Medicaid Birth Epidemic

[QGator2414]

There has been talk of doing away with labor and delivery in Ocala at MRMC and since we just had our third child there (great experiences) I decided to look up the percent of births in Marion County that are paid by Medicaid.

67.5%

http://www.floridacharts.com/charts/DataViewer/BirthViewer/BirthViewer.aspx?cid=595

This is more than a problem...

We really need to start requiring the mother and father or their families to provide community service by the child's first birthday (100 hoursish each) and begin to teach responsibility while helping people.

[rivergator]

that's surprising and disappointing on every level

[mocgator]

Obama's America.

Enjoy.

[QGator2414]

that's surprising and disappointing on every level

Agreed. I expected it to be bad but not that bad...

[gatordowneast]

Obama's America.

Enjoy.

Wonder how many birth certificates have a question mark in the blank provided for the "baby daddys" name?

Also wonder if Corrine Brown doesn't have someone in Ocala passing out "Free $hit Manuals your Federal Government" to each momma and baby daddy and a reloadable EBT card to each new little future ward of the state? Pink? Blue? or Purple?

[G8trGr8t]

that's surprising and disappointing on every level

No surprise as that is the demographic that is being promoted by gubmnt policies

[DesertGator]

Also wonder if Corrine Brown doesn't have someone in Ocala passing out "Free $hit Manuals your Federal Government" to each momma and baby daddy and a reloadable EBT card to each new little future ward of the state? Pink? Blue? or Purple?

The manual already exists .. :sarcasm:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/MattLesko-cropped.jpg

[JerseyGator01]

Every black child born in Philadelphia is considered by the government to be an at-risk child. Welcome to reality.

[rivergator]

So people are pretending this started under Obama and is somehow limited to Corrine Brown's district?

[dangolegators]

^^^Well, people like Moc are.

[dangolegators]

If you want to get a better picture, and I know the "welcome to Obama's America folks" don't, you could look at this table to see how the percentages have changed over the years. Statewide, you see the percentage shot up between 2004 and 2005, from 36% to 44%, then leveled off (as the economy heated up) and then jumped to 47% in 2009 with the recession.

http://www.floridacharts.com/charts/DataViewer/BirthViewer/TenYrsRpt.aspx?q=s3Y69Q8dF5YNtRUDoZGMTQC3YDDYqSv8c ILGjeHOcmyM9MKujQbffyI%2f5rgE1Y8f

[tegator80]

So people are pretending this started under Obama and is somehow limited to Corrine Brown's district?

This idea of helping the "deserving" has been going on for a long time. That is indisputable. The problem is that the O came along when we need to stop thinking that we can do everything. But once people are hooked on the free stuff, it is hard to get them unaddicted (see Greece). Once some people know they can get something for nothing do you honestly think they are going to get religion on their own accord?

The only way out of this is hard truths. And in this case, I see Detroit as the future.

[gatorpa]

There has been talk of doing away with labor and delivery in Ocala at MRMC and since we just had our third child there (great experiences) I decided to look up the percent of births in Marion County that are paid by Medicaid.

67.5%

http://www.floridacharts.com/charts/DataViewer/BirthViewer/BirthViewer.aspx?cid=595

This is more than a problem...

We really need to start requiring the mother and father or their families to provide community service by the child's first birthday (100 hoursish each) and begin to teach responsibility while helping people.

Look into the massive rise in single parent births, that will shock you as well...I wonder if there is any correlation, hmmm....

[NJG8tor]

Wonder how many of these are illegal immigrant births.

[rivergator]

Wonder how many of these are illegal immigrant births.

Don't know. But it looks like Franklin County has the highest rate in the state at 75 percent. I know that county pretty well and I don't see many immigrants there, legal or illegal.

And for those who claim it's a Democratic thing, Franklin went heavily for Romney. And McCain. And Bush. And Bush ...

[vangator1]

Obamanomics don't care if you're D or R.

[QGator2414]

So people are pretending this started under Obama and is somehow limited to Corrine Brown's district?

No. His policies are not doing anything to help but will continue the course...

I don't know what to say about Corrine Brown other than the University of Florida should be embarrassed she has a degree from it. Her district cuts through Marion County but fortunately not Ocala...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KgbBP9Em00A


Do love the school spirit though!

[QGator2414]

Look into the massive rise in single parent births, that will shock you as well...I wonder if there is any correlation, hmmm....

No doubt! Another epidemic...

[VAg8r1]

Since we all like charts, could there be a relationship between Medicaid births and the unemployment rate? Florida's unemployment rate from the BLS:
http://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LASST12000003_2002_2012_all_period_ M12_data_unemployment%2Brate.gif

[QGator2414]

Since we all like charts, could there be a relationship between Medicaid births and the unemployment rate? Florida's unemployment rate from the BLS:
http://data.bls.gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_LASST12000003_2002_2012_all_period_ M12_data_unemployment%2Brate.gif

I think you will find this graph to work more closely with economic indicators.

Though gatorpa's assertion of fatherless births I think would show a lot of correlation...

[HALLGATOR]

I think there is a correlation between employment rate and the amount of births under Medicaid but I also think there is one that may be bigger. That is a correlation between people having babies and not having to foot any of the cost for doing so.

[rivergator]

The biggest year-to-year increase was 2004-2005

[QGator2414]

I think there is a correlation between employment rate and the amount of births under Medicaid but I also think there is one that may be bigger. That is a correlation between people having babies and not having to foot any of the cost for doing so.

Yes!

Which is why we need to mandate 100 hours or so of community service by the child's first birthday from both parents...

[QGator2414]

The biggest year-to-year increase was 2004-2005

This problem started at the inception of the program. When there is nothing included to build people up and create responsibility an expectation is created...

[HudsonGator]

Just sterilize all poor people, problem solved.

[QGator2414]

Just sterilize all poor people, problem solved.

I assume this is satire. Which is wildly misplaced because it is truly absurd that we have this many irresponsible people getting pregnant when they cannot afford to take care of the precious life they created.

Helping out while creating a sense of responsibility is a practical approach that our government sadly does not have the will to do...

[dangolegators]

Just think how bad it would be if abortion were illegal.

[MichiGator2002]

Just think how bad it would be if abortion were illegal.

We would miss out on so much slaughter!

Imagine how much better it would be if we hadn't intentionally extinguished the social norm expecting mothers and fathers to take joint responsibility for raising children and the implicit understanding that they were both equally necessary.

[dangolegators]

Right. Everything would be Leave-It-to-Beaver perfect if we just hadn't made abortion legal.

[QGator2414]

We would miss out on so much slaughter!

Imagine how much better it would be if we hadn't intentionally extinguished the social norm expecting mothers and fathers to take joint responsibility for raising children and the implicit understanding that they were both equally necessary.

Precisely...

[QGator2414]

Right. Everything would be Leave-It-to-Beaver perfect if we just hadn't made abortion legal.

There will always be irresponsible people. But instead of using the slaughter of babies (more irresponsible and flat wrong compared to stepping up to take care of the life one created) as a way to justify saving money maybe we should teach people about responsibility rather than compound the problem by acting like murdering an innocent life is okay.

It is no wonder we are having issues with responsibility when you recognize how we value life!

[MichiGator2002]

Right. Everything would be Leave-It-to-Beaver perfect if we just hadn't made abortion legal.

Much closer if there was still a leave-it-to-beaver expectation for people to live up to.

[QGator2414]

Much closer if there was still a leave-it-to-beaver expectation for people to live up to.

Spot on!

Sadly the emotional PC crowd does so much damage to society with their feelings.

Trophies for everyone...

[wygator]

So 2/3 of those birth are Medicare/Medicaid. Put on top of that the fact that they now only reimburse at a rate of 25 to 30% of charges.

What are the true costs of these policies now and who pays? The costs are shifted to everyone who actually has insurance or pays their bills directly. It's called "cost shifting" and it's a big part of Obamacare yet to come.

[dangolegators]

Much closer if there was still a leave-it-to-beaver expectation for people to live up to.

Abortion is a product of our culture, not a cause of it. But you can cling to your fantasy world of 1950s perfection if you want to.

[JerseyGator01]

A fetus would no doubt feel much safer in a 1950s environment without government-funded abortionists around.

CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

[dangolegators]

So 2/3 of those birth are Medicare/Medicaid. Put on top of that the fact that they now only reimburse at a rate of 25 to 30% of charges.

What are the true costs of these policies now and who pays? The costs are shifted to everyone who actually has insurance or pays their bills directly. It's called "cost shifting" and it's a big part of Obamacare yet to come.

What is your solution for people who can't afford insurance/healthcare?

[rivergator]

Spot on!

Sadly the emotional PC crowd does so much damage to society with their feelings.

Trophies for everyone...

Oh, that's right. It's Obama. No, wait, it's Corrine Brown. No, wait, it's the PC crowd.

Maybe you should hang out with the people having the Medicaid births and see how PC they are. Let me guess, they're elitists, too?

[MichiGator2002]

Abortion is a product of our culture, not a cause of it. But you can cling to your fantasy world of 1950s perfection if you want to.

It isn't an either/or. Abortion is a product of social decay, that has in turn exacerbated it.

[wygator]

What is your solution for people who can't afford insurance/healthcare?

Not sure, but it's not Obamacare. The so-called Affordable Health Care Act is projected to leave 26 million uninsured when it is fully in place.

I'd suggest that since they are going to have difficulty projecting how many families will choose to pay the penalty rather than pay for more expensive health insurance, the number of uninsured could well be even higher.

There will also be some who can afford it but who think they can't. The article talks about a lady with a 1200 rent payment and $500 car payment...that's likely a new car. Says she can't afford health insurance. I probably make substantially more than she does, but we buy older used cars for cash. Save on price and interest, save on insurance costs, etc.

Somewhere along the way, partly because of third party payers where we are removed for the process of being directly involved in the cost and payment for healthcare, people have gotten used to the idea of someone else paying for it.

The way to go is large deductibles, policies that don't cover well check-ups and basic doctor visits (car insurance doesn't cover tires or oil changes), where you are only using health insurance for major medical events.

Then the govt can provide for the genuinely poor with real means testing.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47873215/Millions_Still_Go_Uninsured_If_Obamacare_Survives

[dangolegators]

Not sure, but it's not Obamacare. The so-called Affordable Health Care Act is projected to leave 26 million uninsured when it is fully in place.

I'd suggest that since they are going to have difficulty projecting how many families will choose to pay the penalty rather than pay for more expensive health insurance, the number of uninsured could well be even higher.

There will also be some who can afford it but who think they can't. The article talks about a lady with a 1200 rent payment and $500 car payment...that's likely a new car. Says she can't afford health insurance. I probably make substantially more than she does, but we buy older used cars for cash. Save on price and interest, save on insurance costs, etc.

Somewhere along the way, partly because of third party payers where we are removed for the process of being directly involved in the cost and payment for healthcare, people have gotten used to the idea of someone else paying for it.

The way to go is large deductibles, policies that don't cover well check-ups and basic doctor visits (car insurance doesn't cover tires or oil changes), where you are only using health insurance for major medical events.

Then the govt can provide for the genuinely poor with real means testing.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47873215/Millions_Still_Go_Uninsured_If_Obamacare_Survives

Ok, so you don't have a solution to the problem.

Also, you can choose to have a large deductible under Obamacare.

[QGator2414]

What is your solution for people who can't afford insurance/healthcare?

In this scenario where an irresponsible decision was made the requirement to provide community service by both parents in return for the taxpayer paying for the birth of the life created.

[QGator2414]

Oh, that's right. It's Obama. No, wait, it's Corrine Brown. No, wait, it's the PC crowd.

Maybe you should hang out with the people having the Medicaid births and see how PC they are. Let me guess, they're elitists, too?

They are not the emotional PC crowd. They are the ones who need guidance and education about being responsible but the emotional PC crowd is incapable of providing that because it is easier to just give money...

SAD!

Edit: btw I never blamed this epidemic solely on anyone!

[dangolegators]

In this scenario where an irresponsible decision was made the requirement to provide community service by both parents in return for the taxpayer paying for the birth of the life created.

What about people who get sick and can't pay their bill? Should they have to do community service too? And how is this going solve the problem of not being able to pay for healthcare?

[QGator2414]

What about people who get sick and can't pay their bill? Should they have to do community service too? And how is this going solve the problem of not being able to pay for healthcare?

Yes. And anyone with an ounce of gratitude would do so with no complaints for helping out in a time of need...others need it to help teach them responsibility!

[QGator2414]

What about people who get sick and can't pay their bill? Should they have to do community service too? And how is this going solve the problem of not being able to pay for healthcare?

Is this thread about solving healthcare?

I thought I was pretty specific on a serious issue affecting our country.

[dangolegators]

Is this thread about solving healthcare?

I thought I was pretty specific on a serious issue affecting our country.

So you're dodging the question. A poster brought up Obamacare and claimed that it would make things worse. I asked him what his solution would be. You attempted to give a very narrow answer to my question and I asked you to expand on it. Now you say this thread isn't about the healthcare problem. Got it. You have no answer.

[QGator2414]

So you're dodging the question. A poster brought up Obamacare and claimed that it would make things worse. I asked him what his solution would be. You attempted to give a very narrow answer to my question and I asked you to expand on it. Now you say this thread isn't about the healthcare problem. Got it. You have no answer.

Obamacare will make things worse in that it expands Medicaid with no controls to help teach responsibility in cases like this where people made a poor decision.

If you create a life you need to be responsible enough to care for it. If you need help then you should give back to society for helping you in a time of need.

Off topic like healthcare...the same should be done for Foodstamps. Not only should food be prepackaged at qualified grociers but after X a,punt of time receiving it Y amount of community service is required to continue being a part of the program.

Unfortunately the emotional PC crowd finds this harsh and does massive damage by just writing checks. Sadly the damage done is not repairable in some cases and dependence continues on...

[dangolegators]

Yes, we know you think Obamacare bad. What would you do in it's place?

[wygator]

Ok, so you don't have a solution to the problem.

Also, you can choose to have a large deductible under Obamacare.

Actually, I think I do. The large deductible policies under Obamacare will still cost more than they should because of mandated coverages that, in the past, people could choose no to buy in their policies.

The government won't be using any actuarial sense and it will be a recipe for disaster. Because they are the govt, and not a business, they'll keep shoring it up with tax funds, but in the end it will degrade the quality of care in the country and further accelerate the deficit.

[QGator2414]

Yes, we know you think Obamacare bad. What would you do in it's place?

That has nothing to do with this thread.

Go research healthcare threads I have been in on if you want to know. To make it simple...

Less government involvement.

HSA's
Less mandated coverage (real insurance)
Sell across state lines
Allow my small business to group with other businesses in our trade
PA/NP clinics for the small stuff
Etc

Ironically you just ignore what this thread is about and my solution. Are you worried about someone's feelings being hurt if they are asked to give something back for making the decision to create a life?

[QGator2414]

Actually, I think I do. The large deductible policies under Obamacare will still cost more than they should because of mandated coverages that, in the past, people could choose no to buy in their policies.

The government won't be using any actuarial sense and it will be a recipe for disaster. Because they are the govt, and not a business, they'll keep shoring it up with tax funds, but in the end it will degrade the quality of care in the country and further accelerate the deficit.

wygator don't you know mandated coverages are free... ;)

[dangolegators]

Actually, I think I do. The large deductible policies under Obamacare will still cost more than they should because of mandated coverages that, in the past, people could choose no to buy in their policies.

The government won't be using any actuarial sense and it will be a recipe for disaster. Because they are the govt, and not a business, they'll keep shoring it up with tax funds, but in the end it will degrade the quality of care in the country and further accelerate the deficit.

Yes, we know you think Obamacare is going to be bad. The question is, what would you do instead?

[dangolegators]

That has nothing to do with this thread.

Go research healthcare threads I have been in on if you want to know. To make it simple...

Less government involvement.

HSA's
Less mandated coverage (real insurance)
Sell across state lines
Allow my small business to group with other businesses in our trade
PA/NP clinics for the small stuff
Etc

Ironically you just ignore what this thread is about and my solution. Are you worried about someone's feelings being hurt if they are asked to give something back for making the decision to create a life?

Um, Wygator brought up Obamacare in this thread. If you have an issue about the direction this thread has turned, address it to him.

So your solution to a very complicated issue is:

HSA's
Less mandated coverage (real insurance)
Sell across state lines
Allow my small business to group with other businesses in our trade
PA/NP clinics for the small stuff
Etc

Five very vague items plus 'etc'. Not much of a solution there.

[QGator2414]

Yes, we know you think Obamacare is going to be bad. The question is, what would you do instead?

:roll:

Care to address what this thread is about?

If obamacare put in stipulations to help educate about responsibility when you ask others to pay for decisions you make (create a child) then I would support that part of it.

So ontop of what I mentioned earlier I would add the community service into the requirement to receive Medicaid for the birth ofa child. Hey some may actually go to family rather than government first in that scenario for help...

[QGator2414]

Um, Wygator brought up Obamacare in this thread. If you have an issue about the direction this thread has turned, address it to him.

So your solution to a very complicated issue is:

HSA's
Less mandated coverage (real insurance)
Sell across state lines
Allow my small business to group with other businesses in our trade
PA/NP clinics for the small stuff
Etc

Five very vague items plus 'etc'. Not much of a solution there.

Like clockwork...avoid the thread and question.

Healthcare has many issues including the one this thread is about.

Since you seem to need direction...

What is your solution to Medicaid births? just keep throwing money at it? Or actually do something to help solve it?

[QGator2414]

I love how I write "to make it simple" in addressing an umbrella issue.

And dangolegators continues to divert with trying to discuss the umbrella issue "healthcare" with it is "complicated". NO DUH IT IS COMPLICATED!

And government is the primary reason it is so complicated with the mandates and regulations!

[QGator2414]

So besides the 1% or so of cases where the mother and father of a child had the resources but had an obstacle thrown at them after conceiving a child (many of these rare scenarios probably have family support) to where they needed help paying for their pregnancy...

Why should the government pay for irresponsible decisions with no controls to help educate about the responsibility of creating a life?

This "healthcare" burden put in the taxpayer is avoidable the vast majority of the time if responsible decisions are made....

[rivergator]

So besides the 1% or so of cases where the mother and father of a child had the resources but had an obstacle thrown at them after conceiving a child (many of these rare scenarios probably have family support) to where they needed help paying for their pregnancy...

Why should the government pay for irresponsible decisions with no controls to help educate about the responsibility of creating a life?

This "healthcare" burden put in the taxpayer is avoidable the vast majority of the time if responsible decisions are made....

are you in favor of more federally funded education?

[QGator2414]

are you in favor of more federally funded education?

No I am in favor of teaching through requiring people to give back. It will cost less and as people begin to understand the responsibility we will see more people turn to their family before the taxpayer and begin to make better decisions.

Why does the left (not meant to be offensive river but I think I am fair in assessing you are on the left) assume education must take more money?

[rivergator]

No I am in favor of teaching through requiring people to give back. It will cost less and as people begin to understand the responsibility we will see more people turn to their family before the taxpayer and begin to make better decisions.

Why does the left (not meant to be offensive river but I think I am fair in assessing you are on the left) assume education must take more money?

I am most definitely on the left on most things.
But you aren't going to have a supervised program of community service, particularly one that involves education, without spending any money.

[tegator80]

Any system (medical, corporate) that allows risky behavior without any type of penalties to the persons doing that behavior invites moral hazard. That includes the ambitious as well as the perpetually stupid. History says so. But since there are increasingly more perpetually stupid or disconnected/preoccupied people out there, I presume that the ambitious are prepared to take advantage of the situation. Welcome to the New World Order.

[QGator2414]

I am most definitely on the left on most things.
But you aren't going to have a supervised program of community service, particularly one that involves education, without spending any money.

River the education is providing the community service or being required to give back for receiving help in a time of need. We don't need instructors...

The cost savings as people stop being irresponsible will outweigh a simple oversight which really only needs to be the county or municipality signing off on service time...

[NJG8tor]

There has been talk of doing away with labor and delivery in Ocala at MRMC and since we just had our third child there (great experiences) I decided to look up the percent of births in Marion County that are paid by Medicaid.

67.5%

http://www.floridacharts.com/charts/DataViewer/BirthViewer/BirthViewer.aspx?cid=595

This is more than a problem...

We really need to start requiring the mother and father or their families to provide community service by the child's first birthday (100 hoursish each) and begin to teach responsibility while helping people.

How do we require them? What do we do to them if they refuse to comply? The community service will be viewed as a punishment for people who are unable to afford the cost of a safe delivery, and there is no way it will ever be permited.

But don't worry, just spend 40K per year for their education and it we will actually come out ahead in the long term and if we don't it will be due to some kind of structural inequality that is yet to be fixed. LOL.

I'm afraid by the time we ever get serious about addressing this problem it will be far too late to do anything about it, if it is not already. And you can thank politicians on both sides of the isle for allowing this BS to get out of control.

[QGator2414]

How do we require them? What do we do to them if they refuse to comply? The community service will be viewed as a punishment for people who are unable to afford the cost of a safe delivery, and there is no way it will ever be permited.

But don't worry, just spend 40K per year for their education and it we will actually come out ahead in the long term and if we don't it will be due to some kind of structural inequality that is yet to be fixed. LOL.

I'm afraid by the time we ever get serious about addressing this problem it will be far too late to do anything about it, if it is not already. And you can thank politicians on both sides of the isle for allowing this BS to get out of control.

I agree with a lot of this though I am not sure what the $40K in education is suppose to mean.

Removing the child tax credit (should be done anways but as you pointed out both parties have allowed this nonsense to get out of control) would be one thing.

While I am for a flat tax with no deductions or the fair tax we know the child tax credit is not going anywhere...sadly

[neisgator]

Yes, we know you think Obamacare bad. What would you do in it's place?

I would start with doing nothing. As Obamacare is worse than the status quo.

[Matthanuf06]

The solution to the entitlement gluttony problem is actually quite simple. Remove incentives and add consequences. We can debate how we achieve that, but the reality is that it really doesn't matter. If we make it less attractive to suck the government boob then less people will do so.

Community service is a great idea. The question was posed what if they don't comply? Then cut off the sucking.

[QGator2414]

The solution to the entitlement gluttony problem is actually quite simple. Remove incentives and add consequences. We can debate how we achieve that, but the reality is that it really doesn't matter. If we make it less attractive to suck the government boob then less people will do so.

Community service is a great idea. The question was posed what if they don't comply? Then cut off the sucking.

+1

wrt this specific issue it could be done by simpliy filing a single sheet of paper signed by a reputable charity or local government organization saying the service was completed in order to receive your redistribution child tax credit for example...

[neisgator]

The solution to the entitlement gluttony problem is actually quite simple. Remove incentives and add consequences. We can debate how we achieve that, but the reality is that it really doesn't matter. If we make it less attractive to suck the government boob then less people will do so.

Community service is a great idea. The question was posed what if they don't comply? Then cut off the sucking.

Exactly. This crap really isn't too difficult.