FSU - focus

[sgtfury]

Seems to me that what is important to FSU and all of their people are their pre-season rankings and recruiting rankings. That is when the intense chanting occurs.
So, we hear the chanting again. It is kind of funny to me that UF appears to be the Andrew Jackson with regard to these Seminoles. What say you!

[tegator80]

Seems to me that what is important to FSU and all of their people are their pre-season rankings and recruiting rankings. That is when the intense chanting occurs.
So, we hear the chanting again. It is kind of funny to me that UF appears to be the Andrew Jackson with regard to these Seminoles. What say you!

I try to keep it simple. They are mostly motivated by their not getting accepted into UF - or not even trying because they KNEW they were going to get turned down. Kind of sad, if it weren't so entertaining.

[The_Graygator]

You should have seen their paper today, the Tally Democrat, touting their OL recruitng and "top ten finishing class". No nolies, it was concensus #11, not even top 10, and the only reason it made top 15 was because of Jalen Ramsey being afraid of the depth chart at UF! :laugh:

They said they didn't get quantity on Ol, but quality. One 4 star kid that no top tier program wanted, and two other 3* and 2* players, ham and eggers.

They didn't do "bad" per-say, but they didn't do "great" either.

[Blackblack]

You should have seen their paper today, the Tally Democrat, touting their OL recruitng and "top ten finishing class". No nolies, it was concensus #11, not even top 10, and the only reason it made top 15 was because of Jalen Ramsey being afraid of the depth chart at UF! :laugh:

They said they didn't get quantity on Ol, but quality. One 4 star kid that no top tier program wanted, and two other 3* and 2* players, ham and eggers.

They didn't do "bad" per-say, but they didn't do "great" either.

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[lurkingator1]

Ham and eggers is correct, FSU is in big trouble next year starting with the offensive Line specifically at tackle. Mathew Thomas and Jalen Ramsey are not going to be of any help to them on the Oline stupid noles !

[The_Graygator]

Ham and eggers is correct, FSU is in big trouble next year starting with the offensive Line specifically at tackle. Mathew Thomas and Jalen Ramsey are not going to be of any help to them on the Oline stupid noles !


Pretty much.

A #11 concensus class isn't bad, but not great either, especially when you miss out on vital needs. Then you consider the poor coaching and development on top of that.

It's always funny watching nolies thump their chests on our board about anything, perpetuating that little brother syndrome even further.

I have this nolie friend of mine who's eaten up with Gator envy who made a comment on Facebook after the SB, saying Anquan Boldin helped Baltimore win a SB, and then he asked has a Gator ever done that for an NFL team? :laugh: No, I'm serious, he really said that, because everything about FSU with him is comparing it to UF.

So I asked him if he'd ever heard of Emmitt Smith and he quickly quieted down. :laugh:

Btw, I remember Muschamp's first class at UF which was around #11 - #13 when you add in Jocoby Brissett, and the nolies were laughing their arses off saying how that class sucked too. lol

Remember the two or three nole-trolls who showed up over with their one-post screen-names making drive-by insults about our recruting class that year and how UF was done and over with before they got banned?

My, but Karma has a wicked sense of humor! LOL

But I guess non top 10 classes are fine when you consistently play mediocre ACC schedules every year. :roll:

Btw, I also said after Muschamp's first class that he would out-recruit FSU for the next couple of years too, in spades as a matter of fact, and he has. :yes:

[AuldG8R]

Hey Blackblack, you forgot Scout which had you at 16.

[Blackblack]

Hey Blackblack, you forgot Scout which had you at 16.

Haven't looked at Scout in years. What did Scout have UF at?

Seems Scout, ESPN, 247, and Rivals averages out to 10.5. For 3 of the major 4 to say top 10, I think it's splitting hairs to criticize those saying top 10.

(I think being critical of the OL/meeting needs there is valid. The class aside from that is fine, especially considering they lost 6 coaches overall and 2 of them being their best recruiters. I guess to everyone except Gator fans.)

[AuldG8R]

^^ Wasn't saying anything about UF ranking. You were trying to show the clown college had a top ten class while leaving out the worst ranking. I believe clown college did well considering what they lost in coaching. Time will tell.

[BobK89]

Clowntown can crow about their recruiting. We'll just beat their asses again in November.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[Blackblack]

3 out of the 4 major sites do say consensus top 10. Scout has UF 8th, which is another example of why I don't even check there anymore. UF's class is legit top 5.

Agree. Time will tell about everything else. Though I am pretty confident FSU's OL will be pretty bad in 2015.

[tallygator]

The world could have been ending tomorrow and the Tallahassee paper would still headline the supposed wonderful class Dumbo has brought in.
The problem w/ recruiting is stars get in fans eyes. There's a post on the board of the ol ball coach's comment's about recruiting that are so true. Basically these rankings aren't as critical as what the recruits do later on the field.

[The_Graygator]

Clowntown can crow about their recruiting. We'll just beat their asses again in November.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry


Most likely, if the Gators continue to inject it's roster with concensus 4th and 5th ranked classes. FSU hasn't had a top 5 concensus class in the last two years, has an OL full of ham & egger players, poor secondary play, and pretty much a non-existant running game against quality defenses.

A #11 concensus class once in a while is one thing, but for an allegedly "elite" program like FSU to have a #10 and #11 class in back-to-back years and not address areas of glaring need is another. Sure, they'll once again be over-hyped at the beginning of the season, but I doubt they'll get a top 5 ranking this time around after the way they've managed to blow it early in the season the past two years. Probably a top 10 ranking I suspect.

When they lose at Clemson, then probably lose to some mediocre ACC team, they'll most likely not see the top 10 again next season after that. You see, they can have a "supposed" shot at a MNC with the pathetically weak schedule they play every year, but the fact is, they don;t have the consistent year-in and year-out top 5 talent they need to actually win a NC.

If they really had that kind of talent this past season, they'd have beaten all of their opponents by 30+ points a game, and wouldn't have lost to NC State. Their talent isn't on a consistent level throughout their roster, it's unbalanced.

[Blackblack]

FSU has had pretty good secondary play. It certainly hasn't been "poor".

And fwiw, what do you consider a "top consensus class."? You say FSU had a consensus 10 and 11 class back to back years, but FSU's class was ranked 2nd by ESPN, 2nd by 247, and 6th by Rivals in 2012. The same class had the highest star average in the nation by Scout.

I'm no star gazer, because retaining kids and developing them is just as important as landing them, but I don't really get the points you are making re: bringing in top talent.

Unless you are talking just about high school OL.

I agree 100% that it won't matter about the other talent if the OL is going to get overmatched. If Trickett isn't replaced or they fail to hit another homerun in the JUCO ranks (Watson is looking like he's going to be a 1st or 2nd round pick after 1 year at FSU), then 2015 is likely to be a repeat of 2011, in which the OL was absolutely awful.

[GatorDoc74]

Serious question: What happened to Trickett? My Gator bias aside, he was considered to be a very good OL coach at one time, before he arrived in Tallahassee. He certainly has lots of experience at the college level. I can understand Gator fans trashing him, but lots of FSU fans seem to feel the same way. Why have his O lines underachieved? Talent gap, or coaching?

[atlantagator86]

FSU had a good class! Their average star rating was not really that far behind UF.

But there are 2 differences. UF had 7 more guy in the class (actually 11 if you add the 2 new signees from today, plus the 2 OL transfers) and the fact that they struck out at several positions of need.

[Blackblack]

Serious question: What happened to Trickett? My Gator bias aside, he was considered to be a very good OL coach at one time, before he arrived in Tallahassee. He certainly has lots of experience at the college level. I can understand Gator fans trashing him, but lots of FSU fans seem to feel the same way. Why have his O lines underachieved? Talent gap, or coaching?

I blame some of Trickett's failures on Jimbo Fisher. Fisher is ultimately in charge of recruiting OL, which isn't a strength of Trickett, and there have been detailed breakdowns by FSU fans of the offers that Jimbo signs off on. Jimbo routinely extends offers to tons of linebackers, receivers, running backs, QBs, and CBs, but the offers to OL are substantially below the other positions. Trickett has a harsh personality which seems to chase away the top OL recruits that are recruited by Bama, Georgia, Florida, etc, and when those guys are signed away, FSU doesn't have any Plan B's because they haven't extended the offers.

Jimbo admitted during his signing day conference that they didn't even look at 2013 OL recruit Wilson Bell's tape until January. That's pretty lazy for such a key position.

It eventually leads to FSU having to settle on Plan C recruits that are either lacking in talent or size. And lately, switching players from TE and DL to OL.

Trickett actually is a good coach. He made a basketball player (Menelik Watson) into a 1st or 2nd round pick in one year. He turned undersized and underrecruited Rodney Hudson into a top NFL prospect. He turned underrecruited Datko into a good player (before Datko got injured). He took a DT in Cam Erving, and in one season, turned him into an All ACC tackle in 2012. The guy is actually a good coach.

And he has produced some solid lines in 2010 and 2012.

The main problem is you can't be 100% in development, and while his coaching may be good enough to take one or two Plan C guys and turn them into players, he isn't a miracle worker than can take 5 and turn them into that.

He's working with a lack of talent and size to start with. In the case of Bobby Hart, we were forced to start a 16 year old freshman at OT. Some of that is on Trickett because he isn't a good recruiter. He's a military style guy and that rubs many recruits the wrong way. But some of that is on Jimbo Fisher because he isn't doing enough to bring in talented players for Trickett to coach up.

The other problem I see is that Jimbo Fishers offensive scheme doesn't mesh with Trickett's blocking scheme. Jimbo tries to have a multiple offense that includes pro-style philosophies along with spread stuff, but Trickett's blocking scheme is mostly geared toward spread stuff, so when Jimbo actually tries to do power stuff, it usually fails. It's comical watching Jimbo run stretch plays with Wilder, who would prolly excel much more with the current offense that UF is running.

I personally think if FSU is going to win anything worthwhile with Jimbo, he is going to have to give up being an OC, and bring in a OL coach that can recruit. I think his ego and friendship with Tricket is hindering the entire offensive side of the ball, regardless of what the numbers said in 2012.

[Gatuar]

Problem with FSU is that even if they sign the same players our players get better each year playing elite competition each week

There's stay the same

It shows on the field

[geauxgator1]

Kind of quiet these day in Clown town.. All is well with the universe again.

[wci347]

It's all a guessing game. It comes down to who can coach the personnel the best when you get on an elite level. Meyer left because he knew he could not continue to recruit and coach on an SEC level. He was smart. Some coaches like Jimbo Fisher struggle to hold their own in the ACC. It comes down to expectations. Many HS players go to programs based upon expectations. That is why a Dabo has so much success. The expectations at Clemson are to simply compete well. He will be there forever, and if he never does anything more than he has, it's okay. Players like that laid back if we do fine if we don't fine atmosphere.

At other programs the "if we do or don't" atmosphere is unacceptable. There are so many coaches that have won national championships in this era that are still coaching. Some are at programs that are trying to shed the "if we do or don't" aura. But then there are coaches who although they haven't won a NC as head coach, because they are driven, coach at programs where anything less than that goal or a distinct movement towards that goal, is considered underachievement.

You don't place yourself as the head coach in waiting at Texas and then head coach of Florida without that specific goal in mind.

[The_Graygator]

Problem with FSU is that even if they sign the same players our players get better each year playing elite competition each week

There's stay the same

It shows on the field

Watching their defense get torched by both Clemson (especially their secondary), and then by UF (their DL), goes to show you that they aren;t quite as talented as some would want you to believe. The only reason their defense was so highly ranked last season was because of the pathetic competition they faced. When they faced quality, talented teams, they either got exposed or beat.

#10 and #11 classes doesn't cut it when you want to be an elite program.

[gatordee]

WM said there were other 4 star or highly rated players that wanted into our program but they were not what we were looking for. WM could care less about the stars and I would not be surprised if this class ends up being the most successful of all them. I also believe we landed great players in positions of need which imo, is the most important. We know we will always have a top rated D. But for Peace to get the players he did for the offense will be huge for us. We landed some big time ol's and the strengths that our wr's had in common were rout running.

[Tebowism0823]

Watching their defense get torched by both Clemson (especially their secondary), and then by UF (their DL), goes to show you that they aren;t quite as talented as some would want you to believe. The only reason their defense was so highly ranked last season was because of the pathetic competition they faced. When they faced quality, talented teams, they either got exposed or beat.

#10 and #11 classes doesn't cut it when you want to be an elite program.

I wonder if they started paying minimum wage?

[rpmGator]

Debating how far behind you are, still means you are behind.

[tilly]

My guess is they are ranked somewhere between 37-26. :wink:

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

[Freddy02]

It may just be that after 30+ years of institutionalized cheating under Bobby have possibly ended and kids that can't get into an average college know they may actually have to take normal classes at FSU. Their recruiting will suffer.

[DangerDays10]

I've always found it funny how someone comes on to a GATOR board and talks about FSU. Geez.

[gator7_5]

You're really surpirsed that rivals are discussed on a football message board?

[Blackblack]

#10 and #11 classes doesn't cut it when you want to be an elite program.

Again. Where are you getting that from? The 2012 class was consensus top 5.

[The_Graygator]

My guess is they are ranked somewhere between 37-26. :wink:

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country


:laugh: ~rimshot~

[The_Graygator]

I've always found it funny how someone comes on to a GATOR board and talks about FSU. Geez.



And when they're obviously one of the warchant groupies who play over here under multiple screen-names, it's Filter City without hesitation too. :yes: I'm just not even going to bother engaging them or wasting my time on their nonsense.

But yes, it's hilarious when they come over here because their entire existance is about comparing themselves to their big brother UF. Little brother syndrome at it's finest. They are absolutely obsessed with the Gators.

But #10 and #11 back-to-back recruiting classes will do that to you I guess. :laugh:

[Blackblack]

I like college football. I like discussion about college football. I post on Ten, Ark, Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, UF, and LSU forums. It's fun, especially during the off-season.

It's easy to talk about syndromes or whatever. But resorting to making up things (#10 and #11 back-to-back recruiting classes) speaks more to a syndrome than a friendly discussion.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

FSU had a good class! Their average star rating was not really that far behind UF.

But there are 2 differences. UF had 7 more guy in the class (actually 11 if you add the 2 new signees from today, plus the 2 OL transfers) and the fact that they struck out at several positions of need.

FSU had a solid class. They also benefit from not having to deal with seven or eight other teams not finishing in the top 15-like us. Nobody else in the ACC is recruiting at FSU's level, except maybe Clemson. So, the 'Noles can have a transitional year, miss out on a few key targets, and still be the ACC's most talented teams four out of every five years.

The gap is widening between the SEC and everybody else. There was a time when USC, Ohio State, Texas and OU recruited well enough to at least keep pace with the SEC. Now, only Ohio State looks to keep up. Texas and OU are sagging programs, and USC will be held back by Lane Kiffin. The Trojans will never be a factor in the national title chase under Lane.

How long will Kelly be in South Bend? Will he bolt for the pros after next year? Does anybody believe Michigan will be a national power under Hoke? Who's actually going to threaten the SEC?

[The_Graygator]

It may just be that after 30+ years of institutionalized cheating under Bobby have possibly ended and kids that can't get into an average college know they may actually have to take normal classes at FSU. Their recruiting will suffer.


Their recruiting hasn't really been anywhere near the "Bowden Standard" level since Jimbo has taken over. Yeah, he had what was a concensus top 5 class a couple of years ago, but overall, they haven't really been all that consistent in recruiting since Bowden left.

As I said before, #10 and #11 classes are fine if you want to compete in the ACC.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Their recruiting hasn't really been anywhere near the "Bowden Standard" level since Jimbo has taken over. Yeah, he had what was a concensus top 5 class a couple of years ago, but overall, they haven't really been all that consistent in recruiting since Bowden left.

As I said before, #10 and #11 classes are fine if you want to compete in the ACC.

I don't know, man. Rivals seems to be the most reputable source people parrot around on this board, and they've ranked FSU's classes in the top ten each of the last five years. They also finished two years ago with a haul many argued to be the top class in the country. Others have been top-five classes. That's pretty good, and that's about as good as teams like LSU, Auburn and Georgia have done.

That'll get them ten wins and an orange bowl berth every year.

[gator85jd]

I don't know, man. Rivals seems to be the most reputable source people parrot around on this board, and they've ranked FSU's classes in the top ten each of the last five years. They also finished two years ago with a haul many argued to be the top class in the country. Others have been top-five classes. That's pretty good, and that's about as good as teams like LSU, Auburn and Georgia have done.

That'll get them ten wins and an orange bowl berth every year.

Well, Spurrier used to wonder aloud what happened to all that talent the poodles signed after it got to Athens. Same could be asked about all the talent when it gets to Tallahassee.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Well, Spurrier used to wonder aloud what happened to all that talent the poodles signed after it got to Athens. Same could be asked about all the talent when it gets to Tallahassee.

Oh, I agree that the 'Noles are among the most underachieving programs in all of college sports. That comes down to poor preparation and awful offensive execution, which of course is a result of poor coaching, and a lack of focus against teams they should have beaten over the years, but ultimately lost to.

I was just pointing out that there is no shortage of talent over there.

[The_Graygator]

I don't know, man. Rivals seems to be the most reputable source people parrot around on this board, and they've ranked FSU's classes in the top ten each of the last five years. They also finished two years ago with a haul many argued to be the top class in the country. Others have been top-five classes. That's pretty good, and that's about as good as teams like LSU, Auburn and Georgia have done.

That'll get them ten wins and an orange bowl berth every year.

I'm talking concensus, the average ranking after the numerous classes have been tallied. You can't just toss out one because you don't like it IMO. That's sort of like FSU changing their school's start date so they can be "older" than Florida. :wink:

NSD Final (10:30 PM EST) - Top 12 based on the combined rankings of ESPN, 247 Sports, Rivals, and Scout:

1. Alabama 1+1+1+3=6
2. Ohio State 3+5+2+1=11
3. Notre Dame 4+3+3+4=14
4. Florida 2+4+4+8=18
5. Michigan 6+8+5+2=21
6. Mississippi 5+2+7+9=23
7. Louisiana State 7+6+6+6T=25
8. Texas A&M 8+7+10+6T=31
9. UCLA 12+11+11+5=39
10. Auburn 11+10+8+13=42
11. Florida State 9+9+9+16=43
12. Georgia 10+12+12+10=44

ETGator

[gator85jd]

I was just pointing out that there is no shortage of talent over there.

So was I.

[Blackblack]

I'm talking concensus, the average ranking after the numerous classes have been tallied. You can't just toss out one because you don't like it IMO. That's sort of like FSU changing their school's start date so they can be "older" than Florida. :wink:

Based on that, you're still wrong.

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2nd by ESPN, 2nd by 247, 6th by Rivals, 11th by Scout, equals 5.25. Consensus Top 5 class in 2012.

Using the 4 sites, the top 5 averages out to

1. Alabama (1,1,1,2) 1.25

2. Texas (3,2,3,1) 2.25

3. Florida (4,3,4,5) 4

4. Ohio State (6,4,5,3) 4.5

5. Florida State (2, 2, 6, 11) 5.25

The programs closest to the top five include Georgia (9.25), Michigan (6.25), Miami (9), and USC (10), among others.

[The_Graygator]

I wonder if they started paying minimum wage?


For back to back #10 and #11 concensus classes?

It looks like it. :laugh: