Is the job picture actually worse than it looks

[g8orbill]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2013/02/28/mort-zuckerman-the-jobs-picture-is-far-worse-than-it-looks

From the article:

12.3 million today are fully unemployed, compared to 12.8 million in 1933 at the depth of the depression. The difference is that now they're invisible, because we've organized relief differently. In our "recovery," the millions are being assisted, out of sight, by the government, through unemployment checks, Social Security disability checks, and food stamps. More than 47 million Americans are in the food stamp program, some 15 percent of the total population, compared with the 7.9 percent participation in food stamps from 1970 to 2000. Then there are the more than 11 million Americans who are collecting checks from Social Security to compensate for disability, a record. Half of them have signed on since President Obama came to office. Twenty years ago, one person was on disability for every 35 workers; today, the ratio is one for every 16. Such an increase is simply impossible to explain by disability experienced during employment, for it is inconceivable that work in America has become so much more dangerous. For many, this program is another unemployment program, only this time it is without end.

[surfn1080]

My wife is a social worker for Orlando health. She see many things that really upset me. It's amazing to me that I also see what appears to be able bodied young individuals collecting 800-1200 a month for ssdi. I'm a mortgage broker and so by law I have to do what I can but it definitely erks me.

[jimgata]

Of course it is worse than reported and has been known by everyone, except the left and the media, for years.

[GatorFanCF]

Population in 1933 = 126 million 12 million unemployed = about 10%
Population in 2013 = 330 million 12 million unemployed = about 4%
Sure, if you add up the Food Stamps, and SSDI the total is 70 million or over 20%.

Here is, IMHO, what is worse: the idea you cannot get a job. I know a 22 year old male, convicted for a drug offense (felony), who got a job working for trade contractor in Orlando on HIS FIRST INTERVIEW he went on after being out of jail. I've told my children "if you can convince the person hiring you will do these 3 things you will never lack for work: 1. you won't steal from them, 2. you will regularly show up on time and work through the day, 3. you will be coachable." Every business owner I've asked agrees with that statement.

What is worse is not that these programs exist it is that we as a nation are becoming so weak that we settle for the scraps off the producers table. It has been written here on THFSG that a parent making under $10,000 annually is actually better off than the person making $25,000 because of various societal support program$$$$. I believe most people care about their fellow man - but only 15 - 20% are willing to have that difficult conversation with the neighbor, give some money to a friend who is struggling but trying to do the right thing. We've outsourced "caring" the government and it's going to hurt us and hurt us badly before it gets better. When the government can not longer deliver to the needy folks - who do not know their neighbor, who do not have relationships with others outside their economic circle (not saying it's their fault or 100% their responsibility, it's not) - will be angry and will do whatever they can to provide for themselves. That's the day it bites us in the place where our wallets used to be.

[g8orbill]

Population in 1933 = 126 million 12 million unemployed = about 10%
Population in 2013 = 330 million 12 million unemployed = about 4%
Sure, if you add up the Food Stamps, and SSDI the total is 70 million or over 20%.

Here is, IMHO, what is worse: the idea you cannot get a job. I know a 22 year old male, convicted for a drug offense (felony), who got a job working for trade contractor in Orlando on HIS FIRST INTERVIEW he went on after being out of jail. I've told my children "if you can convince the person hiring you will do these 3 things you will never lack for work: 1. you won't steal from them, 2. you will regularly show up on time and work through the day, 3. you will be coachable." Every business owner I've asked agrees with that statement.

What is worse is not that these programs exist it is that we as a nation are becoming so weak that we settle for the scraps off the producers table. It has been written here on THFSG that a parent making under $10,000 annually is actually better off than the person making $25,000 because of various societal support program$$$$. I believe most people care about their fellow man - but only 15 - 20% are willing to have that difficult conversation with the neighbor, give some money to a friend who is struggling but trying to do the right thing. We've outsourced "caring" the government and it's going to hurt us and hurt us badly before it gets better. When the government can not longer deliver to the needy folks - who do not know their neighbor, who do not have relationships with others outside their economic circle (not saying it's their fault or 100% their responsibility, it's not) - will be angry and will do whatever they can to provide for themselves. That's the day it bites us in the place where our wallets used to be.

yeppers

[JerseyGator01]

This is not a recovery. It's a long market corrected of the hysteria created by the media prior to Obama's election in 2008. The market panicked and has slowly gotten over it.

[northgagator]

This is not a recovery. It's a long market corrected of the hysteria created by the media prior to Obama's election in 2008. The market panicked and has slowly gotten over it.

I agree with you up to a point but there was a big impact to the economy by the:
1, The mortgage bubble bursting. We all to a degree have a share of the blame on this one. Our meddling with supply and demand git us into that mess. The impact of this event is that billions of dollars vaporized when the values of the houses came down to their real level if cost. With that vaporization many companies and former home owners had some losses to absorb. If we had not of meddled with the process the phrase "bubble burst" would be referred to a bath time event for your kids.

2, The fall of GM was totally unnecessary. The US Government had no business taking on debt that it could not afford. We would of been better off by letting GM fall and let the business pick up the remaining assets and use them to make some real money. There would of been some bitter pills to swallow but in five to ten years we would be better off. For one thing the gov't would not be hold share of crappy GM stock.

[JerseyGator01]

Yep, those to factors just made the media's work easier.

[gatordowneast]

If Bush were still president or any pub for that matter, the real # would not be 12 M + but the 23 M if you include those working part time that are trying to find full time employment and of course the millions who have simply given up. The lap dog media will not be truthful and I'm pretty convinced those who work in the dept of labor do everything possible to make chicken $hit look like chicken salad for Obama. Can't prove it, but someone can and likely will when the books are written about President Obama.

[mastoidbone]

since Obama came into power I have also seen many more patients, some in 20s, on SS and medicare for bogus disability.

Saw a 27 year old on SS and medicare for anxiety.....well, guess what, alot of us are anxious about mortgage, kids schools, and iran.....

OA has passed rules making it MUCH easier to get on disability-----much.

under obama you can now simply self report your disabilty, just claim pain and suffering and you are set for life.

http://www.nber.org/bah/fall06/w12436.html

also, OA has increased payment---so low income workers can make 90% of salary by saying their back hurts.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/06/04/add-disability-to-obamas-anti-jobs-policies/

[surfn1080]

Population in 1933 = 126 million 12 million unemployed = about 10%
Population in 2013 = 330 million 12 million unemployed = about 4%
Sure, if you add up the Food Stamps, and SSDI the total is 70 million or over 20%.

Here is, IMHO, what is worse: the idea you cannot get a job. I know a 22 year old male, convicted for a drug offense (felony), who got a job working for trade contractor in Orlando on HIS FIRST INTERVIEW he went on after being out of jail. I've told my children "if you can convince the person hiring you will do these 3 things you will never lack for work: 1. you won't steal from them, 2. you will regularly show up on time and work through the day, 3. you will be coachable." Every business owner I've asked agrees with that statement.

What is worse is not that these programs exist it is that we as a nation are becoming so weak that we settle for the scraps off the producers table. It has been written here on THFSG that a parent making under $10,000 annually is actually better off than the person making $25,000 because of various societal support program$$$$. I believe most people care about their fellow man - but only 15 - 20% are willing to have that difficult conversation with the neighbor, give some money to a friend who is struggling but trying to do the right thing. We've outsourced "caring" the government and it's going to hurt us and hurt us badly before it gets better. When the government can not longer deliver to the needy folks - who do not know their neighbor, who do not have relationships with others outside their economic circle (not saying it's their fault or 100% their responsibility, it's not) - will be angry and will do whatever they can to provide for themselves. That's the day it bites us in the place where our wallets used to be.

you cant take the whole population and calculate that as unemployment numbers. You have to take out children and those that are retired. Our real number is 14%

[ncgatr1]

I'm just hoping to make it to retirement, and then I loading up the wife and my assests and leaving these parasites for Northern Scotland. I figure it's safe enough and far enough to watch the parasites destroy this great Country.

[Dreamliner]

I'm just hoping to make it to retirement, and then I loading up the wife and my assests and leaving these parasites for Northern Scotland. I figure it's safe enough and far enough to watch the parasites destroy this great Country.

Isn't Scotland basically the welfare queen of UK though ?

It actually pains me to imagine it, since my ancestors are said to be from Ayrshire.

[gatorman_07732]

Isn't Scotland basically the welfare queen of UK though ?

It actually pains me to imagine it, since my ancestors are said to be from Ayrshire.

I thought the Scotts were supposed to be frugal

[Dreamliner]

I thought the Scotts were supposed to be frugal

I think they're welfare queens nowadays. No Bravehearts anymore.

[gatorman_07732]

I think they're welfare queens nowadays. No Bravehearts anymore.

Kinda like here then

[Dreamliner]

Kinda like here then

I'm guessing even worse.

[gatorman_07732]

I'm guessing even worse.

Well the next step from us is italy then Greece. I mean we are in a race to the bottom and this president seems hell bent on getting us there. Look at all the people hooked on gov

[Dreamliner]

Well the next step from us is italy then Greece. I mean we are in a race to the bottom and this president seems hell bent on getting us there. Look at all the people hooked on gov

I'm afraid it's even worse than that. It's the people more than the president. It's the people who continue to vote for unsustainability. The politicians merely give them what they clamor for. Seems like the people ought to be grateful. Only they're angrier than ever.

[gatorman_07732]

I'm afraid it's even worse than that. It's the people more than the president. It's the people who continue to vote for unsustainability. The politicians merely give them what they clamor for. Seems like the people ought to be grateful. Only they're angrier than ever.

Oh yeah, it's easy to get people hooked on being unproductive and have them look to the government to solve all their problems. Roosevelt started this whole mentality and we went from rugged individualism to a bunch of self absorbed lazy whinny malcontents. Once parents become like this, it's all their kids see and then you have the perpetual never ending cycle

[ncgatr1]

I don't know if they are welfare queens but the people are nice and if you can put up with cool weather, it's a great place to retire. There seems to be a growing number of Americans whom are looking at Scotland and England for places to retire. A friend of mine spent three weeks there and now he is trying to move there and give up his American citizenship.

[GatorFanCF]

surfn1080 - the point was to show equivalency. 12 million unemployed against a population in 1933 of 126 million is a lot different than 12 million unemployed against a population today of 330 million. And, why can't you take the whole population as long as you're consistent and don't keep changing the rules (people not looking for work don't count - for example)? I agree that it would be more accurate to take the population aged 20 - 65 as a basis; but, that's not what was laid out in the OP.

[JerseyGator01]

I was unemployed for most of two years five years ago and I was never included on the rolls of the unemployed in Jersey although I was collecting unemployment. Unemployment stats, like most government stats, are bunk these days given the incompetent bureaucrats that dominate our government. To compare today's stats with those of the Depression is laughable.

CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

[GatorAvatar]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2013/02/28/mort-zuckerman-the-jobs-picture-is-far-worse-than-it-looks

From the article:

12.3 million today are fully unemployed, compared to 12.8 million in 1933 at the depth of the depression. The difference is that now they're invisible, because we've organized relief differently. In our "recovery," the millions are being assisted, out of sight, by the government, through unemployment checks, Social Security disability checks, and food stamps. More than 47 million Americans are in the food stamp program, some 15 percent of the total population, compared with the 7.9 percent participation in food stamps from 1970 to 2000. Then there are the more than 11 million Americans who are collecting checks from Social Security to compensate for disability, a record. Half of them have signed on since President Obama came to office. Twenty years ago, one person was on disability for every 35 workers; today, the ratio is one for every 16. Such an increase is simply impossible to explain by disability experienced during employment, for it is inconceivable that work in America has become so much more dangerous. For many, this program is another unemployment program, only this time it is without end.

What was the population in 1933?

[GatorAvatar]

You guys need some education. Watch this report and here what business people are saying.

Technological advances, especially robotics, are revolutionizing the workplace, but not necessarily creating jobs. Steve Kroft reports.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57563618/are-robots-hurting-job-growth/

[gatorman_07732]

You guys need some education. Watch this report and here what business people are saying.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57563618/are-robots-hurting-job-growth/

I honestly doubt you can give me an education when it comes to technology. There are many high tech industries hurting for people and this has always been the case. We don't have the talent here in this country to fill the jobs, why the heck do you think there is a market for people on H1 Visa's. The employment market in general is not good in this country, hence the high unemployment numbers and people whose unimplemented ran out who are not working. I can pick out several industries hiring for people including fine in fiber optics, but that means nothing in the big picture.

[GatorFanCF]

What was the population in 1933? Avatar - read the post two above yours.

[Dreamliner]

I don't know if they are welfare queens but the people are nice and if you can put up with cool weather, it's a great place to retire. There seems to be a growing number of Americans whom are looking at Scotland and England for places to retire. A friend of mine spent three weeks there and now he is trying to move there and give up his American citizenship.

Good God! I can envision any number of countries that might offer more freedom than the US, but UK ? :whoa:

[Gatorrick22]

Population in 1933 = 126 million 12 million unemployed = about 10%
Population in 2013 = 330 million 12 million unemployed = about 4%
Sure, if you add up the Food Stamps, and SSDI the total is 70 million or over 20%.

Here is, IMHO, what is worse: the idea you cannot get a job. I know a 22 year old male, convicted for a drug offense (felony), who got a job working for trade contractor in Orlando on HIS FIRST INTERVIEW he went on after being out of jail. I've told my children "if you can convince the person hiring you will do these 3 things you will never lack for work: 1. you won't steal from them, 2. you will regularly show up on time and work through the day, 3. you will be coachable." Every business owner I've asked agrees with that statement.

What is worse is not that these programs exist it is that we as a nation are becoming so weak that we settle for the scraps off the producers table. It has been written here on THFSG that a parent making under $10,000 annually is actually better off than the person making $25,000 because of various societal support program$$$$. I believe most people care about their fellow man - but only 15 - 20% are willing to have that difficult conversation with the neighbor, give some money to a friend who is struggling but trying to do the right thing. We've outsourced "caring" the government and it's going to hurt us and hurt us badly before it gets better. When the government can not longer deliver to the needy folks - who do not know their neighbor, who do not have relationships with others outside their economic circle (not saying it's their fault or 100% their responsibility, it's not) - will be angry and will do whatever they can to provide for themselves. That's the day it bites us in the place where our wallets used to be.

I thought unemployment was +8% ? Are more than half of them not even looking for employment?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I thought unemployment was +8% ? Are more than half of them not even looking for employment?

He calculated total unemployment. Our actual unemployment figures obviously do not include children or those who are retired.

[Gatorrick22]

He calculated total unemployment. Our actual unemployment figures obviously do not include children or those who are retired.

As soon as I hit send I figured it out.... Chose to get confirmation though - Thanks.

[Gatormb]

My wife is a social worker for Orlando health. She see many things that really upset me. It's amazing to me that I also see what appears to be able bodied young individuals collecting 800-1200 a month for ssdi. I'm a mortgage broker and so by law I have to do what I can but it definitely erks me.

Been in the same business for 35 years (you going to Tallahassee in 2 weeks?) and if I had $100 for every applicant on SSI who gave me the "yeah but I work under the table" line I could retire a wealthy man.

There's a mortgage broker in Venice who does a ton of reverses and she's on 100% disability. Knocks down 10-15k per month and has her company pay her husband.

May have changed recently with the new NMLS reporting but I'll bet she's found a way around it. I had an opportunity to hire her seven years ago and passed.

[RealGatorFan]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2013/02/28/mort-zuckerman-the-jobs-picture-is-far-worse-than-it-looks

From the article:

12.3 million today are fully unemployed, compared to 12.8 million in 1933 at the depth of the depression. The difference is that now they're invisible, because we've organized relief differently. In our "recovery," the millions are being assisted, out of sight, by the government, through unemployment checks, Social Security disability checks, and food stamps. More than 47 million Americans are in the food stamp program, some 15 percent of the total population, compared with the 7.9 percent participation in food stamps from 1970 to 2000. Then there are the more than 11 million Americans who are collecting checks from Social Security to compensate for disability, a record. Half of them have signed on since President Obama came to office. Twenty years ago, one person was on disability for every 35 workers; today, the ratio is one for every 16. Such an increase is simply impossible to explain by disability experienced during employment, for it is inconceivable that work in America has become so much more dangerous. For many, this program is another unemployment program, only this time it is without end.

Did they actually compare population numbers from 1930s and today? If so, they should be stripped of every title and service they have. Such incompetence should be rewarded with immediate poverty.

[RealGatorFan]

Unemployment and underemployment are 2 different things. There is also the issue of being employed but not in your area of expertise. My older brother with nearly 45 yrs experience in photography is a manager for a phone solicitations company. Many people who were laid off are in areas that they originally didn't come from and nearly 90% of them didn't go up the ladder.

[108]

If Bush were still president or any pub for that matter, the real # would not be 12 M + but the 23 M if you include those working part time that are trying to find full time employment and of course the millions who have simply given up. The lap dog media will not be truthful and I'm pretty convinced those who work in the dept of labor do everything possible to make chicken $hit look like chicken salad for Obama. Can't prove it, but someone can and likely will when the books are written about President Obama.

that simply isn't true....they didn't recently just change the way the counted the unemployed