Does Kaepernick's success favour Tim's future?

[Bazza]

All this talk about the option-read system - why isn't Tim in the discussion?

Colin arguably has the edge in passing skill - but other than that I would think the same system could be used with Tim as QB.

With the 49ers in the Super Bowl I would think this is a valid POV.

Thanks for any input.

Edit: Of course he would have to have a good head coach and staff that supported him and the system, like the 49ers do.

[Spurffelbow833]

You're beating a dead horse. Tim Tebow is to sports media as Ron Paul is to news media. If he walks on water, they'll say he can't swim.

[gatorfansrule]

It may help a little bit, but I don't think it helps all that much. People say that Kap can be a pocket QB when he has to and they say/think that Tebow can't. They think he's a running back that plays QB. I personally think they are wrong, but they won't change their mind.

[whitelakegator]

Was listening to sports talk radio last night and they were going over some advanced passing metrics for CK and he is off the charts. I have no idea what it is called but it had to do with passes under thrown and overthrown. They said it was amazing since he has only ten starts to his name.

[Gatorrick22]

You're beating a dead horse. Tim Tebow is to sports media as Ron Paul is to news media. If he walks on water, they'll say he can't swim.

BFS!

This proves that Tebow's success in Denver was real and needs to be revisited by another team.

[speedytilian87]

All this talk about the option-read system - why isn't Tim in the discussion?

Colin arguably has the edge in passing skill - but other than that I would think the same system could be used with Tim as QB.

With the 49ers in the Super Bowl I would think this is a valid POV.

Thanks for any input.

Edit: Of course he would have to have a good head coach and staff that supported him and the system, like the 49ers do.

Arguably? Have you seen the guy throw?

As for having no other edge, what? Have you seen the guy run? Kid has legit 4.5 speed and runs away from safeties. Stop.

Tim's problem is *reportedly* he stinks it up in practice and currently has an arrogant head coach who refuses to play him. When he moves to another organization he'll likely be in a similar spot because.. He's not a practice player and unless a team is absolutely tanking coaches aren't going to trust him based of "hype." A read-option system would be nice if someone were willing to duplicate the success of what Kaepernick is doing in SF, but eventually NFL DCs will catch up.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I mean he replaced Alex Smith who was, before Tebow, the archetype Meyer spread option QB.

[SwampFox]

I hate to say it, but Tim's future may be history in this league, valid or not. Please count me in the NOT category.

There is too much negative publicity he brings to a team at this point and coaches simply will not beleive the positives outweight the minuses.

Sucks for sure but he is resilient young man and will excel in whatever direction he takes...

[GatorLaw]

No. The trouble is that guys like Wilson and Kaepernick can pass and run. Tim can run but his passing is questionable at best. Unfortunately I think his time in the NFL is over for now, maybe a strong showing in Canada could bring him back but I just don't see another NFL team being interested in him right now.

[AFCyberGator]

It will take a very special coach to take a chance (again) on Tim Tebow as a starter. Timmy's boat sailed away when he was traded to the J-E-T-S. Timmy is now at the mercy of the free agent market, assuming the inevitable happens and he becomes a free agent.

We see that Tebow can run the read-option, but for the most part, the "experts" believe the myth that he can only run the "Urban Meyer option" or the "NFL wildcat". I cannot have an intelligent conversation with anyone at work who watches ESPN, because they are led to believe that Florida ran an option offense and that he never threw many passes. If we say otherwise, we are accused of orange & blue bias.

Here is what Tebow can do:
- Deep outs, deep posts
- Medium seam passes and skinny posts
- Zone read plays like Kaepernick, except the passes below
- Power draws

Here is what Tebow needs work on or is not as good as Kaepernick:
- Anticipatory passes over the middle
- Corner posts
- Certain crossing routes
- Screens
- Scrambling outside the tackles

[whitelakegator]

If you make Timmy pass to beat you, he seems to struggle reading defenses and making the throws. He had a great run with Denver but that completion % just won't cut it.

CK is way faster than Tebow and it isn't close. Man, I wish Tebow the very best and wish things could be different.

[Sylez_G_Koolaid]

Over/under on how many pages this thread goes to?

[TheSchmidt]

Kaepernick has elite arm talent.

Unfortunately, the two aren't close.

[antny]

I actually don't think Tim can read defenses fast enough but his completion percentage is a tired stat. Its been said several times yet its still overlooked but many of the great qbs had similar completion percentages their early years, the most notably being john elway

[Bazza]

Over/under on how many pages this thread goes to?

Depends on how many drive-thrus we have with no real contribution to the thread.

:asleep:

[iam4uf]

Most of you have no idea about what really went on with Tebow. He purposely threw "bad" passes to reduce his INT rate. This was at the request of John Fox, notoriously conservative in regard to taking chances.

Here's where Tebow ranks all-time (among QB's that have thrown 50+ INT's):
INT/Attempts - 2.49%, 8th
INT/Incomplete - 4.78%, 1st (next closest QB is 9.8%)

[geauxgator1]

Too many guys in this board come form the Merrill Hoge school of broadcasting. Yes, I think Kaepernick's success can only positively effect TT's chances. Why would they hurt him. Anyone who says otherwise is a troll.

[Spurffelbow833]

Too many guys in this board come form the Merrill Hoge school of broadcasting. Yes, I think Kaepernick's success can only positively effect TT's chances. Why would they hurt him. Anyone who says otherwise is a troll.

It's not a matter of what logic dictates. It's a matter of knowing how many people in the NFL with real influence in the matter might as well be stumps like Hoge in terms of applying reason to this issue. People want to see Tebow play, whether it's to root for him or hope he falls on his face. Another chance would be profitable for all involved. But no.

[geauxgator1]

It's not a matter of what logic dictates. It's a matter of knowing how many people in the NFL with real influence in the matter might as well be stumps like Hoge in terms of applying reason to this issue. People want to see Tebow play, whether it's to root for him or hope he falls on his face. Another chance would be profitable for all involved. But no.

I agree it's not a matter of logic or reasoning, it confounding,but not unexpected.

[gandergator]

Tim expresses his moral and spritual values, This sports world can't stand that.

[DrewLaing]

I don't think it helps very much...Tebow doesn't have as strong of an arm as Kaepernick. That's what helps set CK apart, I think

[dakcman]

I don't think it helps very much...Tebow doesn't have as strong of an arm as Kaepernick. That's what helps set CK apart, I think

Kaepernick has a stronger arm, is more accurate, has a quicker release, can read a defense, and is faster than Tim.

That's about it, though.

[ib4ut1]

Tim expresses his moral and spritual values, This sports world can't stand that.

I disagree. If Tim could produce in the NFL, they wouldn't care if he were a high priest of Satan.

I love Tebow. I am a Christian and I admire him greatly. But to believe that there is this giant conspiracy against Tebow involving the whole NFL is not too likely.

He was the greatest college quarterback in college in mho. But there is a huge difference between college and the NFL. I played college football (D2), and talking to a couple of guys I know that are playing/have played in the pros, there is no comparison. The speed is vastly greater in the NFL. It is similar to playing in a small high school (me) and trying to adjust even to D2 speed. It was very diffcult and honestly, I didn't do too well.

Tebow will do well in life, I have no doubt. Great young man!

[geauxgator1]

I don't think it helps very much...Tebow doesn't have as strong of an arm as Kaepernick. That's what helps set CK apart, I think

Tebow has a very strong arm. that's never been his problem.

[UFreak]

It does help Tebow's chances. The read option almost won the Super Bowl. Teams will be using it more and more and if Tim doesn't get to start for a team, he will at least be a good back up option for teams. He is a system guy who can allow for continuity in an offense if the starter goes down.

[geauxgator1]

It does help Tebow's chances. The read option almost won the Super Bowl. Teams will be using it more and more and if Tim doesn't get to start for a team, he will at least be a good back up option for teams. He is a system guy who can allow for continuity in an offense if the starter goes down.

That's the point exactly.

[GATORDONE]

No cause one can throw the other cant in the nfl . It's unfortunate

[whitelakegator]

Read option? San Fran runs the Pistol. They may run the read out of the pistol but they are running the pistol. And no offense to Tim but CK throws way better than Tim.

And those that try to rationalize Tebow's completion percentage by bringing up ancient QBs. Do you think the game is anywhere close nowadays especially in the passing area? This was CK's tenth start and he looked pretty darn good vs a pretty great defense.

[Gatuar]

Only thing Tim does better than Kap is run with power

Tims intermediate and short passing skills never really progressed

Think he can win some games in a system like San Fran's but he simply can't make the tight window throws on most of the route tree

[UFreak]

Read option? San Fran runs the Pistol. They may run the read out of the pistol but they are running the pistol. And no offense to Tim but CK throws way better than Tim.

And those that try to rationalize Tebow's completion percentage by bringing up ancient QBs. Do you think the game is anywhere close nowadays especially in the passing area? This was CK's tenth start and he looked pretty darn good vs a pretty great defense.

Yes, they run A LOT of read option out of the pistol formation. So much so, that it's read option as much as anything else. I mean, one of the advantages of the pistol is to specifically allow the QB to run the read option effectively because of where he receives the snap from the shotgun.

Not saying Tim will land a starting job next year. But there is enough of what Tim can do in the league now that it may net him a backup role somewhere.

[geauxgator1]

RGIII and Kaepernick's successes with the read option can only help, not hurt TT's chances. All teams are using it to some degree at this time, it seems.

[ufgator4ever]

Tim expresses his moral and spritual values, This sports world can't stand that.

Unless you are involved in murders, like Ray Lewis.

[1984Gator]

All this talk about the option-read system - why isn't Tim in the discussion?

Colin arguably has the edge in passing skill - but other than that I would think the same system could be used with Tim as QB.

With the 49ers in the Super Bowl I would think this is a valid POV.

Thanks for any input.

Edit: Of course he would have to have a good head coach and staff that supported him and the system, like the 49ers do.

Tim's next gig is most likely going to be in Canada!

[VanNoord]

Tim would do best with a supporting cast built around his unusual skill set. So you'd need another like him, or the team would suffer if he were injured. Hey, maybe the 49ers. ...

CK is a terrific quarterback, check back with him in two years. He had that deer in headlights thing on the sidelines tonight. Give Tim the edge in that dept.

[TheSchmidt]

The 49ers almost won the SB because CK has elite arm talent, not from the read option. The read option can be used in spots, but San Fran was here because CK can absolutely sling it with unreal velocity and accuracy.

[Spurffelbow833]

I disagree. If Tim could produce in the NFL, they wouldn't care if he were a high priest of Satan.

I wasn't aware that it was established that he can't produce in the NFL.

[Jonas]

I don't even think Kapernick really runs the read option. I'm pretty sure I read that they'll do a "zone-read" play, but it is predetermined that he will hand off the ball. Only a couple of times, does he actually read the DE and holds on to it if the DE crashes. They want to limit the hits he takes, and rightfully so.

He also has a much better arm than Tebow. Not sure Tebow could have made some of the throws that Kapernick made tonight.

[gatorbogey]

copy cat league. w/ RGIII and kaepernick's success, you'd think nfl teams would take a serious look at tebow

[gatordowneast]

Tim needs to go to Canada as several other QBs have done. Prove himself, win a championship or two, come back to NFL. Warren Moon and Doug Flutie come to mind. Both had as many doubters as Timmy.

[gatorbogey]

one thing that tebow does bring to the read/zone option is that he can run inside. RGIII and Kaep - their runs are designed to go outside predominately. kaep had one run to the inside and was rightfully stoned in his tracks, at least tebow could take on a tackler and deliver a blow back. having that added dimension could help in regards to how the DC's design their counter schemes

[gatormoe1]

LOL @ people saying Tebows NFL career is over.

[Dreamliner]

Kaep is going to be a force to be reckoned with. Too bad he elected to suck so bad on that last possession. You don't just roll out and throw it into a pile three times in a row.

[StrengthAndHonor]

It's amazing how often Tebow doubters overlook the fact that Tebow was rarely allowed to throw on 1st and 2nd down during his days with Denver. What do you think the completion percentage would be of even the most elite QB's in the league if they could only throw on 3rd and long? How is it that this is always so conveniently overlooked by the likes of Steven A. Smith and his non-stop 'Tebow Can't Throw' mantra? Fact is the kid took a down and out team to the playoffs in his first full season as starter and won a playoff game against the #1 ranked defense throwing the ball. That's not hype, that's not orange and blue bias, it's real concrete evidence that, at the very least, says this guy has earned the opportunity to prove it wasn't a fluke.

To answer the OP's question though, I don't think CK's success can hurt anything and might help Tim's cause. But ultimately I think Tebow mania may need to die down before a team takes a chance on the distraction he brings. In other words, Tim may have to disappear for a while.

[gatordee]

I do not believe TT's arm is as good as kaepernicks

[tegator80]

Not to diminish Tim's abilities but I think his best bet is to be released by the Jets and he gets picked up by NE as a "whatever" player. If Baltimore looked lost against the pistol then I could see teams scrambling for an athletic QB. Not today.

[Gatorrick22]

LOL @ people saying Tebows NFL career is over.

Exactly! These people aren't even fainting goats, they're brainless ESPiN lambs ready for the slaughter-house.

[gymgator]

If Tebow completed 15% more of his passes, then CK's success would be relevant. His sub 50% completion rate (despite drops & throwing it away to avoid sacks is higher than most) it is still deemed below average for a starting NFL QB.

Jets made it worse, as Sanchez struggles and Tebow STILL isn't used, implies Tebow is worse.

[Bazza]

Newsflash.........my friend in Elkhorn, WI says the Packers are interested in Tim!

Whoa that would be a fantastic opportunity.

All who say his NFL career is over.....nothing personal but :angry::angry::angry:

GO TIM! :yes:

[Bear1974]

If Tim is ever going to get any legit chance he needs two things -

1. An organization willing to go in 100% with him which has not happened yet.
2. Put players around him that would highlight his abilities on offense.

Unless an NFL team is willing to do any of those things then Tim is never going to get any chances in the NFL anymore.

Given the success of the pistol system this year with the Redskins and 49ers - you certainly see players like Tim that can succeed if given the legit opportunity which the 49ers and Redskins were willing to do.

But two main differences between Kaepernick and Tim is - arm strength and being able to get rid of the ball immediately i.e. don't hold the ball - anticipate the coverage and throw the ball immediately.

In my opinion - up to this point - I don't think Denver coaches or Jets Coaches wanted too or had any desire to coach Tim up at all and the moment any failures happened it was just an excuse not to play the guy. There seems to be this need to want Tim to fail - I don't get it and I will never get it but right now there is this perception that Tim would be a cancer to any roster - why - because he is popular, hard worker, and good guy - go figure - it does not make any sense to me either.

[tegator80]

Newsflash.........my friend in Elkhorn, WI says the Packers are interested in Tim!

Whoa that would be a fantastic opportunity.

All who say his NFL career is over.....nothing personal but :angry::angry::angry:

GO TIM! :yes:

That may work. I can see Aaron being amenable. Is Tim up to being a role player on a GB team?

[SwampFox]

Newsflash.........my friend in Elkhorn, WI says the Packers are interested in Tim!

Whoa that would be a fantastic opportunity.

All who say his NFL career is over.....nothing personal but :angry::angry::angry:

GO TIM! :yes:

Aaron is retiring?....lol............sounds like just a different clipboard to carry..........

[cstgator]

I do not believe TT's arm is as good as kaepernicks

Way to go out on a limb.

[cstgator]

If Tebow completed 15% more of his passes, then CK's success would be relevant. His sub 50% completion rate (despite drops & throwing it away to avoid sacks is higher than most) it is still deemed below average for a starting NFL QB.

Jets made it worse, as Sanchez struggles and Tebow STILL isn't used, implies Tebow is worse.

Or it could mean that the Jets didn't want to trot out a QB that wins when wins are irrelevant, thus throwing egg on their collective faces. When Sanchez was sucking all season, there was clamoring for Tebow to replace him, which never happened. Why bring out a possibly effective Tebow that wins meaningless games? All that would do would create more animosity towards the coaching staff and management for not playing him sooner.

[cstgator]

Aaron is retiring?....lol............sounds like just a different clipboard to carry..........

Well there's only 32 starting positions in the NFL. Being a 2nd or 3rd string QB on a playoff team is not exactly a bad thing. Still better than playing in Canada, only an injury(ies) away from starting.

[SwampFox]

Well there's only 32 starting positions in the NFL. Being a 2nd or 3rd string QB on a playoff team is not exactly a bad thing. Still better than playing in Canada, only an injury(ies) away from starting.

Tim's a player ...............hard to picture him just being a career backup at a place with a guy he will never supplant except during injury spells, which one never wishes for.

I'd rather see him get a shot elsewhere once the whole "Tebow" thing continues to dissapate and he becomes more of just another guy on the roster, if indeed that could ever happen...

Otherwise, Canada will be his only option I think other than AFL, dare I say..

[whitelakegator]

I think he would easily be a back up somewhere. The problem is the all the hoopla he brings...the circus. It would be irrelevant in NO, GB, NE, ATL, etc. There's nothing wrong with being a career back up for 8-10 years. Even at league min you are set for life.

[Bazza]

Aaron is retiring?....lol............sounds like just a different clipboard to carry..........

SF:

Are you saying a team cannot have more than 1 QB on the depth chart?

Or that Tim cannot play any other position than QB?

:huh:

[Bazza]

I think he would easily be a back up somewhere. The problem is the all the hoopla he brings...the circus. It would be irrelevant in NO, GB, NE, ATL, etc. There's nothing wrong with being a career back up for 8-10 years. Even at league min you are set for life.

WLG:

Good post - I agree.

This "circus" stigma has been way over-exaggerated.

It was only a "circus" because he was on a team that was run by idiots in a huge market with fans who expected more - especially when their starter lost almost all their games and Tim still stayed on the bench. :huh:

He gets on a team with an established "franchise" QB and is utilized properly including good coaching and no more "circus".

Where it goes from there depends.

I don't remember Eli Manning coming into the league as such a great QB. These things take time and being on the right team.

[whitelakegator]

WLG:

Good post - I agree.

This "circus" stigma has been way over-exaggerated.

It was only a "circus" because he was on a team that was run by idiots in a huge market with fans who expected more - especially when their starter lost almost all their games and Tim still stayed on the bench. :huh:

He gets on a team with an established "franchise" QB and is utilized properly including good coaching and no more "circus".

Where it goes from there depends.

I don't remember Eli Manning coming into the league as such a great QB. These things take time and being on the right team.

You have all these people demanding Tim a starting spot. There are only 32 and right now...GMs have decided against him starting. It may change. It may not but I'd be surprised if he's not picked up by one of the "set" teams(add Pitt and Ravens to that list). He'll be had for cheap and a Jim Caldwell or Bill B....who knows? I just think he'll land somewhere with a diminished role. but hey, that's ok.

[sleeze]

With the Spread option...and the read option in full force with a few teams.

Why wouldn't the Seahawks, 49ers, Panthers, Redskins,,Whoever Michael Vick is playing for,,,at least sign Tebow as a backup.

With teams running there QB more...there going to have to have a backup with the same skillset to run the offense w/o skipping a beat.

[geauxgator1]

No one is "demanding" he get a spot, just a fair shot. That's a lot to ask for, I realize. He'll land somewhere, I have to believe. Oh, how's that number #1 QB pick doing in St. Louis these days? Just as a thought. I have to believe the Rams would be better off with Tebow.

[geauxgator1]

one thing that tebow does bring to the read/zone option is that he can run inside. RGIII and Kaep - their runs are designed to go outside predominately. kaep had one run to the inside and was rightfully stoned in his tracks, at least tebow could take on a tackler and deliver a blow back. having that added dimension could help in regards to how the DC's design their counter schemes

Good point. However, he's not as effective going outside as Kaeperncik or RGIII, but he can go outside if need be, whereas the other 2 can't go inside.

[GatorLaw]

Too many guys in this board come form the Merrill Hoge school of broadcasting. Yes, I think Kaepernick's success can only positively effect TT's chances. Why would they hurt him. Anyone who says otherwise is a troll.

I don't think anyone is saying the success of Kaepernick et al will hurt Tim, just that the successes of others won't help him because he doesn't seem to possess the critical skill that they have, i.e. a great passing game to go with the running.

[96Gatorcise]

I don't think anyone is saying the success of Kaepernick et al will hurt Tim, just that the successes of others won't help him because he doesn't seem to possess the critical skill that they have, i.e. a great passing game to go with the running.

It my not hurt him but I do not think it helps him.

Take this year's draft, the QB's coming out are weak this year. Most are passer's with exception of Colin Klein of K state.

Klein is in the same mold as Tebow, he is a bruiser who can run and has marginal to avg passing skills.

NFL scouts and teams have already let it be known that they are not interested in his skill set.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/8729005/collin-klein-kansas-state-wildcats-unlikely-get-senior-bowl-invite-source
The reason the Senior Bowl is expected to pass on Klein are some of the same reasons he is not expected to be a high draft pick. Scouts are concerned about his throwing motion and passing abilities, even though he was good enough to elevate an entire football program and enable it to compete for a national championship.

[VolsFan07]

Tim expresses his moral and spritual values, This sports world can't stand that.

This is not true. Tim Tebow is a media darling because of his morals and faith. Despite not being a starter right now, his jersey is still one of the highest selling in the league. He gets plenty of attention. His faith and morals are NOT the reason he is not getting a shot again right now.

[Gatorstew]

Yes, they run A LOT of read option out of the pistol formation. So much so, that it's read option as much as anything else. I mean, one of the advantages of the pistol is to specifically allow the QB to run the read option effectively because of where he receives the snap from the shotgun.

Not saying Tim will land a starting job next year. But there is enough of what Tim can do in the league now that it may net him a backup role somewhere.

Call it what you want, but it still takes stellar QB play to succeed consistently. Can we sit here and honestly say that Tebow is in the same league as CK? Some may say the read-option almost won the super bowl. I say that CK's incredible scrambling ability, laser arm, dead-eye accuracy, and quick decision-making almost won it. That's just way too much to account for on defense.

[gatorlaw71]

It's amazing how often Tebow doubters overlook the fact that Tebow was rarely allowed to throw on 1st and 2nd down during his days with Denver....

Do you think there just possibly might be a reason his coaches would rarely allow Tebow to throw on 1st and 2nd down with Denver, and weren't interested in him throwing at all with the Jets?

Do you think there just possibly might be a reason why teams weren't lined up around the block to bid for Tebow when Denver wanted to trade him?

[UFreak]

Call it what you want, but it still takes stellar QB play to succeed consistently. Can we sit here and honestly say that Tebow is in the same league as CK? Some may say the read-option almost won the super bowl. I say that CK's incredible scrambling ability, laser arm, dead-eye accuracy, and quick decision-making almost won it. That's just way too much to account for on defense.

I don't think anything you quoted from me runs contrary to what your statement is???
The one thing I will say though, as I have from the beginning in this thread, is that Tim's skill set is now more in demand than it was two or three years ago. If you have a team running a specific kind of offense, then you want to have backups who can run that offense. Tim, I think, will stay in the league because he has value as a backup running the read option. If your starting QB goes down and he runs the pistol and the read option out of the pistol, you would think it would be advantageous for consistency's sake to have the backup QBs be able to run the same offense.
Right?
If that is the case, then the OP is right.

[Jonas]

I really do think something happened with Tim's development his senior year. He was throwing into tight windows and making insanely accurate passes against Bama and OU in the SEC and BCS CGs. But I haven't really seen that from him since. It's like he needs his WRs to be wide open before he attempts anything out of fear of turning it over. I understand that you don't want to turn the ball over, but being gun shy can be just as bad.

[nflgator]

My opinion:
If you look at modern 'so called' great QB's .. they are not reading defense like most of us think they are. There is a great deal of study - of their WR's and RB's while also doing extensive study of their opponents CB's, S's and LB's. This is radically different from college. It is made into a science. When the QB lines up and looks at the D he is aware of his first couple of options immediately. Watch Brady and others - they get the ball & usually throw it immediately. They cannot do three level reads in 2 two 3 seconds. Much of it depends on prior analisys.

[SwampFox]

SF:

Are you saying a team cannot have more than 1 QB on the depth chart?

Or that Tim cannot play any other position than QB?

:huh:

I'm saying that there is only one on the field at a time. He will not replace Rodgers at GB. He will be on the bench.

Tim is a player. Playing means most to him. I do not think sitting is enough for him, weekely check or not. I could be wrong though.

Can he make it at another position? I do not think he wants too. An what position are you thinking he has the necessary experience eand skillset for anyway other than qb??

[StrengthAndHonor]

Do you think there just possibly might be a reason his coaches would rarely allow Tebow to throw on 1st and 2nd down with Denver

No doubt they had their reasons, care to surmise? The real question you should be asking yourself is would Tebow have the same paltry completion percentage had he had more freedom to throw on 1st and 2nd? Another 5-10 percentage points and we are having a much different discussion about Tebow today.

and weren't interested in him throwing at all with the Jets?

I can give you several actually, most of which have less to do with Tebow and more to do with Sanchez and Ryan.

Do you think there just possibly might be a reason why teams weren't lined up around the block to bid for Tebow when Denver wanted to trade him?

Gosh, maybe that paltry completion percentage I spoke of earlier? You know, the one that was a result of having to make unlikely throw after throw on 3rd and long?

[petro]

Try to think of Tim's situation from an NFL historical perspective. What QB has come into the league with a universally questioned college-to-NFL pedigree but were shunned and criticized from t minus one like TT? And of those, who has actually succeeded? The only 2 I can come up with even being close to TT's situation are Warner and Flutie. I look at how they handled their situations and were patient and worked and overcame to the degree which each achieved. I still don't see it ending well for Tim. And I'm a glass half full type.