Pastor forced to apologize for speaking at Sandy Hook

[oragator1]

And people wonder why more folks are turning away from organized religion, this is just silly.

A Connecticut Lutheran pastor has apologized for participating in an interfaith prayer vigil for the 26 children and adults killed at a Newtown elementary school in December because his church bars its clergy from worshipping with other faiths.
The December prayer vigil was attended by President Barack Obama, leaders from Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths, and relatives of the 20 first graders who were gunned down in their classrooms two days earlier after a gunman entered their school.

This is not the first time a Lutheran leader has been chastised for participating in a community service in the wake of a local tragedy.
'False teaching'
David Benke, a Lutheran pastor in New York, was suspended for praying at an interfaith vigil in 2001, 12 days after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. Benke, who had refused to apologize for the incident, was reinstated in 2003.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16882169-lutheran-pastor-apologizes-for-taking-part-in-sandy-hook-service#comments

[bluelang]

Jesus would have approved.

[PSGator66]

That is his own churches ruling.

[Dreamliner]

You have to be very careful about what you believe these days. It's a lot safer to have squishy, ill-defined beliefs, like so many people who are leaving the churches.

[wygator]

Jesus spent a lot of time with "publicans, prostitutes and tax collectors". I think he would approve of the pastor's actions.

[OaktownGator]

That is his own churches ruling.

Jesus was a Lutheran? :joecool:

[wgbgator]

You have to be very careful about what you believe these days. It's a lot safer to have squishy, ill-defined beliefs, like so many people who are leaving the churches.

Seems like "joint worship" is squishy and ill-defined in this case as well.

[QGator2414]

Not really sure why praying is a big deal to the leaders in the Lutheran Church. If there was apostasy involved then I would understand the concern...

[malligator]

You have to be very careful about what you believe these days. It's a lot safer to have squishy, ill-defined beliefs, like so many people who are leaving the churches.

Agreed. Many not only want separation of church from state, but also separation of church from its own ideals.

[kygator]

If you don't want to follow the beliefs of the Lutheran Church, then don't become a Lutheran pastor. If he disagrees with that rule then he should have the courage to say so and accept the consequences.

[LittleBlueLW]

Must be his particular church. My father in law is a retired Lutheran minister (Missouri Senate) and I just asked my wife about whether or not they ever participated in community worship, youth groups, etc. and she said absolutely yes.

[oragator1]

If you don't want to follow the beliefs of the Lutheran Church, then don't become a Lutheran pastor. If he disagrees with that rule then he should have the courage to say so and accept the consequences.

This is my point, the very fact that he would have to consider either one of those two things for doing the right thing and what presumably a pastor is supposed to do (helping a small town through the worst day it will ever see any way he could) is why organized religion is turning so many people off, it comes across as putting the self serving interests of their church above the interests of the people they are supposed to serve. I understand the idea of tradition and standing for your beliefs, but if he had asked in advance, would their leaders really have said "yes they need help desperately and yes a community get together would really help everyone the most efficiently, and the fact that it will be on TV nationally will help the country heal, but the Lutherans can't have their pastor there to help them through it because a Muslim is speaking"? Does that seem remotely logical or consistent with what Christianity is supposed to be about?

This is a running trend in this country, here is an article on it, we have become less religious, but the much more pronounced trend is less affiliation to a specific church or doctrine while still considering themselves religious, and protestants have been hit hardest:

So if it's not God, or the thought of a higher power that's turning people off, what is?

The study suggests it's organized religion - with respondents overwhelmingly saying many organizations are too focused on money, power and politics.

Protestants have suffered the greatest decline. They now account for just 48 percent of religious adults, making it the first time in history that the United States doesn't have a Protestant majority.

Indeed, it's the young - one out of every three person surveyed under the age of 30 - who say they don't link themselves with a church, a mosque, a synagogue, or anything else.
Compare that, with the "Greatest Generation," where only one in 20 claimed no religious home.


At some point religions will have to come to terms with this perception or refuse to change in the name of tradition and accept their shrinking numbers and long term decline.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57559432/losing-our-religion/

[JerseyGator01]

Yes, we must all bow at the feet of the true messiah, as the media does every day.

[lacuna]

Yes, we must all bow at the feet of the true messiah, as the media does every day.

:huh: What is the meaning and context of this statement in this post, Jersey? :huh:

[gatorman_07732]

And people wonder why more folks are turning away from organized religion, this is just silly.





http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16882169-lutheran-pastor-apologizes-for-taking-part-in-sandy-hook-service#comments

If this is why people turn their backs on organized religion, then they are foolish

[rivergator]

I went to Lutheran churches as a kid. I always thought they were fairly liberal, so this surprises me.

[cocodrilo]

Martin Luther would turn over in his grave if he knew that a Lutheran had shared a vigil (or anything else) with a Jew.

[QGator2414]

I went to Lutheran churches as a kid. I always thought they were fairly liberal, so this surprises me.

I don't know much about the Lutheran denomination. That said many denominations have disagreement.

WRT Presbyterian: PCA is generally conservative and PCUSA is generally more liberal

I lean Presbyterian in my doctrinal beliefs though we attend a Baptist church with a Reformed Pastor...So very similar to Presbyterian PCA...

[WESGATORS]

I don't think it's rational to make any over-reaching conclusions about a mass of people being deterred from organized religion on account of how a single church handles things. If that were the case, Westboro would be enough, wouldn't it?

Fact is, there are a lot of flavors of churches out there, and there's enough for people to find what they need to quench their spiritual thirst.

Those making overreaching conclusions about organized religion sound like spiritual anarchists (similar to the anarchists that get made fun of when it pertains to organized government).

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[oragator1]

I don't think it's rational to make any over-reaching conclusions about a mass of people being deterred from organized religion on account of how a single church handles things. If that were the case, Westboro would be enough, wouldn't it?

Fact is, there are a lot of flavors of churches out there, and there's enough for people to find what they need to quench their spiritual thirst.

Those making overreaching conclusions about organized religion sound like spiritual anarchists (similar to the anarchists that get made fun of when it pertains to organized government).

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Which was why I provided empirical evidence in terms of the trend and the reasons behind that trend.
I agree this incident isn't going to mean a whole lot to religion as a whole, I was presenting it as a symptom of a larger problem. Any time you give a great deal of power to a small number of people then corruption, politics and money/power grabs are inevitable. This was just an excellent example of why people are turning away from organized religion.
As for being a spiritual anarchist, that's an interesting term, I would phrase it more like a belief that the major religions distort their message for their self preservation/power. I also believe that the fact there are so many denominations of Christianity is in no small part because of this phenomena, but now instead of new sects you are getting people who simply read the bible or Torah etc. and take from it what they believe it was intended for and not what someone else who may have an alternative agenda or dozens of competing views tells them it means. If that's spiritual anarchy, then so be it I guess. But with the information age you or I have as much access to the history of the bible than anyone in the priesthood and can donate time or money to causes all over the world as easily as a church can, just as they can help in their community as easily, or heck start a charity to do the work the church used to do. The bloated church apparatus is becoming an anachronism, they don't need to be as central to a community as they used to be, and as people turn away along with their wallets, they become more and more desperate to protect the turf they have, which is why you get stories like this.
JMHO.

[WESGATORS]

I guess the short version is to be careful about letting Christians scare you away from Christ. What's the bumper sticker: "Jesus save me from your followers!"

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[gatornana]

The church may not pray with other denominations or faiths but will join them in fighting gay rights.

So, OK then, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod wants to avoid any appearance of squishiness about its core beliefs that might come from joint worship or joint prayer or standing alongside members of other denominations or other faiths. It doesn’t even matter if a community like Newtown or New York is united in grief from a grave tragedy. What matters most is that the LCMS never give the impression that it can co-operate with what are, in their view, false denominations and false religions.
No co-operation. No appearance of comity and partnership. No coming together or working together in any way that might blur these essential differences.

Got it?

OK, that was Wednesday’s news. Here’s the news from Tuesday: “Mormons, other religious groups file brief in support of Prop 8.”

And who would those other groups be?


Other groups whose names are on the brief are the National Association of Evangelicals, the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention; the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod; the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America; the Romanian-American Evangelical Alliance of North America; and Truth in Action Ministries.

So praying for the victims of tragedy with other members of the community is forbidden. But interfaith coalitions are just fine when it comes to kicking LGBT people.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2013/02/07/missouri-synod-lutherans-interfaith-action-against-gay-people-is-fine-but-not-prayers-for-slain-children/

[108]

Jesus has never been the problem....it's his followers

[gatorman_07732]

Jesus has never been the problem....it's his followers

nah, you're just point with a very broad brush

[cocodrilo]

Jesus has never been the problem....it's his followers

That's why Jesus still says, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."