Why the 'Meltdown'?

[gatorbogey]

why the panic after a loss? why the meltdown? why the 'woe'?

come on, now, we've got alot of data points to examine that should temper our responses. from the championship teams dropping games leading to the post-season. we panicked back then too.

last 2 years, the teams haven't been near as good at this stage of the season as this current team. come tourney time, though, we advanced to the elite eight. this team is better: yet we have several on the board almost to the point of throwing in the towel, it seems. i don't know if it's melodramatic or hyperbole.

anything can happen in the tourney - i hope we are all mature enough to agree about that. but one thing that we might do better on the boards is not get so giddy after a win and not get so l-o-w after a loss. what's astounding to me - and yeah i'm guilty of this reaction from time to time - is the spikes and valleys in the sentiments after a game - whether it's a big win and we predict we can compete in the nba [tongue in cheek hyperbole] or we'll make a first round exit in the ncaa's after a loss.

[lean_gator]

Its what we do and its pathetic

[jcp]

Spoiled fans.

Probably the same people that didn't watch the two seasons after our second national championship.

[g8rboy]

People love sensationalism. Being part of it is exciting for them

[gatormoe1]

Im more mad that we lost to a team were clearly better than and I wanted to win a close game. I think we are still a National championship type team come tourney time.

[ArtVandelay]

I think its okay depending on how you express it. We choked tonight. It was painful to watch. It was a bad loss (considering how the game was going) It's okay to say it and criticize the team. We are all praising them when they play well.

We will be fine. We are still Top 5 in the country and have as good a chance as any team to make the Final Four. Nothing wrong with letting out some frustration. Hopefully the team feels the same way.

[RealGatorFan]

Not a meltdown exactly. We had a 12 point lead twice in the half only to see Mizzou put it 5th gear at the 10 minute mark of each half. Yeah Mizzou is a good team, but we needed this road win not for a dumb #1 seed, but for self esteem. We need a road win against a good team for mental strength. We didn't get it and it's the 4th time too.

[Matthanuf06]

It's a combination of venting and analysis. This team, over the last few years, has had fatal flaws at the end of big games. You wouldn't be a real fan if you don't get frustrated by our choking MO.

[number1]

Especially considering the fact that 99.5% of the people on this board predicted losses at Arkansas and at Missouri before the SEC slate started. lol. Since we all obviously saw it coming anyway, why get mad when it actually happens? Remember it is called protect the home floor and steal a few on the road.

[WESGATORS]

Passion. I think folks are pissed because they saw this as a game within reach that slipped away. They are concerned over what this may imply regarding close games going forward. They are disappointed about the progress/struggle to obtain a #1 seed. It's natural for fans to be upset after a loss.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[Gator40]

Especially considering the fact that 99.5% of the people on this board predicted losses at Arkansas and at Missouri before the SEC slate started. lol. Since we all obviously saw it coming anyway, why get mad when it actually happens? Remember it is called protect the home floor and steal a few on the road.

We are 0-4 in "stealing" anything on the road.

[CASontag]

Yeah, I don't like these close loses that are within UF's grasp to win. Getting blow out by Arkansas, you just tip your hat to Arkansas and say good game. But to have a lead in the 2nd half and see it slip away... so frustrating :-\

[hgators]

Freaking spolied ingrates. 21-4 with many more W's to come.

[sec1]

its not a melt down ... everyone was stroking this team and my opinion is that this team is soft and will not go past the elite 8 , we are a good team but not close to a championship team

[TruGator]

They are concerned over what this may imply regarding close games going forward.

I'm not freaking out over this loss, but I agree with this.

[Dreamliner]

We are 0-4 in "stealing" anything on the road.

This is another one of those "games we needed"!

[108]

why, because its become a fckin trend the last 3 years that we lose big games this way

[CASontag]

Freaking spolied ingrates. 21-4 with many more W's to come.

Still didn't Boynton say Final 4 or bust? I want him to achieve his dream/goal (this year is his last chance). But if you can't execute down the stretch you are going to make it awfully difficult to reach those goals. Oh well, great season so far, but with back to back Elite 8's the bar (fairly or unfairly) has been raised.

[Angaza]

Just observing a pattern that may hurt us down the road. But yeah, the freakouts by our fans are nuts.

[FloridaxGators1]

I'm as cool as a cucumber. I can't wait till Saturday tho! Revenge will be sweet

[Noahtogo24]

Only 4 teams have made the elite eight the past two seasons. Two of them, UNC and Kentucky, may not make the tourney this season. We have it good here at Florida.

[number1]

We still have tough road games at Tennessee(who will be a tournament team) and Kentucky.

[number1]

So this should mean that we beat Arkansas by 40 on Saturday. lol

[tommyuf21]

It's a combination of venting and analysis. This team, over the last few years, has had fatal flaws at the end of big games. You wouldn't be a real fan if you don't get frustrated by our choking MO.

Those teams (and this one too) are far from perfectly constructed. We have flaws.

I could see the venting if this was the 2006-07 team or that UNLV super team.

Some people refuse to rationally analyze this team's strengths and weaknesses, hence the comparisons to the 04's. When we beat a bad team by 30, it doesn't mean we're a championship team. However, after Saturday, you would have thought that if all you read was the bragging that was going on from some people.

[bakaduin]

I don't think its a "meltdown" but the facts remain. We have played a fairly weak schedule because of the SEC being down.

We are 21-4 but have 0 quality road wins and only one win vs a top 25 team. We have one of the weakest resumes of a contender in NCAA history and tonights game was our last chance to get the quality road win. Now the chances of us getting a #1 seed are slim and getting a 2 is going to take us winning out in all likelihood based on our competition.

[gatordavisl]

The explanations here are 100x better than the accusations. This was a game that deserved a "meltdown" to a certain extent. And this coming from a big-time sunshine pumper. When it comes to close games, this team chokes on it. Period. They have not made a single indication that they will come up big in a close game, esp. away from home.

[Matthanuf06]

Only 4 teams have made the elite eight the past two seasons. Two of them, UNC and Kentucky, may not make the tourney this season. We have it good here at Florida.

So what? That doesn't mean we don't have a major flaw, which is our major choking at the end of close games.

You do realize that we can be happy and thrilled that we are as good as we are, yet worried and annoyed that our fatal flaws are holding us back.

[GatorEcon]

The data is speak of is largely from home. I'm worried my chance at UF during a natty are going down the tubes because of poor inside play and free throws amongst the inability to finish close games on the road. Our biggest weaknesses as a team are arguably the most important factors a team needs during March so its pretty understandable that people are taking tonight loss pretty hard, myself included. With that said I believe in Donovan and his ability to make the team learn from this. Add Yugete to the mix and March should still be interesting.

[Jaggator]

Passion. I think folks are pissed because they saw this as a game within reach that slipped away. They are concerned over what this may imply regarding close games going forward. They are disappointed about the progress/struggle to obtain a #1 seed. It's natural for fans to be upset after a loss.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

+ 1...And fans have every right to feel that way and express their feelings. You've got to let it out somewhere.

[nastyreptile]

Freaking spolied ingrates. 21-4 with many more W's to come.


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to be happy about a loss to a team we killed in the first game.....:huh:

[gtr2x]

Losing a close game to a team that you feel is inferior is always more gut wrenching than getting blown out imo. To me this was worse than losing to ARky where the team simply didn't show up.
That said Im ready to move on. The good thing about basketball is one game doesn't define a season, at least not at this point.

[BLING]

Meltdown after a loss, it's what fans do.

But furthermore, I think this team now officially has some real issues that are being exposed. We are basically batting 1.000 in terms of failing in tough environments and close games.

I think part of the aggravation is also that Florida have/had a #1 seed on the line, and it seems like every time this particular 2012-2013 team has it in their grasp, it slips away in an ugly and frustrating manner. And also while it's great to have OVER-achieved the last 2 years and be an elite 8 team, those two teams also had final 4's within their grasps that sort of slipped away in the last 2 minutes.

The *WAY* this team has closed out the only close opportunities it has had, leaves some real question marks about what happens the next time we get in a close game. Maybe UF blows out every team they face from here until the NCAA's, but in the 2nd round it comes down to the final minutes....this team has no recipe for success in the final minutes... so what happens? I'm worried that this might end up being an UNDER-achieveing team despite the run of blowouts we had early in SEC play. Got to figure out a way to score in the paint when the 3-point shot isn't falling.

[number1]

I don't think its a "meltdown" but the facts remain. We have played a fairly weak schedule because of the SEC being down.

We are 21-4 but have 0 quality road wins and only one win vs a top 25 team. We have one of the weakest resumes of a contender in NCAA history and tonights game was our last chance to get the quality road win. Now the chances of us getting a #1 seed are slim and getting a 2 is going to take us winning out in all likelihood based on our competition.

What's the big deal? We weren't a 1 or 2 last year and we made it to the Elite 8. It is all about matchups, not the seeding. A lot of times the 1 or 2 seed will end up with a very dangerous 2nd round matchup with a talented, but underachieving major team that is looking to prove itself at an 8-9 or 7-10 slot(like we were last year).

[Noahtogo24]

So what? That doesn't mean we don't have a major flaw, which is our major choking at the end of close games.

You do realize that we can be happy and thrilled that we are as good as we are, yet worried and annoyed that our fatal flaws are holding us back.


I do realize why some Gator fans are upset, since they feel like Florida is not playing to their ability. However, I do find it funny some are saying Florida has not shot for the NC after the loss tonight. Again, hopefully this helps with Coach Donovan drawing better players up at the end.

[lean_gator]

I don't think its a "meltdown" but the facts remain. We have played a fairly weak schedule because of the SEC being down.

We are 21-4 but have 0 quality road wins and only one win vs a top 25 team. We have one of the weakest resumes of a contender in NCAA history and tonights game was our last chance to get the quality road win. Now the chances of us getting a #1 seed are slim and getting a 2 is going to take us winning out in all likelihood based on our competition.

So

[BengermanV]

The Arkansas loss didn't worry me too much, and this one worries me even less. HOWEVER, I did warn people after the Arizona loss that this team was going to get it in their heads that they can't win at the end of games. The fact is, if a game comes down to the wire in the NCAA tournament, I don't like our chances. Not one bit.

I wanted a close game, and we got one. I just wanted the Gators to have this kind of opportunity to prove themselves, and for lack of a better term, they choked. Let's all hope someone else tests us in the near future.

[tommyuf21]

I don't think its a "meltdown" but the facts remain. We have played a fairly weak schedule because of the SEC being down.

We are 21-4 but have 0 quality road wins and only one win vs a top 25 team. We have one of the weakest resumes of a contender in NCAA history and tonights game was our last chance to get the quality road win. Now the chances of us getting a #1 seed are slim and getting a 2 is going to take us winning out in all likelihood based on our competition.

There are roughly 15 teams that could get hot in March-April and win it all. We are one of them.

It will come down to the luck of the draw. Who will be in our bracket? Who gets upset? Seeding is pretty much irrelevant, if you are 1-3. If Michigan State is in our region, unless they are upset, then we are unlikely to get to the Final Four. Conversely, if Duke or someone we match up well with is in our region, our chances improve tremendously.

If this year was a typical year, with two or three outstanding teams, then I wouldn't be picking us past the Elite 8. However, the lack of quality in the field gives everyone a good chance, including us.

[Matthanuf06]

What's the big deal? We weren't a 1 or 2 last year and we made it to the Elite 8. It is all about matchups, not the seeding. A lot of times the 1 or 2 seed will end up with a very dangerous 2nd round matchup with a talented, but underachieving major team that is looking to prove itself at an 8-9 or 7-10 slot(like we were last year).

Because its common sense you'd rather have the easier path than the harder one? Well it is far more likely a lower seed will have an easier path. Not guaranteed, but much more likely.

And I've been repeating this bc too many people think seeds are not important.

[number1]

The Arkansas loss didn't worry me too much, and this one worries me even less. HOWEVER, I did warn people after the Arizona loss that this team was going to get it in their heads that they can't win at the end of games. The fact is, if a game comes down to the wire in the NCAA tournament, I don't like our chances. Not one bit.

I wanted a close game, and we got one. I just wanted the Gators to have this kind of opportunity to prove themselves, and for lack of a better term, they choked. Let's all hope someone else tests us in the near future.

This just means that the team needs to just blow out all of the teams they face in the tournament. lol

[bakaduin]

What's the big deal? We weren't a 1 or 2 last year and we made it to the Elite 8. It is all about matchups, not the seeding. A lot of times the 1 or 2 seed will end up with a very dangerous 2nd round matchup with a talented, but underachieving major team that is looking to prove itself at an 8-9 or 7-10 slot(like we were last year).

That is like saying why recruit 5 star players when a few 3 stars pan out. A 1 or 2 seed has far and away more likelihood of making the Final Four. Yes it is all about matchups but a 1/2 seed leads to favorable match ups.

Last year was a 1, 2, 2, 4; year before was 8, 11, 3, 4; year before 1, 2, 5, 5; year before 1, 1, 2, 3.

So in the last 4 years 50% of the Final Four teams were a 1 or 2 seed.

[WESGATORS]

If we beat Missouri by 20 points, we may be more likely to be a #1 seed, but we may be less likely to grow. The loss may make us more likely to be a #2 seed or a #3 seed, but we have room for growth. That is why I say the close loss is better than a blowout win. Ultimately, though, it will be up to the team to prove this correct or not. I think losses like this are helpful to remind a team that dominates so much that they are truly vulnerable. It's not just about seeding, but about how you get to the level you need to be at come tournament time.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[number1]

That is like saying why recruit 5 star players when a few 3 stars pan out. A 1 or 2 seed has far and away more likelihood of making the Final Four. Yes it is all about matchups but a 1/2 seed leads to favorable match ups.

Last year was a 1, 2, 2, 4; year before was 8, 11, 3, 4; year before 1, 2, 5, 5; year before 1, 1, 2, 3.

So in the last 4 years 50% of the Final Four teams were a 1 or 2 seed.

I am just saying, because we don't end up with a 1 or 2 seed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. lol. We have a lot of chicken littles running around. Folks are acting like they didn't predict us losing this game earlier in the season.

[BengermanV]

This just means that the team needs to just blow out all of the teams they face in the tournament. lol

Not necessarily, but I get what you are saying. This team has the talent to blow anyone out, but in order to win the NCAA tournament, you are going to have to be able to get a 10 points lead and hold it. It's almost like our team is confused when the other team doesn't throw in the towel after we get a nice lead.

This team can win in the clutch (we've only had two close games, so statistics would say that just by pure chance you're 25% likely to have that happen to you), it just needs to learn that it can do so.

I also put a little bit of the blame on Billy (who I almost never criticize), because I feel like it's his job to say "You know what Kenny? I have a lot of confidence in you, but tonight just hasn't been your night. Let's get the ball in the hands of someone who has been playing well instead." The fact of the matter is, we have one of the hottest shooters in the country on our team right now (two of them, if you count Frazier) and he didn't even get a touch! That's on Billy.

[ufgator4ever]

its not a melt down ... everyone was stroking this team and my opinion is that this team is soft and will not go past the elite 8 , we are a good team but not close to a championship team
Don't agree the team is soft. Have you seen the D? But do agree they have no quality post offensive players and desipite a great deal of success driving to basket to initiate offense, they tend to fall in love with throwing it around outside and settling for 3s. When they are cold like tonight, and as they will be at least one game in tourney, vs top competition they'll lose. Just like the last two years, when they had more inside offense (see macklin) and still failed to use it.

[jareduf]

We had some fortunate either brackets or teams losing the last couple of years. It's entirely possible that our bracket will not be as favorable this year. We will have to learn how to win a close game or our season could be ending earlier than we should.

[luciaboy]

it's not meltdown but disappointment. we are clearly a front running team that seems to choke in a close game. that is not speculation but fact. the question is when is it going to change?

[Matthanuf06]

I am just saying, because we don't end up with a 1 or 2 seed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. lol. We have a lot of chicken littles running around. Folks are acting like they didn't predict us losing this game earlier in the season.

And sure, a terrible recruiting class isn't technically the end of the world either. I'm not sure of your point honestly. If its that the season isn't over until we lose in the tournament then yeah, obviously we all agree. Yet I'm not sure why folks wouldn't care about maximizing our odds at winning a championship.

[tegator80]

Not a meltdown for me, but Billy has been trying to get the pieces back together to make another serious run at the NC. Now I won't say that that option is gone, but our past two year record says that we are not finishers - due to a lack of options. We just don't have that player. Scottie was the x factor last year, IMO, and he didn't progress. This year he started out slow then kicked into a different gear but now is back to average. Is he hitting a wall expending too much energy on D to do an effective job on O? Probably this.

Casey is Casey and you want him to just let his freakish athleticism take over. Not ready yet. Patric seems to be resigned to get up for the big name players in front of him but not to humiliate a lesser one.

We will see how the final games play out and if these players get ticked about their funk - seniors need to lead now - and wait for WY to get back and help down the stretch.

[gator7_5]

Half these idiots picked Mizzou to win and still come on here roasting players and bitching and moaning about how we're not gonna win any games in March.

Truly pathetic.

[Matthanuf06]

Half these idiots picked Mizzou to win and still come on here roasting players and bitching and moaning about how we're not gonna win any games in March.

Truly pathetic.

So the fact that we lose every close game, many after losing huge leads, is not a concern of yours?

[gator7_5]

Nope. A couple years ago we made a pile of buzzer beaters just to get in the tournament. Big deal. Some times they fall, sometimes they don't. Still the same coach. I like our chances in March. But I'm not a panic guy.

[RealGatorFan]

Nope. A couple years ago we made a pile of buzzer beaters just to get in the tournament. Big deal. Some times they fall, sometimes they don't. Still the same coach. I like our chances in March. But I'm not a panic guy.

Enlighten me then. I don't recall us winning any game at the buzzer in quite a long time. If anything, I recall more than a bunch of games where we lost a game on a flailing Walker shot. It's going to take a decade to get those games out of my head and last night didn't help:P

[gator7_5]

Enlighten me then. I don't recall us winning any game at the buzzer in quite a long time. If anything, I recall more than a bunch of games where we lost a game on a flailing Walker shot. It's going to take a decade to get those games out of my head and last night didn't help:P

You ever hear of this guy named chandler parsons?

Also, that guy walker who sucks so bad at the end of games was on the floor for both and had a beautiful assist in the second one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnL-lEbOEyk

These are plays I remember. You remember gut wrentching losses. Glad I'm me and not you.

[bposs]

Don't agree the team is soft. Have you seen the D? But do agree they have no quality post offensive players and desipite a great deal of success driving to basket to initiate offense, they tend to fall in love with throwing it around outside and settling for 3s. When they are cold like tonight, and as they will be at least one game in tourney, vs top competition they'll lose. Just like the last two years, when they had more inside offense (see macklin) and still failed to use it.

Mentally, this team is soft. Not able to get one tough road win worries me. What Indiana did on the road at Mich State is pretty impressive. Wish our boys could do something like that. We also missed the front end of three 1&1 free throws, probably the difference in the game in my opinion.

We could of locked up a one seed last night, but I'm afraid we end up with 2 or 3 seed.

[gatorntuscaloosa]

There was a Hall of Famer quarterback that played not that long ago in the NFL. During his career, he led his team to some big wins including a SuperBowl. The characteristic that made him great was the same characteristic that was his achilles heel: He thought that he was so good that he could "make" things happen. He could. Sometimes it was touchdowns and sometimes it was interceptions. He thought anything was possible. It was. Sometimes he was successful and sometimes he failed. The fans of the Green Bay Packers loved Brett Farve. Yet no doubt there were plenty that were frustrated at times by his propensity to "take the game into his own hands" at key times. They loved the championship that he helped bring them. But no question that they wished that perhaps he would have at times not tried to do it all himself and maybe they would have won another title or two. Cant the same be said for K. Boyton? He has been a great Gator. His name is in the record book. He has had some great moments. But will he not be remembered just as much for helping throw away multiple games in the big dance "trying to make something happen", when ball control and pushing the rock inside for an inside foul inducing, basket producing play would have been better? If what we have seen from him to this point is what the future holds, then we can expect his instinctive belief that he can "make it happen" kick in and we will watch yet another season that could have ended hoisting a championship trophy drop into the trash can of shattered dreams. Time will tell.

[Matthanuf06]

You ever hear of this guy named chandler parsons?

Also, that guy walker who sucks so bad at the end of games was on the floor for both and had a beautiful assist in the second one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnL-lEbOEyk

These are plays I remember. You remember gut wrentching losses. Glad I'm me and not you.

You do realize we've choked in pretty much every close game (especially the big ones) since the last ones you can remember, which is in 2010. That includes 2011, 2012, and now 2013.

The question isn't whether or not we've ever won a close game in our history, we have. The question is whether or not our recent run of choking in close games will be our demise, as it has been the last two years.

[WESGATORS]

The problem with focusing only on "close games" is that it discounts the good being done in playing to not have as many close games. Obviously that, to some extent, can be attributed to lack of talent from the opposition, but not all of it. Is it better to be 7-3 in close games or to be 0-2 in close games where the other 8 games were won by double-digits? At the end of the day you are still looking at a 7-3 record vs. an 8-2 record.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[wci347]

We have not faced a team all year that was going into the game clearly better than we were and where we lost the lead down the stretch. That is a lot easier to digest. When you lose to teams that have 5'9" guards outrebounding your center and getting more offensive rebounds than your center and your power forward, as a fan, I think we have a right to be upset.

This was like a 3 seed losing to a 14 seed. Missouri hasn't had a McDonalds All American on their roster in over a decade. We have three on ours and three starting seniors, and we collapsed again in the final minutes.

As everyone is saying, if we are in a close game with 2-3 minutes left we lose. Until we can shake that stigma it is what it is.

[tommyuf21]

You do realize we've choked in pretty much every close game (especially the big ones) since the last ones you can remember, which is in 2010. That includes 2011, 2012, and now 2013.

The question isn't whether or not we've ever won a close game in our history, we have. The question is whether or not our recent run of choking in close games will be our demise, as it has been the last two years.

You do remember that we won a lot of close games in the regular season that year and barely made the NCAA tourney. Then lost in a 7-10 game against BYU in the first round.

Close wins in the regluar season do not equal close wins in the tourney.

A lot of people are trying to make something out of nothing. Try looking objectively at this team's strengths and weakneses position by position and quit obssessing over each and every game and the margin.

We will go far in the NCAA tourney if we don't get matched up against teams that have an edge against us in the low post. We will not be playing against any team in their home gym, so that is not an issue at all.

The problem here is that too many people have built this team up to an other worldy stature. They are very good, but lack certain characteristics that most championship teams have. In a weak year, they can still do it, but Missouri is not some "14 seed" team. They are much better than that and on their home floor are pretty close to even with us.

[tommyuf21]

And to get back to this choking thing. Have you or others here come to the conclusion that over the last three years Billy has gotten everything he could out of teams that are not even close to some of the talented teams we've had here in the past?

Do you really think we were of Elite 8 quality last year? I don't think so.

Next season is the year that the pieces will be in place for a deep run that will happen because of talent and athleticism and not a lucky draw in the tourney and good coaching.

[SmootyGator]

The question isn't whether or not we've ever won a close game in our history, we have. The question is whether or not our recent run of choking in close games will be our demise, as it has been the last two years.

Relax dude! This just means we're due! Haven't you heard of the law of averages? :laugh:

[gatordavisl]

The problem with focusing only on "close games" is that it discounts the good being done in playing to not have as many close games. Obviously that, to some extent, can be attributed to lack of talent from the opposition, but not all of it. Is it better to be 7-3 in close games or to be 0-2 in close games where the other 8 games were won by double-digits? At the end of the day you are still looking at a 7-3 record vs. an 8-2 record. There is something to be said for winning close games. It seems that teams winning the majority of their "barn burner" have developed a knack for doing so. IOW - they understand HOW to win the close ones. Your point about 7-3/0-2 is noteworthy, but there is more data than 8-2, esp wrt to close games. Over the past couple of seasons, the Gators have lost 8/9, which is the likely cause for concern here.

[TampaGatorFan]

Mentally, this team is soft. Not able to get one tough road win worries me. What Indiana did on the road at Mich State is pretty impressive. Wish our boys could do something like that. We also missed the front end of three 1&1 free throws, probably the difference in the game in my opinion.

We could of locked up a one seed last night, but I'm afraid we end up with 2 or 3 seed.

^ this

Another road game the Gators should have won, but choked away down the stretch. It's clearly in their heads now. Come tourney time, most of the games are going to be like the one last night, and I don't give our boys much hope in that scenario, tbh.

[gatorsfan530]

why the panic after a loss? why the meltdown? why the 'woe'?

come on, now, we've got alot of data points to examine that should temper our responses. from the championship teams dropping games leading to the post-season. we panicked back then too.

last 2 years, the teams haven't been near as good at this stage of the season as this current team. come tourney time, though, we advanced to the elite eight. this team is better: yet we have several on the board almost to the point of throwing in the towel, it seems. i don't know if it's melodramatic or hyperbole.

anything can happen in the tourney - i hope we are all mature enough to agree about that. but one thing that we might do better on the boards is not get so giddy after a win and not get so l-o-w after a loss. what's astounding to me - and yeah i'm guilty of this reaction from time to time - is the spikes and valleys in the sentiments after a game - whether it's a big win and we predict we can compete in the nba [tongue in cheek hyperbole] or we'll make a first round exit in the ncaa's after a loss.

Because these "fans" are absolutely spoiled

[RealGatorFan]

You ever hear of this guy named chandler parsons?

Also, that guy walker who sucks so bad at the end of games was on the floor for both and had a beautiful assist in the second one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnL-lEbOEyk

These are plays I remember. You remember gut wrentching losses. Glad I'm me and not you.

Oh wow..I completely forgot that was at the end of the game!!! Sheesh, we lose a ton of short 3s and Parsons hit that one from the other end. Karma:-)

[tommyuf21]

Those two wins got us back into the NCAA tourney, after two years of NIT.

[regurgigator]

Don't agree the team is soft. Have you seen the D? But do agree they have no quality post offensive players and desipite a great deal of success driving to basket to initiate offense, they tend to fall in love with throwing it around outside and settling for 3s. When they are cold like tonight, and as they will be at least one game in tourney, vs top competition they'll lose. Just like the last two years, when they had more inside offense (see macklin) and still failed to use it.

Well said!

And, a much better way of explaining our weaknesses than calling our players "chokers". There is no need to use such an ugly term against our student-athletes :angry:






I'm one of the ones who has built this team up in my mind to "other-worldly" dimensions. My opinion is that while this team has some offensive shortcomings (but, not as many as I had expected coming into the season) this team plays defense as tough and as sound as any Gator team I've ever seen; and I'm excited as hell looking forward to seeing what they can do in the Tourney. But, despite how great I think we are, I'm not one of the ones that goes ballistic after every loss. To me, that's just the nature of basketball and we've seen every top team in the nation struggle at times this season.

The incredible level of anguish over our record in close games reminds me of the hysteria created over the Miami Heat losing a number of close games.

We've seen plenty of instances where supposed chokers have done fine in the Tourney and where teams that won a lot of close games ended up losing early in the Tourney. As for me, I think we'll go as far as our defense takes us (again, similar to the Heat in the NBA playoffs last season), and if that defense is as good as I believe it is, we'll be hard to knock out.

[regurgigator]

Mentally, this team is soft. Not able to get one tough road win worries me. What Indiana did on the road at Mich State is pretty impressive. Wish our boys could do something like that. We also missed the front end of three 1&1 free throws, probably the difference in the game in my opinion.

We could of locked up a one seed last night, but I'm afraid we end up with 2 or 3 seed.

But, didn't Young shoot two of those? Unfortunately, that's somewhat par for the course for Young. We basically have to accept some missed FTs if Young goes to the line in exchange for all the other good things he brings to the table.

I think Wilbekin missed the other one-and-one front end, but when you're talking about 70-75% FT shooters, you can't really lambaste him for missing a single FT.

We got to the double bonus with over 5 minutes left in the game, which I thought might end up being big for us. But, it didn't end up being a big factor down the stretch.

[tommyuf21]

I think Wilbekin missed the other one-and-one front end, but when you're talking about 70-75% FT shooters, you can't really lambaste him for missing a single FT.



Throughout his career, Scottie has been a mid 60's FT shooter. Part of that is not having many attempts, but he has to improve at least 10%. If he's going to continue to be our primary ball handler at the end of game situations, he simply has to improve into the mid 70's.

[Matthanuf06]

Relax dude! This just means we're due! Haven't you heard of the law of averages? :laugh:

That's the point though. For 99% of teams it's just a matter of simple probability on how they do in close games. Having more of them doesn't really make them better in close games. If two teams are similar, it's a coin flip. Hence your law of averages. The problem here is the sample size is getting large enough to say that we may actually perform worse, that it may not be a coin flip.

[TampaGatorFan]

Those two wins got us back into the NCAA tourney, after two years of NIT.

That 70-footer against NCST was a thing of beauty. I was watching that game at home, and when it went in, I was screaming "OH SH*T! OH SH*T!" about a dozen times. What a great day that was! :joecool:

[g8rboy]

That 70-footer against NCST was a thing of beauty. I was watching that game at home, and when it went in, I was screaming "OH SH*T! OH SH*T!" about a dozen times. What a great day that was! :joecool:

also watched that live. my poor wife and kids.

[stingbb]

why the panic after a loss? why the meltdown? why the 'woe'?

come on, now, we've got alot of data points to examine that should temper our responses. from the championship teams dropping games leading to the post-season. we panicked back then too.

last 2 years, the teams haven't been near as good at this stage of the season as this current team. come tourney time, though, we advanced to the elite eight. this team is better: yet we have several on the board almost to the point of throwing in the towel, it seems. i don't know if it's melodramatic or hyperbole.

anything can happen in the tourney - i hope we are all mature enough to agree about that. but one thing that we might do better on the boards is not get so giddy after a win and not get so l-o-w after a loss. what's astounding to me - and yeah i'm guilty of this reaction from time to time - is the spikes and valleys in the sentiments after a game - whether it's a big win and we predict we can compete in the nba [tongue in cheek hyperbole] or we'll make a first round exit in the ncaa's after a loss.

Because most on these boards have no clue, quite frankly. When UF was winning by large margins early, people were comparing this team to the 06 and 07 teams, which was absolutely crazy. There is not one player on this years team (except maybe Boynton) who would have started on those teams.

This is a very good team but it has its flaws (primarily a lack of an inside game or a SG/SF type who can slash to the basket). That said, this team, with the right match ups can make another nice run come tourney time.

[WESGATORS]

When UF was winning by large margins early, people were comparing this team to the 06 and 07 teams, which was absolutely crazy.

Vegas has already made the comparisons; they're not crazy. It's not about evaluating individual talent vs. one another, it's about evaluating their chances of success as a team. The GATORS in February of 2013 are viewed more favorably as a contender than the GATORS in February of 2006 were. Consider this, in the February 28th, 2006 AP poll we had just dropped from 12th to 17th after our 3rd consecutive loss and an 8-6 conference record. People weren't very optimistic about a national championship around here at that time. I know a few folks had tickets to cash, but how many of those folks do you recall claiming it was a good bet before the season? Or even at that point during the season? None that I recall.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[gatormann]

Boo! Hoo! Imagine how tragic it would be if Florida only made it to another Elite 8. :roll:
Enjoy the ride with all its ups and downs. :yes:

[gulfgator]

Vegas has already made the comparisons; they're not crazy. It's not about evaluating individual talent vs. one another, it's about evaluating their chances of success as a team. The GATORS in February of 2013 are viewed more favorably as a contender than the GATORS in February of 2006 were. Consider this, in the February 28th, 2006 AP poll we had just dropped from 12th to 17th after our 3rd consecutive loss and an 8-6 conference record. People weren't very optimistic about a national championship around here at that time. I know a few folks had tickets to cash, but how many of those folks do you recall claiming it was a good bet before the season? Or even at that point during the season? None that I recall.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

A lot of casual hoop fans must think UF went virtually undefeated 06-07, and of course these types of fans knew, the 04s were going to win it all, so don't be comparing this bunch to them......or they'll laugh. :whoa:

[stingbb]

Vegas has already made the comparisons; they're not crazy. It's not about evaluating individual talent vs. one another, it's about evaluating their chances of success as a team. The GATORS in February of 2013 are viewed more favorably as a contender than the GATORS in February of 2006 were. Consider this, in the February 28th, 2006 AP poll we had just dropped from 12th to 17th after our 3rd consecutive loss and an 8-6 conference record. People weren't very optimistic about a national championship around here at that time. I know a few folks had tickets to cash, but how many of those folks do you recall claiming it was a good bet before the season? Or even at that point during the season? None that I recall.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

I don't care what Vegas said in mid Feb of 2006. Obviously, UF came out of no where that season and at that time, no one knew how good the Noah's, Horford's and Brewer's would become.

I am just saying there is no comparison in the talent levels of the two teams and if you asked the "experts" in Vegas, they would say the same thing. But, like I said before, this year's team is very good and if they get favorable match ups and the ball bounces their way, UF has the ability to make a nice run again next month.

[gatorsfan530]

Boo! Hoo! Imagine how tragic it would be if Florida only made it to another Elite 8. :roll:
Enjoy the ride with all its ups and downs. :yes:

People on here will definitely complain about that

[regurgigator]

A lot of casual hoop fans must think UF went virtually undefeated 06-07, and of course these types of fans knew, the 04s were going to win it all, so don't be comparing this bunch to them......or they'll laugh. :whoa:

They can laugh if they want, but I'll compare them: This year's team has played better, more consistent basketball during the regular season than either of the championship teams.


That doesn't mean I think they're as talented as the championship teams. I most emphatically do not. But, as a team, this year's group is performing very, very well.

And, it doesn't mean I believe this team is as well-equipped as the championship teams to win 6 straight games in the NCAA Tourney. I don't think they are (this team has great defense, but has more weaknesses on offense), but I'm anxious to see them in the Tourney because I think they are pretty a pretty special team.

I know there's always the possibility you can lose to a team in the Tourney that's just playing a great game, but if this team wilts and plays a poor game in the Tourney, I'll be shocked.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

It is not that we lose, it is the way we lose. Donovan has a losing record in close game for his career. He is by far the worst in that statistic among the active top coaches in college basketball.

When games get close, the Donovan guards almost refuse to go inside and instead seem to rely way to much on contested threes.

The Gainesville Sun had a nice article about this right after the Mizzou loss.

[SwampFox]

Driving to the hoop is, simply put, not this team's MO. Casey Hill may change all that, but till then, this is a jump shooting team looking for easy opportunities if they are there, if not, expect the 3 point hoist. It is what this team is about like it or not.

[gulfgator]

It is not that we lose, it is the way we lose. Donovan has a losing record in close game for his career. He is by far the worst in that statistic among the active top coaches in college basketball.

When games get close, the Donovan guards almost refuse to go inside and instead seem to rely way to much on contested threes.

The Gainesville Sun had a nice article about this right after the Mizzou loss.

Interesting.... I prefer this stat:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_all-time_team_records

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Interesting.... I prefer this stat:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_all-time_team_records

It is a good NCAA record. Here are the stat to which I referred;

Brockway of the Gainesville Sun

But the Achilles heel of Donovan's coaching tenure in 17 seasons showed up again in UF's 63-60 loss at Missouri ? his ability to get the Gators to close out tight basketball games. The loss dropped Donovan to 67-76 overall in gamed decided by five points or less, and 58-75 in gamed decided by five points or less at UF.

Florida has won eight games by 30 points this season, but is 0-2 in games decided by 5 or less. And UF's last two Elite Eight losses have come in games decided by five points or less due to questionable shot selection by Kenny Boynton and the now departed Erving Walker. There are many theories why Florida struggles to score in clutch situations and most center around UF's reliance on the 3-point shot. Donovan also appears to give his guards too much freedom late in games without consequences for their actions. (My note: Boynton seems to confirm this in his post games comments.)

For context, here's a look at how Donovan's record in games decided by 5 points or less measures up to contemporary active coaches who have won national titles. Interestingly enough, Donovan is closest in record to his mentor, Louisville coach Rick Pitino:

Jim Boeheim, Syracuse ? 190-112 .628

Bill Self, Kansas ? 80-60 .571

John Calipari, Kentucky ? 81-61 .570

Roy Williams, North Carolina ? 91-73 .555

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke ? 139-112 .554

Tom Izzo, Michigan State ? 76-63 .547

Rick Pitino, Louisville ? 94-93 .503

Billy Donovan, Florida ? 67-76 .469

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Another troubling statistic;

"Tuesday night's 63-60 loss at Missouri dropped Florida (22-4, 12-2 SEC) to 0-3 in games decided by six points or fewer this season and was the Gators' eighth straight loss in games decided by fewer than 10 points."

[BobK89]

We blew a 13 point lead on the road. The last two tournaments we blew late leads to go to the Final Four. Some melt down concerns after the MO loss may warranted.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[Brewski]

Another troubling statistic;

"Tuesday night's 63-60 loss at Missouri dropped Florida (22-4, 12-2 SEC) to 0-3 in games decided by six points or fewer this season and was the Gators' eighth straight loss in games decided by fewer than 10 points."

Get to the final 8 two years in a row and I don't care if he loses the whole season. As another UF coach says (Muschamp) stats are for losers. Just win when it counts baby. I'd take Billy D over any coach right now.

[rserina]

Losses like Zona and Mizzou don't really bother me. At the time, sure, but in the grand scheme of things close road losses where you lead the entire game then fart it away on missed free throws, turnovers, bad shot selection, etc., don't reflect much on the team as a whole or its prospects. Arky and K-State were a little worse, but still par for the course in a long season.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Just win when it counts baby.

We could not close out two elite eights when it counted.

[rserina]

We could not close out two elite eights when it counted.
Yet he somehow found a way to close out those two national titles and get that other trip to the national title game. Guess he has lost his way.

Your other stat about eight straight losses is completely off. That would make five (three this year, two at the end of last year). All of those were on the road or at a neutral site. Never mind that we were 7-6 in such games last year, or that we have been dominant enough this season to win 22 games by more than ten points.

I guess you can spin it however you want if the goal is to criticize the best hoops coach in our league since Adolph Rupp.

[WESGATORS]

Never mind that we were 7-6 in such games last year

My understanding of the rules is that you are only allowed to reference past seasons when bringing up negative stats/trends.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[rserina]

My understanding of the rules is that you are only allowed to reference past seasons when bringing up negative stats/trends.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS
Silly me. Sorry. I need to read the rulebook on pessimism again.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Yet he somehow found a way to close out those two national titles and get that other trip to the national title game. Guess he has lost his way.

Your other stat about eight straight losses is completely off. That would make five (three this year, two at the end of last year). All of those were on the road or at a neutral site. Never mind that we were 7-6 in such games last year, or that we have been dominant enough this season to win 22 games by more than ten points.

I guess you can spin it however you want if the goal is to criticize the best hoops coach in our league since Adolph Rupp.

I am often astonished at the knee jerk reactions from some Gators. There is a difference between analysis and unjustified criticisms. You should learn the difference.

[ThePlayer]

Driving to the hoop is, simply put, not this team's MO. Casey Hill may change all that, but till then, this is a jump shooting team looking for easy opportunities if they are there, if not, expect the 3 point hoist. It is what this team is about like it or not.

You mean...this team is a reflection of it's coach?

[gatorsfan530]

You mean...this team is a reflection of it's coach?

Nice swipe at Billy Donovan. I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

[WESGATORS]

I am often astonished at the knee jerk reactions from some Gators. There is a difference between analysis and unjustified criticisms. You should learn the difference.

In 2011, we were coming off an OT win against BYU, and we lost an OT game on Sunday (to Butler). We saw an 11-point lead shrink to a 3-point lead from the 9:26 mark left in the 2nd half to the 5:46 mark left in the 2nd half. But it's not like we were dominating the whole game, we led by 3 points only a few minutes prior to the largest lead of the game for us. So from the 13:02 mark in the 2nd half to the 5:46 mark in the 2nd half FLORIDA and Butler each scored 12 points, that our 3 1/2 minute stretch came before their 3 1/2 minute stretch should not be confused with a late game collapse that are otherwise being referenced. That game was tight the whole way through.

In 2012, we played over our seed, other than the frustration of having it all come to an end, it's hard not to face the realization that we were a 7 seed. FLORIDA did a fine job without Yeguete and let's not forget that they knocked of Marquette (#3) the round earlier. Sometimes we get too caught up in complaining about our misfortunes that we neglect to give the other team credit for being good enough to put us in that position to begin with.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Wes, I am not disputing that Donovan has done a great jop at Florida. But one can also make a credible case that Florida has left a lot on the table.

[sec1]

this team should of never been compared to the 2006 /07 team ... too many differences, this team is good but the 2006/07 were amazing , a true TEAM ...

[GatorJeff]

By the comments of some posters, you'd never suspect that Donovan has won 73.3% of his NCAA tournament games. It's the sort of pouty fan entitlement that eventually ran off Spurrier and Meyer.

[oneatatime]

just get us to the 8 healthy regulars by NCAA tournament time and I will put us up against anyone, irrespective of our seed

[G8R92]

"Any more coaches here? Want to ask another coaching question? I'd be happy to take it. I've only been doing this 37 years, I'm sure you've got more ideas of who we should play or we shouldn't play or who should lead? What do I know?"

- Jim Boeheim after the 3 point loss to Marquette last night

[gator0316]

this team plays good defense and when their hitting the threes they can beat anyone,but if their cold from outside like murphy against ark ,mizz their in big trouble.the other team will pack it in let the cold shooters go at it and we lose.i think they better get alot better inside game or they wont go very far .

[SmootyGator]

We could not close out two elite eights when it counted.

What about the three games before each elite eight? Did those not count?

[tommyuf21]

In 2012, we played over our seed, other than the frustration of having it all come to an end, it's hard not to face the realization that we were a 7 seed. FLORIDA did a fine job without Yeguete and let's not forget that they knocked of Marquette (#3) the round earlier. Sometimes we get too caught up in complaining about our misfortunes that we neglect to give the other team credit for being good enough to put us in that position to begin with.
Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Front runner-itis, sadly learned from our friends in the Bluegrass State.

[tommyuf21]

Wes, I am not disputing that Donovan has done a great jop at Florida. But one can also make a credible case that Florida has left a lot on the table.

Without Donovan, there would have been nothing on the table.....

[GatorJeff]

We could not close out two elite eights when it counted.

He's won three out of five "Elite Eight" games since 2000.

[ovillegator]

Without Donovan, there would have been nothing on the table.....

There would not even have been a table.

[tommyuf21]

There would not even have been a table.

I stand corrected. :yes:

[g8rboy]

He's won three out of five "Elite Eight" games since 2000.

and, for that matter, three out of five "final four" games

[regurgigator]

this team should of never been compared to the 2006 /07 team ... too many differences, this team is good but the 2006/07 were amazing , a true TEAM ...

This year's team is a "true TEAM" also. They're playing as well (and I think better) and as consistently in the regular season as any Gator team I've ever seen, and they're doing it without the NBA lottery talent of the 06/07 teams.

I love our chances in the Tourney assuming we're healthy - and with the understanding that the NCAA field has probably a 75% to 80% chance of winning over any single team this season.

[WESGATORS]

and, for that matter, three out of five "final four" games

He's won three out of five "Elite Eight" games since 2000.

60%? That's an F.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[g8rboy]

60%? That's an F.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

yup. and that 2 out of 3 championship game record is just appalling.

[socraticsilence]

A lot of casual hoop fans must think UF went virtually undefeated 06-07, and of course these types of fans knew, the 04s were going to win it all, so don't be comparing this bunch to them......or they'll laugh. :whoa:

06 was a surprise, 07 despite a few unexpected regular season losses wasn't- going into the tourney I have to think even among non-Florida fans the Gators were a heavy, heavy favorite.

[gatormoe1]

Dick Vitale was one of the first people to embrace Florida winning it all in 06. I clearly remember him saying "this is the year of the Gator".

How right he was..

[tommyuf21]

06 was a surprise, 07 despite a few unexpected regular season losses wasn't- going into the tourney I have to think even among non-Florida fans the Gators were a heavy, heavy favorite.

We were the best team in 2007, even with a very talented Ohio State team in the mix.
I felt very confident that we would take it. Not only from a talent standpoint, but we had that feeling of destiny to repeat.

[GatorJeff]

and, for that matter, three out of five "final four" games

You mean five out of six Final Four games. His only loss was the 2000 National Championship game. That's 83.3%.

[SmootyGator]

and, for that matter, three out of five "final four" games

He's actually 3 for 3 in first round final four games. 5 of 6 in total final four games.

5 out of 6 in FF games... that's what? 83%. B-

[tommyuf21]

Let's see. The list of final four victims are as follows:

North Carolina
George Mason
UCLA (2x)
Ohio State

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

What about the three games before each elite eight? Did those not count?

Of course they count. As I mentioned before, it is not the losses that are disturbing. it is the way we lose.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Without Donovan, there would have been nothing on the table.....

Agreed

[g8rboy]

He's actually 3 for 3 in first round final four games. 5 of 6 in total final four games.

5 out of 6 in FF games... that's what? 83%. B-

yeah. sorry for the brain fart. someone smack me.