My wife just voted in Italy today..

[mastoidbone]

The horror of horrors---she was obliged to show an identity card and a voter registration card----those extremist right wingers in the EU are suppressing voters!!!!
Racist bastards!!!
Extremists!!!
Fascists...


In fact, even in extremist Denmark my cousin had to show his ID----those Danes are really against democracy and rights!!!

[GatorFanCF]

They only did it because she's white. How many times did she vote?

[rivergator]

The horror of horrors---she was obliged to show an identity card and a voter registration card----those extremist right wingers in the EU are suppressing voters!!!!
Racist bastards!!!
Extremists!!!
Fascists...


In fact, even in extremist Denmark my cousin had to show his ID----those Danes are really against democracy and rights!!!

Italy issues national IDs to all citizens. Denmark does not require an ID to vote.

link (http://www.hlpronline.com/Vol3_2-SchafferWang_HLPR.pdf)

[JerseyGator01]

And? Was that a rebuttal?

[mastoidbone]

even those socialists in france are in on it----forcing citizens to prove their identity!!!
those french republican thugs!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_France

[gatormoe1]

Anyone that isn't for ID cards to vote is clearly for rigged elections.

[rivergator]

And? Was that a rebuttal?

You really don't understand? OK:
1. Yes, he was correct that Italy requires ID to vote. But it's a national ID that is given to every citizen.
2. No, he was wrong in claiming that Denmark requires an ID.
I hope that helps.

[PSGator66]

Not having an ID to vote is nothing more than promoting voter fraud plain and simple.

[Row6]

To river's point, the issue isn't the ID, it is that many do not have a photo ID required by some of the newer legislation, and not many would disagree with the requirement if it included a program to standardize and get ID's to all citizens. As it s the US - a point which apparently escapes the OP - the requirement results in the de facto disenfranchisement of large numbers of voters who are without driver's licenses or other ID, a group which tends to be old and poor and tends to vote a certain way found to be offensive to those passing these laws.

Oh, did I mention that there isn't a demonstrated problem with voter fraud that would be affected by ID laws? But if it makes some feel better, pass the laws but actively get out ID's to all citizens.

[ThePlayer]

Did she vote for Berlusconi?

I support his "girl in every hot tub" platform. :yes:

[wygator]

To river's point, the issue isn't the ID, it is that many do not have a photo ID required by some of the newer legislation, and not many would disagree with the requirement if it included a program to standardize and get ID's to all citizens. As it s the US - a point which apparently escapes the OP - the requirement results in the de facto disenfranchisement of large numbers of voters who are without driver's licenses or other ID, a group which tends to be old and poor and tends to vote a certain way found to be offensive to those passing these laws.

Oh, did I mention that there isn't a demonstrated problem with voter fraud that would be affected by ID laws? But if it makes some feel better, pass the laws but actively get out ID's to all citizens.

As far as I know, every state with a voter ID requirement makes a cheap or free ID available. If you aren't able to get over that low hurdle, you probably won't be making informed decisions in the voting booth anyway.

[JerseyGator01]

Yet another hear no evil, see no evil voter fraud thread on Too Hot. Please don't apply for an FBI or CIA job, libbies. Do the country a favor. Thanks.

[Row6]

As far as I know, every state with a voter ID requirement makes a cheap or free ID available. If you aren't able to get over that low hurdle, you probably won't be making informed decisions in the voting booth anyway.

Pro actively supply them to all citizens and we can all agree. Some people are too old, infirm, or poor to go hassle at the driver's license bureau all day. If the goal is ID'ing voters, instead of disenfranchising certain demographics, why don't we do it?

Literacy tests were outlawed 50+ years ago, so unless you are proposing reinstating them, your comment about informed decisions is irrelevant.

[rivergator]

Not having an ID to vote is nothing more than promoting voter fraud plain and simple.

and yet you guys still can't find much of it. why is that?

[wygator]

Pro actively supply them to all citizens and we can all agree. Some people are too old, infirm, or poor to go hassle at the driver's license bureau all day. If the goal is ID'ing voters, instead of disenfranchising certain demographics, why don't we do it?

Literacy tests were outlawed 50+ years ago, so unless you are proposing reinstating them, your comment about informed decisions is irrelevant.

I'm not in favor of literacy tests, if some simple ID and registration requirements are too great, so be it. Most of the old and infirm had ID's already. I'm not sure why being poor is a major impediment to getting the ID. I'm sure the local "get out the vote" people will give them a ride.

[JerseyGator01]

Weak excuse. There are rarely lines at most ID places in Jersey in the middle of the month. Next.

[Row6]

I'm not in favor of literacy tests, if some simple ID and registration requirements are too great, so be it. Most of the old and infirm had ID's already. I'm not sure why being poor is a major impediment to getting the ID. I'm sure the local "get out the vote" people will give them a ride.

Whether you know why or not is immaterial to the fact that it is an impediment to certain demographics, and one which those pushing these laws are motivated by, not the closing of some non-existent voter fraud scam.

[wygator]

Whether you know why or not is immaterial to the fact that it is an impediment to certain demographics, and one which those pushing these laws are motivated by, not the closing of some non-existent voter fraud scam.

I would suggest that there's no way for you to know that voter fraud is non-existent. Reasonable precautions and protections, such as identifying the voter, help to make sure that you are correct.

[Row6]

I would suggest that there's no way for you to know that voter fraud is non-existent. Reasonable precautions and protections, such as identifying the voter, help to make sure that you are correct.

Thanks for the suggestion but there is plenty of evidence that the type of fraud that the new ID laws would supposedly limit is virtually non-existent. There have been several studies, not to mention all the supposed examples brought to TH which had nothing to do with ID laws.

[ufhomerj31]

You don't need an ID to drive, why do you need one to vote.

[mastoidbone]

somehow the fascists who demanded an ID let her vote....those dirty ID demanding bastards of the EU.....rightist racists!!!

she voted for my favorite---Beppe Grillo...the comedian....anti-establishment candidate.

[QGator2414]

Just fascinating to watch people defend the idea voters should not have to produce an ID to vote...

[malscott]

Voter fraud is probably more of a problem then we think. Here in the US as well. I just became a dual citizen with Italy. I knew my paperwork went through when I received all of the candidates and documents for the Parliamentary elections in the mail. I don't even have my Italian Passport yet! Although, I am a dual citizen. I get my passport on two weeks. I became a dual citizen for two reasons: One: I was a candidate and could. (My mom was born before her parents were naturalized Americans) So, I did. Two: I did it for my daughter. She will always have that and it will either be a benefit or not. Maybe she'll do a semester abroad as a citizen of Italy-who knows? Having an ID card for voting would seem to make some sense.