Boyton

[canadagator2]

Is going to be the death of this team. He is the lone player, playing like Walker last year. As much as i love Billy, I put some of the blame on him for letting him shoot sooo. many bad shots.

[Gatuar]

I'm more disappointed he's not making them

[flgtrs]

Will be glad when hes gone.....wish he would have left last year...

[ugaGator]

I'm more disappointed he's not making them

This. Boynton used to have that extra gear when the game was on the line. Seems it needs a little warming up.

[108]

Boynton is the remaining link between our horrible guard play the last 3 years in the games we've lost like this

At some point, Donovan has to take some responsibility for only allowing Boynton to get away with taking some of the shots he takes....everyone else he chews the hell out

[canadagator2]

Am I wrong here? Am I dreaming? The same sh..t that happened last year at the end of games happened again tonight. For once I want them to drive or throw the ball into the paint down by 2 or less. I am so frustrated tonight with the end of the game situation I can't control myself. Again, Billy has to answer the question of why he keeps letting him shot like this. It's not his percentage of 3's.

[West_End_Gator]

His late game decision making on shots has simply cost us too many games. There's no excuse. It has to stop.

[channingcrowderhungry]

Lack of inside offensive game is the issue. Not Kenny.

[Noahtogo24]

C'mon you can put the loss on him tonight. We shot less than 50% from free throws tonight, that's why we loss

[GatorEst1992]

I feel the same way not once did we try to drive it down the middle and get fouled or make lay ups, our inability to get in the paint is why we won't win the national championship, you can't rely on the 3 pointers, and we live or die by them

[number1]

It is something that has plagued us the past 3 seasons.

[number1]

I feel the same way not once did we try to drive it down the middle and get fouled or make lay ups, our inability to get in the paint is why we won't win the national championship, you can't rely on the 3 pointers, and we live or die by them

Didn't seem like we really started relying on them until recently.

[canadagator2]

Wait, someone defends his shot selection. You've got to be kidding. A great gator because he's put up more bad shots then ones made in his career. Give me a break!

[GatorEst1992]

We have always been a 3 point shooting team every year we are in the top ten of 3 pointers made ever since I can remember we haven't had any big men down low since the NC teams

[canadagator2]

Ya, spelling counts. Contribute to the thread or leave.

[born2beagator]

this thread is trash. Free throws lost this game. Not one shot

[gtr2x]

At least spell the kid's name right.

[mikechap93]

Soooo it's boyntons fault that billy Donovan drew that play up for him? That wasn't a bad look even. That was a fairly uncontested three...

[fljim]

KB's shot has no arc, does not spin correctly and is usually shot without settting his feet. I would rather have anyone shot the ball late in the game except Kenny.
Murphy played as bad as I have seen all year.
The Gators snagned defeat from the jaws of victory.
Billy should bench Boynton for the start of the next game but he won't.

[hgators]

Without him we don't go back to back E8 and aren't 21-4. Just pathetic. Bad shot, yes, but he stopped the bleeding kept us in.

[dawny]

Dont blame Boynton,I blame Billy for benching Frazier, our best shooter when we need points.

[canadagator2]

Wrong, bad shot selection and the same thing that has haunted this team the last two years. Unable to utilize the post when the game is on the line. At least drive the lane and make them foul you. You are only down two, oh I forgot, the great Kenny Boynton shoots up another off balanced shot to try and be the hero. Let's not forget he took another bad shot 30secs prior to that one as well. Wake up, I don't care if he is the all time leading scorer in the history of basketball, the shots he puts up towards the end of halfs and games are bad shots, period.

[channingcrowderhungry]

Some of you are idiots, seriously. He makes that 3 and your blowing him via the internet. Without him we don't go back to back E8 and aren't 21-4. Just pathetic. Bad shot, yes, but he stopped the bleeding kept us in.

It's what irrational posters on this board with little basketball IQ do. Pick a guy and make him a scapegoat. Walker/Calathes/Boynton/Werner.

[ufgator4ever]

Wayyy too many threes and missed fts tonight. Boynton has nelsonitis. If he wants team to win, he needs to focus on d, distributing and driving occasionally. I'm still hoping wilby, rosario or frazier get a shot at being clutch. Boynton is not the guy. Wilby has shown signs.
Key though is donovan. He's gotta call some better half court sets.

[ovillegator]

C'mon you can put the loss on him tonight. We shot less than 50% from free throws tonight, that's why we loss

And in the final minutes, several times the FRONT END of 1 and 1s, which is like missing two each time!

[Bazza]

Lack of inside offensive game is the issue. Not Kenny.

This. Wake up - not KB's fault we lost tonight. Geez....

[canadagator2]

What bleeding did he stop? He was the one covering the guy who put the inbounds 3 in to take the lead. Wait, did you miss that play? I think some of you have Kenny Boynton envy.

[bakaduin]

Some of you are idiots, seriously. He makes that 3 and your blowing him via the internet. Without him we don't go back to back E8 and aren't 21-4. Just pathetic. Bad shot, yes, but he stopped the bleeding kept us in.

It was still a horrible shot whether he made it or not. The chances of him making an off-balance three to win the game are low. Taking a 3 when we don't need one is also pretty poor decision making. He could have driven it to the hoop and miss or make everyone would have just walked away. Instead we have this history of just jacking up 3s at the end of games.

[CASontag]

Yeah, I think it's fine if there is some sort of movement of the ball to give Kenny a good look at the basket. But in this particular instance the ball was basically given to Kenny by Wilbekin at the top of the arc and then the shot was taken. Maybe drive inside and dish it to an open Kenny. That'd be fine. But there was no offensive flow on that last possession. *shrug*

[Noahtogo24]

KB is PART of the loss tonight, but not the WHOLE reason why we loss tonight. Murphy being cold in the first half tonight, missed free throws, plenty of blame to go around.

[precboom]

My take is that Kenny wants to be the hero all the time, which was no more evident than when he did his dramatic follow-through with seven seconds left (when he should have been crashing the boards). He took three 3s in the last few possessions, when all we needed was a bucket. Go to the damn rim! My wife is going to be pissed tomorrow when she watches the game on dvr. Selfish play by KB during crunch time, yet again. : (

[canadagator2]

Yes, free throws hurt, but we are not talking about that. It's the shot selection at the end of the game. Is there one person who thinks that was a good shot whether it went in or not? Is so, you know more then 99% of the people who pay attention to basketball because the shot stunk!

[GatorsGators]

Ya, spelling counts. Contribute to the thread or leave.By "contributing to the thread" do you mean roasting Boynton for his one bad game?

If so, I'm out as well.

[BLING]

It wasn't just Boynton. Wilbekin took a couple of REALLY bad shots in the last couple of minutes too, that baseline jumper off a 1 on 1 move, and then that stepback 3 (PRAYER!!!) that put us up 1 temporarily. Billy D said poor shot selection is why he got benched a few games back, he might have to have another pow-wow. :nervous smile: But hell you could pretty much bench our entire back-court if you wanted to nitpick shot selection.

This shit needs to get ironed out in a hurry or this team is not going to get back to the elite 8 - let alone final 4, we'll get bounced early in an NCAA tournament game if this is how we are going to play down the stretch of close games. Honestly UF has not had alot of close games due to playing some great ball (and yeah, shooting the lights out from 3 is a big reason why UF wins). But at the same time this team is also starting to show it doesn't know how to win close games when you don't shoot the opponent out of the gym. The ball needs to go in the paint in those situations, you can't just jack 3's and hope to win in the final minutes. You are basically just leaving it up to chance if you are shooting long jumpers to win the game - on the road (and in tournament NCAA arenas) the deck is stacked against you knocking down 3's in tight situations, so the odds are even longer to win when you go with that strategy. That's how UF teams let elite 8 games slip away the last two years, and that's how we've lost a couple of rough ones on the road this year.

End of half situation is the same thing as end of game, notice our shot at the very end of the first half was also a Boynton "prayer" from three? Again, this is a team issue and not just a Boynton issue. It's something Donovan needs to correct for the team as a whole by running plays that demand the ball get in the lane somehow - and also Patrick Young needs to demand the ball, but even if the ball doesn't go to Young, our guards should also be attacking rather than taking long 3. When you are down 1 you don't need to jack a 3, you need to take it to the rim.

[canadagator2]

NO scapegoat here, just the truth. If you've watched any Florida basketball in the last 3yrs this is a reoccurring theme. However, I would love to ask Billy why he has Boynton try and create off the bounce instead of coming off a screen if he wants him to shot the last shot everytime the game is on the line.

[HALLGATOR]

Cut out the insults folks. No call for those

[jcp]

Some of you are ridiculous.

[Jonas]

I love KB and some of the posts in this thread are disgusting.

With that said, he has taken some really bad three pointers at the end of close games. Wish he would finally learn to make better decisions there.

[108]

regardless of who is to blame, Kenny needs to grow up and learn a lesson this time, and Donovan needs to make sure of it

this kid is a great Gator, but Donovan has never seemed to discipline him like he has the others for taking bad shots

3 years of losing this way in a row with Kenny being right in the heart of it taking bad shots

[canadagator2]

Lets see. Kenny has shot many of these"open" threes before, check. Very rarely do they go in, check. No one is "roasting" him, all we are saying is that this is a reoccurring theme with the same results. A loss. Again, would love to ask Billy why he "designs" plays like this but he is not here to inquire. Therefore, we discuss the person taking the ill advised shots, being one, Kenny Boynton.

[UFreak]

End of both halves. Bounce, bounce at the top of the key and chuck a 3. It is the one consistent complaint of Billy D. Our end game scenarios lack imagination and do not often enough result in a good offensive play.

For gods sake, get Murphy a touch in the post. He's all stretch and no 4

[GatorsGators]

It wasn't just Boynton. Wilbekin took a couple of REALLY bad shots in the last couple of minutes too, that baseline jumper off a 1 on 1 move, and then that stepback 3 (PRAYER!!!) that put us up 1 temporarily. Billy D said poor shot selection is why he got benched a few games back, he might have to have another pow-wow. :nervous smile: But hell you could pretty much bench our entire back-court if you wanted to nitpick shot selection.

This shit needs to get ironed out in a hurry or this team is not going to get back to the elite 8 - let alone final 4, we'll get bounced early in an NCAA tournament game if this is how we are going to play down the stretch of close games. Honestly UF has not had alot of close games due to playing some great ball (and yeah, shooting the lights out from 3 is a big reason why UF wins). But at the same time this team is also starting to show it doesn't know how to win close games when you don't shoot the opponent out of the gym. The ball needs to go in the paint in those situations, you can't just jack 3's and hope to win in the final minutes. You are basically just leaving it up to chance if you are shooting long jumpers to win the game - on the road (and in tournament NCAA arenas) the deck is stacked against you knocking down 3's in tight situations, so the odds are even longer to win when you go with that strategy. That's how UF teams let elite 8 games slip away the last two years, and that's how we've lost a couple of rough ones on the road this year.

End of half situation is the same thing as end of game, notice our shot at the very end of the first half was also a Boynton "prayer" from three? Again, this is a team issue and not just a Boynton issue. It's something Donovan needs to correct for the team as a whole by running plays that demand the ball get in the lane somehow - and also Patrick Young needs to demand the ball, but even if the ball doesn't go to Young, our guards should also be attacking rather than taking long 3. When you are down 1 you don't need to jack a 3, you need to take it to the rim.The baseline jumper was a wide open 15 footer - that's a shot Wilbekin needs to be taking. The prayer wasn't the best shot, but the shot clock was running down and we needed someone to make a play. He did.

Rosario has done a pretty good job of reining in the bad shots lately. Now we need Boynton to do the same.

[InstiGATOR1]

It seems pretty simple to me. You are down 1. You have time to take a shot, if you miss you can foul and if they make both you can get another look from 3. UF had two looks, both reasonably open. They were taken by two different SRs. NOTE BOYNTON DID NOT FORCE A LONG 3 BUT MADE PASS TO ROSARIO OPEN IN THE CORNER. Alas neither fell for UF.

My only criticism is if that is your strategy, maybe you need Frazier in the game too. I guess the problem is for whom?

[GatorsGators]

It seems pretty simple to me. You are down 1. You have time to take a shot, if you miss you can foul and if they make both you can get another look from 3. UF had two looks, both reasonably open. They were taken by two different SRs. NOTE BOYNTON DID NOT FORCE A LONG 3 BUT MADE PASS TO ROSARIO OPEN IN THE CORNER. Alas neither fell for UF.

My only criticism is if that is your strategy, maybe you need Frazier in the game too. I guess the problem is for whom?Neither shot was open at all imo. I wasn't expecting us to get a much better shot than the one Rosario got at the end, but we should've been able to get a much better look than the one Boynton took.

[spongeBob88]

I love Boynton and think he's a great player and huge asset to this team. That said I don't want him taking the last shot in a close game like this. All you haters need to lay off him though.

[canadagator2]

Has anyone every questioned Billy about these end of the game situations? If one was a reporter wouldn't that be your question? He is too smart a coach to not see what we see. I too, think he gives Kenny too much fee reign. Kenny has done this for so long that he probably thinks it's his right to shoot every last shot in a game. Yes, I know Boynton has played his heart out and is one of Florida's leading 3pt shooters yada, yada, yada, but do you not go "noooo" every time he puts up a ill advised shot?

[UFreak]

I have no problem with Boynton taking the last shot. I have a problem with Boynton settling for the shot he took.

But this is on Billy too. Need a little better looks in end game scenarios. A little more imagination from the coach, unless you got "a guy."

[xenythx]

Boynton is a very good player and an important cog for us if we want to win it all. The problem is that he runs hot and cold. He's the definition of a streaky shooter. And he can go multiple games in a row shooting poorly.

But I'm kind of disappointed that in four years, his offensive repertoire hasn't expanded all that much - no midrange game, only the occasional floater, rare dribble drives, etc.

What happened to the 5-star recruit that was supposed to be a scoring machine with an arsenal of offensive skills? He seems to have fallen in love with the three. I don't have the stats but I'd be surprised if > 50% of his shots aren't three point attempts.

[GatorsGators]

I have no problem with Boynton taking the last shot. I have a problem with Boynton settling for the shot he took.

But this is on Billy too. Need a little better looks in end game scenarios. A little more imagination from the coach, unless you got "a guy."This

[precboom]

I don't think anyone here is "hating" on KB. Some of us are pointing out that he tends to make poor decisions down the stretch. We are fans and we all have opinions. Last time I checked, this was a message board. If you don't like what people are saying, jump over to Swamp Gas.

Back to the debate: I have a hard time believing that Billy drew up Kenny taking a three with eight seconds left, when we were down by one point! Even Jimmy Dykes said that he felt Billy was trying to get it down inside.

At the very least, take it to the rim. Hell, you may even get fouled!

I went back to watch Kenny's last shot again... I'm now even more confident that this was KB's unilateral decision to hit the game-winner. If Billy wanted Kenny to take the last shot, don't you think they would have set up a screen or rub for Kenny... The tape doesn't lie: There was absolutely no screen or rub to spring him free. He was just there. In fact, just after Scotty passed it to Kenny, Scotty was looking for Kenny to pass it back.

[tommyuf21]

Missouri did a good job of switching and avoiding the ball screens. Patric usually gets his body on the defender and slows him down. On many possessions, the Missouri defender was able to avoid him. As a consequence, we didn't get nearly as many open looks as the game drew to a close.

They have the athleticism to defend us and with Bowers back, they had the low post game to challenge us there as well.

I also noticed that our shooters seemed to not move without the ball as effectively as they were earlier in the game.

Our low post game is what it is, inconsistent and not something that we can rely on to win games.

[ufgator4ever]

What is kb's season 3%? I really think for good of team donnovan or he need to reduce his attempts beyond the arc. Take it to the hoop, mid range jumper, distribute. Just lay off the 3. It not working this year.

[faber]

Love Billy D, but when he switched to the zone Mizzou went on its game deciding run. If you go small you can't play zone and expect to get any rebounds...bad strategy, I am surprised that Boynton taking the hits, Murphy missed everything he shot in the first half tonight...face it, if we can't shoot from the outside (undewr 40%), we will have no shot in the NCAA's no pun intended.

[akaGatorhoops]

It's Erving Wal...errr...Kenny Boynton's fault!
LOL! Some of you are hilarious!

Put me in the camp that recognizes this as a team loss. . . the frontcourt got killed on the boards, the team threw up boulders from the foul line, the turnovers were awful and ball movement nearly non existant.

But yeah... its Walker...err, Kenny's fault.

[akaGatorhoops]

Has anyone every questioned Billy about these end of the game situations? If one was a reporter wouldn't that be your question? He is too smart a coach to not see what we see. I too, think he gives Kenny too much fee reign. Kenny has done this for so long that he probably thinks it's his right to shoot every last shot in a game. Yes, I know Boynton has played his heart out and is one of Florida's leading 3pt shooters yada, yada, yada, but do you not go "noooo" every time he puts up a ill advised shot?

Billy was aksed about it in the postgame interview.
The timeout discussion centered on Scottie taking the ball to the hoop. He deferred to Kenny, who launched the shot. Blame whoever you want, but there was a fair amount of sucking to spread around during that final 10 minutes.

[BengermanV]

What is kb's season 3%? I really think for good of team donnovan or he need to reduce his attempts beyond the arc. Take it to the hoop, mid range jumper, distribute. Just lay off the 3. It not working this year.

He's shooting 34% from three on the season, on 155 attempts (about 6.5 per game). Just for reference, he has shot 41 more threes than anyone else on the team and has the worst percentage out of any of our shooters:

Rosario -- 37%
Frazier -- 54%
Murphy -- 50%
Wilbekin -- 37%

[canadagator2]

Here's the problem. In today's Gainesville Sun Kenny still thinks he took a good shot. It will be very hard for this team to get where they want to go if one of it's stars thinks he is taking good shots when in fact, his coach even tells him it was a bad shot. Four years of high level basketball and the kid still doesn't know a good from a bad shot.

[bakaduin]

It's Erving Wal...errr...Kenny Boynton's fault!
LOL! Some of you are hilarious!

Put me in the camp that recognizes this as a team loss. . . the frontcourt got killed on the boards, the team threw up boulders from the foul line, the turnovers were awful and ball movement nearly non existant.

But yeah... its Walker...err, Kenny's fault.

I don't think anyone is saying the loss is "Kenny's fault". If we had played and made shots like you said, rebounded like you said, and didn't commit turnovers we wouldn't have needed a last second shot. Unfortunately we did need it and Kenny wasted the possession. In no way, shape, or form is the loss his fault but I think we can still be plenty upset that he continually freelances with the game on the line.

[gatorich]

WOW!! We lose a very tough road game to a ranked team that hasn't lost at home all year and we get posters on here attacking our Senior "shooting" guard for having the balls to take the shot at the end of the game? As others have pointed out, this is a team game and there is plenty of blame to go around to everyone. Disgusting.

[Billygator76]

We aren't going to win them all, the shots aren't going to fall for us every game, and we don't have the depth or enough big men, this isn't the 07 team, but quite a few of the malevolent post were by folks that have posted very few times. New folks with a SOWchant attitude. Maybe I'm wrong, but appeared that way before mod post. Unnecessary, I'll haven't seen that attitude on here later. JMO.

[gatorich]

Here's the problem. In today's Gainesville Sun Kenny still thinks he took a good shot. It will be very hard for this team to get where they want to go if one of it's stars thinks he is taking good shots when in fact, his coach even tells him it was a bad shot. Four years of high level basketball and the kid still doesn't know a good from a bad shot.

I would have liked to have seen a better shot but am not going to fault a senior for wanting the ball in his hands with the game on the line. Give it a rest.

[jmoliver]

10 assists and 14 turnovers. Six rebounds from the front court. We do not have a center that can compete against guys his size. Zero inside game.

[GataBaitx3]

Lack of inside offensive game is the issue. Not Kenny.

Boom.

[SmootyGator]

I didn't care for the shot he took, but I didn't yell nearly as loud for it as I did after missing the 3rd front end of a 1 and 1. I almost had to buy a new TV after that.

[Matthanuf06]

It's Erving Wal...errr...Kenny Boynton's fault!
LOL! Some of you are hilarious!

Put me in the camp that recognizes this as a team loss. . . the frontcourt got killed on the boards, the team threw up boulders from the foul line, the turnovers were awful and ball movement nearly non existant.

But yeah... its Walker...err, Kenny's fault.

In any close game you can pick and choose plays where the game would have been tilted in your favor. If you really wanted to you could find multiple plays by each starter.

Yet the fact remains we lose every single close game. It isn't just Walker, KB, free throws, refs, etc. it's an all of the above random combination of it in those close games.

The thing is, don't you think other top teams face adversity? Don't you think they have games where their shot isn't falling, the other team is hot, the refs are one sided, etc? Of course they do. We do not have a monopoly on imperfect games.

The one constant is our choking at the end of games. The statistics show if two teams are equal each team should win 50% of close games. If your team is better than the opposition you should win more than that, say 65%. That's where we should fall. Yet we don't. We fall to 0%, because the team gets substantially worse as the clock ticks and the game remains tight.

We need to solve that problem, not isolated problems.

[Matthanuf06]

We aren't going to win them all, the shots aren't going to fall for us every game, and we don't have the depth or enough big men, this isn't the 07 team, but quite a few of the malevolent post were by folks that have posted very few times. New folks with a SOWchant attitude. Maybe I'm wrong, but appeared that way before mod post. Unnecessary, I'll haven't seen that attitude on here later. JMO.

The problem is that we never win them.

[grant1]

this thread is trash. Free throws lost this game. Not one shot

FTs (6 of 12, too many missed front end 1 and 1) and 28 to 40 rebounding margin. With only 2 post players on the team, this will happen.

Hopefully, we won't play ourselves into a 4 seed and lose in the first or second round.

[precboom]

We aren't going to win them all, the shots aren't going to fall for us every game, and we don't have the depth or enough big men, this isn't the 07 team, but quite a few of the malevolent post were by folks that have posted very few times. New folks with a SOWchant attitude. Maybe I'm wrong, but appeared that way before mod post. Unnecessary, I'll haven't seen that attitude on here later. JMO.

I hate the argument about low post count, as if it somehow proves your relevance. Those with this argument were either non-relevant until they hit some arbitrary post count or started their account with a post count > 0 (don't think so). What is it? Don't confuse a low post count with not being a Gator fan. Some people care not to engage in the banter until it strikes a nerve, which is definitely my case.

I've seen and been complaining about KB's poor shot selection in crunch time for three years now (not necessarily on message boards) and finally felt like sounding off. Kenny is a great player, I'm not trying to take that away from him. His selfishness in the final seconds has cost us games and you can't deny that.

Billy, I believe your profile shows a degree from FSU - are you one of the posters with an "SOW chant attitude" that you referenced above? ; )

[G8RNTN]

this thread is trash. Free throws lost this game. Not one shot

Exactly!!!! Not happy with the final shot selection (not Rosario), but too many missed free throws during the clutch! Pelphry came unglued when Rosario missed his and then PY did also... Can't win road games missing free throws when the game is on the line.:angry:

[tim]

Kenny did get a pretty sweet and-1 to help keep us ahead, like a minute before that shot. But yea I agree I was let down with the drawn up play, not Kenny.

[bullish]

We lost as a team, coaches included. Our inside game, Patrick, opposing teams will all bang him to death, because when he steps to the line, guess what, clang. So to go inside to Patrick with teams knowing this, the results don't justify us getting it to him in a close game. I think the wear and tear of too many minutes is taking down his game.

Someone on here has said that we should take out Patrick in the end of game situations and spread out five 3 pt shooters and keep opposing teams from packing the middle on our pick and roll offense. I guess crazier things have been tried. But right now, close games on the road and we tighten up and force it to the middle or fire off balanced threes. Somehow, I believe we can change, but our coach has to install the changes.

[gulfgator]

Can we sticky this thread to remind us who doesn't know jack about Hoops
Some true mensas showing up in this thread...good grief.

[akaGatorhoops]

I don't think anyone is saying the loss is "Kenny's fault". If we had played and made shots like you said, rebounded like you said, and didn't commit turnovers we wouldn't have needed a last second shot. Unfortunately we did need it and Kenny wasted the possession. In no way, shape, or form is the loss his fault but I think we can still be plenty upset that he continually freelances with the game on the line.

There is a tendency in basketball to focus n the last possessions, and ignore those leading up to the the finale. The truth is, plenty of players took poor shots, made bad decisions or just didn't do their job. But we are stuck talking about Kenny.
Indeed, his was a bad decision.... Aided in part by Scottie's decision to give the ball up so easily high off the arc. The plan was for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason he deferred, and kenny launched his infamous boulder.

[canadagator2]

Just the fact this post is on its 4th page tells you something is not right. I don't think anyone has said Kenny is not a good player and he hasn't put in the effort to be successful. What has been said is he makes bad decisions at the end of halves and games. Would anyone really disagree with that? If you were the coach and you designed a play which wasn't carried out, what would you do with said player? This is something that has gone on for some time now. We all want a team that plays to their ability and when things don't go according to plan we get upset. The fact that he keeps making the same decisions over and over is worrisome.

[REM08]

What I don't quite get is how Kenny has the 5th highest 3pt % on the team, yet has taken more than 50 more 3's than any other player.

I also didn't like the kind of 3 he took. It'd have been much better, even if Kenny takes it, if someone penetrates and kicks.

[precboom]

Just the fact this post is on its 4th page tells you something is not right. I don't think anyone has said Kenny is not a good player and he hasn't put in the effort to be successful. What has been said is he makes bad decisions at the end of halves and games. Would anyone really disagree with that? If you were the coach and you designed a play which wasn't carried out, what would you do with said player? This is something that has gone on for some time now. We all want a team that plays to their ability and when things don't go according to plan we get upset. The fact that he keeps making the same decisions over and over is worrisome.

Well said Canada! Couldn't agree more.

[canadagator2]

Why does Billy allow Kenny to shoot so many more 3's than anyone else? He is not the only one on the team who "wants the ball in their hands" at the end of the game. Some of the blame does fall on Billy's shoulders here because if i'm not mistaken, I don't think I've every seen Kenny benched like Scotty for not doing as "he's told."

[REM08]

Why does Billy allow Kenny to shoot so many more 3's than anyone else? He is not the only one on the team who "wants the ball in their hands" at the end of the game. Some of the blame does fall on Billy's shoulders here because if i'm not mistaken, I don't think I've every seen Kenny benched like Scotty for not doing as "he's told."

Furthermore, he's taken more total shots than anyone on the time - despite Rosario, Murphy, Young, Wilbekin, Yeguette, Frazier and Prather all having a better FG% by at least 6%.

I'm not trying to pile on, just confused by this.

[HALLGATOR]

I've learned a long time ago that more posters show up after a loss than after a win during the course of the season. Multiple pages show little other than a propensity for people to focus more on the negative than on the positive.

[yarmond1]

It's too bad Boynton hasn't opend his eyes as to what is a good a shot and what isn't, unlike Rosario. That was just a terrible shot (chuck) that you would expect out of a freshman, not a 4 year starting senior. Unfortunately therer's too little time left for him to realize this. We just have to ride it out.

[canadagator2]

I disagree HallGator. I've seen many posts after wins in basketball and football that have many more posts then this. However, when one hits a topic that holds water they seem to carry on for awhile. This is only a negative because it rears its ugly head again and again. This team will not go far doing the same thing over and over when it does not work.

[BLING]

I would have liked to have seen a better shot but am not going to fault a senior for wanting the ball in his hands with the game on the line. Give it a rest.

Overall Kenny B *HAS* been taking better shot selections his last two years, than his 1st two years where he was basically a wild man shooting 3's. Now, with an occasional blip, his shots usually are in rhythm of the offense - and you can see him "passing up" on some shots that in his 1st two years without doubt he would have launched. But instead, now he gives up the extra pass.

That being said, that was still a very poor shot selection last night. I have no problem at all with KB, as a senior, wanting to take the game in his hands. I just always, always, hate the PULL UP 3, when there is time on the clock and you are ONLY DOWN 1 POINT. It is a very low % play in that game situation. I think after about the 2 minute mark, it's crunch time and you simply cannot afford to take shots like that.

I don't agree with people calling out KB as "the death of this team", but certainly there are alot of valid points that in late game situations this team needs to do alot better. There needs to be a total emphasis on getting HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS in those situations- don't settle for a jumper. As I pointed out in another thread, it wasn't just KB settling for jumper. Wilbekin settled for several bad shots as well, and even the 3 pointer he made I did not like that shot at all when it went up.

[ApexNC]

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen on this board. Kenny has busted his ass for his coach, his team and his university for almost four years now. He is a tireless worker and a great defender. He's never been in the headlines for off the court problems. He is NOT the reason we haven't made the final four the last two years. He IS one of the main reasons we made the Elite Eight.

[gportgator]

Apex, I agree.

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

A lot of not so bright people on this thread. Why wouldn't you have the ball in the hands of your SENIOR guard in that situation?

[REM08]

A lot of not so bright people on this thread. Why wouldn't you have the ball in the hands of your SENIOR guard in that situation?

Thats not a bad rule of thumb you mention here, unless of course, the senior guard doesn't actually give the team the best chance of success.

I think some of you are being a LITTLE too sensitive to what you're perceiving as criticism. Keep in mind, basketball criticism of how a player is playing doesn't have anything to do with critiquing the character or personality of the actual human being. We connect the two too often.

Its VERY possible that a guy who is responsible for much of his team's success is ALSO, at times, somewhat responsible for a moment that did not translate to team success.

In another thread, I posted quotes from Billy and from Kenny, after the game, that show just how far apart they were on their perspective of Kenny's 3 pointer.

[gatorich]

In any close game you can pick and choose plays where the game would have been tilted in your favor. If you really wanted to you could find multiple plays by each starter.

Yet the fact remains we lose every single close game. It isn't just Walker, KB, free throws, refs, etc. it's an all of the above random combination of it in those close games.

The thing is, don't you think other top teams face adversity? Don't you think they have games where their shot isn't falling, the other team is hot, the refs are one sided, etc? Of course they do. We do not have a monopoly on imperfect games.

The one constant is our choking at the end of games. The statistics show if two teams are equal each team should win 50% of close games. If your team is better than the opposition you should win more than that, say 65%. That's where we should fall. Yet we don't. We fall to 0%, because the team gets substantially worse as the clock ticks and the game remains tight.

We need to solve that problem, not isolated problems.

The problem is that we never win them.

Wow, Elete Eight the last two years....15? years with 20 wins or more....I guess I didn't realized we sucked so bad.

[wci347]

Hopefully Boynton will be able to produce in the tournament where he- along with Murphy, Rosario, Young, Wilberkin, Prather and Yeguete,- will have a major advantage over every other team in the tournament.

Statistically, Fraizer and Boynton's numbers are not even close, and we probably win two of the four games we lost with Fraizer only taking a percentage of Boynton's missed shots (6-28 from 3 in the four losses). But come tournament time there will be an acute advantage to us having 7 of our 8 players with one year tournament experience and 4 of our 8 with two years tournament experience.

We need to encourage him as much as possible and get his mind ready for the tournament.

[UFish]

As far as shot selection and overall decision making, that was one of the worst offensive games I've seen Boynton play. So to say he will be the death of this team based on last night would be a strong exaggeration in my opinion.

He took two really dumb shots down the stretch and surely he's partial to blame for the loss but we were also outrebounded, shot poorly at the foul line (including missing at least two front ends of one and ones), and we took way too many threes for a road game against a team as talented as Missouri.

[akaGatorhoops]

Just the fact this post is on its 4th page tells you something is not right. I don't think anyone has said Kenny is not a good player and he hasn't put in the effort to be successful. What has been said is he makes bad decisions at the end of halves and games. Would anyone really disagree with that? If you were the coach and you designed a play which wasn't carried out, what would you do with said player? This is something that has gone on for some time now. We all want a team that plays to their ability and when things don't go according to plan we get upset. The fact that he keeps making the same decisions over and over is worrisome.

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.

[precboom]

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

[TampaGatorFan]

We missed 23 3-pointers last night...TWENTY THREE...as well as six FTs, including three front ends of 1+1s, which means we actually left 9 points at the stripe.

Poor shooting did us in last night. This game should have been a 15-20 point win for us.

[precboom]

We missed 23 3-pointers last night...TWENTY THREE...as well as six FTs, including three front ends of 1+1s, which means we actually left 9 points at the stripe.

Poor shooting did us in last night. This game should have been a 15-20 point win for us.

Even more of a reason to take the appropriate shot (i.e. a three or a two) when it's crunch time.

[REM08]

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

IMO, these are 4 good points.

[patsyruth2008]

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen on this board. Kenny has busted his ass for his coach, his team and his university for almost four years now. He is a tireless worker and a great defender. He's never been in the headlines for off the court problems. He is NOT the reason we haven't made the final four the last two years. He IS one of the main reasons we made the Elite Eight.

Apex;

I agree 110%, however I will say that it is my opinion that next year's team will miss Mike Rosario and Eric Murphy WAY more than Kenny and I NEVER thought I would say (or type) something like that.

[HALLGATOR]

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.


It seems what you have been saying is falling on deaf ears. Coach was not pleased with the way things turned out because it was not the way the play was drawn up. In the end he is still the coach and he must deal with the reasons why but Billy sure didn't design the play that was run.

[HALLGATOR]

I disagree HallGator. I've seen many posts after wins in basketball and football that have many more posts then this. However, when one hits a topic that holds water they seem to carry on for awhile. This is only a negative because it rears its ugly head again and again. This team will not go far doing the same thing over and over when it does not work.

You are welcome to disagree all you want to but what I wrote was fact.

[akaGatorhoops]

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

I am not sure this contradicts anything I have said. I acknowledged it as a poor shot. I also said it is a reoccurring scenario... And one the proceeds Boynton. You could plug in the names "Roberson" or "Walker" or several others and this thread would be a recreation of years past. As I said... If Billy's instructions are being ignored, he needs to find out why. If he is affording too much player freedom in the scenarios, perhaps that needs to changed
But yeah, I would not disagree with any of your 4 points.

[Jaggator]

I've learned a long time ago that more posters show up after a loss than after a win during the course of the season. Multiple pages show little other than a propensity for people to focus more on the negative than on the positive.


Agreed! That's because they use message boards to release pent up feelings of frustration rather than beating their dog. In general people have a propensity to say and do stupid things when it doesn't go the way of their liking.

[canadagator2]

It's wonderful we are having a discussion and people feel passionate about basketball. Wether you agree one way or the other at least people feel comfortable to voice an opinion on this board. I read these boards everyday and some times it amazes me just how few threads there are discussing the aspects of the game. Maybe I should particpate more:) The fact of the matter is with everything everyone else has stated, Kenny continues to take "bad" shots in crunch time and usually costs us the game. For what ever reason, this is, a reoccurring theme. I don't have the answer, however, I sure hope Billy and the boys figure it out soon.

[regurgigator]

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

Are you saying Item 1 was Wilbekin's conscious strategy to pass the ball to Boynton so Boynton could pass it back? I don't think so. That would be a waste of several seconds, because (regarding Item 2) you want to get your shot up as quickly as possible in that scenario, so that if you miss, you have time to foul and run another play. As it was, Boynton's shot was just about too late to allow us to foul and run another play.

A play had to be made without much more delay, so Boynton took a shot he's made many times before. It was just a little bit left, so it missed. (Apparently Boynton thought the defender was playing too far off him to have a good chance at getting by him on a drive. Apparently, Wilbekin didn't feel he could get by his man either.) I'm over it. On to the next game.

Item 3 is fair, and if Donovan can look at the tape and show Wilbekin or Boynton a possible play they should have made, then I'm sure that will be discussed at length. Reviewing the last play, I didn't see any specific openings that I thought either player obviously missed. Maybe some screening action (on ball and/or off ball) would be helpful in those situations.

[Swampmaster]

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen on this board. Kenny has busted his ass for his coach, his team and his university for almost four years now.

that's not the issue---he works hard, but shouldn't be taking off balance 3 point shots with the game on the line

[msa3]

Are you saying Item 1 was Wilbekin's conscious strategy to pass the ball to Boynton so Boynton could pass it back?

Actually, that's pretty common, to see how the defense reacts. If SW's man goes to cover KB or shades him to cut off a lane, more room for SW to drive. That's why he asked for it back, because a bit of space had been created.

Instead, Boynton took another hero shot, the kind of shot that, if he makes it, gets him on SportsCenter. He did it a minute earlier -- UF needed a basket, and instead of waiting to run the offense -- or include any of his teammates -- he just pulled up and shot. EW used to do the same thing, so did Roberson. Maybe all scoring guards do. But I don't have any doubt that once the ball touched KB's hand, he was going to shoot it and put the dagger in himself. That's a shooter's mentality, after all. But it's maddening to watch.

That would be a waste of several seconds, because (regarding Item 2) you want to get your shot up as quickly as possible in that scenario, so that if you miss, you have time to foul and run another play.i

That's doesn't make sense. You shoot with enough time to maybe get a rebound, but not with so much time they have a chance to get their own play off. Even if it had gone in, Mizzou would have had six or seven seconds to run their own play. It was a bad decision all the way around. He got the ball and shot because he wanted to take the shot. He always wants to take that shot. The problem is, he very often misses it.

[regurgigator]

Actually, that's pretty common, to see how the defense reacts. If SW's man goes to cover KB or shades him to cut off a lane, more room for SW to drive. That's why he asked for it back, because a bit of space had been created.

Instead, Boynton took another hero shot, the kind of shot that, if he makes it, gets him on SportsCenter. He did it a minute earlier -- UF needed a basket, and instead of waiting to run the offense -- or include any of his teammates -- he just pulled up and shot. EW used to do the same thing, so did Roberson. Maybe all scoring guards do. But I don't have any doubt that once the ball touched KB's hand, he was going to shoot it and put the dagger in himself. That's a shooter's mentality, after all. But it's maddening to watch.



That's doesn't make sense. You shoot with enough time to maybe get a rebound, but not with so much time they have a chance to get their own play off. Even if it had gone in, Mizzou would have had six or seven seconds to run their own play. It was a bad decision all the way around. He got the ball and shot because he wanted to take the shot. He always wants to take that shot. The problem is, he very often misses it.

Disagree. Most of the time most teams want to "lengthen the game" if they're down, not hold for a last shot.

[msa3]

Disagree. Most of the time most teams want to "lengthen the game" if they're down, not hold for a last shot.

If you're down five, sure. But down one? Maybe we see different games, but I very rarely see a team intentionally give another team a shot at winning the game by shooting with more than one or two seconds on the clock.

I guess if you go into your last shot expecting to miss it, then what you're saying makes sense. But if you're expecting to miss it, you probably ought not take it.