Digger just said UF is the best team in the nation..

[gator7_5]

On sportscenter. He said eventhough Michigan will be ranked #1, the gators are the best team right now. Says D wins championships, but that we can also score. I always enjoy listening to DF, this just proves how smart he is.

[gogators73]

I hope we handle the success of being highly ranked better than other teams have this year (including ourselves). Today will be the highest we've been ranked all season.

[Go2gtr]

He must not be listening to Miami fans.

[REM08]

So the blind squirrel found a nut. He's an old curmudgeon that needs to retire (not the only one).

[bmfgator]

BELIEVE!!

[rserina]

I tend to disagree that defense wins championships in hoops. Bad defense sure won't help you win, but it takes far more than good defense to win it all. That's why our recent offensive improvement has been encouraging. Part of it is simply the fact that we are playing twice a week now and getting into a rhythm, as opposed to the more random schedule of November and December.

But much of it I would attribute to Wilbekin establishing himself at the one. His ability to create off the bounce and score in the lane, though in general his increased aggressiveness in all phases of the offense, has really opened things up for others. Murphy is getting a ton of pick and pop opportunities off the staggered and high screens, Young is being used on more pick and rolls and lobs, Rosario and Boynton are getting more spot up looks on the wings and in the corners due to help against the pick and rolls.

[gator7_5]

I tend to disagree that defense wins championships in hoops. Bad defense sure won't help you win, but it takes far more than good defense to win it all. That's why our recent offensive improvement has been encouraging. Part of it is simply the fact that we are playing twice a week now and getting into a rhythm, as opposed to the more random schedule of November and December.

But much of it I would attribute to Wilbekin establishing himself at the one. His ability to create off the bounce and score in the lane, though in general his increased aggressiveness in all phases of the offense, has really opened things up for others. Murphy is getting a ton of pick and pop opportunities off the staggered and high screens, Young is being used on more pick and rolls and lobs, Rosario and Boynton are getting more spot up looks on the wings and in the corners due to help against the pick and rolls.

I think someone did a recent post showing the d rankings of the last 10 final fours. Something like all but 2 champs were top 10 in defense in the country. It's obviously a vital part of championship basketball.

[iam4uf]

UF will become the latest team to talk about, especially if we win the next couple of games. It's nice, but probably distracting to the goals of winning championships.

[gatorbogey]

in defense of defense: could be he's saying that good offensive teams, if they have an off night shooting, they go down to defeat, but a solid defensive team is more consistent and less likely to lose if their offense is having an off night.

[sgtfury]

On sportscenter. He said eventhough Michigan will be ranked #1, the gators are the best team right now. Says D wins championships, but that we can also score. I always enjoy listening to DF, this just proves how smart he is.

He said this because his ESPN crew will be doing the Ole Miss game Saturday.

[Bradass]

Is it possible college gameday will be in gainesville this weekend, or did they pick somewhere else to go?

[PowerGator]

Is it possible college gameday will be in gainesville this weekend, or did they pick somewhere else to go?

Doesn't Indiana play Michigan next Saturday? If so, I'll bet they will be there.

[InstiGATOR1]

I tend to disagree that defense wins championships in hoops.

Exactly as in all sports defense DOES NOT win championships. In basketball for example Wisconsin is not in the final four every year. You need an offense, you need a defense and they work together.

It is my theory that this old coaching bromide about defense comes in part because a bad team with a good defense will lose game more closely giving a stronger argument to give the coach more time. So it could be defense leads to longer coaching tenures though maybe not at schools like UF where fans expect championship level teams.

[REM08]

I think someone did a recent post showing the d rankings of the last 10 final fours. Something like all but 2 champs were top 10 in defense in the country. It's obviously a vital part of championship basketball.

You remember that correctly except that it was 8 of the last 10 national champs were either 1st or 2nd in offensive efficiency.

I think there's no diminishing the importance of offense or defense when it comes to winning the NCAA tournament. When it comes down to it, it appears that how many points you average per possession matters most, but the adage that "defense never takes a night off" is important as well. No team is immune to an off shooting night, but great defensive teams always show up and keep you in the game in spite of bad shooting.

[gator7_5]

Doesn't Indiana play Michigan next Saturday? If so, I'll bet they will be there.

They will be there. Not at the UF game. He said it becasue he believes it I think.

[Jonas]

Exactly as in all sports defense DOES NOT win championships. In basketball for example Wisconsin is not in the final four every year. You need an offense, you need a defense and they work together.

Exactly. The saying goes "offense wins games, defense wins championships." IMO, it was always suppose to imply you need BOTH to win a championship, not that a defense is all you need.

Most fans just care about offense because it's exciting, and defense is less glamorous. The intent of the saying was to show that you need both to be truly great. It doesn't mean the best defensive teams will win the most.

In bball, I'm pretty sure a team with a great offense but bad defense will go farther than a team with a great defense but bad offense. Look at FSU. They are normally a great defensive team, but still lose a ton of games because they can do crap on offense.

[gator7_5]

Exactly as in all sports defense DOES NOT win championships.

This is a basketball board, so we won't get into it here. But if you think you can win a MNC in college footbal without a top rated D, you're crazy. Same can't be said for offense. It may happen, rarely, but it's definitely the exception.

[MadduxFanII]

My thinking was always that a slow-em-down, all-defense, no-offense approach put you in a place where you were at once more capable of winning and losing a given game. It's hard to blow anyone out when your goal is to score 55 points. On the other hand, if you're only giving up 50 points a game, you're never really out of it. So it's a useful strategy for a team with lesser talent that is just trying to elevate its chances of winning.

Now, when you combine a great defense with a highly efficient offense, well, that's how you end up murdering people the way we've been this year.

[Lawdog88]

I like to see aggressive defensive basketball and love to see quick buckets off steals and forced turnovers. MissStake caught us a few times with that drill last game, and hopefully that sharpened our focus, i.e., that what we do to others can happen to us if we don't pay attention.

Good D also demoralizes and frustrates in a way that swishing a 3 does not, and shot clock violations - like we have been getting - are absolutely the bees' knees.

Like everyone else, I really appreciate our defensive emphasis this year and am truly amazed at the high level our guys work together. It is indeed a thing of beauty to behold.

[madgator]

Not sure if we are the best....but definitely one of the top 4 best with Kansas, Michigan, and Indiana

we can play and beat any of those teams, just don't know if we are so head and shoulders better than them to definitively say that we are the best.

it's a nice thought though

[gator7_5]

My thinking was always that a slow-em-down, all-defense, no-offense approach put you in a place where you were at once more capable of winning and losing a given game. It's hard to blow anyone out when your goal is to score 55 points. On the other hand, if you're only giving up 50 points a game, you're never really out of it. So it's a useful strategy for a team with lesser talent that is just trying to elevate its chances of winning.

Now, when you combine a great defense with a highly efficient offense, well, that's how you end up murdering people the way we've been this year.

I think that's what he was getting at. It's great D combined with an efficient O is why he was so high on us.

I think anyone realizes a great D with a crappy offense makes for a tough run in any sport.

[xenythx]

Balance wins championships.

Being able to play at different speeds on offense, inside and out, and being able to throw different defensive looks at your opponents is what wins championships. In today's game, teams are running so many different offenses and defenses, you have to be able to adapt game to game in order to be successful.

[Jonas]

This is a basketball board, so we won't get into it here. But if you think you can win a MNC in college footbal without a top rated D, you're crazy. Same can't be said for offense. It may happen, rarely, but it's definitely the exception.

Then how did Auburn win it?

[DrewLaing]

Other than Florida, I think Indiana and Michigan are the two best teams in the country. And although the Gators won't be ranked as high as Michigan, its hard to argue that they aren't playing the best basketball right now. Just lights out on both offense and defense.

[InstiGATOR1]

I think the best three teams are UF, KU, and IU/Michigan. The latter will sort itself out in conference play.

[Tebowism0823]

Then how did Auburn win it?

He said it may happen but not very much. As in Auburn would be an exception but not the norm.

[born2beagator]

You know, the loss to KSU is still a mystery to me the way this team has been playing.

[Jonas]

He said it may happen but not very much. As in Auburn would be an exception but not the norm.

Then the last part of his post completely negated his entire point. He said you'd have to be crazy to think you can win an nc without a top rated D, but Auburn did it.

[Jonas]

You know, the loss to KSU is still a mystery to me the way this team has been playing.

I think we were still recovering mentally from the tough loss to Zona.

[Tebowism0823]

Then the last part of his post completely negated his entire point. He said you'd have to be crazy to think you can win an nc without a top rated D, but Auburn did it.

I'd suggest reading it again; especially his last sentence.

[Go2gtr]

The more accurate cliche is: Offense sells tickets and the defense wins championships. You gotta have them both.

[gator7_5]

Then how did Auburn win it?

They also played Oregon, who wasn't an defensive juggernaut by any means. It happens, like I said, but look at UF. Best O in yrs (07), 4 losses and a heisman, our best defenses (06,08), 2 national championships. Our o was anything but spectacular this year, and we were 1 play from being undefeated.

Anyway, last post as I don't want to hijack my own thread..football defense debate certainly wasn't the intent.

[Jonas]

I'd suggest reading it again; especially his last sentence.

I suggest you do the same

[Jonas]

They also played Oregon, who wasn't an defensive juggernaut by any means. It happens, like I said, but look at UF. Best O in yrs (07), 4 losses and a heisman, our best defenses (06,08), 2 national championships. Our o was anything but spectacular this year, and we were 1 play from being undefeated.

Anyway, last post as I don't want to hijack my own thread..football defense debate certainly wasn't the intent.

Our defense in 07 was one of the worst in school history. Our D in 2009 was better than 08 but our O was significantly worse. LSUs d was just as good as last year, but their O was significantly worse.

The point is that you need both. Even Bamas offenses are great. They might not be explosive but they are efficient. You need balance like someone said.

[Tebowism0823]

I suggest you do the same

I don't need to. I actually comprehended it.

But like the OP said this isn't the forum so ill stop

[gator7_5]

Our defense in 07 was one of the worst in school history. Our D in 2009 was better than 08 but our O was significantly worse. LSUs d was just as good as last year, but their O was significantly worse.

The point is that you need both. Even Bamas offenses are great. They might not be explosive but they are efficient. You need balance like someone said.

Dammit I keep getting dragged back in.

UF's D in '09, 08, '12 and LSU's in '11 were all high caliber D's. All those teams were 1 loss teams too. LSU had a crappy O in '11. Florida had a crappy one in '12.

UF Total D in '07 was 34th (still the worst in recent years)
UF Total O in '12 was >100th

See a trend?

Of course you need some kind of offense to get to the top, but it in no way is as important as having a stout D to keep winning on a regular basis. It's really not debateable.

[Singaporegator]

I like to see aggressive defensive basketball and love to see quick buckets off steals and forced turnovers. MissStake caught us a few times with that drill last game, and hopefully that sharpened our focus, i.e., that what we do to others can happen to us if we don't pay attention.

Good D also demoralizes and frustrates in a way that swishing a 3 does not, and shot clock violations - like we have been getting - are absolutely the bees' knees.
.

The bees' knees? Who says the bees' knees? Jeez Louise!

[Matthanuf06]

Exactly. The saying goes "offense wins games, defense wins championships." IMO, it was always suppose to imply you need BOTH to win a championship, not that a defense is all you need.

Most fans just care about offense because it's exciting, and defense is less glamorous. The intent of the saying was to show that you need both to be truly great. It doesn't mean the best defensive teams will win the most.

In bball, I'm pretty sure a team with a great offense but bad defense will go farther than a team with a great defense but bad offense. Look at FSU. They are normally a great defensive team, but still lose a ton of games because they can do crap on offense.

I think you typically need both to win a championship. It's a scale. The better O you have the weaker you can be on D an vice versa. However you need to be really good in both.

The reason the phrase makes sense is due to how champions are crowned in CFB and CBB, or any one and done situation. In football and basketball you have to win many games in a row. Defense is FAR less volatile than offense and the way to win many games in a row is consistency.

In the NFL for example a great defense is less important because the playoffs are so short. The volatility of an offense is less likely, but still can, bite you in the butt. In longer series the better team is more likely to win (simple statistics) so consistency is less important.

[MJGator8104]

Is it possible college gameday will be in gainesville this weekend, or did they pick somewhere else to go?

At the beginning of the season, CGD showed a map of the cities (games) they were attending this season. UF was not one of them. I'm pretty sure that, unlike their football equivalent, they pick their places/teams to visit before the season and don't change them depending on how the season is actually going.

I could be wrong, tho...

[InstiGATOR1]

UF students and fans did not turnout in huge numbers to be ESPN's unpaid extras for Gameday a year or so back, so I will be surprised if they come back to UF any time soon.

[regurgigator]

I tend to disagree that defense wins championships in hoops. Bad defense sure won't help you win, but it takes far more than good defense to win it all. That's why our recent offensive improvement has been encouraging. Part of it is simply the fact that we are playing twice a week now and getting into a rhythm, as opposed to the more random schedule of November and December.

But much of it I would attribute to Wilbekin establishing himself at the one. His ability to create off the bounce and score in the lane, though in general his increased aggressiveness in all phases of the offense, has really opened things up for others. Murphy is getting a ton of pick and pop opportunities off the staggered and high screens, Young is being used on more pick and rolls and lobs, Rosario and Boynton are getting more spot up looks on the wings and in the corners due to help against the pick and rolls.


Yes, it's the best combination of offense and defense that wins championships.

But, I think when we say the Gators are playing "good defense" that we're vastly understating what kind of defense we're seeing them play. On the college level, I'm not sure I've ever seen better defense; and I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen as good!




Maybe some of those Georgetown teams with Ewing were better defensively? Syracuse's zone some years when they are long and athletic? Am I out in left field? :joecool:

[Bradass]

At the beginning of the season, CGD showed a map of the cities (games) they were attending this season. UF was not one of them. I'm pretty sure that, unlike their football equivalent, they pick their places/teams to visit before the season and don't change them depending on how the season is actually going.

I could be wrong, tho...

Nope you're right, I checked this out myself after I made that post. Mildly surprised by this

[bullish]

Digger thank you, but really, the best team in America. We are not. Right now Miami is playing rather well, I would hate to play Butler, Villanova, Arizona or better yet Louisville right now. Even Tenn, Ole Miss, Kentucky will give us a good game. We are not the best team in America.

The Florida Gators are a tough out, but one which when we come up to a talented team on the road, we tighen up. Evidence Arizona, Kansas State. We have to continue to build and improve as the year goes on. Develop some depth, by playing the freshmen some minutes early and and getting Prather well and hope we can get through the season without major injuries. Right now we are a top ten team that can blast anybody on a given night. The NCAA tournament will be the writing on the wall so Digger, not so fast my friend.

[rserina]

It is my theory that this old coaching bromide about defense comes in part because a bad team with a good defense will lose game more closely giving a stronger argument to give the coach more time. So it could be defense leads to longer coaching tenures though maybe not at schools like UF where fans expect championship level teams.
I think it arises from two things: A) You can't win with bad defense, and more importantly B) in a single game situation you take offense over defense because it is more dependable. At least, the latter is the case for football, where you can actually make the case that the better defenses ordinarily come out on top in the playoffs.

[rserina]

Yes, it's the best combination of offense and defense that wins championships.
That was more my point.

But, I think when we say the Gators are playing "good defense" that we're vastly understating what kind of defense we're seeing them play. On the college level, I'm not sure I've ever seen better defense; and I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen as good!
Not sure I can go that far back or speak nationally, but in terms of Florida defense this is the best group Donovan has had. We can man or zone, switch screens, hedge them, or fight over them, defend the rim and clean the defensive glass, press or pressure the ball. It is good, versatile, and balanced. Above all, it is active and tenacious.

We remind me mostly of the better teams Tubby Smith had at UK (in addition to the 09-10 Syracuse team I compared us to elsewhere), especially the 02-03 and 03-04 groups. Those Cat squads had plenty of talent, but more importantly they were experienced, athletic, and competitive. Hawkins on the ball, Fitch, Bogans, and Azubuike on the wing, Estil, Hayes, and Daniels in the paint. They could score inside and out, in transition or half-court. They could press you and pressure the ball, but they defended the ball in half-court as well as anyone. Two years in a row they were as good as any team in the nation, but lost to Dwayne Wade's Marquette team after Bogans got hurt, then Mike Anderson's version of the Richardson 40 minutes of hell.

I only hope we appreciate those teams better than the Tubby haters at UK did.

[regurgigator]

That was more my point.


Not sure I can go that far back or speak nationally, but in terms of Florida defense this is the best group Donovan has had. We can man or zone, switch screens, hedge them, or fight over them, defend the rim and clean the defensive glass, press or pressure the ball. It is good, versatile, and balanced. Above all, it is active and tenacious.

We remind me mostly of the better teams Tubby Smith had at UK (in addition to the 09-10 Syracuse team I compared us to elsewhere), especially the 02-03 and 03-04 groups. Those Cat squads had plenty of talent, but more importantly they were experienced, athletic, and competitive. Hawkins on the ball, Fitch, Bogans, and Azubuike on the wing, Estil, Hayes, and Daniels in the paint. They could score inside and out, in transition or half-court. They could press you and pressure the ball, but they defended the ball in half-court as well as anyone. Two years in a row they were as good as any team in the nation, but lost to Dwayne Wade's Marquette team after Bogans got hurt, then Mike Anderson's version of the Richardson 40 minutes of hell.

I only hope we appreciate those teams better than the Tubby haters at UK did.

Those were some great UK defenses/teams.

Speaking of hedging screens, one thing that has surprised me is how well Young and even the somewhat-slow-footed Murphy have covered (and covered for each other) the paint when one or the other is coming off double-teaming the screenee. They're doing it just about as well as Noah and Horford used to, and those two were GREAT at it!

Of course, Yeguete does it well too, but I expected that :happy:

[ThePlayer]

Not sure if we are the best....but definitely one of the top 4 best with Kansas, Michigan, and Indiana

we can play and beat any of those teams, just don't know if we are so head and shoulders better than them to definitively say that we are the best.

it's a nice thought though

How likely is it that Indiana & Michigan both come out of the Big Ten as #1's?

[rserina]

Speaking of hedging screens, one thing that has surprised me is how well Young and even the somewhat-slow-footed Murphy have covered (and covered for each other) the paint when one or the other is coming off double-teaming the screenee.
Completely, especially Murphy. He has really impressed me on that front. Physical, decisive, quick in recovery. I suspect Mizzou with Bowers' ability to pick and pop might have been a little more of a test.

[Lawdog88]

The bees' knees? Who says the bees' knees? Jeez Louise!


I also can do the jitterbug.

Top that ! :laugh:

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

I am glad the guys are getting some good pub. They are going to need to know how to handle it come tournament time, so might as well start now.

[GatorLurker]

Digger thank you, but really, the best team in America. We are not.

Wrong, but just between you and me.

We don't want the players or the fan base to get too riled up. In 1991 UNLV was by far the best team and they didn't win it all. Things like that happen.

Mums the word.

Oh, crap. I posted this on NBN instead of a Private Message.

Damn.

[tebowharvin]

They key difference in football and basketball is the concept of field possession. In football a great defense, especially one that creates turnovers or is indirectly supplemented with great special teams, HELPS the offense's chances. But in basketball the game is just trading possessions. Only wild turnovers, in basketball, that lead to fast breaks are nearly the only comparable examples of defense affecting the offensive output. Therefore, in basketball, there is a strong argument that defense and offense are equally important (Pomeroy rates Florida extremely high in both). But the argument could be made that in football, great defense is more important. Special teams throws a monkey wrench into that argument a bit, however.

[gatorbogey]

I also can do the jitterbug.

Top that ! :laugh:

stop! w/ the tomfoolery! :bored:

on another note - love the informed educated enlightening discussion about gator hoops and the way we're playing that ....
Billy D or
the Swamp Gnat D, or
Swamp Mud D or
the Orange Squeeze, or
the Defensanity, or
40 minutes of Vel-cro
hehehehe....:tongue:

[Jonas]

They key difference in football and basketball is the concept of field possession. In football a great defense, especially one that creates turnovers or is indirectly supplemented with great special teams, HELPS the offense's chances.

I mean, you could make an argument a great offense helps defense's chances too. If a team puts up a whole bunch of points, it forces opponent's offense to do things they aren't comfortable doing (like throwing if they are a running team) or take more chances resulting in more opportunities for the defense to turn the ball over.

[tebowharvin]

I mean, you could make an argument a great offense helps defense's chances too. If a team puts up a whole bunch of points, it forces opponent's offense to do things they aren't comfortable doing (like throwing if they are a running team) or take more chances resulting in more opportunities for the defense to turn the ball over.

True, but at the beginning of football games, teams will "stock with the game-plan" for awhile.

[regurgigator]

Completely, especially Murphy. He has really impressed me on that front. Physical, decisive, quick in recovery. I suspect Mizzou with Bowers' ability to pick and pop might have been a little more of a test.

I love how when they're scrambling to get back to their man and the ball is behind them, they'll start wildly waving their arms over their heads in case the pass is coming. May not look cool, but forget pride at this point :happy:

Plus, they all seemed tuned in to playing the passing angles well. As Bobby Knight said, our defense is very "alert". All the guys are doing a good job of covering/hedging to the open man if we're doubling and making it so it almost always takes the opponent 2 passes to find the open man. And, by the time the 2nd pass is completed, we've usually got someone else closing out on that man.

[tebowharvin]

Nm

[HALLGATOR]

I don't know if we are the best team in the country but an argument can made, that we may well be. We may not win a NC either but what I do know is I am enjoying the heck out of this season.

[sec1]

i hope we do not get over confident again ...

[madgator]

How likely is it that Indiana & Michigan both come out of the Big Ten as #1's?

not very


I expect Michigan to lose a few (at least 3 more) in the regular season.

[gatordavisl]

Then how did Auburn win it? By holding Oregon 30 pts below their season scoring average.

Sorry, back to basketball!

[gatormann]

They key difference in football and basketball is the concept of field possession. In football a great defense, especially one that creates turnovers or is indirectly supplemented with great special teams, HELPS the offense's chances. But in basketball the game is just trading possessions. Only wild turnovers, in basketball, that lead to fast breaks are nearly the only comparable examples of defense affecting the offensive output...

Your point about football and special teams is a good one but it is often true in basketball also. great defense in basketball often leads to easy transition points and higher, more efficient scoring. Great defense in basketball often means blocking shots, and creating turnovers which, in turn, lead to fast break points which are also high percentage opportunities which also means efficient offense. Of course, you at least partially recognize this in your post.

[ArtVandelay]

remember when Digger loved us???

[SmootyGator]

remember when Digger loved us???

It's almost like these talking heads just say whatever everyone else is thinking, have no opinion of their own and just write sh!t up that they know will grab attention. Almost. :laugh:

[PSGator66]

He also just stated that we would lose to GC so not sure if he is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[roflcopter]

Digger Phelps is a tool. Seeking his approval for validation on the quality of your particular team is like asking the Wal-Mart associate working in the hardware section which type of paint you should use for an outdoor application.

[geauxgator1]

pfft