Supplements

[Allanon]

Some of you that have had experience with supplements, I'd like to hear(or read) what you think and what is best and what not to fool with. Thanks.

[LAGatorDoc]

Deer antler spray. Fixed Ray Lewis's tricep in 2 months (career ending injury), and he won a Super Bowl... Even though he was caught and it's illegal

[Dreamliner]

Supplement your life with consistent lifting.

Sorry. :wink:

I will tell you that the one supplement that even the skeptics don't talk bad about is creatine. That is to say they acknowledge that it may be of modest value.

[LeafUF]

Deer antler spray. Fixed Ray Lewis's tricep in 2 months (career ending injury), and he won a Super Bowl... Even though he was caught and it's illegal

Its actually very legal but it's also a joke of a supplement. Whatever Ray took and he must have taken something had to be illegal and very effective.

[LeafUF]

Most supplements are a waste of money but there are some worth taking if you aren't getting enough in your diet or can't get it through dieting. What those are for you depends on your training, goals and diet.

[Allanon]

We've been doing some training as we could during his basketball season. Now that it is over he wants us to get back to it on a more consistent basis. The coaches want him to get bigger and stronger for next season. He is just one of those kids that has a hard time putting on weight. His position coach mentioned protein but he already drinks a lot of milk and eats a lot of peanut butter. I hear that one kid on the team has put on 19 pounds since about December 1. Now, I don't know what he is doing other than working out hard but that seems like a lot of weight for a 16 year old to put on in 2 months. Anyway, he eats well, takes his multivitamin and works hard in the weightroom. I have been doing some research but just wondered what people on here thought about this subject. He would like to gain some weight too but he is just a hardgainer.

[LeafUF]

16 year olds can make big gains really quick. I made the majority of my strength and muscle gains from 16-18, then had another spurt from 18-22. Those seem to be the prime years. After that you are usually just making tiny improvements or constantly trying to regain the muscle you made in those early years.

Now, your sons coach is right, protein is important but I wouldnt consider it a supplement. You can get all you need from your diet, your son just might not be though because milk and peanut butter are not the best ways to get a lot of protein in. Lots of calories, decent amount of protein.

Before you go looking to buy supplements try tracking his diet for a day to see how many calories he eats, how many carbs, fats and protein. It is possible that he is a hardgainer but you gotta know if he is eating surplus calories to be sure.

[exiledgator]

Before you go looking to buy supplements try tracking his diet for a day to see how many calories he eats, how many carbs, fats and protein. It is possible that he is a hardgainer but you gotta know if he is eating surplus calories to be sure.

This. There are lots of apps that make this easy. Even a couple days of vigilance may reveal a lot. Have him eat what he normally does, track it and see what he's getting.

[Dreamliner]

Honestly guys, teenager + raging hormones + strength training = "juvenile muscle growth."

[Allanon]

16 year olds can make big gains really quick. I made the majority of my strength and muscle gains from 16-18, then had another spurt from 18-22. Those seem to be the prime years. After that you are usually just making tiny improvements or constantly trying to regain the muscle you made in those early years.

Now, your sons coach is right, protein is important but I wouldnt consider it a supplement. You can get all you need from your diet, your son just might not be though because milk and peanut butter are not the best ways to get a lot of protein in. Lots of calories, decent amount of protein.

Before you go looking to buy supplements try tracking his diet for a day to see how many calories he eats, how many carbs, fats and protein. It is possible that he is a hardgainer but you gotta know if he is eating surplus calories to be sure.

Yesterday: Breakfast-English Muffin covered in peanut butter and a glass of chocolate milk and his multi-vitamin. Lunch was at school so I don't know what he had. On the way to golf practice he had a Snickers and a Powerade. Supper-Large grilled chicken sandwich and some french fries. Before going to bed he had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a large glass of chocolate milk.

[Dreamliner]

Kids tend to automatically eat enough food for their growth needs.

Also, my kid has a skinny dad and a skinny mom (or maybe it was the milkman). He did not consciously increase food intake. He simply adhered consistently to a (and this may be key) a basic BODYBUILDING split.

Aside for deadlifting, which he limited to sets of five reps, reps were generally in the 8-10 range. On average, he hit each bodypart twice a week.

Started at age 17. One year later and he had dropped four belt holes while losing only about five pounds. This suggests that he packed on an appreciable amount of muscle.

To review ...

Skinny-fat child of skinny parents does not consciously increase food intake, hits bodyparts twice of week with moderately high reps, increasing weight as comfortable ... effects fairly spectacular transformation.

[Dreamliner]

http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com

[LeafUF]

Yesterday: Breakfast-English Muffin covered in peanut butter and a glass of chocolate milk and his multi-vitamin. Lunch was at school so I don't know what he had. On the way to golf practice he had a Snickers and a Powerade. Supper-Large grilled chicken sandwich and some french fries. Before going to bed he had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a large glass of chocolate milk.

Depending on what his lunch was he could be eating between 2000 and 3000 calories with a decent amount of protein in there. Probably between 100 and 150 grams. Now he sounds pretty active and may still be burning as many or more calories than he is eating. Find out what he is doing for lunch and maybe see if he is consistent over a few days or a week. If you buy anything in the way of supplements I would just look at protein shakes which are more convenient food imo than supplement.

[Allanon]

Depending on what his lunch was he could be eating between 2000 and 3000 calories with a decent amount of protein in there. Probably between 100 and 150 grams. Now he sounds pretty active and may still be burning as many or more calories than he is eating. Find out what he is doing for lunch and maybe see if he is consistent over a few days or a week. If you buy anything in the way of supplements I would just look at protein shakes which are more convenient food imo than supplement.

Protein is more what we were thinking. But there are so many different things out there I really did not know the best to get. And others say Muscle Milk.

[LeafUF]

Protein is more what we were thinking. But there are so many different things out there I really did not know the best to get. And others say Muscle Milk.

I have personally never used muscle milk but I haven't heard bad things about it. It will get him extra protein and calories fairly easily. I currently have cellucor whey, dymatize and optimum nutrition protein shakes. Any of those will be solid choices. If you go to the websites of these companies a lot of times you can get a sample pack so you can try out different types and flavors. Adding a shake or two may help but don't expect miracles or anything.

[Allanon]

I have personally never used muscle milk but I haven't heard bad things about it. It will get him extra protein and calories fairly easily. I currently have cellucor whey, dymatize and optimum nutrition protein shakes. Any of those will be solid choices. If you go to the websites of these companies a lot of times you can get a sample pack so you can try out different types and flavors. Adding a shake or two may help but don't expect miracles or anything.

Nope, no such things as miracles. Just hard work.

[LeafUF]

Nope, no such things as miracles. Just hard work.

You got it. Hard work, consistent effort and patience. Progress will follow.

[Dreamliner]

It is miraculous. It's called "Juvenile Muscle Growth." Basically, it happens once, to kids, and is generally fairly spectacular. enjoy it, as my son did.

[TheGator]

I have gone through periods where I put on lots of muscle in my adult years fairly quickly.

The most safest and natural is with diet, protein and creatine. Always had great results as long as I made sure to get plenty of creatine and protein.

Also another key in working out is drinking recovery drinks after your workouts. It eliminates soreness and I believe increases results.

With just that, I have seen tremendous results in short periods of time.

[Allanon]

Since I am leaving work to pick him up from PE, after they finish their workout, to take him to golf we are trying to find some flavor of protein bar that he can eat. We bought 4 different flavors over the weekend. Today was number 3. He takes a bite to see what he thinks and then I get a bite. The first one was so chocolatey that it curled our toes. 2 of these were GNC bars and the other 2 were Clif bars. If any of you know a protein bar that tastes good I will very much appreciate it.

[LeafUF]

Quest Bars. They are the only brand you need bother looking at. Seriously, they are amazing. And I never eat protein bars because the majority are basically just gross candy bars.

http://www.questproteinbar.com/

[TheGator]

Premier Protein Bars that you can buy from Costco are tasty. :)

http://premierprotein.com/category/bars/?gclid=CIG83azctLUCFQhxQgodpC4AlQ

[Allanon]

Quest Bars. They are the only brand you need bother looking at. Seriously, they are amazing. And I never eat protein bars because the majority are basically just gross candy bars.

http://www.questproteinbar.com/

Gross candy bars indeed. We will have to keep our eyes open for the Quest Bars.

[Allanon]

Premier Protein Bars that you can buy from Costco are tasty. :)

http://premierprotein.com/category/bars/?gclid=CIG83azctLUCFQhxQgodpC4AlQ

We don't have a Costco nearby but we will look around our area.

[Dreamliner]

I know I sound like a broken record, but here is a 'capsule' summary on some of the substances we regard as beneficial:

Protein: has been shown to induce protein synthesis. Problem is, protein synthesis has not been proven to induce long-term muscle growth.

Vitamin D: researchers are pretty down on it these days.

Multi-vitamins: may increase mortality risk in older women.

Glucosamine: no large studies show that it's effective.

Calcium: merely doubling normal intake may double risk of heart attack death in women.

Mood-stabilizers: may cause us to shoot schoolchildren, cops and their families. Studies ongoing.

Aspirin: not the 'miracle drug' anymore. Protection against heart attack negligible and, of course, may be hard on stomach.

beer: granted, this may be a miracle drug.

[UFNut]

If he is young and highly active, just give him a snickers bar, and don't worry about the macros, it is one of the great things about that age...you can eat pretty much anything. Might as well give him stuff he likes. Just have to make sure he is eating enough calories.

[Dreamliner]

Beer is now my go-to post-workout supplement.

[Gatorrick22]

Some of you that have had experience with supplements, I'd like to hear(or read) what you think and what is best and what not to fool with. Thanks.

I just started taking amino supplements, I'll tell you more about them as I get into a workout routine.

So far in just over two weeks all looks to be good.

[Gatorrick22]

Beer is now my go-to post-workout supplement.

Are you still in Central Florida? If so... Beer summit..

[Dreamliner]

Are you still in Central Florida? If so... Beer summit..

Still here, but my days here are numbered. Probably be out of here by the end of March. Good thing beer is everywhere.

[Tasselhoff]

Every supplement I have tried either

A. Tasted like chalk a d cardboard
B. Left me feeling bloated and heavy
C. Gave a terrible case of diarreha
D. All of the above

Mostly D.
Now in fairness I had colon cancer and a large chunk of my innards are gone so many many things cam now give me diarreha. Even just seeing Calipari on tv.

[Tasselhoff]

Every supplement I have tried either

A. Tasted like chalk a d cardboard
B. Left me feeling bloated and heavy
C. Gave a terrible case of diarreha
D. All of the above

Mostly D.
Now in fairness I had colon cancer and a large chunk of my innards are gone so many many things cam now give me diarreha. Even just seeing Calipari on tv.

[LeafUF]

Quest bar cinnamon roll microwave for 10 secs. Best thing ever.

[Dreamliner]

Will creatine be the only (marginally) worthwhile supplement left standing ?

"Fish Oil's Slippery Health Claims"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/16/fish-oil-s-slippery-health-claims.html

[Gatorrick22]

Every supplement I have tried either

A. Tasted like chalk a d cardboard
B. Left me feeling bloated and heavy
C. Gave a terrible case of diarreha
D. All of the above

Mostly D.
Now in fairness I had colon cancer and a large chunk of my innards are gone so many many things cam now give me diarreha. Even just seeing Calipari on tv.

You should try MuscleMeds "Carnivor" (Beef Protein, chocolate) It digests easily and it actually tastes great. Just don't put more scoops into one drink than recommended.

[MaceoP]

Jaye Robb makes a great whey powder. The downside is its expensive I noticed when I tried creatine (ce2) I had tendinitis flare up, even drinking lots of water.

Muscle milk uses maltitol? Which acts as a laxative. I tried it for a while and didn't like it

[gator1986]

The best whey protein I have ever had Isopure. Don't mess with muscle milk, or any of that garbage. I take Kre Alkalyn, and drink Modern BCAA's. It's all trial and error for each person, I tried Xtend BCAA powder and it wasn't better than Modern BCAA's.

[Gatorrick22]

The best whey protein I have ever had Isopure. Don't mess with muscle milk, or any of that garbage. I take Kre Alkalyn, and drink Modern BCAA's. It's all trial and error for each person, I tried Xtend BCAA powder and it wasn't better than Modern BCAA's.

MuscleMeds has a 10:1:1 leucine, Isoleucine and Valine ratio that is said to be the best for muscle building. I'm just going to add some Leucine to the BCAA's that I have now and then I'll buy that brand when I run out.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Here's my go-to:

Food.

[Dreamliner]

Here's my go-to:

Food.

Nutcase.

[Gatorrick22]

Nutcase.

:laugh::laugh:


Food alone works great when you're 20.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Supplements are merely extractions from foods, for the most part.

Food always works.

[Dreamliner]

Also: food is chemicals. That's all food is.

[TheGator]

Supplements are merely extractions from foods, for the most part.

Food always works.

Yes, but in a regular diet you cannot get the amount of nutrients needed to build muscle as fast as you can with supplements.

Also, not to turn this thread into Too Hot, prior to eating processed foods, our diets were much more nutritious. Nowadays foods have been stripped of a lot of nutrients that the body needs.

ie Whole Milk v. Skim Milk

[Dreamliner]

Fact: whey protein post-workout does promote protein synthesis.

Problem: there is no evidence that protein synthesis promotes muscle-growth long-term.

[Gatorrick22]

Supplements are merely extractions from foods, for the most part.

Food always works.

I can promise you that working-out with my supplements intake works better and faster than anything I can eat alone without them.

I'd have to eat half a cow a day to get close. And as you age your metabolism and digestion slows the fu%k down to a crawl...... Therefor, supplements enhance my nutritional intake to compensate for..... all that aging does to the human body.

Free-form aminos require no digesting and adding them to your diet requires no extra efford from your body to digest them...... They are like legal wonder-drugs of nutrition for the body.

[LeafUF]

You can definitely meet your nutrient needs through diet alone. I will use whey shakes and quest bars for convenience but its not like they are necessary.

[Gatorrick22]

Sure, eating well will keep you exterior facade (your body) looking good, but your insides are aging/faltering/dying a slow and seemingly unnoticed death.

Supplements are for your mind, body and soul.

[Dreamliner]

WTF ? Somebody start a Religion Forum.

[Gatorrick22]

WTF ? Somebody start a Religion Forum.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Okay, forget your soul.... just go with mind and body for now.

[UFNut]

I wouldn't mind a religion/spirituality forum, if people talked about anything but Christian faith in there....there are other religions and spiritual views. Also wouldn't mind a more philosophy based forum...never could figure out why adding forums was so bothersome...

[LeafUF]

I wouldn't mind a religion/spirituality forum, if people talked about anything but Christian faith in there....there are other religions and spiritual views. Also wouldn't mind a more philosophy based forum...never could figure out why adding forums was so bothersome...

There was that religion/spirituality forum for a little while but it was really just a Christianity forum and I don't think it got a lot of traffic. No point maintaining a forum no one is using.

[sec1]

i was my strongest from 25 -28 , i took creatine a 3 months on and a month off for 3 years , i was a powerlifter for 8 years , i won 3 world n national titles my total was over 2000 lbs for bench,squat ,n deadlift , i was in the 220 and then the 242 lb class

[Dreamliner]

i was my strongest from 25 -28 , i took creatine a 3 months on and a month off for 3 years , i was a powerlifter for 8 years , i won 3 world n national titles my total was over 2000 lbs for bench,squat ,n deadlift , i was in the 220 and then the 242 lb class

Seems like creatine may be the only supplement that's worth a damn. The short time I experimented with it I did seem to have fuller looking muscles.

[Gatorrick22]

Also: food is chemicals. That's all food is.

This is exactly what my girlfriend said to me earlier tonight. That's...... weird. You two must read the same articles on health and fitness.

[Dreamliner]

This is exactly what my girlfriend said to me earlier tonight. That's...... weird. You two must read the same articles on health and fitness.

What's weird to me is that a woman made this observation. In my experience, it's usually women who evince an almost hysterical fear of chemicals in foods.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Fact: whey protein post-workout does promote protein synthesis.

Problem: there is no evidence that protein synthesis promotes muscle-growth long-term.

Associated Fact 2: Whey protein is in all milk products

Yes, but in a regular diet you cannot get the amount of nutrients needed to build muscle as fast as you can with supplements.

Nah. Other than creatine (which people take in excess intentionally and some people don't respond because their bodies maintain high creatinine levels), you can everything you need from food at a higher efficiency and lower cost than supplements.

Over the years only a few supplements have stood the tests of time and efficacy:

protein for muscle growth
creatine for strength, vis a vis muscle growth
caffeine for thermogenesis and energy
ephedrine for thermogenesis and energy

As I broke down for Rick in another thread, you can get all of your BCAAs you'd get from a day's serving of BCAA supplement in a single egg. Unless you're fasting and can't have the calories from an egg, there's no reason to supplement with it.

Look at the others - beta alanine is something that will be laughed at as a supplement in five years. The rest is garbage, phased in an out to unsuspecting (or worse, suspecting) rubes year in and year out.

[TheGator]

Associated Fact 2: Whey protein is in all milk products



Nah. Other than creatine (which people take in excess intentionally and some people don't respond because their bodies maintain high creatinine levels), you can everything you need from food at a higher efficiency and lower cost than supplements.

Over the years only a few supplements have stood the tests of time and efficacy:

protein for muscle growth
creatine for strength, vis a vis muscle growth
caffeine for thermogenesis and energy
ephedrine for thermogenesis and energy

As I broke down for Rick in another thread, you can get all of your BCAAs you'd get from a day's serving of BCAA supplement in a single egg. Unless you're fasting and can't have the calories from an egg, there's no reason to supplement with it.

Look at the others - beta alanine is something that will be laughed at as a supplement in five years. The rest is garbage, phased in an out to unsuspecting (or worse, suspecting) rubes year in and year out.


I will agree with this. I have only taken protein and creatine, and have always had great results.

The only way I could do better, is taking steroids and other crap, which I prefer not to.

[Gatormb]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


Okay, forget your soul.... just go with mind and body for now.

Soul is OK. Just don't mention Spirit around Dream. Carry on men.

[Dreamliner]

Hehe, yeah, don't get that down-payment worship stuff. :wink:

[yellowgator]

I know it may sound funny, but I am on Visalus. I started taking the product about a month and half ago. I have dropped my body fat from 21% to 15%. I am currently in the military and I have a few of my guys on the same product. They all have dropped weight and has started toning their bodies. If you have any questions check my site out or email me.
http://bbvhardwork.bodybyvi.com/challenge

yellagator@gmail.com

GO GATORS!!!

[LeafUF]

I bet all those military guys are just dying to get "tone".

[yellowgator]

Nothing wrong with toning your body. We like our beach bodies too, even if we don't live near a beach.

[LeafUF]

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/time-to-man-up/

Ill just leave this here.

[Dreamliner]

Another supplement bites the dust: Niacin shown not effective for heart disease and may have harmful side effects.

[Gatorrick22]

Here's my go-to:

Food.

Food alone works okay until you hit 30 something. Then it's a matter of time before you wake-up all frail and decrepit.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

:laugh:

[Dreamliner]

Food alone works okay until you hit 30 something. Then it's a matter of time before you wake-up all frail and decrepit.

True, it's called aging.

[ATL_Gator]

Food alone works okay until you hit 30 something. Then it's a matter of time before you wake-up all frail and decrepit.

I find that it is an even longer time before you realize that.

:plain:

[Gatorrick22]

Supplements are merely extractions from foods, for the most part.

Food always works.

True, but Silvester Stallone isn't just into "food" and he's still going strong.

And, some foods are killing you slowly, like all white breads and white flour, plus any store bought product made with white flour including all white breads. They use Bromine to make it with. Bromine is bad for your Thyroid. The water we drink has two nasty little elements, chlorine and fluorine, also bad for your thyroid.

So be careful which "food/s" you eat, not all of them are good for you.

[Gatorrick22]

You can definitely meet your nutrient needs through diet alone. I will use whey shakes and quest bars for convenience but its not like they are necessary.

All proteins are is a group of amino acids. The only difference between them is that in protein intake your body has to work hard to breakdown the protein into amino acids where as the intake of amino acids bypass the digestion workload/process altogether.

[Gatorrick22]

What's weird to me is that a woman made this observation. In my experience, it's usually women who evince an almost hysterical fear of chemicals in foods.

My girlfriend is smarter than the average chick.

[Gatorrick22]

I will agree with this. I have only taken protein and creatine, and have always had great results.

The only way I could do better, is taking steroids and other crap, which I prefer not to.

Have you ever tried free-form amino acids? Body builders have been using them for decades, and Olympic teams across the globe are now finally seeing the benefits of FF amino acids.

They're safe and legal, yet they're still a little pricy. But I'm worth it. :laugh:

[orangeblueorangeblue]

True, but Silvester Stallone isn't just into "food".

And, some foods are killing you slowly, like all white breads and white flour, plus any store bought product made with white flour including all white breads. They use Bromine to make it with. Bromine is bad for your Thyroid. The water we drink has two nasty little elements, chlorine and fluorine, also bad for your thyroid.

So be careful which "food/s" you eat, not all of them are good for you.

Oh lord.

[Itssaul]

Had a supplement today. Tri-Tip, skirt steak, and asparagus (10 spears)


Mmmm good stuff.

[Dreamliner]

Can we put this one to bed already ? Not only is it not necessary to take supplements for optimal health, it isn't necessary to 'eat healthy' for optimal health. Genetics and lifestyle have more to do with health than we often care to admit. And besides, the body just isn't that fragile. Witness kids who eat nothing but 'junk food' and grow into healthy, strapping adults.

Also: vegetables are overrated. By all means, eat them ... if you find them tasty.

[Gatorrick22]

Oh lord.

please tell me I'm mistaken or something along those lines. If you have contradictory info you'd like to impart I'd love to read it.

[Gatorrick22]

Can we put this one to bed already ? Not only is it not necessary to take supplements for optimal health, it isn't necessary to 'eat healthy' for optimal health. Genetics and lifestyle have more to do with health than we often care to admit. And besides, the body just isn't that fragile. Witness kids who eat nothing but 'junk food' and grow into healthy, strapping adults.

Also: vegetables are overrated. By all means, eat them ... if you find them tasty.

Be careful... OBOB might stamp his "Oh Lord" on your post. :laugh::laugh::laugh: