Why we should keep fighting obamacare

[g8orbill]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/01/23/why-fight-obamacare/

From the article:

Why should anyone want to revisit legislation that was passed with highly questionable legislative tactics over the objections of a majority of Americans?

The one-word answer: implementation.

The reality of double-digit premium hikes is about to hit across America. Average people will be wondering, why was this titled the “Affordable” Care act?

The reality of double-digit premium hikes is about to hit across America. Average people will be wondering, why was this titled the “Affordable” Care act?

Ask CFOs across the nation who got a nasty wake-up call three weeks ago when HHS announced a $63 per-covered employee and family member “surcharge” to offset the cost of pre-existing condition coverage. Try that, times 100,000 employees and their families, to wreak havoc with your annual budgeting process.


....
and it is just beginning-there will be massive layoffs as companies try to maintain their bottom line

[g8trjax]

Bill, I've read other places that health care paid for by employers will become taxable income, any truth to that?

[g8orbill]

here is all I could find:

It wasn’t until the Affordable Care Act (ACA), better known as Obamacare, that policymakers created the first chink in the tax exclusion’s armor. Over the strenuous protests of its labor union allies, the Obama administration – hungry for revenue to fund subsidies for the uninsured – included a cap on the tax exclusion for so-called Cadillac plans. Starting in 2018, the government will impose a 40 percent excise tax on health plans that exceed $10,200 for single coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.


Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/10/01/End-the-Health-Care-Tax-Break-Reduce-Coverage.aspx#Cv0yAtfjbGozEZjI.99


so-if your company offers a great plan as a benefit you will be taxed after 2017- I look for that number to come down as companies will lower what they pay for-or do what I have done-drop coverage all together and then give the employee a raise to pay some of what they can buy on their own- I gave my managers a $300 a month raise and told them to use it to buy insurance-but whatever they spend it on is up to them

[Juggernautz]

Maybe we shoukld elect you President!

[fredsanford]

Double digit premium increases are nothing new.

[MichiGator2002]

Double digit premium increases are nothing new.

That is a curious defense of legislation that has been touted as the cure for any such thing as a premium increase.

[HALLGATOR]

How do they explain them going up this year? And the year before? And the year before? And the year before?

[g8orbill]

no one is denying that insurance premiums have gone up prior to obamacare-but do you really think the guvment can control costs? you do not have to look far to see it cannot-when you add in what this boondoggle plan is going to cost us the jump in ins premiums will seem like a walk in the park

[HALLGATOR]

I don't trust insurance companies any further than I can throw one nor do I have the least doubt that they will use this to their advantage. So what we have is the government supposedly on one side and the companies supposedly on the other and both are pointing fingers when the truth of the matter is they are both on the same side. We got hit by a big increase this year and the same last year so it really matters little whether Obamacare is implemented as they are going to continue to raise premiums until we get to a tipping point. I was never in favor of this plan since I never could understand it enough to make heads or tails out of it but what I do believe is the companies were salivating at the opportunity this presented them in terms of additional revenue.

[PSGator66]

I think that a lot of uninformed Obama supporters will be in shock once this is fully implemented and enforced. I am not speaking of the people on this board as they are informed but others have no clue about any policy other than it was cool to vote for Obama.

[QGator2414]

Higher insurance premiums...More taxes...

Lose Lose...

[fredsanford]

no one is denying that insurance premiums have gone up prior to obamacare-but do you really think the guvment can control costs? you do not have to look far to see it cannot-when you add in what this boondoggle plan is going to cost us the jump in ins premiums will seem like a walk in the park

The Healthcos sure never did.

As for cost savings, the full bill is not in effect yet. You'd need to do a look back in 2015 or 2016.

[The_Graygator]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/01/23/why-fight-obamacare/

From the article:

Why should anyone want to revisit legislation that was passed with highly questionable legislative tactics over the objections of a majority of Americans?

The one-word answer: implementation.

The reality of double-digit premium hikes is about to hit across America. Average people will be wondering, why was this titled the “Affordable” Care act?

The reality of double-digit premium hikes is about to hit across America. Average people will be wondering, why was this titled the “Affordable” Care act?

Ask CFOs across the nation who got a nasty wake-up call three weeks ago when HHS announced a $63 per-covered employee and family member “surcharge” to offset the cost of pre-existing condition coverage. Try that, times 100,000 employees and their families, to wreak havoc with your annual budgeting process.


....
and it is just beginning-there will be massive layoffs as companies try to maintain their bottom line



Three word answer: Power and control.

[gatorev12]

The reality is--the vast majority of liberals are tripping over themselves to move the goalposts and claim the "Affordable Care Act" wasn't about controlling healthcare costs--it was *really* about insuring America's uninsured.

[malligator]

Be fair, now. Obama wanted to give coverage to all Americans. He never said it would cost less. Oh...wait...

Obama's healthcare platform...

The health reform law is expected to cost $1.168 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office estimates. New taxes and program savings are expected to offset that spending and reduce the deficit by $84 billion.

Reduce costs by requiring insurance companies to spend 80% of revenues on health care; only 20% can be spent on administration.

Accountable Care Organizations (ACOs) -- organizations within Medicare that financially reward doctors and hospitals that partner to deliver more coordinated, higher quality care, at lower costs.

Value-based purchasing -- a Medicare program that reimburses hospitals based on the cost and quality of care they deliver, not the quantity.

Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) -- a 15-member board, appointed by the president and subject to Senate confirmation, is charged with keeping Medicare spending down by implementing cost-saving measures if spending rises.

Greater authority to identify and prosecute for costly fraud and abuse. Bringing down overall costs will result in lower premiums for consumers.

[g8orbill]

Be fair, now. Obama wanted to give coverage to all Americans. He never said it would cost less. Oh...wait...

Obama's healthcare platform...

The health reform law is expected to cost $1.168 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office estimates. New taxes and program savings are expected to offset that spending and reduce the deficit by $84 billion.

Reduce costs by requiring insurance companies to spend 80% of revenues on health care; only 20% can be spent on administration.

Accountable Care Organizations (ACOs) -- organizations within Medicare that financially reward doctors and hospitals that partner to deliver more coordinated, higher quality care, at lower costs.

Value-based purchasing -- a Medicare program that reimburses hospitals based on the cost and quality of care they deliver, not the quantity.

Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) -- a 15-member board, appointed by the president and subject to Senate confirmation, is charged with keeping Medicare spending down by implementing cost-saving measures if spending rises.

Greater authority to identify and prosecute for costly fraud and abuse. Bringing down overall costs will result in lower premiums for consumers.


the great fairy tale and the lack of intelligence of those who believed it

[HALLGATOR]

Here's one item I found about profits being made by health insurance companies:

WASHINGTON, Jan. 25, 2013 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Health insurance giant Wellpoint today announced a 38% profit increase in the 4th quarter of 2012, as compared to last year, for a total $2.7 billion in net profits for 2012. The insurance company continues to pad its profits even as the growth of health care costs remains at record-low levels and the company is forcing double-digit premium increases on consumers and small businesses across the country, said Consumer Watchdog.

"Health insurers are talking out of both sides of their mouths when they preach austerity to their customers in order to raise premiums, then turn around and announce another banner year to shareholders. As federal health reform requires health insurance companies to disclose more and more information online, it will be harder for insurers to say one thing to customers and the opposite to Wall Street. Still, consumers remain unprotected in many states where no one has the power to reject an excessive rate hike, even when company profits exceed projections," said Carmen Balber , executive director of Consumer Watchdog.

New rules from the Department of Health and Human Services have begun to open health insurance companies' books, by requiring insurers to publicly file all proposed rate increases. However, because many states lack the power to require justification and approval of rate hikes, unreasonable rate increases continue to take effect, said Consumer Watchdog.

Anthem Blue Cross, Wellpoint's California subsidiary, recently imposed an unreasonable rate hike on more than 250,000 small business customers in that state according to an analysis by the state insurance commissioner that found, among other things, that the "company-wide rates of return on equity have been and remain excessive." California regulators do not have the power to reject excessive rates, so Anthem was able to impose the increase despite the commissioner's finding it was unreasonable.

PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1yX6W)

[QGator2414]

Here's one item I found about profits being made by health insurance companies:

Look out Wellpoint increased its profit margin from 2.2% in the fourth quarter of 2011 to 3.0% in the fourth quarter of 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-33014-38371&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

And then you go look at the end of year marks and find that the the 4.4% profit margin from 2011 decreased to 4.3% for 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-38543-43953&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

But of course we can sell how evil this company is by writing an article talking about the 38% increase in revenues from 2011 to 2012 during one quarter...

[108]

Obamacare was the best the D Party could do given the fierce opposition from big money, their puppets in congress, and an astroturf movement to derail it

When America is serious, Single Payer with private add-on insurance will be the way to go

Health Care is just eating up too much money and we are in dire need of cost controls

Even a public option would have brought some competition in to lower costs, but how dare we...

I wouldn't be opposed to a free-market system for service , but given that insurance is necessary, I just can't see how that would work

[malligator]

Obamacare was the best they could do given the opposition

When America is serious, Single Payer with private add-on insurance will be the way to go

Health Care is just eating up too much money and we are in dire need of cost controls

So Obamacare sucks, but it's the GOP's fault? Or health insurance's fault? Or America's fault? Either way, it's not Obama's?

[QGator2414]

Obamacare was the best the D Party could do given the fierce opposition from big money, their puppets in congress, and an astroturf movement to derail it

When America is serious, Single Payer with private add-on insurance will be the way to go

Health Care is just eating up too much money and we are in dire need of cost controls

Even a public option would have brought some competition in to lower costs, but how dare we...

I wouldn't be opposed to a free-market system for service , but given that insurance is necessary, I just can't see how that would work

Doing nothing would have been better than obamacare.

And we are about to find out why...

[108]

So Obamacare sucks, but it's the GOP's fault? Or health insurance's fault? Or America's fault? Either way, it's not Obama's?

I didn't say it "sucked", but it could have been much better, and partly due to Obama caving to big money and its puppets in both parties

[HALLGATOR]

Look out Wellpoint increased its profit margin from 2.2% in the fourth quarter of 2011 to 3.0% in the fourth quarter of 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-33014-38371&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

And then you go look at the end of year marks and find that the the 4.4% profit margin from 2011 decreased to 4.3% for 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-38543-43953&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

But of course we can sell how evil this company is by writing an article talking about the 38% increase in revenues from 2011 to 2012 during one quarter...


I neither said the company was evil nor did I imply it, those were your words. And whether there profit was 3.3% or 4% nothing you wrote negates that their profits increased by 38% in one quarter. Now there may be a justifiable reason for it but it still stands on what it is. My point being that I don't put it past them to use Obamacare as an excuse, and/or a vehicle whereby they can increase profits.

Why is it if someone questions the profits of a company they are somehow calling a company evil?

[QGator2414]

I neither said the company was evil nor did I imply it, those were your words. And whether there profit was 3.3% or 4% nothing you wrote negates that their profits increased by 38% in one quarter. Now there may be a justifiable reason for it but it still stands on what it is. My point being that I don't put it past them to use Obamacare as an excuse, and/or a vehicle whereby they can increase profits.

Why is it if someone questions the profits of a company they are somehow calling a company evil?

I was not meaning to put words in your mouth and am sorry if it came off that way. I was trying to make the point about the article. Just because the profit increased bt 38% does not mean they are just banking it on huge margins...

[HALLGATOR]

I was not meaning to put words in your mouth and am sorry if it came off that way. I was trying to make the point about the article. Just because the profit increased bt 38% does not mean they are just banking it on huge margins...

No problem, that's one of the shortcomings of message boards. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just know the money has to be flowing somewhere and whether it is the companies, the health care field or where ever it may be there is only so much people can pay.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I'm at this point quite sadly convinced that's a losing battle. I cannot believe the SCOTUS eeked through enough to leave it largely unscathed.

[neisgator]

Look out Wellpoint increased its profit margin from 2.2% in the fourth quarter of 2011 to 3.0% in the fourth quarter of 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-33014-38371&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

And then you go look at the end of year marks and find that the the 4.4% profit margin from 2011 decreased to 4.3% for 2012.

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9028217-38543-43953&type=sect&dcn=0001193125-13-019909

But of course we can sell how evil this company is by writing an article talking about the 38% increase in revenues from 2011 to 2012 during one quarter...

Liberals don't understand profit margins.

[dudehead]

Higher insurance premiums...More taxes...

Lose Lose...

ACA was just the bomb thrown to clear the path for single payer. That is the destination.

[g8orbill]

some people are totally delusional if they really believe obamacare will cure all our health care and health insurance needs

[QGator2414]

No problem, that's one of the shortcomings of message boards. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just know the money has to be flowing somewhere and whether it is the companies, the health care field or where ever it may be there is only so much people can pay.

No doubt. The stuff ain't free... :)

[QGator2414]

ACA was just the bomb thrown to clear the path for single payer. That is the destination.

I completely agree. It is just going to take a little longer vs if they got the public option which would have expedited the move to single payer IMO...