Tax Pinches Those Who Earn the Least

[mocgator]

Taxes will go up only on people making $250K or more. :laugh::laugh: I love it when people who voted for obama get punched in the face by his leftist marxist statist plans. I giggle out loud and high five anyone around me.

Now... the payroll tax cut should never have happened anyways but it did. The interesting part is that this tax increase is on low income people who actually work. It may well drive more people on to entitlement programs that would otherwise not be. Maybe that's obama's plan. Could very well be.

Elections have consequences.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/restored-payroll-tax-pinches-those-with-the-smallest-checks.html?hp&_r=1&

Like millions of other Americans, they are feeling the bite from the sharp increase in payroll taxes that took effect at the beginning of January. There are growing signs that the broader economy is suffering, too.

Chain-store sales have weakened over the course of the month. And two surveys released last week suggested that consumer confidence was eroding, especially among lower-income Americans. :laugh:

“If you wanted to design a policy to squeeze the spending of lower- and middle-income households, raising the payroll tax is the way to do it,” said Ian Shepherdson, chief economist at Pantheon Macroeconomic Advisors. “It’s very regressive.”

[enviroGator]

Taxes will go up only on people making $250K or more. :laugh::laugh: I love it when people who voted for obama get punched in the face by his leftist marxist statist plans. I giggle out loud and high five anyone around me.

Now... the payroll tax cut should never have happened anyways but it did. The interesting part is that this tax increase is on low income people who actually work. It may well drive more people on to entitlement programs that would otherwise not be. Maybe that's obama's plan. Could very well be.

Elections have consequences.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/restored-payroll-tax-pinches-those-with-the-smallest-checks.html?hp&_r=1&

Like millions of other Americans, they are feeling the bite from the sharp increase in payroll taxes that took effect at the beginning of January. There are growing signs that the broader economy is suffering, too.

Chain-store sales have weakened over the course of the month. And two surveys released last week suggested that consumer confidence was eroding, especially among lower-income Americans. :laugh:

“If you wanted to design a policy to squeeze the spending of lower- and middle-income households, raising the payroll tax is the way to do it,” said Ian Shepherdson, chief economist at Pantheon Macroeconomic Advisors. “It’s very regressive.”

I'll type slow so that maybe you can understand...

The expiration of a temporary tax cut is not a tax increase.

A temporary tax cut that this president gave by the way...

[rpmGator]

Can't for the life of me figure out how sales have gone down since Christmas has passed.

[mocgator]

I'll type slow so that maybe you can understand...

The expiration of a temporary tax cut is not a tax increase.

A temporary tax cut that this president gave by the way...

I said it should never have been given in my original post.

Try to explain any of this to the low information voter... All they see is money out of their pay check...

[enviroGator]

I said it should never have been given in my original post.

Try to explain any of this to the low information voter... All they see is money out of their pay check...

Yeah your OP really sounded like that was your point... SMH

Taxes will go up only on people making $250K or more. :laugh::laugh: I love it when people who voted for obama get punched in the face by his leftist marxist statist plans. I giggle out loud and high five anyone around me.

Now... the payroll tax cut should never have happened anyways but it did. The interesting part is that this tax increase is on low income people who actually work. It may well drive more people on to entitlement programs that would otherwise not be. Maybe that's obama's plan. Could very well be.

Elections have consequences.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/restored-payroll-tax-pinches-those-with-the-smallest-checks.html?hp&_r=1&

Like millions of other Americans, they are feeling the bite from the sharp increase in payroll taxes that took effect at the beginning of January. There are growing signs that the broader economy is suffering, too.

Chain-store sales have weakened over the course of the month. And two surveys released last week suggested that consumer confidence was eroding, especially among lower-income Americans. :laugh:

“If you wanted to design a policy to squeeze the spending of lower- and middle-income households, raising the payroll tax is the way to do it,” said Ian Shepherdson, chief economist at Pantheon Macroeconomic Advisors. “It’s very regressive.”

[rivergator]

So,Moc, you're saying the payroll tax cut never should have happened in the first place ... and you're complaining that it was removed?

[mocgator]

So,Moc, you're saying the payroll tax cut never should have happened in the first place ... and you're complaining that it was removed?

No... it's funny that these people are upset about it. I'm sure that they new the tax cuts were temporary.... They are learning that tax increases will effect their disposable income and the economy.

It's a valuable teaching moment for these folks...

Taxes decrease economic activity.

Elections have consequences.

Good lessons learned.

[PSGator66]

Taxes have gone up and I can speak for myself that my paycheck has gone down.

[wgbgator]

No... it's funny that these people are upset about it. I'm sure that they new the tax cuts were temporary.... They are learning that tax increases will effect their disposable income and the economy.

It's a valuable teaching moment for these folks...

Taxes decrease economic activity.

Elections have consequences.

Good lessons learned.

So when the GOP let the payroll tax holiday expire had they won, the same lesson would have been imparted, right?

[Row6]

Speaking of low information voters ....

[fredsanford]

The faux concern for the poor is non-touching.

Everyone would have let those cuts expire, so blaming Obama is silly.

[Itssaul]

The faux concern for the poor is non-touching.

Everyone would have let those cuts expire, so blaming Obama is silly.

Faux concern? Moc is laughing, giggling, and enjoying seeing the poor suffer. He wants Obama to fail just so he and his buddies can "high-five" for a good weekend while the nation suffers. Despicable.

[mocgator]

Faux concern? Moc is laughing, giggling, and enjoying seeing the poor suffer. He wants Obama to fail just so he and his buddies can "high-five" for a good weekend while the nation suffers. Despicable.

It was only a matter of time... I don't enjoy seeing the poor suffer. I'm the most charitable person here. I do enjoy seeing people finally realizing the consequences of their decisions.... It's an awakening...

Elections have consequences right?? Like insane unemployment... negative GDP... $4 dollar gasoline...

Where do you think the blame lies after 4 years?? Bush right? Obama doesn't care about the poor or he would have implemented initiatives to positively impact these figures. But that would go against his Marxists teachings... Choices... So let's talk about gays and gun control... that will help..

[Itssaul]

It was only a matter of time... I don't enjoy seeing the poor suffer. I'm the most charitable person here. I do enjoy seeing people finally realizing the consequences of their decisions.... It's an awakening...

Elections have consequences right?? Like insane unemployment... negative GDP... $4 dollar gasoline...

Where do you think the blame lies after 4 years?? Bush right? Obama doesn't care about the poor or he would have implemented initiatives to positively impact these figures. But that would go against his Marxists teachings... Choices... So let's talk about gays and gun control... that will help..

Then stop with your walk-around-the-carcass-with-your-chest-out posts. Makes you seem like a horrible person. Seriously, no one wants a gloater.

It seems to me like Unemployment, GdP, and gasoline have all been stagnant for some time now. ( regardless of the 50% Unemployment doomsday-by-next-month posts I've seen.)

Blame? Congress, they can't do anything and survive by kicking the can down the road. I don't think you know what Obama cares about. Being a liberal does not make you Marxist. Seriously... Keynesian is a more applicable term. And if you were being oppressed and denied rights, then it'd be kind of a big deal to you. But no, you are white, straight, and religious. You won the genetic lottery. You don't have to worry about a racist boss who won't promote you because of your skin ( same with gays). You were never beat up as a little kid ( very scarring I've heard) because you we're born with a different predisposition. And don't even try the whole sanctity of marriage thing. 1) fine don't call it marriage, call it a union of 2 men for equality. And 2) marriage has fallen to such a piss poor example of what it should be. Marriage has been raped, used, and then pounded some by those who decide to marry 4-6 times and each time cheating, and drinking all the love away( if there ever is love to begin with) . Marriage today is a joke. Gays would only make it better. Gun control, well is a popular thing to talk about today because 'of all the shooting'. Try to take the guns away from people and it ends badly, so they won't. Seriously, people are so worried about an assault weapon ban when they already have them. No one will come to your house, open your (hopefully in a safe) safe, and take it leaving a voucher behind.

The ONLY thing that can help is the republican/tea party focusing on fiscal campaigns. Give liberals all they want on social issues for the keys to the economy. ( this spending is seriously astounding and yes that means defense and entitlements)

[PSGator66]

This will keep people from working beyond a certain income level. Obamacare will also eliminate the incentive to get a job to recieve health insurance.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/08/opinion/mccaffery-marginal-tax-rates/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7

[108]

Moc just looking for a reason to b!tch

the temporary tax cut was to put more demand into an economy in free fall, but the loss of revenue during the aftermath of the crisis all went to the nations CC...while the economy is still fragile, at some point, we need to start recouping revenue

but im glad Moc suddenly feels charitable to that 47%

[enviroGator]

This will keep people from working beyond a certain income level. Obamacare will also eliminate the incentive to get a job to recieve health insurance.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/08/opinion/mccaffery-marginal-tax-rates/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7

That is an interesting study.

Calling it a "tax rate" seems incorrect, as it is really more of a loss of benifits for the poor as you become less poor.

And certainly, to all involved, the hope is that you would quickly get out of the mid to low teens in income, and move up into a better place.

[malligator]

Faux concern? Moc is laughing, giggling, and enjoying seeing the poor suffer. He wants Obama to fail just so he and his buddies can "high-five" for a good weekend while the nation suffers. Despicable.

Making a political issue political on a political forum?!?! How despicable!

What's despicable is the liberals jumping to Obama's defense instead of the poor they claim to care so much about. I thought being liberal was about ideology, not idolatry?

[Itssaul]

Making a political issue political on a political forum?!?! How despicable!

What's despicable is the liberals jumping to Obama's defense instead of the poor they claim to care so much about. I thought being liberal was about ideology, not idolatry?

Well if I said
"Hey hitler was right! The Jews are just not meant to live, also slavery should be reinstated to punish the looters!"

That's an opinion, and it can be despicable, even on a political forum.

[Matthanuf06]

Both parties would have let it expire, but that is the bigger concern.

If the powers that be agree on something they push it under the rug and pull the cloth in front of the eyes of the low income voter.

This goes to show the powers that be set the agenda, what we want, what we need, what we think is right, is totally irrelevant.

[malligator]

Well if I said
"Hey hitler was right! The Jews are just not meant to live, also slavery should be reinstated to punish the looters!"

That's an opinion, and it can be despicable, even on a political forum.

Right. But this is about taxes, not genocide and slavery. See the difference?

[mocgator]

The point is why are these people complaining about anything??? They voted in a statist whose administration couldn't care less about the economy. Couldn't care less. They got elected without a good economy. They got elected by raiding the public treasury to buy votes. They got elected by raiding our children's earnings to buy votes.

Elections have consequences. These Americans don't come up on obama's radar in the slightest. They could care less in DC. These people are the great unwashed. Buy their votes and then refocus on to the power grab.

So let's go back to talking about gays, hand guns, and electric cars... that will fix things...

[Matthanuf06]

The point is why are these people complaining about anything??? They voted in a statist whose administration couldn't care less about the economy. Couldn't care less. They got elected without a good economy. They got elected by raiding the public treasury to buy votes. They got elected by raiding our children's earnings to buy votes.

Elections have consequences. These Americans don't come up on obama's radar in the slightest. They could care less in DC. These people are the great unwashed. Buy their votes and then refocus on to the power grab.

So let's go back to talking about gays, hand guns, and electric cars... that will fix things...

You are correct. Although I don't think pinning the payroll tax hike on Obama is accurate. The damage Obama does for the poor is much less transparent than that. It's more about jobs and higher pay that doesn't exist due to these policies.

[malligator]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q8erePM8V5U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He promised taxes would not go up. Now, you can call this a tax increase or a tax cut expiration, but the fact remains that his promise certainly sounded like he was going to keep the cut and he didn't.

[DaveFla]

Regardless of how you choose to parse the words, it is most assuredly a tax increase by ANY definition.

[Swampmaster]

cutting a regressive payroll tax---good
raising it back up when the economy is not doing well--as dumb as it gets

[Itssaul]

Right. But this is about taxes, not genocide and slavery. See the difference?

Enjoying the misery of those who already have it rough is pretty comparable to me.

He giggles? That's damn near psychopathic. Truth is some of the poor are underfed, and over worked, not all of them are lazy and deserving. These are our fellow human beings, as well as our fellow citizens too. And if we won't help them, then ffsake don't enjoy their misery,

[malligator]

Enjoying the misery of those who already have it rough is pretty comparable to me.

He giggles? That's damn near psychopathic. Truth is some of the poor are underfed, and over worked, not all of them are lazy and deserving. These are our fellow human beings, as well as our fellow citizens too. And if we won't help them, then ffsake don't enjoy their misery,

My takehome has gone down about $300/mo since the New Year. I don't enjoy their misery. I share it.

[mocgator]

My takehome has gone down about $300/mo since the New Year. I don't enjoy their misery. I share it.

This.

The difference is... they voted for it... and we didn't...

[GatrHeel]

This.

The difference is... they voted for it... and we didn't...

Your flaw, of course, is that your hyper-partisan view doesn't allow you to understand that Romney (presumably the guy you voted for) would have let the payroll tax cut expire too.

Sad.

Romney's tax plan would let the payroll tax cut expire, an issue he doesn't mention on the stump.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/21/taxes-2013-163m-workers/1647251/

[Itssaul]

My takehome has gone down about $300/mo since the New Year. I don't enjoy their misery. I share it.

While you have to tighten your belt in this stagnant economy, the poor who already have nothing, must make cuts like clothing quality (which in the long run is more expensive) and food cuts (literally tightening their belts).

So yes you do share it... But what we are looking at here is who really suffers more, and I think it's fairly obvious that the poor do suffer more, if not, please become poor yourself through excessive donations, and find out.

[Dreamliner]

I always thought Obama was talking about building an economy 'from the ground up.' Maybe he meant building an economy ON the people on the ground.

[wargunfan]

The payroll tax cut was helpful to those to whom every dollar of take home pay is critical. These folks got a bump in take home pay when the cut went into effect and when you're scratching to make ends meet it's easy to forget that the cut is temporary. What this tells me is that the economy is so flat that the cut might have needed to stay in effect until we get a president who can put aside partisan ideology and actually unite the Congress behind him with meaningful compromises. That won't happen until our current thin skinned ideologue is gone. Perhaps Hillary will take a lesson from Bill and move to the center where the solutions lie.

[malligator]

While you have to tighten your belt in this stagnant economy, the poor who already have nothing, must make cuts like clothing quality (which in the long run is more expensive) and food cuts (literally tightening their belts).

So yes you do share it... But what we are looking at here is who really suffers more, and I think it's fairly obvious that the poor do suffer more, if not, please become poor yourself through excessive donations, and find out.

I've been poor. I already know.

[gatorpa]

I've been poor. I already know.

And I assume you busted ass to get out of that situation....Because it sucked.

[malligator]

And I assume you busted ass to get out of that situation....Because it sucked.

I don't know if I "busted ass". I just woke up everyday and worked, somehow snuck into UF, tricked them into giving me my BSEE and now I'm not poor anymore. :laugh:

[fredsanford]

The concern here for the working poor is awe inspiring.

Those of you showing such grand concern please feel free to shuttle off to another thread where you call them dirty, good-for-nothing, 47%ers.

[gatorpa]

I don't know if I "busted ass". I just woke up everyday and worked, somehow snuck into UF, tricked them into giving me my BSEE and now I'm not poor anymore. :laugh:

Ah, the magic elixer, you worked, and went to school...did you do this at the same time? How did you manage?

[gatorpa]

The concern here for the working poor is awe inspiring.

Those of you showing such grand concern please feel free to shuttle off to another thread where you call them dirty, good-for-nothing, 47%ers.

Perhaps if the elected officials were so concerned they would stop continuing the same practices that have failed the poor for the last 50 yrs. You know the one that make people more dependent up the GOV, but wait that's what the pols want, dependents.

[mocgator]

I don't know if I "busted ass". I just woke up everyday and worked, somehow snuck into UF, tricked them into giving me my BSEE and now I'm not poor anymore. :laugh:

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[mocgator]

The concern here for the working poor is awe inspiring.

Those of you showing such grand concern please feel free to shuttle off to another thread where you call them dirty, good-for-nothing, 47%ers.

How do you think they got to be the "working poor"? It's a mental disease... we can discuss social factors but at the end of the day the majority are poor because of their own decisions.

[vangator1]

My taxes went UP. Since when is UP not an increase? Maybe in the land of Obamanation.

[malligator]

The concern here for the working poor is awe inspiring.

Those of you showing such grand concern please feel free to shuttle off to another thread where you call them dirty, good-for-nothing, 47%ers.

If their taxes went up then they pay taxes which would preclude them from being 47%ers.

[wgbgator]

If their taxes went up then they pay taxes which would preclude them from being 47%ers.

You can pay payroll taxes and not have any federal income tax liaiblity.

[malligator]

You can pay payroll taxes and not have any federal income tax liaiblity.

Ah, true. Mea culpa.

[gatorpa]

You can pay payroll taxes and not have any federal income tax liaiblity.

This is true, perhaps Obama should not have promised that if you "made less than 250k", your taxes would not go up. It was obvious the payroll tax "holiday" was going to end.

[HALLGATOR]

I thought one of the chief complaints have been the poor were not paying their fair share of the taxes. Thus they were deemed "looters."

[fredsanford]

How do you think they got to be the "working poor"? It's a mental disease... we can discuss social factors but at the end of the day the majority are poor because of their own decisions.

Or because 30 years of GOP policies moved their jobs overseas, followed by savings crushing layoffs and health bills with no insurance.

[Itssaul]

Or because 30 years of GOP policies moved their jobs overseas, followed by savings crushing layoffs and health bills with no insurance.

It's horrible, but CEO's would call this: profit

[wargunfan]

Or because 30 years of GOP policies moved their jobs overseas, followed by savings crushing layoffs and health bills with no insurance.

Of course all these greedy corporations should have kept those jobs in the states, paid inflated union wages, become non competitive, become insolvent and gone out of business. That way the jobs would not have gone overseas; they would have just.....gone.

[gatorpa]

Or because 30 years of GOP policies moved their jobs overseas, followed by savings crushing layoffs and health bills with no insurance.

Or because massive GOV regulation has caused it to be far easier and cheaper to build things overseas has lead to the export of jobs.

Didn't Clinton love him some NAFTA?

Don't forget the massive increase in the cost of higher education, making it more difficult to degree up and move up. But that's the Pubs fault too, but wait aren't most colleges bastions of liberalism? Why are they jacking up thier costs so much shouldn't an education be a right too? Sorry about all those greedy professors.

Funny Fred acts like the Pubs have had total control of this country for the last 3 decades.

[wargunfan]

We all know which party is in love with government regulations. It's not the Republicans who use the EPA and the NLRB to harass and strangle corporations. But Fred's hyper partisanship won't allow him to admit it.

[gatorpa]

I thought one of the chief complaints have been the poor were not paying their fair share of the taxes. Thus they were deemed "looters."

Complaint is more that the wealthy pay and increasing % of income taxes, and the lower earners pay a shrinking % or none, thus they don't care about the spending of DC and tax rate hikes-it does not affect them. Couple that with getting a "refund" when no income taxes are paid is where the term "looters" comes in.

[HALLGATOR]

Complaint is more that the wealthy pay and increasing % of income taxes, and the lower earners pay a shrinking % or none, thus they don't care about the spending of DC and tax rate hikes-it does not affect them. Couple that with getting a "refund" when no income taxes are paid is where the term "looters" comes in.

Then why wouldn't an increase in their taxes be looked at as a good thing by those who do the complaining?

[wargunfan]

Then why wouldn't an increase in their taxes be looked at as a good thing by those who do the complaining?

Because they are payroll taxes not income taxes! We want them to pay some actual usable tax dollars.

[Matthanuf06]

Then why wouldn't an increase in their taxes be looked at as a good thing by those who do the complaining?

I'd say the gripe is more about how people were sold a bill of goods. Personally I hate how my tax burden went up, and would have liked it to have been in the public discourse.

[Row6]

The point is why are these people complaining about anything??? They voted in a statist whose administration couldn't care less about the economy. Couldn't care less. They got elected without a good economy. They got elected by raiding the public treasury to buy votes. They got elected by raiding our children's earnings to buy votes.

Elections have consequences. These Americans don't come up on obama's radar in the slightest. They could care less in DC. These people are the great unwashed. Buy their votes and then refocus on to the power grab.

So let's go back to talking about gays, hand guns, and electric cars... that will fix things...

The payroll tax cut was going to expire, no matter who was elected, and therefore it is not an example of "elections have consequences". The most obvious "low information voter" in this thread is you.

[Row6]

How do you think they got to be the "working poor"? It's a mental disease... we can discuss social factors but at the end of the day the majority are poor because of their own decisions.

Yes, because if everyone worked hard at studies and went to UF, we'd all be doctors, lawyers, and engineers and we wouldn't need people to fix our roof, mow our lawn, wait at our table, empty bedpans, and pour our concrete. What an amazing and magical world you imagine.

[HALLGATOR]

Because they are payroll taxes not income taxes! We want them to pay some actual usable tax dollars.

What's not usable about payroll taxes?

[RealGatorFan]

Obamacare alone is a tax increase - the Supreme Court said so and the Obama lawyers argued that it was. Yet, there are no less than 10 new taxes/fees going into effect over the next 2 years that will affect everyone.

[gatorpa]

Then why wouldn't an increase in their taxes be looked at as a good thing by those who do the complaining?

Making a generalization but most of the "complainers" are sick of taxes going to a GOV that shows little care as to how it spends it's citizen's money. Less of the thought of "well I'm getting screwed so they should too."

But the line of thinking that I mentioned originally still holds true if everybody was putting some cash it thru income taxes then everybody might care how the GOV uses the public's money.

[gatorpa]

What's not usable about payroll taxes?

I assume he means to fund something other than SS, which payroll taxes are supposed to be reserved for, that is until the GOV started filling the lock box with IOUS from the treasury.

[Matthanuf06]

And the fact that we do not have a lockbox invested has cost us tens of trillions of dollars. Thanks greedy Uncle Sam!

[wargunfan]

Every potential tax payer should have a monetary stake in the future of the country. If you have income above the poverty line you should be paying some income tax. Those of us who pay income taxes in the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars every year have a right to expect that everyone help the country in this time of fiscal danger. We cannot afford to have so few Americans shouldering the load.

[mocgator]

Or because 30 years of GOP policies moved their jobs overseas, followed by savings crushing layoffs and health bills with no insurance.

This made me laugh out loud.

[Swampmaster]

I'm paying more taxes and getting less govt services- what gives?