Idaho bill would require students to read 'Atlas Shrugged'

[mocgator]

Finally... the kids will actually learn something...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/07/symbolic-idaho-bill-would-require-students-to-read-atlas-shrugged/

In a symbolic move to teach “personal responsibility,” an Idaho lawmaker has proposed requiring every high school student in the state to read Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged.”

State Sen. John Goedde introduced legislation on Tuesday that would require Idaho secondary students to read and pass an examination on the iconic 1957 novel touted by conservatives like Rep. Paul Ryan and Rush Limbaugh.

"However, every student in America would benefit from reading Atlas Shrugged," Brook said in a statement to FoxNews.com. "Not only does the book explain, in economic, political and philosophical terms, the challenges facing this country, but it also shows what's required to restore the ideals of the Founding Fathers. Atlas Shrugged is not a Republican or conservative book, but an American book: a hymn to the ideals of individualism, capitalism, and the free human mind."

[rivergator]

I think it'd be great if the Idaho legislature would require students to read the favorite books of each of the 105 legislators. That's exactly how govt should work.

[wgbgator]

I like that the "symbolic move" of teaching personal responsibility involves the government requiring you to read something. I'm glad conservatives have finanlly come around (again) to the idea that mandates can enforce personal responsibility. I expect no further objections to Obamacare now. :)

[mocgator]

I like that the "symbolic move" of teaching personal responsibility involves the government requiring you to read something. I'm glad conservatives have finanlly come around (again) to the idea that mandates can enforce personal responsibility. I expect no further objections to Obamacare now. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsbKGddj8eA&feature=youtu.be

[MichiGator2002]

I am sure wgb was morally outraged by the required reading list before this.

[rpmGator]

They already have more nuts in Idaho than potato's...

If you want to help kids, give them non-fiction books.

[wgbgator]

I am sure wgb was morally outraged by the required reading list before this.

Oh, I was just making a humorous observation. I had to read Ayn Rand's Anthem in HS and look at how I turned out. People get too caught up in this required books nonsense.

[gatornana]

Finally... the kids will actually learn something...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/07/symbolic-idaho-bill-would-require-students-to-read-atlas-shrugged/

In a symbolic move to teach “personal responsibility,” an Idaho lawmaker has proposed requiring every high school student in the state to read Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged.”

State Sen. John Goedde introduced legislation on Tuesday that would require Idaho secondary students to read and pass an examination on the iconic 1957 novel touted by conservatives like Rep. Paul Ryan and Rush Limbaugh.

"However, every student in America would benefit from reading Atlas Shrugged," Brook said in a statement to FoxNews.com. "Not only does the book explain, in economic, political and philosophical terms, the challenges facing this country, but it also shows what's required to restore the ideals of the Founding Fathers. Atlas Shrugged is not a Republican or conservative book, but an American book: a hymn to the ideals of individualism, capitalism, and the free human mind."

There should be an additional chapter at the end telling the reader that the author's values and philosophy was thrown out the window when she became aged and ill.

[Burke]

What nonsense.

Leftists simply can't debate her ideas. All they do is dream up personal attacks.

And censor attacks on their own BS.

[gatornana]

It's a fact, not an attack, that Rand put aside her values in her old age to collect SS and medicare.

[108]

I like that the "symbolic move" of teaching personal responsibility involves the government requiring you to read something. I'm glad conservatives have finanlly come around (again) to the idea that mandates can enforce personal responsibility. I expect no further objections to Obamacare now. :)

that is pretty rich in irony isn't it

:cry:

[OaktownGator]

A balanced reading list that includes Atlas Shrugged, and includes intelligent debate on the meaning of the books, and pros and cons for how we live our lives individually, and implications for public policy would be a very good thing.

But it should be a free flow of ideas that encourages critical thinking, rather than taking the authors' works as gospel.

I could be wrong but I rather doubt the proponent of this legislation is looking at it from that perspective.

[Spurffelbow833]

I think it'd be great if the Idaho legislature would require students to read the favorite books of each of the 105 legislators. That's exactly how govt should work.

Of course, the legislators wouldn't be required to read each other's books. Just the peasants. Their time means nothing.

[gatornana]

A balanced reading list that includes Atlas Shrugged, and includes intelligent debate on the meaning of the books, and pros and cons for how we live our lives individually, and implications for public policy would be a very good thing.

But it should be a free flow of ideas that encourages critical thinking, rather than taking the authors' works as gospel.

I could be wrong but I rather doubt the proponent of this legislation is looking at it from that perspective.

Well put.

[Emmitto]

Just make them watch the movies (well, maybe just the first one; two might be entering cruel and unusual territory.)

[Gatorstooth]

Forcing a kid to read a particular book is a great way to teach them to hate that book.

[brainstorm]

BTW Burke, congratulations on being elected to the Idaho state senate.

[mocgator]

Atlas Shrugged >> Heather Has Two Mommies

[Matthanuf06]

It's a fact, not an attack, that Rand put aside her values in her old age to collect SS and medicare.

If you pay in then there is no contradiction with getting your money back

[dangolegators]

I'm sure the kids will really enjoy all those rough sex scenes in Atlas Shrugged. Dagny likes it rough and her boyfriends are more than happy to oblige her.

[kygator]

Can we get a Florida legislator to introduce a bill to make "Too Hot" threads required reading for all students in Florida?

[rpmGator]

I see a religiuos group suing as a response to a pro atheism book being madated. It happens all the time the other way around.

[mocgator]

Can we get a Florida legislator to introduce a bill to make "Too Hot" threads required reading for all students in Florida?

+1

[gator421]

It would probably be better if they made a law that said the students had to read anything.

[rpmGator]

Rand followers believe the way to individualism and a free human mind is by mandating a book.

Ironic.

[mocgator]

Rand followers believe the way to individualism and a free human mind is by mandating a book.

Ironic.

Atlas Shrugged >> Heather Has Two Mommies

[wgbgator]

Does Heather Has Two Mommies feature long winded speeches and rough sex? If no, then maybe Moc is right.

[HALLGATOR]

Even if required I would bet only a very small percentage of students would actually read the whole book. I have always been an avid reader and found the book to be tiresome.

[cocodrilo]

an American book: a hymn to the ideals of individualism, capitalism, and the free human mind."

Propaganda, anyone? "Capitalism" and "free human mind" are sort of oxymoronic. Just look at today's big capitalistic corporations and the stranglehold they have on the media (they own it), to control what "human minds" can know. Unless, of course, those minds seek truth on their own (a form of "individualism"), which is dangerous. (A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So is too much knowledge. The individual must know his or her place.)

[oragator1]

What is with the trend lately for the "less government" crowd trying hard to get government to do more of their bidding lately? Either they want heavy handed government out of our lives or they don't, but they can't say "we like more government when it espouses conservative values", it's a pretty glaring contradiction.

[Matthanuf06]

What is with the trend lately for the "less government" crowd trying hard to get government to do more of their bidding lately? Either they want heavy handed government out of our lives or they don't, but they can't say "we like more government when it espouses conservative values", it's a pretty glaring contradiction.

The schools are already public.

[oragator1]

The schools are already public.

But instead of more mandates, wouldn't the conservative or libertarian approach be to put less restrictions on what teachers can put in their curriculum and not more?

[gator10010]

But instead of more mandates, wouldn't the conservative or libertarian approach be to put less restrictions on what teachers can put in their curriculum and not more?

You are using the terms conservative and libertarian very loosely painting a lot of people with a broad brush.

As an individual who believes in limited government I don't even think we should have public high schools.

[antny]

Can we get a Florida legislator to introduce a bill to make "Too Hot" threads required reading for all students in Florida?

It would illustrate how absurd partisan politics are if nothing else

[Matthanuf06]

But instead of more mandates, wouldn't the conservative or libertarian approach be to put less restrictions on what teachers can put in their curriculum and not more?

No. The conservative/libertarian approach would be to not have public schools at all, and have your kids to to the school that you approve of.

Since we don't have the choice to spend our money to have our child attend the school that we want, we might as well try to influence the school that our children attend that we already pay for.

[reformedgator]

Can we get a Florida legislator to introduce a bill to make "Too Hot" threads required reading for all students in Florida?

Why not? The pool of ignorance is wide & deep. We have room for a few more.

[OaktownGator]

No. The conservative/libertarian approach would be to not have public schools at all, and have your kids to to the school that you approve of.

Since we don't have the choice to spend our money to have our child attend the school that we want, we might as well try to influence the school that our children attend that we already pay for.
Sure we have choice... we don't have to put our kids in public schools.

But I understand wanting to leverage what we're already paying for... and influence it.

[Matthanuf06]

Sure we have choice... we don't have to put our kids in public schools.

But I understand wanting to leverage what we're already paying for... and influence it.

Sure, but we already pay for it. Id love to send my kids to private school, but I can't pay for a school that he won't even attend. Maybe one day...

[Spurffelbow833]

Did they make sure everybody who is expected to read it can actually read? Didn't think so.

[OaktownGator]

Sure, but we already pay for it. Id love to send my kids to private school, but I can't pay for a school that he won't even attend. Maybe one day...
You pay a certain amount in taxes regardless of where your kids go to school (same for any aspect of govt whether or not you use the service or even agree with it).

So school becomes an investment decision on your part... "free" public school (that probably requires significant additional support for extracurricular programs, etc), or home school or private school options.

Often, public schools are not a bad choice in that light even if you can afford private school options. Depends on the public school and the relative value of the private options. And your ability to pay of course.

[FearNoSpear]

If you pay in then there is no contradiction with getting your money back

Exactly.

[HALLGATOR]

Exactly.

I've been waiting for some posters who usually take exception to this idea to chime in.

[cocodrilo]

Forcing a kid to read a particular book is a great way to teach them to hate that book.

I had to read Silas Marner. I don't know how I did it, just like I don't know how I passed trigonometry at UF.

[cocodrilo]

Does Heather Has Two Mommies feature long winded speeches and rough sex? If no, then maybe Moc is right.

I didn't know there was rough sex in Atlas Shrugged. I'm not going to read the whole thing. Can someone just give me the page numbers?

[co_gator89]

It would have to be abridged wouldn't it? That thing is massive and a lot of kids would lose interest.

One book I really hope they still aren't making kids read is Great Expectations. That book ruined me for a long time. You can't do this to kids. Stop force-feeding them bullshit.

[NJG8tor]

I had to read Silas Marner. I don't know how I did it, just like I don't know how I passed trigonometry at UF.

I actually liked that one. I didnt expect to like it, but I did. The worst was "A Separate Peace." That was crap. I hated "The Scarlett Letter" too.

[NJG8tor]

I have never thought much of required reading lists anyway. The classics are there for those who are interested. I read a lot of fiction, mostly old books; but I dont see the necessity in much formal study. I'm willing to bet I have read more than the overwhelming majority of people who out earn me. And although life isnt only about money, if they are supporting themselves, who's to say they really need to read.

[Spurffelbow833]

It would have to be abridged wouldn't it? That thing is massive and a lot of kids would lose interest.

Well, then, those kids who fail the test need to be put on Ritalin. Get with the program!

Objectivism is a cult, complete with a charismatic leader, however dead she may be. Those in the Idaho legislature who are opposed to this bill should be raising that concern very loudly.

[Lawdog88]

It would have to be abridged wouldn't it? That thing is massive and a lot of kids would lose interest.

One book I really hope they still aren't making kids read is Great Expectations. That book ruined me for a long time. You can't do this to kids. Stop force-feeding them bullshit.


Cliff's Notes version would be: People are greedy and selfish; you are one too.

Next.

[Gatormb]

They already have more nuts in Idaho than potato's...

If you want to help kids, give them non-fiction books.

Why not prophetic?

[neisgator]

But instead of more mandates, wouldn't the conservative or libertarian approach be to put less restrictions on what teachers can put in their curriculum and not more?

Interesting.

How about just take the public out of public schools?

[brainstorm]

Conservative - no.
Libertarian - yes.

[DaveFla]

Even if required I would bet only a very small percentage of students would actually read the whole book. I have always been an avid reader and found the book to be tiresome.

Same here... I quit reading it about 1/3 the way through. I couldn't stay awake.

[altalias]

It would have to be abridged wouldn't it? That thing is massive and a lot of kids would lose interest.

One book I really hope they still aren't making kids read is Great Expectations. That book ruined me for a long time. You can't do this to kids. Stop force-feeding them bullshit.

Ironically, I am re-reading Great Expectations right now, simply for enjoyment.

[HALLGATOR]

Same here... I quit reading it about 1/3 the way through. I couldn't stay awake.

I can understand why. I made myself finish it up for some reason.

[HALLGATOR]

On a separate note I have been reading the unabridged version of Les Misérables for years and I'm still not through it. Every once in awhile I'll pick it up and read some more then put it back down. It is on my bucket list to finish up though.

[DaveFla]

I didn't know there was rough sex in Atlas Shrugged. I'm not going to read the whole thing. Can someone just give me the page numbers?

You will have to ask wb for his copy. Evidently he has the pages highlighted for you.

[lpjax]

Atlas Shrugged is a bloated piece of crap, and this is coming from a libertarian. I'm tired of this book being used as a bench mark. If I was to recommend something for a 16 year old to read it would be The Law by Frederic Bastiat

[HALLGATOR]

Atlas Shrugged is a bloated piece of crap, and this is coming from a libertarian. I'm tired of this book being used as a bench mark. If I was to recommend something for a 16 year old to read it would be The Law by Frederic Bastiat

How about The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith?

[Lawdog88]

On a separate note I have been reading the unabridged version of Les Misérables for years and I'm still not through it. Every once in awhile I'll pick it up and read some more then put it back down. It is on my bucket list to finish up though.


I can loan you my Classics Illustrated version, if you need some pix. :laugh:

[OaktownGator]

You guys trying to deny our kids the joys of Mistress Rand?! :joecool:

[HALLGATOR]

I can loan you my Classics Illustrated version, if you need some pix. :laugh:

That's an idea! Maybe I could finish it up that way.

[cocodrilo]

I tried to read The Brothers Karamazov. The story is basically a who dunnit. But by the time I got halfway through I didn't care who dunnit. I did see the movie, but all I remember is Maria Schell. I don't remember who dunnit.

[bluelang]

Is this same Idaho that banned "Like Water for Chocolate" due to sexual content?

Someone's in for a surprise.

[Gatorstooth]

In reading the article it's apparent the bill sponsor was just trying to make a point about the legislature setting graduation requirements, and has no intention of pushing the bill. However, some 60 colleges and universities do teach that book as a condition for getting grant money from a banker named Allison.

Having said that I think the books chosen for students to read should, in part, develop a love for reading. I'm not sure that book will create such a love, not because of its content, but because as others have said, it's tiring to most.

[cocodrilo]

For uplifting sexual content they could assign the Bible, but that would be a violation of the first amendment. But teachers could slyly suggest that they read it at home, starting with Ezekiel's story of the two lewd sisters.

[BobK89]

I didn't know there was rough sex in Atlas Shrugged. I'm not going to read the whole thing. Can someone just give me the page numbers?

This.

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[BobK89]

On a separate note I have been reading the unabridged version of Les Misérables for years and I'm still not through it. Every once in awhile I'll pick it up and read some more then put it back down. It is on my bucket list to finish up though.

Man steals a loaf of bread.

Then, some s--- goes down.

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