense

[HudsonGator]

Every once in a while you make sense

Yes, sort of a blind squirrel/broken clock sort of thing.

[gatorman_07732]

Yes, sort of a blind squirrel/broken clock sort of thing.

Well there you go, you lost me on your very next post

[Wormwood56]

The full quote:



And, of course, Factcheck makes it clear:



link (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/obamas-national-security-force/)

You are going to quote a left-wing public policy organization as your rebuttal?:laugh:

[HudsonGator]

Well there you go, you lost me on your very next post

Two common expressions:

"Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes."

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

[gatorman_07732]

Two common expressions:

"Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes."

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

Thanks for clearing that up, but is there proof a blind squirrel can find an acorn?

[rivergator]

You are going to quote a left-wing public policy organization as your rebuttal?:laugh:

i guess the fact that Factcheck actually checks facts makes it left-wing

[Lawdog88]

The lunatics who advocate for allowing women into the combat arms think that all future wars are going to be like Afghanistan and Iraq.

I disagree, as history suggests that there is no reliable predictor of future conflicts.

Today it may be a low intensity insurgency, tomorrow we may be defending Japan from a Chinese invasion.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."


And just today, for instance, Pooh Bear, Ilk Yung-un today said that he was not going to abide by the 1953 Korean armistice any longer.


SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea vowed Tuesday to cancel the 1953 cease-fire that ended the Korean War, citing a U.S.-led push for punishing U.N. sanctions over its recent nuclear test and ongoing U.S.-South Korean joint military drills. Without elaborating, the Korean People's Army Supreme Command warned of "surgical strikes" meant to unify the divided Korean Peninsula and of an indigenous, "precision nuclear striking tool." The statement came amid reports that Washington and North Korean ally Beijing have approved a draft of a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for sanctions in response to North Korea's Feb. 12 nuclear test. The draft is expected to be circulated at the U.N. this week.

Heated military rhetoric is common from North Korea when tensions rise on the Korean Peninsula and during U.S.-South Korean war games, but this latest statement is unusually specific. It threatens to block a communications line between North Korea and the United States at the border village separating the two Koreas, and to nullify the 60-year-old Korean War armistice agreement on March 11, when two weeks of U.S.-South Korean military drills will draw 10,000 South Korean and 3,500 U.S. forces. An earlier round of drills between the allies began earlier this month.

Pyongyang's recent nuclear test and rocket launches, and the subsequent call for U.N. punishment, have increased already high animosity between the North and Washington and Seoul. The United States and others worry that North Korea's third nuclear test takes it a big step closer toward its goal of having nuclear-armed missiles that can reach America, and condemn its nuclear and missile efforts as threats to regional security and a drain on the resources that could go to North Korea's largely destitute people. North Korea says its nuclear program is a response to U.S. hostility that dates back to the 1950-53 Korean War, which ended with an armistice, not a peace treaty, leaving the Korean Peninsula still technically in a state of war.

The North's statement called U.S.-South Korean military drills a "dangerous nuclear war targeted at us." "We aim to launch surgical strikes at any time and any target without being bounded by the armistice accord and advance our long-cherished wish for national unification," the statement said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/north-korea-threats_n_2810157.html


Sorry for the hijack/deflection.

[MastaG8r]

Larry Liberal: Hey Carl...why do you need to own an assault rifle? Huh, Carl? Why do you need it? Don't tell me why you want it, Carl, tell me why you need it. If you can't give me a satisfactory explanation for why you need that assault rifle then you shouldn't be allowed to have it, Carl.

Carl Conservative: Well...it's my Constitutional right to have one, Larry, and I can spend my own money however I want. But since you mention it, how come 0bama is spending our money - that's your money and mine, Larry - on millions of rounds of ammo and weaponry and vehicles for the Dept. of Homeland Security? Why do they need so much of it? Huh, Larry? Following your logic, if 0bama can't give us a satisfactory explanation for why he needs all that stuff then he shouldn't be allowed to have it, right?

Larry Liberal: You're some kind of crazy kook, Carl! How dare you demand that 0bama explain how he spends our money! OBVIOUSLY everything he does is for a good reason. He doesn't have to answer to you for his actions! Now tell me again Carl, why do you need an assault rifle? Why Carl, why!?!

[rivergator]

Larry Liberal: Hey Carl...why do you need to own an assault rifle? Huh, Carl? Why do you need it? Don't tell me why you want it, Carl, tell me why you need it. If you can't give me a satisfactory explanation for why you need that assault rifle then you shouldn't be allowed to have it, Carl.

Carl Conservative: Well...it's my Constitutional right to have one, Larry, and I can spend my own money however I want. But since you mention it, how come 0bama is spending our money - that's your money and mine, Larry - on millions of rounds of ammo and weaponry and vehicles for the Dept. of Homeland Security? Why do they need so much of it? Huh, Larry? Following your logic, if 0bama can't give us a satisfactory explanation for why he needs all that stuff then he shouldn't be allowed to have it, right?

Larry Liberal: You're some kind of crazy kook, Carl! How dare you demand that 0bama explain how he spends our money! OBVIOUSLY everything he does is for a good reason. He doesn't have to answer to you for his actions! Now tell me again Carl, why do you need an assault rifle? Why Carl, why!?!


One more time: Those vehicles are for the Marines. Rightwingers just started the rumor that they were for DHS.

[HudsonGator]

Larry Liberal: Hey Carl...why do you need to own an assault rifle? Huh, Carl? Why do you need it? Don't tell me why you want it, Carl, tell me why you need it. If you can't give me a satisfactory explanation for why you need that assault rifle then you shouldn't be allowed to have it, Carl.

Carl Conservative: Well...it's my Constitutional right to have one, Larry, and I can spend my own money however I want. But since you mention it, how come 0bama is spending our money - that's your money and mine, Larry - on millions of rounds of ammo and weaponry and vehicles for the Dept. of Homeland Security? Why do they need so much of it? Huh, Larry? Following your logic, if 0bama can't give us a satisfactory explanation for why he needs all that stuff then he shouldn't be allowed to have it, right?

Larry Liberal: You're some kind of crazy kook, Carl! How dare you demand that 0bama explain how he spends our money! OBVIOUSLY everything he does is for a good reason. He doesn't have to answer to you for his actions! Now tell me again Carl, why do you need an assault rifle? Why Carl, why!?!


http://interlockroc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tinfoilhat.jpg

[HALLGATOR]

By the way, the original claim that the 2,700 armored vehicles were headed for the DHS: False. They're for the Marines.

link (http://www.suntimes.com/business/9928911-420/navistar-lands-880-million-defense-contract.html)

link (http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701)

Going by this it appears the thread was started using wrong information.