Wages still aren't keeping up with inflation

[oragator1]

Just in the last year, the average American lost about a half a percent of spending power.

This is a site I look at from time to time as it has interesting info, down towards the bottom it has all kinds of data/tables on what the average American earns by age, race, gender, education etc., and you can search the site by occupation, location and many other parameters. Because this is a government document and not subject to copyright laws I think I can paste more than 4 paragraphs, but it's interesting stuff in the intro(At least to me).

Median weekly earnings of the nation's 103.8 million full-time wage and
salary workers were $775 in the fourth quarter of 2012 (not seasonally
adjusted), the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. This was
1.4 percent higher than a year earlier, compared with a gain of 1.9 percent
in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) over the same
period.

Highlights from the fourth-quarter data are:

--Seasonally adjusted median weekly earnings were $772 in the fourth
quarter of 2012, little changed from the previous quarter ($765).
(See table 1.)

--On a not seasonally adjusted basis, median weekly earnings were
$775 in the fourth quarter of 2012. Women who usually worked full
time had median weekly earnings of $692, or 79.1 percent of the
$875 median for men. (See table 2.)

--The female-to-male earnings ratio varied by race and ethnicity.
White women earned 79.6 percent as much as their male counterparts,
compared with black (87.4 percent), Hispanic (86.6 percent), and
Asian women (71.6 percent). (See table 2.)

--Among the major race and ethnicity groups, median weekly earnings
for black men working at full-time jobs were $680 per week, or
76.0 percent of the median for white men ($895). The difference
was less among women, as black women's median earnings ($594) were
83.4 percent of those for white women ($712). Overall, median
earnings of Hispanics who worked full time ($571) were lower than
those of blacks ($615), whites ($802), and Asians ($910).
(See table 2.)

--Usual weekly earnings of full-time workers varied by age and were
highest for persons age 35 to 64. Weekly earnings were $985 for men
age 35 to 44, little different from the medians for men age 45 to 54
($997) and men age 55 to 64 ($1,035). Among women, those age 35 to
44 had median weekly earnings of $742, about the same as the weekly
earnings for women age 45 to 54 ($747) and women age 55 to 64 ($759).
Workers age 16 to 24 had the lowest median weekly earnings, at $459.
(See table 3.)

--Among the major occupational groups, persons employed full time in
management, professional, and related occupations had the highest
median weekly earnings--$1,340 for men and $953 for women. Men and
women employed in service jobs earned the least, $550 and $420,
respectively. (See table 4.)

--By educational attainment, full-time workers age 25 and over without
a high school diploma had median weekly earnings of $478, compared
with $647 for high school graduates (no college) and $1,168 for those
holding at least a bachelor's degree. Among college graduates with
advanced degrees (professional or master's degree and above), the
highest earning 10 percent of male workers made $3,474 or more per
week, compared with $2,343 or more for their female counterparts.
(See table 5.)

Annual Averages for 2011 and 2012

In addition to the data for the fourth quarter, this release includes 2011
and 2012 annual averages of median weekly earnings for major demographic and
occupational groups, and 2012 annual average data for educational attainment
groups. (See tables 7, 8, and 9.) Annual average data on median usual weekly
earnings for men and women by detailed occupational categories will be posted
online at www.bls.gov/cps/tables.htm when they become available.


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.nr0.htm

[AndyGator]

More of the same this year.

[fredsanford]

Wages haven't been keeping up with anything since the late 70s. The average worker makes less now than then.

Don't worry though--CEO compensation is up twelvefold since then.

[gatordowneast]

No worries Komrads. It is the plan of the Regime.

[gator10010]

We just need to print more money, more stimulus, more QE and everything will be fine.

[LittleBlueLW]

Clearly Bush and the white man are to blame.

[gator10010]

Wages haven't been keeping up with anything since the late 70s. The average worker makes less now than then.


Could this possibly have something to do with the US leaving the gold standard?

[mastoidbone]

It is clear---if you want low wages pursue low education...if you want higher wages and ability to command a better salary---educate yourself.

No need to feel sorry or bad about it.
Unemployment rate for those with a degree or better is 3.9%----not bad.

And I know MANY people with no family money, broken homes, who got their degree, worked hard and did fine.

I also know many who were too lazy and smoked dope and now make $500 a week---i dont feel sorry for them---they got what they pursued.

College education is available for ALL who work hard, go to night school, weekends, whatever it takes----those who wont work that hard should expect to get what they put in.

[QGator2414]

If your employer pays for any of your health insurance you most likely picked up a good bit of purchasing power...

[GatorRade]

It is clear---if you want low wages pursue low education...if you want higher wages and ability to command a better salary---educate yourself.

No need to feel sorry or bad about it.
Unemployment rate for those with a degree or better is 3.9%----not bad.

And I know MANY people with no family money, broken homes, who got their degree, worked hard and did fine.

I also know many who were too lazy and smoked dope and now make $500 a week---i dont feel sorry for them---they got what they pursued.

College education is available for ALL who work hard, go to night school, weekends, whatever it takes----those who wont work that hard should expect to get what they put in.

I am a big proponent of education, so I am sympathetic to your view here. However, the more I look at the topic, the more skeptical I become of this notion. For sure, there are knowledge-based jobs which all out require advanced education (E.g. engineering), but it is difficult to establish education's relationship with most of the labor market.

I worry that we don't understand causality or that the effect of education is saturating. For example, let's say that the unemployment figures are 8% for those with high school education, 5% for those with bachelor's, 3% for those with masters, and 1% for those with PhDs (something similar to what figures I saw two years ago). Clearly, there is a correlation, but what is the causation? Do persons with PhD's have jobs because of the PhD? Or is it because they are persons with the capacity to obtain a PhD (a selection effect, rather than a treatment effect)?

On the idea of saturation of the market, what would happen if everybody went for one degree higher? Would our unemployment figures for each class stay the same, resulting in a big drop in our overall unemployment? OR would we see a washout due to increased labor competition? Might we see new unemployment figures that resemble this: 8% for bachelors, 5% for masters, 3% for PhDs? I believe that it would be highly unlikely to be the former. Perhaps over a long period of time we would see this new intellectual capital put to use, but almost surely not over the next few years.

All of this is to question one tenet of your post: Can a particular individual do sufficiently better by gaining more education? As a college educator, I'd like to think so, but I sure don't see any definitive evidence.

[gatorman_07732]

There certainly are many people without degrees that do much better in income earning power than many people with degrees. A degree alone is not worth much without the soft skills that enhances your career. However I should note that there are people with PhD's that have relatively no soft skills and are strictly used for their brilliance that do very will, but they are far from a large percentage. I've known people with history degrees that have went on to do well because they were able to sell themselves and use their creativity to enhance their careers.

[Gatorrick22]

Just in the last year, the average American lost about a half a percent of spending power.

This is a site I look at from time to time as it has interesting info, down towards the bottom it has all kinds of data/tables on what the average American earns by age, race, gender, education etc., and you can search the site by occupation, location and many other parameters. Because this is a government document and not subject to copyright laws I think I can paste more than 4 paragraphs, but it's interesting stuff in the intro(At least to me).


And whom do you blame for this? The Fed is printing money which in turn de-values our currency. Translation: Everything gets way more expensive....... Yet Obama continues to spend more of other people's money.

This is Great Recession chit.

[Gatoragman]

This just can't possibly be. Aren't we in headed into like the 4th summer of recovery?

[GatorRade]

There certainly are many people without degrees that do much better in income earning power than many people with degrees. A degree alone is not worth much without the soft skills that enhances your career. However I should note that there are people with PhD's that have relatively no soft skills and are strictly used for their brilliance that do very will, but they are far from a large percentage. I've known people with history degrees that have went on to do well because they were able to sell themselves and use their creativity to enhance their careers.

Exactly. It's difficult to tease apart whether one's degree is the cause of their future success or a symptom of their future success.

[108]

https://motherjones.com/files/images/change-since-1979-300.gif

[mastoidbone]

What changed since 1979????
Computers and information economy and trade and china---
Those skills are more valued then jobs in past like factory work--if all your value added skills can be repeated in china expect to be on that bottom curve---if you work hard and educate yourself chances are you are not on that bottom line---life is hard. Work hard. Study hard.

[baygator1]

It is clear---if you want low wages pursue low education...if you want higher wages and ability to command a better salary---educate yourself.

No need to feel sorry or bad about it.
Unemployment rate for those with a degree or better is 3.9%----not bad.

And I know MANY people with no family money, broken homes, who got their degree, worked hard and did fine.

I also know many who were too lazy and smoked dope and now make $500 a week---i dont feel sorry for them---they got what they pursued.

College education is available for ALL who work hard, go to night school, weekends, whatever it takes----those who wont work that hard should expect to get what they put in.

You're leaving out an extremely valuable part of the equation. Kids are herded into college at nearly every turn, and it's absolutely not the right path for many of them. Learning a trade is another path that I'd argue is equally important relative to its value; not only in cost to the individual, but it's return down the road as well.

In the end, the result is largely dependent on what you put into it. But increasingly today 'college' is more valuable for lenders and the institutions themselves than to the student.

[Gatoragman]

108, your graph obviously proves that the evil pubs are at fault and especially Bush, since we know they have been in total charge since 1979!!!!

[fredsanford]

What changed since 1979????
Computers and information economy and trade and china---
Those skills are more valued then jobs in past like factory work--if all your value added skills can be repeated in china expect to be on that bottom curve---if you work hard and educate yourself chances are you are not on that bottom line---life is hard. Work hard. Study hard.

Wrong.

Since the greed revolution of the 80s, American middle class jobs have been offshored to increase CEO bonuses.

This is why the GOP can't win national elections any more--that midwestern mill worker who goes to church every Sunday can't find a job. Therefore, he will no longer vote against his economic self interest like he did in the 80s.

[gatorman_07732]

Wrong.

Since the greed revolution of the 80s, American middle class jobs have been offshored to increase CEO bonuses.

This is why the GOP can't win national elections any more--that midwestern mill worker who goes to church every Sunday can't find a job. Therefore, he will no longer vote against his economic self interest like he did in the 80s.

Here you heard it that there will never be another republican president.

[cocodrilo]

I keep hearing about all this money being printed, yet inflation remains low. Isn't this contrary to economic theory? I've been waiting for years now for my savings to be reduced to pennies in value. When is it going to happen?

[malligator]

I keep hearing about all this money being printed, yet inflation remains low. Isn't this contrary to economic theory? I've been waiting for years now for my savings to be reduced to pennies in value. When is it going to happen?

As soon as we stop bolstering the false economy with federal credit. The Dow (a metric) is doing well yet earnings across the board (the true value of the market) are lackluster at best. In other words, there's a whole lot of money and credit floating around making people more willing to buy something for more than it's actually worth. When Obama decides to put the country's AmEx away the market is going to crash. Why do you think he's fighting so damn hard to raise the debt ceiling? If the economy was truly doing well would he have to? No. He just needs to keep putting it on the plastic to keep up appearances.

[QGator2414]

I am a big proponent of education, so I am sympathetic to your view here. However, the more I look at the topic, the more skeptical I become of this notion. For sure, there are knowledge-based jobs which all out require advanced education (E.g. engineering), but it is difficult to establish education's relationship with most of the labor market.

I worry that we don't understand causality or that the effect of education is saturating. For example, let's say that the unemployment figures are 8% for those with high school education, 5% for those with bachelor's, 3% for those with masters, and 1% for those with PhDs (something similar to what figures I saw two years ago). Clearly, there is a correlation, but what is the causation? Do persons with PhD's have jobs because of the PhD? Or is it because they are persons with the capacity to obtain a PhD (a selection effect, rather than a treatment effect)?

On the idea of saturation of the market, what would happen if everybody went for one degree higher? Would our unemployment figures for each class stay the same, resulting in a big drop in our overall unemployment? OR would we see a washout due to increased labor competition? Might we see new unemployment figures that resemble this: 8% for bachelors, 5% for masters, 3% for PhDs? I believe that it would be highly unlikely to be the former. Perhaps over a long period of time we would see this new intellectual capital put to use, but almost surely not over the next few years.

All of this is to question one tenet of your post: Can a particular individual do sufficiently better by gaining more education? As a college educator, I'd like to think so, but I sure don't see any definitive evidence.

Love this article/blog and line...

http://libertarianchristians.com/2013/01/21/how-will-education-be-handled/

"Once we keep in mind that education is not just “schooling,” we can begin to imagine ways that educating the poorest in a free society is not just a prediction but is feasible."

[108]

What changed since 1979????
Computers and information economy and trade and china---
Those skills are more valued then jobs in past like factory work--if all your value added skills can be repeated in china expect to be on that bottom curve---if you work hard and educate yourself chances are you are not on that bottom line---life is hard. Work hard. Study hard.

c'mon that's BS and you know it, upwards mobility is almost just a myth at this point

as seen by the productivity line, this isn't about not working hard

[108]

108, your graph obviously proves that the evil pubs are at fault and especially Bush, since we know they have been in total charge since 1979!!!!

its odd that a graph like that causes conservatives to deflect

its like, "hey we know our elected leaders policies have primarily been aimed at the 1%, but we are so entrenched in our party's ideology that we will defend it even if it hurts the majority of us"

[gatorman_07732]

c'mon that's BS and you know it, upwards mobility is almost just a myth at this point

as seen by the productivity line, this isn't about not working hard

Now how could it be humanly possible for people to no longer gain upward mobility? Just think about that for moment, it makes absolutely no sense because it's something that's not static. In fact there is going to be plenty of it with baby boomers retiring.

[fredsanford]

Now how could it be humanly possible for people to no longer gain upward mobility? Just think about that for moment, it makes absolutely no sense because it's something that's not static. In fact there is going to be plenty of it with baby boomers retiring.

The US now ranks something like 8th in the world for countries where children end up exceeding their parents' socioeconomic status. Why?

Because the last 30 years the bars on the economic ladder have been moved further and further apart by economic disparity.

[gatorman_07732]

The US now ranks something like 8th in the world for countries where children end up exceeding their parents' socioeconomic status. Why?

Because the last 30 years the bars on the economic ladder have been moved further and further apart by economic disparity.

Got a link for that, and how was the data obtained?

[Gatoragman]

Link, we don't need no stinking links!!!!!!!
Blindly believe whatever he says!!!!!

[GatorRade]

Love this article/blog and line...

http://libertarianchristians.com/2013/01/21/how-will-education-be-handled/

"Once we keep in mind that education is not just “schooling,” we can begin to imagine ways that educating the poorest in a free society is not just a prediction but is feasible."

I'm definitely open to alternative methods and even goals for our educational system.

[gatorman_07732]

I'm definitely open to alternative methods and even goals for our educational system.

You're on to something, but maybe not on the college level. There are some trades where people can make some very good money that are very specialized.

[JerseyGator01]

If a married couple in DC were both employed as lobbyists, they more than likely would be included in the 1%.

CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

[mastoidbone]

which middle class jobs have been outsourced to save CEOs?
teachers?
engineers?
police?
plumber?
electrician?
accountant?
govt workers? (many of whom make WAY more then middle class)?


Lets see what HAS been outsourced?
Clothing?yep
operator?yep
assembly line?yep
customer support?

JOBS that can be done as well or better for less SHOULD be sent overseas----that is how you maximize WEALTH and returns---you know, do your job.

Those people who dont have skills gained from education have a REAL good incentive to get educated now dont they?

And what happens then???higher skilled labor force means MORE national wealth.......go figure.

What has happened to many americans is PUBLIC education has failed them--because public education is there to serve union workers---not kids...and the results reflect that.

[HALLGATOR]

which middle class jobs have been outsourced to save CEOs?
teachers?
engineers?
police?
plumber?
electrician?
accountant?
govt workers? (many of whom make WAY more then middle class)?


Lets see what HAS been outsourced?
Clothing?yep
operator?yep
assembly line?yep
customer support?

JOBS that can be done as well or better for less SHOULD be sent overseas----that is how you maximize WEALTH and returns---you know, do your job.

Those people who dont have skills gained from education have a REAL good incentive to get educated now dont they?

And what happens then???higher skilled labor force means MORE national wealth.......go figure.

What has happened to many americans is PUBLIC education has failed them--because public education is there to serve union workers---not kids...and the results reflect that.

This all sounds good but isn't it predicated on the idea there will be jobs available for those people who gain education? From there the next question would be does education in itself create any kind of wealth since a degree of wealth is needed to create more jobs.

One of the very issues we face today is a loss of jobs which equals a loss of revenue for a certain segment of society who have long been a backbone of this country. We didn't just outsource jobs to make the higher ups more money, we outsourced jobs so Americans could have more "things." Trouble is there is a consequence for the path we chose.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

I worry that we don't understand causality or that the effect of education is saturating. For example, let's say that the unemployment figures are 8% for those with high school education, 5% for those with bachelor's, 3% for those with masters, and 1% for those with PhDs (something similar to what figures I saw two years ago). Clearly, there is a correlation, but what is the causation? Do persons with PhD's have jobs because of the PhD? Or is it because they are persons with the capacity to obtain a PhD (a selection effect, rather than a treatment effect)?

Oh please. Causation is extremely clear. There are professions that have high remuneration and there are professions that don't. Well paid professions often require a good deal of education. But not always. And there are poorly paid professions, for argument's sake those that require a PHD in pottery, that might require a good deal of education. But most low paying jobs are low paying because they are not specialized.

[brainstorm]

Re-education or training in a new area is an issue in my mind. If you are a laborer in a plant that makes widgets and widgets can be made cheaper in another country and if the entire US industry is shutting down to move production to this country - what do you do now? Can you quickly train up in another field that needs workers? Or are you stuck with your now unneeded skill set?

[Matthanuf06]

This all sounds good but isn't it predicated on the idea there will be jobs available for those people who gain education? From there the next question would be does education in itself create any kind of wealth since a degree of wealth is needed to create more jobs.

One of the very issues we face today is a loss of jobs which equals a loss of revenue for a certain segment of society who have long been a backbone of this country. We didn't just outsource jobs to make the higher ups more money, we outsourced jobs so Americans could have more "things." Trouble is there is a consequence for the path we chose.

What is the consequence? I mean I guess I get what you are saying. There is a consequence for everything. Getting in shape requires hours at the gym. An education hours of your nose in the books.

Isn't this basic comparative advantage?

[HALLGATOR]

What is the consequence? I mean I guess I get what you are saying. There is a consequence for everything. Getting in shape requires hours at the gym. An education hours of your nose in the books.

Isn't this basic comparative advantage?

The consequence of jobs moved overseas to take advantage of cheap wages is loss of jobs here. As we want more and more there are only two ways to meet those "wants." The first is higher wages to afford more things and the second is to make what we want less expensive thus allowing the purchasing of more items on basically the same income. Of course you could add the use of credit, to meet the wants requirement, into the equation but credit is really nothing more than spending money you have yet to earn in most cases. Thus we wind up with a population with a lot of "wants" seeking the means to satisfy the same. If we look at employment as a means then we also have to look at the availability of employment.

The question I have, and others have touched on, centers around the availability of jobs. Have we created as many jobs percentage wise as we have lost? By "percentage wise" I mean to take into account population growth rather than a static number or a one-to-one ratio. Often we say "get an education," but does an education necessarily guarantee there are enough jobs to go around once the education is attained? An example would be if we took 10,000 people without a college education, educated them, then added their job needs to the work force. Does the education itself really do anything to create jobs or does it create a need for higher paying jobs due to the cost of the education and the mind-set that accompanies an education? That mind-set being one where the person who has gone through the education process believes they should now be able to earn more money than a person without a college education (on average).

[DaveFla]

Let me get this straight... We go out and print a whole bunch of money. Then, those in charge can't figure out why inflation is running away and all they can come up with is to complain that wages aren't keeping up?

Whose running this show? The three stooges?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6s6CdLQRCP0/SpN4IwllSFI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/gFxeEihS1gg/s400/Stooges_Title.gif

[Matthanuf06]

The consequence of jobs moved overseas to take advantage of cheap wages is loss of jobs here. As we want more and more there are only two ways to meet those "wants." The first is higher wages to afford more things and the second is to make what we want less expensive thus allowing the purchasing of more items on basically the same income. Of course you could add the use of credit, to meet the wants requirement, into the equation but credit is really nothing more than spending money you have yet to earn in most cases. Thus we wind up with a population with a lot of "wants" seeking the means to satisfy the same. If we look at employment as a means then we also have to look at the availability of employment.

The question I have, and others have touched on, centers around the availability of jobs. Have we created as many jobs percentage wise as we have lost? By "percentage wise" I mean to take into account population growth rather than a static number or a one-to-one ratio. Often we say "get an education," but does an education necessarily guarantee there are enough jobs to go around once the education is attained? An example would be if we took 10,000 people without a college education, educated them, then added their job needs to the work force. Does the education itself really do anything to create jobs or does it create a need for higher paying jobs due to the cost of the education and the mind-set that accompanies an education? That mind-set being one where the person who has gone through the education process believes they should now be able to earn more money than a person without a college education (on average).

And the advantage is a stronger economy and more wealth. The jobs you mentioned may be lost, but more open up. I hate to say it, but tough shit if you are in an obsolete area of the economy. Adapt or move. Protecting jobs where you do not have the comparative advantage hurts the nation dramatically. In fact you probably lose more jobs that way (bc they aren't created), but that isn't a nice sob story on CNN.

But in a round about way you hit the nail on the head. Americans want an upper middle class lifestyle regardless of their productivity. We need a realization that if you aren't productive and are poor then you need to live a poor lifestyle

[HALLGATOR]

And the advantage is a stronger economy and more wealth. The jobs you mentioned may be lost, but more open up. I hate to say it, but tough shit if you are in an obsolete area of the economy. Adapt or move. Protecting jobs where you do not have the comparative advantage hurts the nation dramatically. In fact you probably lose more jobs that way (bc they aren't created), but that isn't a nice sob story on CNN.

But in a round about way you hit the nail on the head. Americans want an upper middle class lifestyle regardless of their productivity. We need a realization that if you aren't productive and are poor then you need to live a poor lifestyle

I don't really think protecting jobs is the way to go nor have I ever been a proponent of this. One of the main reasons is I just don't think it works in the long run. However the loss of jobs can have a dire affect on the whole nation if it is in a large enough quantity and there are not jobs enough to take their place. It really matters little how much education you have if there is no market for your skills or the market is over saturated.

One of the most important driving forces behind a vibrant economy, in my opinion, is a strong work force. People with money to spend create demand for products. When they earn this money they are not a burden on society but rather a benefit. Once again I am not convinced an education in and of itself is any guarantee of a job. I am also far from convinced all people are cut out for higher education.

[gatorman_07732]

There needs to be better education steering people in the right direction to industries that are starving for good people and they are out there.

[QGator2414]

I don't really think protecting jobs is the way to go nor have I ever been a proponent of this. One of the main reasons is I just don't think it works in the long run. However the loss of jobs can have a dire affect on the whole nation if it is in a large enough quantity and there are not jobs enough to take their place. It really matters little how much education you have if there is no market for your skills or the market is over saturated.

One of the most important driving forces behind a vibrant economy, in my opinion, is a strong work force. People with money to spend create demand for products. When they earn this money they are not a burden on society but rather a benefit. Once again I am not convinced an education in and of itself is any guarantee of a job. I am also far from convinced all people are cut out for higher education.

Good post.

I agree with much of this. What are your thoughts on the "work force"?

There is a whole lot of supply out there but I was extremely disappointed in the options wrt our one hire since we started our business (we started with 6 full time and one part time employee and had to replace one person since2008). We ended up getting a great employee who was not even applying for the job as they were still going to school for the credentials (we ended up paying for the necessary certificates and had flexibility with another employee to make it work until they were able to do everything) but shadowing in our office.

I know people do not like the word "entitlement" but that is the word that comes to mind with a good portion of the work force in that I think people feel entitled to certain positions whether it is because of education achieved or just because we have created that sense in this country IMO.

[gatorpa]

108, your graph obviously proves that the evil pubs are at fault and especially Bush, since we know they have been in total charge since 1979!!!!

Except per 108's graph the biggest jump for the 1% was during the Clintion years!

[gatorpa]

Let me get this straight... We go out and print a whole bunch of money. Then, those in charge can't figure out why inflation is running away and all they can come up with is to complain that wages aren't keeping up?

Whose running this show? The three stooges?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6s6CdLQRCP0/SpN4IwllSFI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/gFxeEihS1gg/s400/Stooges_Title.gif

How long you been waiting to use that one!:happy:

[JerseyGator01]

Two of the top 3 cities with the greatest income disparity are Boston and DC, bastions of liberalism. Enough said.

[gatorpa]

https://motherjones.com/files/images/change-since-1979-300.gif

We are in 2013 BTW why does the chart stop in 2009? Curious as to what has happened under the current admin.( if the up trend continued)

[oragator1]

Two of the top 3 cities with the greatest income disparity are Boston and DC, bastions of liberalism. Enough said.

You usually have pretty good backup for what you post, but I took a quick look online and saw this:

http://www.usnews.com/news/best-cities/slideshows/the-13-cities-with-the-greatest-economic-inequality/14

Neither of those cities is even in the top 15, where did you get your info?

[HALLGATOR]

Good post.

I agree with much of this. What are your thoughts on the "work force"?

There is a whole lot of supply out there but I was extremely disappointed in the options wrt our one hire since we started our business (we started with 6 full time and one part time employee and had to replace one person since2008). We ended up getting a great employee who was not even applying for the job as they were still going to school for the credentials (we ended up paying for the necessary certificates and had flexibility with another employee to make it work until they were able to do everything) but shadowing in our office.

I know people do not like the word "entitlement" but that is the word that comes to mind with a good portion of the work force in that I think people feel entitled to certain positions whether it is because of education achieved or just because we have created that sense in this country IMO.


I'm not exactly sure what your question is. I'm not ignoring it.

[g8orbill]

108 is the king of class envy/warfare on too hot

what he fails to understand is there are a group of people out there who are willing to do what ever is necessary to get and maintain a certain lifestyle- my wife and I worked 2 jobs for years to save enough to start our own business- we lived a meager lifestyle so we could get to where we wanted to be- we used our education and our work ethic to our advantage

[QGator2414]

I'm not exactly sure what your question is. I'm not ignoring it.

I was looking for your thoughts on the "work force". I agree we need a strong Work force but it feels like the work force is volume based rather than quality based at this time.

I was curious is you agreed?

Unfortunately I think we have done a huge disservice to many in not preparing them to use their skills in a productive way. The you need to go to college mentality.

[HALLGATOR]

I was looking for your thoughts on the "work force". I agree we need a strong Work force but it feels like the work force is volume based rather than quality based at this time.

I was curious is you agreed?

Unfortunately I think we have done a huge disservice to many in not preparing them to use their skills in a productive way. The you need to go to college mentality.

Yes, I would agree with it and it hits at the heart of one of our bigger problems. gatorman also bring this up and it is an issue that could grow larger if we don't figure our a way to address it. Simply have an available pool of workers doesn't mean these workers fit the needs of the job market.

[exiledgator]

And the advantage is a stronger economy and more wealth. The jobs you mentioned may be lost, but more open up. I hate to say it, but tough shit if you are in an obsolete area of the economy. Adapt or move. Protecting jobs where you do not have the comparative advantage hurts the nation dramatically. In fact you probably lose more jobs that way (bc they aren't created), but that isn't a nice sob story on CNN.

But in a round about way you hit the nail on the head. Americans want an upper middle class lifestyle regardless of their productivity. We need a realization that if you aren't productive and are poor then you need to live a poor lifestyle

I don't totally disagree with this post: there will certainly be casualties in a shifting job market, however I thought I'd point out that the 'move' part of 'adapt or move' has been quite difficult in recent times. In areas hit hardest w/ job loss even responsible homeowners find it hard to move as they watch their home equity disappear.

This is just one of the side/multiplying effects of having a crash driven by real estate plummeting: we do not have a mobile workforce.

[mastoidbone]

of course--the other HUGE driver of these lower wages was MASSIVE influx of moslty unskilled labor from S of the border. This ensured little labor pressure on employers and decreased wages throughout unskilled labor market.

The only solution is education.
That does NOT have to be a 4 year school---education can be industrial welding, underwater construction, electrician, wind turbine repair, high end machining, etc etc--then when entire labor force is more educated, can manufacture and produce more goods that have more added value----while low value production is outsourced.

If you cant learn the skills of 21st century labor force or are to lazy, or smoke too much dope, or had 7 kids and have no time now-----dont say i didnt tell you WHY you are poor.

The idea that society should subsidize activity that does not benefit great society is a path to poverty for all. SO do invest in re-training---but limit benefits for having kids and smoking dope at home.