Some of you do know we only played 6 guys right?

[Noahtogo24]

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

[oragator1]

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

Once they leave Gainesville they are an average team. We have played 4 decent teams on the road(I count KSU) and lost them all, in all kinds of ways - choking away a big lead, choking away a last minute lead, getting dominated, and now whatever to tonight was. Until they show they can do more than pound teams in Gainesville the frustration is warranted, short handed or not. Find a way in a tossup game, just once.

[GatorPlanet]

We played eight.

[HALLGATOR]

We legitimately only had 6 proven guys tonight and we sorely missed WY and MF II

[Gator40]

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

We lost these same kind of close games on the road before Will and Frazier went down. The team is mentally weak on the road with or without them. Facts back it up.

[sec1]

i agree with gator1

[gatorev12]

...which is why many of us have championed the "radical" idea of rotating in guys like Braxton, Graham, and Walker for short 1-2 minute spurts alongside 4 regular starters when our team is 20-30 points ahead midway through the second half in order for those guys to gain experience and so that they wouldn't be looking like like does wandering out into the woods for the first time when in a pressure game like this.

I realize that with Braxton, Walker, and Graham, there's a significant drop-off in terms of court awareness and experience. Don't think anyone's advocated throwing them all in together at the 12 minute mark when up by 25...just rotating each in individually for small stretches. If they screw up, yank them real quick or give the spot to the next guy.

It rests our starters (which would have been invaluable tonight and later in the season when fatigue hits in) and gives us more than just 6 players when we're short-handed.

[sec1]

mentally weak n soft on the road

[channingcrowderhungry]

Without Yeguete we are 4-3. There you go.

[GatorsGators]

Teams who struggle on the road don't necessarily struggle on neutral courts.

[Gator40]

Without Yeguete we are 4-3. There you go.

Ehh. Everyone knew our conference schedule was backloaded. At one point, we had played only one team in the top half of conference deep into the schedule. We've hit that part and combine that with hurt players and being bad on the road regardless, you get multiple L's.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

...which is why many of us have championed the "radical" idea of rotating in guys like Braxton, Graham, and Walker for short 1-2 minute spurts alongside 4 regular starters when our team is 20-30 points ahead midway through the second half in order for those guys to gain experience and so that they wouldn't be looking like like does wandering out into the woods for the first time when in a pressure game like this.

I realize that with Braxton, Walker, and Graham, there's a significant drop-off in terms of court awareness and experience. Don't think anyone's advocated throwing them all in together at the 12 minute mark when up by 25...just rotating each in individually for small stretches. If they screw up, yank them real quick or give the spot to the next guy.

It rests our starters (which would have been invaluable tonight and later in the season when fatigue hits in) and gives us more than just 6 players when we're short-handed.

Did you happen to catch Braxton or walker in the game with the starters – there is a reason those guys don't play with the starters - they are not ready to play with the starters

[BengermanV]

Meh. This team isn't very good. They aren't bad, they just aren't very good either.

[HALLGATOR]

We lost these same kind of close games on the road before Will and Frazier went down. The team is mentally weak on the road with or without them. Facts back it up.

Which games on the road did we lose with a full compliment of players?

[oragator1]

We legitimately only had 6 proven guys tonight and we sorely missed WY and MF II

I respect you Hall but it's a different excuse around here every time we play someone on the road who isn't horrible. Arizona we "should have won just a bad last minute", mizzou it was the refs and bad shot selection, tonight we were short handed...at some point the reality should be clear. We aren't a tough team at this point in the season, we haven't beaten anyone who has punched us in the mouth, we have had 4 games decided by less than 10 points and lost them all. The 4 highest rpi teams we have played away from home we have lost. We are 7-5 on the road with most of those games coming against the 8th rated conference in the SEC, and now in league we are what, 4-3 away without a quality road win or neutral win all year? MTSU is our best win away from Gainesville I think.

[Noahtogo24]

Teams who struggle on the road don't necessarily struggle on neutral courts.


This.

Again, it seems reasonable to mefor some to question Donovan about not playing the freshmen more minutes so the rotation could expand from 8 to possibly 10 or 11. And yes the Gators are far from road warrriors this season. It's just killing us since besides from the Hogs game, we were a couple of easy mistakes from each game from winning.

[HALLGATOR]

I respect you Hall but it's a different excuse around here every time we play someone on the road who isn't horrible. Arizona we "should have won just a bad last minute", mizzou it was the refs and bad shot selection, tonight we were short handed...at some point the reality should be clear. We aren't a tough team at this point in the season, we haven't beaten anyone who has punched us in the mouth, we have had 4 games decided by less than 10 points and lost them all. The 4 highest rpi teams we have played away from home we have lost. We are 7-5 on the road with most of those games coming against the 8th rated conference in the SEC, and now in league we are what, 4-3 away without a quality road win or neutral win all year? MTSU is our best win away from Gainesville I think.

An excuse is different from reasons and in this case there is no doubt that the loss of our two players was a big blow to us. Doesn't mean we couldn't have won more games with better play but you have to take those missing players into consideration when evaluating the losses.

[gatorcwboyfan]

Once they leave Gainesville they are an average team. We have played 4 decent teams on the road(I count KSU) and lost them all, in all kinds of ways - choking away a big lead, choking away a last minute lead, getting dominated, and now whatever to tonight was. Until they show they can do more than pound teams in Gainesville the frustration is warranted, short handed or not. Find a way in a tossup game, just once.

+100

[gator2109]

Teams who struggle on the road don't necessarily struggle on neutral courts.

This.

Close road losses, especially with the squad we have due to injuries, means little to none in the NCAA tournament. Past champions prove that. I will reserve any general judgement of this team until the SEC tourney as we should have our full compliment of players and won't have to worry about an unranked team making their season by beating us in their house.

[Jaggator]

UT had one day to practice for Florida after going 4 OT's against Texas A&M Saturday night. They flew back on Sunday and had only yesterday to prepare for Florida. You would think UT would have had some fatigue but they looked much fresher and had stronger legs than Florida. They were quicker to rebounds and were mentally and physically a much tougher team.

[sec1]

good point jaggator

[tilly]

If we were healthy, we beat Mizzou and UT...at least.

And... winning on a neutral court when healthy, is easier than on a hostile court while banged up.

[mbgator]

The freshman that we needed to step up were clearly not in there to be difference makers tonight. They were just pawns that are not yet productive.

[oragator1]

An excuse is different from reasons and in this case there is no doubt that the loss of our two players was a big blow to us. Doesn't mean we couldn't have won more games with better play but you have to take those missing players into consideration when evaluating the losses.

Look at the stats tonight from our seniors - they combined to shoot 9-31 with 3 total assists and 4 turnovers. It's one thing if the "depth" guys were out of their element but that wasn't the problem tonight. Wilbekin was our leading rebounder tonight.
I will leave it at that.

[HALLGATOR]

Look at the stats tonight from our seniors - they combined to shoot 9-31 with 3 total assists and 4 turnovers. It's one thing if the "depth" guys were out of their element but that wasn't the problem tonight. Wilbekin was our leading rebounder tonight.
I will leave it at that.

I'm not sure what your point is. I conceded the guys could have played better but if you don't want to take into consideration we limped into Knoxville then I don't know what to say.

[gatorfan228]

This.

Close road losses, especially with the squad we have due to injuries, means little to none in the NCAA tournament. Past champions prove that. I will reserve any general judgement of this team until the SEC tourney as we should have our full compliment of players and won't have to worry about an unranked team making their season by beating us in their house.

Id be surprised if you could find me one national champion in the past 10-15 years who doesnt have one semi-good road win... Not only does this team not have one good road win, it hasnt won a close game its been in, do you realize that? IMO, this team needs a good close win or two to know that, come tourney time, they have been there before and have some momentum. While an NCAA tourney game isnt a road game per se, it is much more of a road game atmosphere than a home game atmosphere, especially depending on the region, and having a healthy team that has a good road win vs Kentucky would go a long way.

[malscott]

after reading some compelling arguments, I concur. Gators kind of blow on the road. Maybe they can improve? I hope so...Go Gators.

[oragator1]

I'm not sure what your point is. I conceded the guys could have played better but if you don't want to take into consideration we limped into Knoxville then I don't know what to say.

My point is that we didn't lose tonight because of the replacements...it's not like Prather was abused or BO turned it over a bunch of times, we lost for the same reason we have lost all of our road games, our quality players who should step up, especially when we face adversity, didn't. That's why the shorthanded thing is an excuse to me tonight and why I posted their stats. Might we have won with WY MF? Maybe, maybe not. But that still wouldn't change the underlying problem - we have no leadership or mental toughness when we need it most, and road games are the ultimate test for that.

But I am done venting, time for bed :)

[whitelakegator]

Not ready to give up on these guys but they are soft outside of the o-dome.

And they haven't responded to getting punched in the mouth. It should scare the heck out of us that we can't win a close game. The NC2A's are all about close games.

Until they prove they can do it, not sold.

Does anyone think we are going 6-0 in the tourney and winning by 20+ every game?

[gtr2x]

UT had one day to practice for Florida after going 4 OT's against Texas A&M Saturday night. They flew back on Sunday and had only yesterday to prepare for Florida. You would think UT would have had some fatigue but they looked much fresher and had stronger legs than Florida. They were quicker to rebounds and were mentally and physically a much tougher team.

Home team is most always energized. Not surprised, just got to make shots which didn't happen.

[GatorAvatar]

Guys, don't jump off the ledge. This team can't win on the road. We are a #10 ranked team at best. I called this loss a while ago.

[gatorev12]

Did you happen to catch Braxton or walker in the game with the starters – there is a reason those guys don't play with the starters - they are not ready to play with the starters

I did notice Braxton and Walker in the game and making mistakes. Playing like guys who'd never been on the road or playing real minutes in a competitive game...

..because: gasp! This is their first time playing real minutes in a competitive game.

My point is that if Donovan wants to have a bench, he needs to develop one. Throwing inexperienced freshman into a pressure-cooker game when they've barely featured isn't the way to do it. Slowly getting them adapted to the game--letting them make mistakes when they aren't as costly to the team, using those mistakes to point out areas where they need to improve, etc.

I know the inevitable reply will be "Donovan knows how to develop talent!!! Look at how many players are in the NBA."

True...he's a heck of a coach and I'm not doubting that. But no coach is perfect and this happens to be a particular weakness of his this season. Many people were clamoring for the freshman to get minutes in our blowouts--with most understanding that it's a long season and it could only help us in the long-term.

I'd much rather have won the South Carolina, Auburn, LSU, Wisconsin, etc games by 20 points instead of 25 and have our freshman get better adapted to the college game so that they could be in a position to contribute on a night like tonight when they were needed, but completely unprepared to do so.

[Noahtogo24]

To me the biggest worry right now is the inconsistency from KB lately.

Like I said in an other thread, when fully healthy should we go big at the end of games now with this lineup:

Scotty
Rosario
Willy Y
Murphy
Young

[CoachSayre]

I did notice Braxton and Walker in the game and making mistakes. Playing like guys who'd never been on the road or playing real minutes in a competitive game...

..because: gasp! This is their first time playing real minutes in a competitive game.

My point is that if Donovan wants to have a bench, he needs to develop one. Throwing inexperienced freshman into a pressure-cooker game when they've barely featured isn't the way to do it. Slowly getting them adapted to the game--letting them make mistakes when they aren't as costly to the team, using those mistakes to point out areas where they need to improve, etc.

I know the inevitable reply will be "Donovan knows how to develop talent!!! Look at how many players are in the NBA."

True...he's a heck of a coach and I'm not doubting that. But no coach is perfect and this happens to be a particular weakness of his this season. Many people were clamoring for the freshman to get minutes in our blowouts--with most understanding that it's a long season and it could only help us in the long-term.

I'd much rather have won the South Carolina, Auburn, LSU, Wisconsin, etc games by 20 points instead of 25 and have our freshman get better adapted to the college game so that they could be in a position to contribute on a night like tonight when they were needed, but completely unprepared to do so.

They aren't ready to play. Period. Throwing in during a 20 point blowout doesn't get them ready for a UT environment when our backs are against the wall. We should have helped them more in the off season to get ready to play. They are working hard and will be ready next year.

[gatorev12]

They aren't ready to play. Period. Throwing in during a 20 point blowout doesn't get them ready for a UT environment when our backs are against the wall. We should have helped them more in the off season to get ready to play. They are working hard and will be ready next year.

Teams don't mail it in when there's still 8-10 minutes to play, regardless if they're down by 20 or 30 minutes to play...and especially not when they see a "weak link" coming on. To the contrary, they'll go right at the newbie and its up to them to cope, adapt, and adjust.

Game minutes when the game is still competitive (re: the other team is still trying to fight back to either get back in the game or keep the score respectable) are the best way to develop any player. Had we tried it earlier in the season, perhaps we actually have another player we can rely on to not screw up for a 2 minute stretch later on in the season when we may or may not need them.

[CoachSayre]

Teams don't mail it in when there's still 8-10 minutes to play, regardless if they're down by 20 or 30 minutes to play...and especially not when they see a "weak link" coming on. To the contrary, they'll go right at the newbie and its up to them to cope, adapt, and adjust.

Game minutes when the game is still competitive (re: the other team is still trying to fight back to either get back in the game or keep the score respectable) are the best way to develop any player. Had we tried it earlier in the season, perhaps we actually have another player we can rely on to not screw up for a 2 minute stretch later on in the season when we may or may not need them.

Sorry we aren't going to put them in at the 8-10 minute mark in the second half when we have things that we need to work on with the top 8.

[sleeze]

Simply put,,,,If we are healthy then we are a final 4 team....right now with the injuries we are barely cracking the top 10 in the country. So i think we are in good shape come tourny time.

[sleeze]

If KB gets out of his slump then we are a top 5 team now.

[CoachSayre]

Simply put,,,,If we are healthy then we are a final 4 team....right now with the injuries we are barely cracking the top 10 in the country. So i think we are in good shape come tourny time.

Not directed at you but is top 10-12 good enough for now with what we are going through?

[sleeze]

Not directed at you but is top 10-12 good enough for now with what we are going through?

ohh yes,,,,w/ our injuries that is definitely good enough.

And on top of that...our first 5 or 6 our playing tired and big minutes in the last few games.

[CoachSayre]

ohh yes,,,,w/ our injuries that is definitely good enough.

And on top of that...our first 5 or 6 our playing tired and big minutes in the last few games.

I agree especially since some of them are banged up and hitting walls. Rest tomorrow will help.

[gatorev12]

Sorry we aren't going to put them in at the 8-10 minute mark in the second half when we have things that we need to work on with the top 8.

Sorry, I don't think you've been paying too much attention to our basketball team this season if you think we've had a healthy top 8 the entire year.

[CoachSayre]

Sorry, I don't think you've been paying too much attention to our basketball team this season if you think we've had a healthy top 8 the entire year.

LOL I haven't been. LOL

But anyway we've had0 some things to work out and we should have played the frosh more with a minute or two to go.

[1984Gator]

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

This is regressing. The loss to AZ was a complete gift, bad ball handling, inbounding and stupidity. It's OK to do that once or maybe twice as a learning experience but we keep repeating these mistakes. Our talent has allowed us to play very sloppy ball and still blow out teams but it will add up to an early exit from the tourney if we don't learn from thes emistakes.

[CAGator93]

I was wondering why we pressed early in the game considering we had a depleted roster. I thought it would wear us out - and possibly did.

[gatorev12]

LOL I haven't been. LOL

But anyway we've had0 some things to work out and we should have played the frosh more with a minute or two to go.

Apparently not if you're somehow thinking we've been injury-free this entire year and have rotated 8 players consistently when the reality is that most all our starters and rotation players have missed time at various points of the year--some missing multiple games.

Instead of taking advantage of opportunities to develop a deeper bench (and rest the starters--which might have come in handy on a night like tonight when we needed our primary 6 fresher), we've simply given the starters more minutes in blowout victories that weren't really close from the 5 minute mark of the first half onwards. Which is nice if we're wanting blowouts in every game...but doesn't exactly help us later on in the season when minor injuries start mounting and fatigue kicks in.

There are precious few drawbacks to rotating in bench players for 1-2 minute stretches in games. No one is saying to give them starters' minutes or saying that Braxton, Graham, or Walker are ready to contribute significant production at this current time. It's patently obvious they aren't ready. That's why you use them in controlled situations where them making a mistake or two isn't going to kill us...with the primary benefits of resting your key players for other battles--and the secondary benefit in perhaps developing a deeper bench/rotation for later on in the season.

When we were winning every game by 20+, it's easy to ignore the minutes being logged by the starters. Not so easy now when they're fatigued and we've dropped a few we should have won had we been fresher.

[regurgigator]

Meh. This team isn't very good. They aren't bad, they just aren't very good either.

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

[GatorAvatar]

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

I take the latter.

[gregthegator]

...which is why many of us have championed the "radical" idea of rotating in guys like Braxton, Graham, and Walker for short 1-2 minute spurts alongside 4 regular starters when our team is 20-30 points ahead midway through the second half in order for those guys to gain experience and so that they wouldn't be looking like like does wandering out into the woods for the first time when in a pressure game like this.

I realize that with Braxton, Walker, and Graham, there's a significant drop-off in terms of court awareness and experience. Don't think anyone's advocated throwing them all in together at the 12 minute mark when up by 25...just rotating each in individually for small stretches. If they screw up, yank them real quick or give the spot to the next guy.

It rests our starters (which would have been invaluable tonight and later in the season when fatigue hits in) and gives us more than just 6 players when we're short-handed.

well stated and agreed...but Coach D. just won't do it...they get their min. if up by 30 w/less than 91 secs. to go

[SmootyGator]

Teams don't mail it in when there's still 8-10 minutes to play, regardless if they're down by 20 or 30 minutes to play...and especially not when they see a "weak link" coming on. To the contrary, they'll go right at the newbie and its up to them to cope, adapt, and adjust.

Game minutes when the game is still competitive (re: the other team is still trying to fight back to either get back in the game or keep the score respectable) are the best way to develop any player. Had we tried it earlier in the season, perhaps we actually have another player we can rely on to not screw up for a 2 minute stretch later on in the season when we may or may not need them.

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

[SmootyGator]

When we were winning every game by 20+, it's easy to ignore the minutes being logged by the starters. Not so easy now when they're fatigued and we've dropped a few we should have won had we been fresher.

Same as my above post. We have to keep the starters in because we can't afford to let the lead get to within 10. Once it hits 10 it is considered a close game and we will definitely lose. The coaches know this because they read this website.

[SJB612]

The thing that we love about Billy Ball is also the thing that makes winning close games a problem, especially on the road. We have 5 guys of relatively equal importance on the floor, who have similar scoring averages and share the ball at will. It makes for beautiful basketball to watch when it is working correctly. The problem is, by design, there are no stars, no one who can put the team on their shoulders, drop 27 points in one night, dominate a game, and carry you to victory on the road in a tough atmosphere against a quality opponent. There is no one who demands the ball at the end of the game and actually has the stones to make the clutch shot. Just a bunch of selfless guys hoping someone else will make the shot, with the exception of KB, who can go 0 for 10 and still feel like he should take the last shot no matter what, because for some strange reason he has been given the green light to do that since he stepped on campus. When was the last time we had a dominant player who could take over games like that on a consistent basis? I can't think of one. Maybe Noah because of his work on both ends of the floor during the '06 tournament. I still prefer Billy Ball nonetheless, and wouldn't want it any other way, because eventually, stars fade, or have bad nights, and then where are you?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Was looking at the box score ... where on earth did Murphy get 6 boards and 7 points? I swear I didn't see one of those.

[Distant Gator]

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

We were up by 40 vs SC with 15 to go. (55-15.)
Up 27 vs UGA with 12 to go at home.
Up 22 vs Mizzou with 7 to go.
Up 28 vs Auburn with 17 to go.

That game vs Auburn really supports Rev's point. Get these young guys some minutes, rest the starters and still win the game.

And perhaps we would have been fresher at Mizzou if our starters had played fewer minutes in the blowout at Auburn. Remember we were up 49-36 at Mizzou with 11 to go at Mizzou but got outscored 27-11 in the final 11. Based on that stat looks like we got worn down- just like last night.

To me it's a win/win/win/win.

Win-play freshman and get them experience in blowouts.
Win- rest starters and reduce their minutes in blowouts.
Win- still win these blowouts. Newsflash- SC isn't coming back from 40 down if we rotate in these freshman for 2 minutes a turn.
Win- our starters are fresher for the other games which gives us a better chance to beat Mizzou and Tennessee. We probably beat Mizzou if we were fresher. Perhaps UT too (did you notice how many open 3's we missed?)

Makes sense to me.

[gator2109]

Was looking at the box score ... where on earth did Murphy get 6 boards and 7 points? I swear I didn't see one of those.

He had a couple nice post moves as well as boards and put backs - we did pretty well with him at the 5 when Young was sitting. His multiple bricked jump shots and 3PT shots overshadowed this and really killed us though.

[SmootyGator]

We were up by 40 vs SC with 15 to go. (55-15.)
Up 27 vs UGA with 12 to go at home.
Up 22 vs Mizzou with 7 to go.
Up 28 vs Auburn with 17 to go.

That game vs Auburn really supports Rev's point. Get these young guys some minutes, rest the starters and still win the game.

And perhaps we would have been fresher at Mizzou if our starters had played fewer minutes in the blowout at Auburn. Remember we were up 49-36 at Mizzou with 11 to go at Mizzou but got outscored 27-11 in the final 11. Based on that stat looks like we got worn down- just like last night.

To me it's a win/win/win/win.

Win-play freshman and get them experience in blowouts.
Win- rest starters and reduce their minutes in blowouts.
Win- still win these blowouts. Newsflash- SC isn't coming back from 40 down if we rotate in these freshman for 2 minutes a turn.
Win- our starters are fresher for the other games which gives us a better chance to beat Mizzou and Tennessee. We probably beat Mizzou if we were fresher. Perhaps UT too (did you notice how many open 3's we missed?)

Makes sense to me.

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I really don't think that getting our Freshman a few minutes playing in those four games would have had much impact on how good they would have played in last night's game. These guys practice countless hours outside of games. The coaches watch all of these practices and they just don't think these guys have what it takes to be in the rotation. These guys have been playing basketball for their whole lives. They have spent THOUSANDS of hours practicing and playing basketball. If you think that them getting 30 minutes of game time at the end of 4 blowout games is somehow going to magically make them ready to play at an elite level, I've got news for you. (The preceding wasn't necessarily directed at you, Distant Gator)

I'm sure playing them would have helped our starters get *some* rest. I just don't think it is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I think our fatigue came from having only 6 of our starting 8 available and having to play extra minutes last night, not because they played an extra 6-8 minutes of garbage time two days prior. Maybe I'm wrong... who knows...

All that being said, CoachSayre in this thread (or another) also said that we still need to get our starting 8 some work, and that's why we kept them in. Doesn't also seem obvious that a team that can't close out games should be working on getting better at the end of games? People call our team soft. Shouldn't we be getting our starters as much playing time as possible to harden them up?

[ArtVandelay]

If we were healthy, we beat Mizzou and UT...at least.

And... winning on a neutral court when healthy, is easier than on a hostile court while banged up.

That is probably true, but there is no reason that we shouldn't have beaten them both without being healthy. That is what I am disappointed about.

Even with 6, we are a better team and should have won the game.

I still think we are a Final Four team.

[luciaboy]

bd has really not helped build depth by keeping the starters in until 1-2 minutes left in the game with 20-30 point leads

[jms]

I'm beginning to question their mental toughness, didn't win a difficult road game did we? Maybe Texas A M
I'm a believer that the neutral site NCAA will be different. We will see how they react in SEC tourney

[tommyuf21]

That is probably true, but there is no reason that we shouldn't have beaten them both without being healthy. That is what I am disappointed about.

Even with 6, we are a better team and should have won the game.

I still think we are a Final Four team.

We should have beaten them last night, even short handed. They are team that is still 3 games behind us in the standings, even after beating us last night. They will not make the NCAA tournament, unless they win the SEC tourney, which will not happen.

Two of our players that are 12ppg scorers didn't come close to that last night and without Frazier, we couldn't make up for their short fall.

Fully healthy, we could sneak in the final four if we catch some breaks. This team is not a juggernaut though and will need help. We don't have the low post depth to make it there in most years, but this year is special in that few teams can take advantage of that weakness.

[GatorJeff]

I'm beginning to question their mental toughness, didn't win a difficult road game did we? Maybe Texas A M
I'm a believer that the neutral site NCAA will be different. We will see how they react in SEC tourney

It is far easier to beat good teams at neutral sites with neutral crowds and neutral officials than to beat average SEC teams on the road. Our '06 national champs were 4-4 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament, and our '07 national champs were 5-3 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament. That tells you about all you need to know. I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

[ArtVandelay]

I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

Why does any negative comment have to be "crying"?

We should expect to win every game. Doesn't mean that we will.

Also, there is a difference between a game that you can see yourself losing (before it is played) and then analyzing it afterwards and thinking that you should have won.

[SmootyGator]

bd has really not helped build depth by keeping the starters in until 1-2 minutes left in the game with 20-30 point leads

Seriously, how much better would our bench be by getting 30 minutes total of mop-up time?

[Distant Gator]

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I really don't think that getting our Freshman a few minutes playing in those four games would have had much impact on how good they would have played in last night's game. These guys practice countless hours outside of games. The coaches watch all of these practices and they just don't think these guys have what it takes to be in the rotation. These guys have been playing basketball for their whole lives. They have spent THOUSANDS of hours practicing and playing basketball. If you think that them getting 30 minutes of game time at the end of 4 blowout games is somehow going to magically make them ready to play at an elite level, I've got news for you. (The preceding wasn't necessarily directed at you, Distant Gator)

I'm sure playing them would have helped our starters get *some* rest. I just don't think it is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I think our fatigue came from having only 6 of our starting 8 available and having to play extra minutes last night, not because they played an extra 6-8 minutes of garbage time two days prior. Maybe I'm wrong... who knows...

All that being said, CoachSayre in this thread (or another) also said that we still need to get our starting 8 some work, and that's why we kept them in. Doesn't also seem obvious that a team that can't close out games should be working on getting better at the end of games? People call our team soft. Shouldn't we be getting our starters as much playing time as possible to harden them up?

I want to be clear- I'm no expert either. And you make some good points. My post started with facts but my conclusions are speculaton.

The following are my opinions for my speculation:

1) Re: young guys. They can practice all they want but there is nothing that compares to game experience. A few minutes of court time ramp up their learning.
2) There is very little downside to playing these guys in a blowout. We aren't losing to Auburn, USCe or UGA (at home) after being up 20+.
3) Game minutes take a toll on our starters. If a guy is fresher after playing 30 instead of 40 in a game, then wouldn't 24 be better than 30?

If these 3 reasons are valid, then they are a good argument for rotating a little more than we have been. They are the basis for my speculation but I'm the first to admit- it's just speculation from a message board fan.

[BengermanV]

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

I could see this team being special if it gets healthy, that's for sure. Right now, its not a great basketball team IMO.

[SmootyGator]

I want to be clear- I'm no expert either. And you make some good points. My post started with facts but my conclusions are speculaton.

The following are my opinions for my speculation:

1) Re: young guys. They can practice all they want but there is nothing that compares to game experience. A few minutes of court time ramp up their learning.
2) There is very little downside to playing these guys in a blowout. We aren't losing to Auburn, USCe or UGA (at home) after being up 20+.
3) Game minutes take a toll on our starters. If a guy is fresher after playing 30 instead of 40 in a game, then wouldn't 24 be better than 30?

If these 3 reasons are valid, then they are a good argument for rotating a little more than we have been. They are the basis for my speculation but I'm the first to admit- it's just speculation from a message board fan.

Well I'm an expert at speculation, so let me retort! :laugh:

1) I just disagree with you on this one. Sure, any minutes are going to help, but really, how much? The way I look at it is to look at Frazier. He certainly has gotten better as the season has progressed, and his in-game experience has certainly helped him. But if you look at how much better he got after all of the minutes he's played, and assumed that the other freshman would get better to the same ratio that they played real minutes, they would not be noticeably better. In other words, Frazier didn't get noticeably better after his first 30 minutes of game experience, so why would the other freshman?

2) I agree that there isn't much, if any of a downside, I just think there isn't really that much of an upside either. I would rather just get my starters as much practice as possible. That of course is just my expert speculation.

3) This one I really don't know the answer to. I'm sure there is an optimal amount of time that players should play, depending on the conditioning of the player. Play too little and you lose some of your stamina and conditioning. Play too much and you get wore out quicker in the next game (especially two days later). I would like to think that the staff knows more about this than me or you, and knows who can go those extra couple of minutes without it affecting them for the next game. In my expert speculation however, I wouldn't think that playing 35 minutes in lieu of only 30 minutes would have that much effect on anyone (maybe more on big men?). Keep in mind that these last 5 minutes are in garbage time too, so I doubt that players are going 100% whole time.

[SmootyGator]

I could see this team being special if it gets healthy, that's for sure. Right now, its not a great basketball team IMO.

Well of course! You take away two key members of any NCAA basketball team and they wouldn't great.

IMO, when we've had a healthy team, we've had a good team. When we've had troubles with injuries, etc., we've not been that good. I hope we have everyone healthy for the Bama game so everyone can see just how good we are! Something tells me that if everyone is back and getting a decent number of minutes that we'll win that game by 30.

[HALLGATOR]

In addition to the injuries we also lost another front court player at the beginning of the year which could have provided some much needed minutes. Thus our rotation would have been 9 players at full strength instead of 8.

[iam4uf]

Have we been at 100% for any of our losses? Even if we did have everyone, losing continuity with players being out did hurt UF. On top of the injuries, losing Larson's few minutes backing up Patric was big. People need to be less critical of this situation...

[sleeze]

I don't see why it would hurt to put in 1 or 2 freshman in w/ the regulars....with a 20 point lead.

I think doing it, you would have more to gain in the long run.

If the freshmen make a couple of mistakes just sub him back out...its not rocket science.

[socraticsilence]

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

[socraticsilence]

Sorry we aren't going to put them in at the 8-10 minute mark in the second half when we have things that we need to work on with the top 8.

When you're up 30 you're not going to teach your starters too much they aren't going to learn in practice since the opposition isn't exactly pushing them, your back ups on the other hand can get a feel for real play.

[gatordee]

In Billy I trust. He has a way of holding great teams back in order to get them gelling at just the right time. These injuries along with the losses may be a blessing in disguise.

[socraticsilence]

It is far easier to beat good teams at neutral sites with neutral crowds and neutral officials than to beat average SEC teams on the road. Our '06 national champs were 4-4 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament, and our '07 national champs were 5-3 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament. That tells you about all you need to know. I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

This team could possibly come together like the 06 team, that's true but I really wish people would quit using the 07 teams mid-year malaise as an excuse- that team basically coasted because they knew they could just turn it on in March and April, it was like watching an NBA team-- when they were pushed by what they viewed as a real threat they destroyed people even during the regular season see the OSU game.

[ovillegator]

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

Get your point and agree... but please NEVER use F$U as a comparison to the Gators in any way. Just creepy, IMHO.

[gatormann]

I agree there is a case to be made to play the three "other" freshmen more. What would it hurt if they had a few more minutes here or there in our blowout wins?

I also believe that it probably wouldn't make much difference. It is clear, Donovan either believes that these guys were not ready and had not earned additional minutes. There's nothing that we've seen of Ogbueze, Walker or Graham that would lead anyone to think otherwise.

Florida, does, however, need its bench to contribute. For this year, that bench consists of Frazier, Yugete and Prather. Hopefully, we will have them all back soon and the Gators can regroup and get back to playing its best basketball.

[regurgigator]

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

Simply not true.

Even if you disregard all the SEC teams that we've completely dismantled (which I think is a mistake), we also crushed some pretty good OOC teams prior to conference play.

The key is the awesome defense we've shown we're capable of when everyone is healthy. That defense feeds our offense as well IMO.

[bullish]

Tennessee played 10 players, when was the last time we did? I personally feel you get everyone to buy in by playing them a little, but Billy seems to tighen up the bench, seems like on the road especially. Maybe next year we will have the perfect scenario for Billy to play more guys, I hope.

[gatorev12]

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

You're assuming we'd lose every game that got to us being up 10 late in the game. Which is patently false. We beat Kentucky, MTSU, Ole Miss, and others when the score was around that number with under 10 minutes to go in the second half.

And nothing is stopping Donovan from yanking the freshman if they're making too many mistakes and a 20-25 point lead gets cut down to 10-15 in quick order.

But, really, I think you need to pay better attention to my post. I'm not calling for us to substitute our entire bench in there with 10 minutes left in the game. Rather, put in the freshman one by one (or, at most, two at a time) and rest a starter or two in those stretches.

4 of the 5 spots on the court will be occupied by our top 6-7 rotation...and if the score gets cut down quickly, it would stand to reason that the regulars are also screwing up too.

[gatorev12]

I agree there is a case to be made to play the three "other" freshmen more. What would it hurt if they had a few more minutes here or there in our blowout wins?

I also believe that it probably wouldn't make much difference. It is clear, Donovan either believes that these guys were not ready and had not earned additional minutes. There's nothing that we've seen of Ogbueze, Walker or Graham that would lead anyone to think otherwise.

Florida, does, however, need its bench to contribute. For this year, that bench consists of Frazier, Yugete and Prather. Hopefully, we will have them all back soon and the Gators can regroup and get back to playing its best basketball.

I don't think anyone is saying that Braxton, Walker, or Graham are ready right now--or that keeping them on the bench is denying our team production.

What we're saying is that our team has struggled with injuries and suspensions all year long and depth has been a pesky problem. Every team needs production from its bench--and this season, it's been very rare when all 3 of Frazier, Yeguete, and Prather were healthy and ready to play. As a result, our team has more often than not been entirely reliant on 6-7 players in a rotation...and over the course of a season, the heavy number of minutes on our starters add up--especially when you factor in the amount of miles in travel time our team has racked up.

DistantGator summed it up when he asked whether it was better to have our starters averaging 24-26 minutes per game and us blowing the team out by 15+ points...or our starters averaging 30-34 minutes per game and us blowing out a team by 25+ points.

Not only that, but playing in closer games DOES help a team overcome adversity, which is something we really haven't demonstrated this year.

[rtgator]

I respect you Hall but it's a different excuse around here every time we play someone on the road who isn't horrible. Arizona we "should have won just a bad last minute", mizzou it was the refs and bad shot selection, tonight we were short handed...at some point the reality should be clear. We aren't a tough team at this point in the season, we haven't beaten anyone who has punched us in the mouth, we have had 4 games decided by less than 10 points and lost them all. The 4 highest rpi teams we have played away from home we have lost. We are 7-5 on the road with most of those games coming against the 8th rated conference in the SEC, and now in league we are what, 4-3 away without a quality road win or neutral win all year? MTSU is our best win away from Gainesville I think.

What is Michigan's excuse for losing to winless (in the Big 10) Penn State?

What is Kansas' excuse for losing 3 games in a row?

What is Louisville's excuse for losing 3 games in a row?

Virtually all good teams have bad games a few times a year, usually on the road.

[dawny]

We have problems with players injuries, but really what great teams have we really beat this year,we needed to play some our young players earlier this year so this problem would not happen, when Frazier returns he needs to be the Man who takes the last shots.

[GatorAvatar]

With an expected loss at Rupp we will be #4

[lean_gator]

With an expected loss at Rupp we will be #4

How bout a ban bet?