Grad student sues over recieving a C-plus claiming it cost her 1.3 Million

[PSGator66]

Can you imagine if this student won this case the precedents that it would set!

http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/education/pa-graduate-student-sues-over-c-plus/nWNTc/

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Well I mean you can literally file a suit for anything.

[PSGator66]

Orangeblue - you sure can and I think in Europe if you lose this type of suit you can be moneterly punished.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Orangeblue - you sure can and I think in Europe if you lose this type of suit you can be moneterly punished.

Same in the U.S., it's just up to the damaged to file countersuit.

[wgbgator]

I have a lot of friends who teach college level with great stories about ridiculous student grade appeals, but I'd have to say none of them have ever been sued. Usually there are multiple appeals within the university (where the teacher basically demonstrates/does the math why they received a grade) if the student is really determined to challenge a grade. If you teach its a good idea to keep grades/student work for at least a few years beyond the course. You never know when you'll have to prove to some entitled idiot why they suck. :)

[gatorman_07732]

I have a lot of friends who teach college level with great stories about ridiculous student grade appeals, but I'd have to say none of them have ever been sued. Usually there are multiple appeals within the university (where the teacher basically demonstrates/does the math why they received a grade) if the student is really determined to challenge a grade. If you teach its a good idea to keep grades/student work for at least a few years beyond the course. You never know when you'll have to prove to some entitled idiot why they suck. :)

University's have also dumbed it down as well. I can tell you my brother was approached by superiors to do that very thing.

[ThePlayer]

She wants to be a "licensed therapist" to do what?
Clearly she needs some therapy of her own.

Rule #1...never piss off your instructor or their learning institution.

[gatorman_07732]

She wants to be a "licensed therapist" to do what?
Clearly she needs some therapy of her own.

I suspect many therapists lay on someone else's couch.

[wgbgator]

University's have also dumbed it down as well. I can tell you my brother was approached by superiors to do that very thing.

Well, that's because the student is essentially a customer. That's part of what fuels this. Universities cater to students every whim, so on some level I do see a certain logic in a student wanting whatever grade they want. They're treated like a pampered paying customer almost everywhere else on (and off) campus.

[Itssaul]

Well I mean you can literally file a suit for anything.

I'm filing a suit for revealing that kind of information.

[gatorev12]

It's a ridiculous lawsuit, to be honest. Honestly hope defense counsel has some balls and files for sanctions against the plaintiff's attorney on this one for wasting everyone's time.

[tegator80]

As long as the benefits (potential windfall for the plaintiff and especially the lawyer) outweigh the potential pitfalls (plaintiff pays court costs, lawyer gets first reprimand towards disbarment) then it will continue unabated. Some industrious people would consider the lawyer an innovator (read profit maker). We need tort reform. But just another thing that needs fixing but won't be because of the lobbying efforts.

[wgbgator]

As long as the benefits (potential windfall for the plaintiff and especially the lawyer) outweigh the potential pitfalls (plaintiff pays court costs, lawyer gets first reprimand towards disbarment) then it will continue unabated. Some industrious people would consider the lawyer an innovator (read profit maker). We need tort reform. But just another thing that needs fixing but won't be because of the lobbying efforts.

I think the problem is someone refusing to accept they got a not so good grade. After all, the lawyer is just someone hired to advocate a dumb POV. "Tort reform" isnt going to fix that. People having dumb POVs and willing to fight for it, that is.

[Gatorrick22]

Can you imagine if this student won this case the precedents that it would set!

http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/education/pa-graduate-student-sues-over-c-plus/nWNTc/

So, now even college students feel entitled to something they do not deserve? Wow this country needs to get some sort of tort sanity back from the crazies.

[tegator80]

I think the problem is someone refusing to accept they got a not so good grade. After all, the lawyer is just someone hired to advocate a dumb POV. "Tort reform" isnt going to fix that. People having dumb POVs and willing to fight for it, that is.

My point was the pitfalls. If the plaintiff pays for the court costs then they are more likely to reflect, especially after someone brings that up to them. And if a lawyer brings up cases with no merit and gets away with it (nothing ventured, nothing gained) then they will continue to be available. Get a strike and watch their doors slam when these idiots start coming around. JMHO

[wygator]

Her dad's a professor at the school and he's weighing in on her behalf. From the article:

Stephen Thode, the plaintiff's father and a longtime finance professor at Lehigh, testified on his daughter's behalf and said her participation score was highly irregular.
"I have never heard of a case, not just at Lehigh, where a student achieved a zero in class participation where they attended and participated in every class," he said.

Of course, after bombing in the class, she could have transferred to another school and tried to enter a different program. But since her dad is a prof, she was probably getting the education free at Lehigh and they didn't want to foot the bill for a different school

[wygator]

I think a lot of people who go into psych have issues of their own, thus the interest.

[wgbgator]

Her dad's a professor at the school and he's weighing in on her behalf. From the article:



Wow.

If the teacher has a good rubric, it should be pretty easy to demonstrate why they got a 0. If not, then I would be surprised that the Dept would not have already sided with the student if the 0 was completely subjective and attendance/participation was documented.

[Gatorrick22]

Maybe that defendant didn't like the girls father?

[gatorev12]

People: this case has nothing to do with torts. The lawyer's suing under breach of contract and discrimination based upon the girl's advocacy for gay marriage--and neither cause of action are considered torts.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

People: this case has nothing to do with torts. The lawyer's suing under breach of contract and discrimination based upon the girl's advocacy for gay marriage--and neither cause of action are considered torts.

yeah that had me scratching my head, too

[Gatorrick22]

People: this case has nothing to do with torts. The lawyer's suing under breach of contract and discrimination based upon the girl's advocacy for gay marriage--and neither cause of action are considered torts.

And.... so you think she deserves any money, more than lawyers fees, one free semester with another professor, and court costs? if yes, then we need tort reform.

[wgbgator]

And.... so you think she deserves any money, more than lawyers fees, one free semester with another professor, and court costs? if yes, then we need tort reform.

He didnt say anything about the merits of the case, just that "tort" did not apply in this instance, responding to people talking about tort reform, which would do nothing in to stop such lawsuits.

[g8rjd]

Can you imagine if this student won this case the precedents that it would set!

http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/education/pa-graduate-student-sues-over-c-plus/nWNTc/

Trial courts don't create precedent.

[MichiGator2002]

Any thoughts on making it an actual crime (misdemeanor) to file a frivolous, nuisance, or harassing suit? See what kind of disingenuous ads John Morgan comes up with for that.

[Gatorrick22]

He didnt say anything about the merits of the case, just that "tort" did not apply in this instance.

What I'm saying is that this and all cases like it need to be reviewed for various reasons.

But, in this case itself - I do believe she was wronged, just not 1.3 million worth of wronged.

[g8rjd]

Any thoughts on making it an actual crime (misdemeanor) to file a frivolous, nuisance, or harassing suit? See what kind of disingenuous ads John Morgan comes up with for that.

I know that the public thinks almost all lawsuits are frivilous, but typically, the financial penalty of having to pay the other side's attorneys' fees (and sometimes applying it to the attorney) is pretty disuading in the real world.

[Gatorrick22]

I know that the public thinks almost all lawsuits are frivilous, but typically, the financial penalty of having to pay the other side's attorneys' fees (and sometimes applying it to the attorney) is pretty disuading in the real world.

I find this to be somewhat incredulous.

[JerseyGator01]

I believe you don't have to pay the other side's legal fees in Jersey if you lose. That's why liberal lawyers love it here and the rest are moving out in droves.

[gatorev12]

And.... so you think she deserves any money, more than lawyers fees, one free semester with another professor, and court costs? if yes, then we need tort reform.

In actuality, I think this case is pretty frivolous and if I were defense counsel, I'd take a hard line to not only get it thrown out of court, but also request attorneys fees and potentially sanctions for plaintiff's counsel.

But none of that changes the fact that the case has absolutely nothing to do with torts--and talking about "tort reform" in this instance is a complete red herring.

[gatorev12]

I know that the public thinks almost all lawsuits are frivilous, but typically, the financial penalty of having to pay the other side's attorneys' fees (and sometimes applying it to the attorney) is pretty disuading in the real world.

It hasn't been my experience that too many attorneys press very hard to get attorneys' fees and/or to sanction opposing counsel--even if there are strong grounds for one or the other (or both). One, not many judges like granting motions to that effect..and two, it's a sure-fire way to gain notoriety within the legal community in your area.

Admittedly, I haven't been around in the profession for nearly as long as some of our more experienced legal eagles around here--but that's just my personal observation.

[MastaG8r]

I suspect many therapists lay on someone else's couch.Actually I think therapists are all but required to get peer counseling occasionally, if not regularly.

If it's true that this girl received a zero in class participation even though she attended and participated in every class, that does seem sort of odd. And her father is a professor at the university? Maybe some sort of rivalry or feud between the professors? Although if that was the case it seems odd she would've taken the class. Still, though. A zero?

[kygator]

Any thoughts on making it an actual crime (misdemeanor) to file a frivolous, nuisance, or harassing suit? See what kind of disingenuous ads John Morgan comes up with for that.

I thought I got away from his commercials when I moved to Kentucky. Now he is advertising in Lexington too.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I find this to be somewhat incredulous.

Incredulous?

[gregthegator]

I think she wins....and gets $1....:laugh:

In one of my class's at UF in my 2nd year...the 1st paper I turned in got D-

Dropped class and re-took next semester...turned in THE EXACT same paper...(dif. prof./T.A. mind ya)...got A+ and set THE curve.

Personal agenda's should NOT be allowed by THE school.

Pretty dang obvious THERE WAS one involved here.:whoa:

[Matthanuf06]

A 0 for a participation score when she attended every class? Seems odd. Such an odd score hopefully means the teacher has good documentation.

[gatorev12]

A 0 for a participation score when she attended every class? Seems odd. Such an odd score hopefully means the teacher has good documentation.

If the teacher had a good reason for it--who are we to second-guess?

My junior year at UF, I took a history course on the British Empire. I'd lived in England for a couple years growing up, so it was a piece of cake for me. I showed up to every class, usually chipped in with insightful questions/comments, got an A on every test, and an A on the term paper.

This particular professor liked to set appointments during the study week before finals to give every student their term paper and discuss their final grade. Instead of getting an A+ in the class, the professor gave me an A-. On the paper itself, there was a note saying "While I know you always came to class and participated with some great comments, I struggled to give you an A+ because I also know you brought the Alligator to class every day and worked on the crossword puzzle." After reading it, she quickly jumped in and said "I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but I honestly felt I should give the A+ to the person who worked harder in the class for it, even if you had the higher scores on the test and paper."

I suppose I could have bitched at her or complained to the department. But she was right: I did half-ass it in that class and her final grade was meant to instruct, not to punish.

This girl could have similarly learned a valuable lesson, but chose to be a self-absorbed douchebag. I don't feel sorry for her and she deserves to be ridiculed for this for quite some time.

[lacuna]

nm

Some things are better left unsaid.

[corpgator]

If the teacher had a good reason for it--who are we to second-guess?

My junior year at UF, I took a history course on the British Empire. I'd lived in England for a couple years growing up, so it was a piece of cake for me. I showed up to every class, usually chipped in with insightful questions/comments, got an A on every test, and an A on the term paper.

This particular professor liked to set appointments during the study week before finals to give every student their term paper and discuss their final grade. Instead of getting an A+ in the class, the professor gave me an A-. On the paper itself, there was a note saying "While I know you always came to class and participated with some great comments, I struggled to give you an A+ because I also know you brought the Alligator to class every day and worked on the crossword puzzle." After reading it, she quickly jumped in and said "I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but I honestly felt I should give the A+ to the person who worked harder in the class for it, even if you had the higher scores on the test and paper."

I suppose I could have bitched at her or complained to the department. But she was right: I did half-ass it in that class and her final grade was meant to instruct, not to punish.

This girl could have similarly learned a valuable lesson, but chose to be a self-absorbed douchebag. I don't feel sorry for her and she deserves to be ridiculed for this for quite some time.

That's a poor way to teach a lesson. She should have pulled you aside and told you to stop or your grade would be lowered. A teacher can't just give lower grades because the class was too easy especially when there's no mention of said rule for lowering your grade beforehand.

It's really the colleges' faults for requiring ridiculous classes for people who don't need them.

[gregthegator]

If the teacher had a good reason for it--who are we to second-guess?

This girl could have similarly learned a valuable lesson, but chose to be a self-absorbed douchebag. I don't feel sorry for her and she deserves to be ridiculed for this for quite some time.

I think my scenerio more likely than yours...and ANY lawyer who ASSumes stuff...such as IF or "could have similarly learned"....and then makes character judgements w/out ALL the facts...certainly wouldn't represent moi.

[DaveFla]

People: this case has nothing to do with torts. The lawyer's suing under breach of contract and discrimination based upon the girl's advocacy for gay marriage--and neither cause of action are considered torts.


Is her name Sandra Fluke?

[gatorev12]

That's a poor way to teach a lesson. She should have pulled you aside and told you to stop or your grade would be lowered. A teacher can't just give lower grades because the class was too easy especially when there's no mention of said rule for lowering your grade beforehand.

It's really the colleges' faults for requiring ridiculous classes for people who don't need them.

Class participation will always be a subjective metric for grading someone--and if that was the difference between myself and the other student (all other things being equal), I'm going to be self-critical and admit I didn't try nearly as hard as I could have in that class. Only one person could get the A+ and if she went with a student who worked harder, I could hardly blame her.

One of my majors was History, so it counted towards my degree and not as a gen-ed requirement. And yes, I intentionally selected that class because I knew it'd be easy. :laugh:

[gatorev12]

I think my scenerio more likely than yours...and ANY lawyer who ASSumes stuff...such as IF or "could have similarly learned"....and then makes character judgements w/out ALL the facts...certainly wouldn't represent moi.

I've no doubt certain professors/teachers have agendas and/or biases towards students. My mom told me a story about how she got a lower grade in college from one of her teachers on a paper--and solely due to the fact she was a foreign student from a country that professor happened to dislike. The teacher admitted to it later on and asked for forgiveness, saying she'd change the grade; but I don't think my mom really cared since she was graduating and it didn't affect her overall GPA.

Sorry for your experience though.

I'm not representing her, so I don't have all the facts and never said I did. It would appear you're just as guilty at ASSuming things as well. What I do know reflects extremely poorly on the girl and the father in this situation--and the judge in the case said the same thing too, btw. The teacher said the primary reason she made that *subjective* call was because the student failed to demonstrate the ability to listen...which is absolutely vital in that career path. I knew a few people in law school who washed out after their first year for various reasons--but mostly because they couldn't handle various aspects of the curriculum. Advanced studies are *supposed* to weed-out people who aren't cut out for the career path for one reason or another. Suing the school is a petty and extremely immature action to take.

[corpgator]

Class participation will always be a subjective metric for grading someone--and if that was the difference between myself and the other student (all other things being equal), I'm going to be self-critical and admit I didn't try nearly as hard as I could have in that class. Only one person could get the A+ and if she went with a student who worked harder, I could hardly blame her.

One of my majors was History, so it counted towards my degree and not as a gen-ed requirement. And yes, I intentionally selected that class because I knew it'd be easy. :laugh:

I see your point of view, but she couldn't show you a hard reason for the grade. I tried significantly less than most in a lot of my classes, but that didn't mean I deserved a lesser grade. I worked smarter, not harder.