Does a "small town" American have it right?

[gatordowneast]

Written as a letter to the editor in the Tawas City, Michigan newspaper in 2010. (small town on Lake Huron...pop 2000)

Is he right or is America just "evolving" as the Progressives would say?

What has America become?


Editor,


Has America become the land of special interest and home of the double standard?

Lets see: if we lie to the Congress, it's a felony and if the Congress lies to us its just politics; if we dislike a black person, we're racist and if a black person dislikes whites, its their 1st Amendment right; the government spends millions to rehabilitate criminals and they do almost nothing for the victims; in public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process; you can kill an unborn child, but it is wrong to execute a mass murderer; we don't burn books in America, we now rewrite them; we got rid of communist and socialist threats by renaming them progressive; we are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea; if you protest against President Obama's policies you're a terrorist, but if you burned an American flag or George Bush in effigy it was your 1st Amendment right.


You can have pornography on TV or the internet, but you better not put a nativity scene in a public park during Christmas; we have eliminated all criminals in America, they are now called sick people; we can use a human fetus for medical research, but it is wrong to use an animal.


We take money from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don't want to work; we all support the Constitution, but only when it supports our political ideology; we still have freedom of speech, but only if we are being politically correct; parenting has been replaced with Ritalin and video games; the land of opportunity is now the land of hand outs; the similarity between Hurricane Katrina and the gulf oil spill is that neither president did anything to help.


And how do we handle a major crisis today? The government appoints a committee to determine who's at fault, then threatens them, passes a law, raises our taxes; tells us the problem is solved so they can get back to their reelection campaign.

What has happened to the land of the free and home of the brave?


- Ken Huber

Tawas City

[wgbgator]

Yeah, he doesnt have much right at all.

[MichiGator2002]

Yeah, he doesnt have much right at all.

I would love a bit more specificity as to on which points where you figure he went wrong.

[gatordowneast]

Yeah, he doesnt have much right at all.

Hope you are being sarcastic. If not, please enlighten us. How are the rest of us screwed up in our thinking?

[rivergator]

I would love a bit more specificity as to on which points where you figure he went wrong.

Let's see, if you dislike a black person, you're not a racist. We're not prevented from executing mass murderers. Today's progressive is not a communist. If you protest Obama's policies, you're not declared to be a terrorist ... Seriously where do people get that stuff?
I really wonder how stupid you have to be to believe that anyone who protests Obama is now labeled a terrorist.

[wgbgator]

Hope you are being sarcastic. If not, please enlighten us. How are the rest of us screwed up in our thinking?

I mean, the thing is so full of strawmen it could catch fire at any moment. I really hope its you who are being sarcastic or unserious.

[gatordowneast]

I mean, the thing is so full of strawmen it could catch fire at any moment. I really hope its you who are being sarcastic or unserious.

Educate us.

[exiledgator]

Smells like chain mail.

[wgbgator]

Educate us.

How about you explain what's true there, because pretty much everything is either just false, a strawman or weird equivalency (like how watching porn on TV in private is somehow comparable to a nativty scene in public?).

[wgbgator]

I will agree that is a truthful representation of the conservative id.

[bluelang]

http://www.medieval-chain-mail-armor.com/images/Black_Chain_Mail_1.JPG

[OaktownGator]

Occasionally I've seen some kernels of corn in my chit... doesn't mean the whole load belonged a dinner plate.

[gatordowneast]

How about you explain what's true there, because pretty much everything is either just false, a strawman or weird equivalency (like how watching porn on TV in private is somehow comparable to a nativty scene in public?).

Who smacked the guy's opinion down? I believe that would be you. So what is wrong with what the man states? You have no issue with pornography in private or at movies or on TV and yet you have no issue with the ban of nativity scenes at churches? Huh???

[mocgator]

Written as a letter to the editor in the Tawas City, Michigan newspaper in 2010. (small town on Lake Huron...pop 2000)

Is he right or is America just "evolving" as the Progressives would say?

What has America become?


Editor,


Has America become the land of special interest and home of the double standard?

Lets see: if we lie to the Congress, it's a felony and if the Congress lies to us its just politics; if we dislike a black person, we're racist and if a black person dislikes whites, its their 1st Amendment right; the government spends millions to rehabilitate criminals and they do almost nothing for the victims; in public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process; you can kill an unborn child, but it is wrong to execute a mass murderer; we don't burn books in America, we now rewrite them; we got rid of communist and socialist threats by renaming them progressive; we are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea; if you protest against President Obama's policies you're a terrorist, but if you burned an American flag or George Bush in effigy it was your 1st Amendment right.


You can have pornography on TV or the internet, but you better not put a nativity scene in a public park during Christmas; we have eliminated all criminals in America, they are now called sick people; we can use a human fetus for medical research, but it is wrong to use an animal.


We take money from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don't want to work; we all support the Constitution, but only when it supports our political ideology; we still have freedom of speech, but only if we are being politically correct; parenting has been replaced with Ritalin and video games; the land of opportunity is now the land of hand outs; the similarity between Hurricane Katrina and the gulf oil spill is that neither president did anything to help.


And how do we handle a major crisis today? The government appoints a committee to determine who's at fault, then threatens them, passes a law, raises our taxes; tells us the problem is solved so they can get back to their reelection campaign.

What has happened to the land of the free and home of the brave?


- Ken Huber

Tawas City

OFFICIAL NOTICE: This poster has thoughts and ideas that are not consistent with or in keeping with the policies and ideas expressed by Barack Obama and/or the Democrat party.

Accordingly, you are hereby notified that the thoughts, ideas and facts presented by this poster constitute hate speech and you are warned that, as such, they may cause discomfort or offense to Democrats, liberals, those educated by the government, non-achievers, those suffering from wealth-envy and followers of The Chosen One.

Govern yourself accordingly.

[rivergator]

Who smacked the guy's opinion down? I believe that would be you. So what is wrong with what the man states? You have no issue with pornography in private or at movies or on TV and yet you have no issue with the ban of nativity scenes at churches? Huh???

who is banning nativity scenes at churches? I ask again, where do you guys get this stuff?

[wgbgator]

Who smacked the guy's opinion down? I believe that would be you. So what is wrong with what the man states? You have no issue with pornography in private or at movies or on TV and yet you have no issue with the ban of nativity scenes at churches? Huh???

Nativity scenes are banned at churches? Dude, you're not even making sense.

[gatordowneast]

How about you explain what's true there, because pretty much everything is either just false, a strawman or weird equivalency (like how watching porn on TV in private is somehow comparable to a nativty scene in public?).

"In public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process." Huh? Is this not f'd up? Glad we sent our kids to private schools if this is the case.

[llm85]

Actually, this one ("you can kill an unborn child, but it is wrong to execute a mass murderer") should read: "you can kill an unborn child, but it is illegal to kill an unborn sea turtle."

[wgbgator]

"In public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process." Huh? Is this not f'd up? Glad we sent our kids to private schools if this is the case.

So, you even you are saying if. Seems even you are hedging on the veracity of his claims.

[JerseyGator01]

The Obama administration has labelled pro-lifers as terrorists on multiple occasions.

[rivergator]

The Obama administration has labelled pro-lifers as terrorists on multiple occasions.

examples?

[rivergator]

So, let's see. We've got a letter writer who thinks anyone who protests Obama is declared a terrorist. You've got a conservative poster who claims that nativity scenes have been banned from churches. And you've got a claim that the Obama has labeled pro-lifers as terrorists "on multiple occasions" but refuses to point out any of those multiple occasions.
Gee I wonder why.
Otherwise, I'd say this thread is fairly typical.

[llm85]

And you've got a claim that the Obama has labeled pro-lifers as terrorists "on multiple occasions" but refuses to point out any of those multiple occasions.

Actually, the claim was the Obama administration, not Obama. Here you go: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/constitutional-experts-pro-life-terrorists-could-be-permanently-detained-wi

[gator1986]

Absolutely brilliant! Love it!

[gator1986]

Let's see, if you dislike a black person, you're not a racist. We're not prevented from executing mass murderers. Today's progressive is not a communist. If you protest Obama's policies, you're not declared to be a terrorist ... Seriously where do people get that stuff?
I really wonder how stupid you have to be to believe that anyone who protests Obama is now labeled a terrorist.

Yea if you dislike a black person especially where I'm from your a racist... Progressives are communist and socialist, and anytime you speak against the government you are a terrorist.. Read a book or watch TV... They threatened prison to all MLB players who lied about steroids ( which is an absolute joke, I figure our stupid government could find better ways to spend their money ), but the minute they lie its all politics, or covered up. Anyone who thinks that our government is not flawed is really close minded... Just my opinion...

[wargunfan]

I think the charge that our government values the integrity of the South Korean border more than the US southern border is telling. The known infiltration of North Koreans into South Korea would be met with a response sufficient to put an end to it. Mexicans infiltrating the Arizona border does not generate a similar response. In fact this administration has worked to neuter state efforts to secure their own border. Could it be that the Dream Act will not secure sufficient future Democrat voters?

[gator1986]

I think the charge that our government values the integrity of the South Korean border more than the US southern border is telling. The known infiltration of North Koreans into South Korea would be met with a response sufficient to put an end to it. Mexicans infiltrating the Arizona border does not generate a similar response. In fact this administration has worked to neuter state efforts to secure their own border. Could it be that the Dream Act will not secure sufficient future Democrat voters?

Isn't it for every 1 American soldier over on the Korean border, there is I believe 100 North Korean soldiers...

[rivergator]

Actually, the claim was the Obama administration, not Obama. Here you go: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/constitutional-experts-pro-life-terrorists-could-be-permanently-detained-wi

Um, I'm having trouble finding that in that piece. Can you point out the passage? thanks

[CalSFGator]

Oh boy, I love crazy chain emails like this, so much nonsensical schlock tossed about into a mess of rhetorical non-sequitors. It's a veritable Finnegans Wake for schizophrenic rightwingers.

Let's look at some of them:

Lets see: if we lie to the Congress, it's a felony and if the Congress lies to us its just politics.

How is this relevant to today's politics, or indicative of a trend? They had contempt of congress in the 1820s or thereabouts, and we have had lying politicians for even longer. How is this on liberal america and/or Obama?

If we dislike a black person, we're racist and if a black person dislikes whites, its their 1st Amendment right.

They can't even make a cogent point about double standards (which there is a thoughtful response to that few in love with this chain email will grasp) without making almost no sense. It's actually every person's first amendment right to dislike someone. These are not even at odds with one another.

The government spends millions to rehabilitate criminals and they do almost nothing for the victims.


They millions they spend prosecuting trials and jailing people and/or executing them doesn't count I suppose? What should they do, hand them cash? Another daddy gov't handout from entitlement righties I guess.

In public schools you can teach that homosexuality is OK, but you better not use the word God in the process.

Homosexuals make much more sense than God, and at least their real, so I don't see the problem here. Plus, of course you can say God if you want. You can't make kids pray, which is more akin (in homosexuality) to making the boys tickle each others balls. When they do that, call me.

We don't burn books in America, we now rewrite them.


It gets even worse when they try to be clever. Conservatives really only read the bible, Ann Coulter and Tom Clancy novels, so I rarely listen to them about anything textbook related.

We got rid of communist and socialist threats by renaming them progressive.

Conservatives continue to cower in hallways at the threat of economic ideas, and the scary Danish military seeking to put missiles just off the coast of their beloved Alabama.

We are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea.

From all the South Koreans risking life and limb to get into NK? Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up in a skit comedy.

If you protest against President Obama's policies you're a terrorist, but if you burned an American flag or George Bush in effigy it was your 1st Amendment right.

Says who? I protest Obama's policies all the time. No one seems to mind.

We can use a human fetus for medical research, but it is wrong to use an animal.

You can use aborted animal fetuses too if you like.

We take money from those who work hard for it and give it to those who don't want to work.

Mostly conservatives, who work hard at pathetic chain emails all day and bitching about whatever money they think is being redistributed from them.

[AzCatFan]

I think the charge that our government values the integrity of the South Korean border more than the US southern border is telling. The known infiltration of North Koreans into South Korea would be met with a response sufficient to put an end to it. Mexicans infiltrating the Arizona border does not generate a similar response. In fact this administration has worked to neuter state efforts to secure their own border. Could it be that the Dream Act will not secure sufficient future Democrat voters?

N. Korea and S. Korea are political enemies. Mexico and the USA are not. The Korean border is a military zone. The US/Mexican border is not. The Korean economic situation is vastly different than that of the US and Mexico, where Mexico has a supply of cheap labor and low demand, and the US the opposite.

So why should anyone, anywhere ever equate the two borders? Only in overly, simplistic minds could our Korean border policy compare with our own border policy. Personally, I'd like our border not be militarized, and for us to institute a broader guest worker program. It has zero to do with more Democratic voters and simply about labor supply meeting demand.

[Emmitto]

So that I can work out my protest schedule, where are the public porn exhibitions that have replaced nativity scenes? I will not leave until they do.

[wargunfan]

N. Korea and S. Korea are political enemies. Mexico and the USA are not. The Korean border is a military zone. The US/Mexican border is not. The Korean economic situation is vastly different than that of the US and Mexico, where Mexico has a supply of cheap labor and low demand, and the US the opposite.

So why should anyone, anywhere ever equate the two borders? Only in overly, simplistic minds could our Korean border policy compare with our own border policy. Personally, I'd like our border not be militarized, and for us to institute a broader guest worker program. It has zero to do with more Democratic voters and simply about labor supply meeting demand.

It must be uncomfortable to be in such a tiny minority in your own state.

http://www.pewstates.org/projects/stateline/headlines/arizona-lashes-out-at-illegal-immigration-85899390295

[Spurffelbow833]

Maybe we're all already in hell. Hell doesn't have to be as bad as it can possibly be. It could just keep getting worse, for all eternity.

Just a thought to cheer everyone up.

[northgagator]

Maybe we're all already in hell. Hell doesn't have to be as bad as it can possibly be. It could just keep getting worse, for all eternity.

Just a thought to cheer everyone up.

And we are experiencing the slow drip process. Drip, by drip, by drip....

[northgagator]

Here is a request.

Can the posters in the Lib side point out one item that is correct in the OP?

Also, can the posters in the Right side point out one item that is incorrect in the OP?

[llm85]

Um, I'm having trouble finding that in that piece. Can you point out the passage? thanks

Sure:

"Under this administration, the Department of Homeland Security has listed pro-life organizations as potential domestic terrorists and held joint training sessions with the FBI to monitor pro-life websites.

An April 2009 DHS report entitled “Rightwing [sic.] Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” identified as likely terrorists “groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration,” or who would be “antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues.” Such groups, the report concluded, “are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States.” The DHS later pulled the report.

However, last August DHS and FBI agents attended a terrorism training seminar hosted by Planned Parenthood, the National Abortion Federation, and the Feminist Majority Foundation that equated free speech and distributing literature with violence. An 84-page resource guide listed three pages of potential extremist websites including Priests for Life, National Right to Life, the American Life League, Concerned Women for America, Human Life International, the American Center for Law and Justice, and the Christian Broadcasting Network."

[rivergator]

Sure:

"Under this administration, the Department of Homeland Security has listed pro-life organizations as potential domestic terrorists and held joint training sessions with the FBI to monitor pro-life websites.

An April 2009 DHS report entitled “Rightwing [sic.] Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” identified as likely terrorists “groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration,” or who would be “antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived stance on a range of issues.” Such groups, the report concluded, “are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States.” The DHS later pulled the report.



That report got a lot of attention when it was released with conservatives claiming that the administration was focused on rightwing groups. And that report did focus on the right, just like one released a couple of months before focused on the left. Neither report was produced by the Obama administration. Both were begun well before he took office.
And, yes, it listed lots of single-focus issues that could produce domestic terrorism. It hardly called anyone who opposed abortion a terrorist.

However, last August DHS and FBI agents attended a terrorism training seminar hosted by Planned Parenthood, the National Abortion Federation, and the Feminist Majority Foundation that equated free speech and distributing literature with violence. An 84-page resource guide listed three pages of potential extremist websites including Priests for Life, National Right to Life, the American Life League, Concerned Women for America, Human Life International, the American Center for Law and Justice, and the Christian Broadcasting Network."

I don't know if that's true or not, or if agents attending a seminar means the Obama administration is declaring pro-lifers to be terrorists.

[llm85]

That report got a lot of attention ......

Okay, then. How about this report, issued in July 2012 (when Obama was President) by the DHS http://start.umd.edu/start/publications/research_briefs/LaFree_Bersani_HotSpotsOfUSTerrorism.pdf where pro-life attacks ARE labeled as terrorist attacks.

[rivergator]

Okay, then. How about this report, issued in July 2012 (when Obama was President) by the DHS http://start.umd.edu/start/publications/research_briefs/LaFree_Bersani_HotSpotsOfUSTerrorism.pdf where pro-life attacks ARE labeled as terrorist attacks.

First of all, I think an anti-abortion bombing is just as much terrorism as any other kind. You don't?
But that's actually not what that report says. It lists a lot of types of groups that could produce those attacks including anti-abortion. That's a long way away from calling all those oppose abortion are terrorists.

[llm85]

But that's actually not what that report says. It lists a lot of types of groups that could produce those attacks including anti-abortion. That's a long way away from calling all those oppose abortion are terrorists.

No, you are wrong. The report says: "Table 6 shows the concentration of single issue terrorism for the four decades spanned by the data. Recall, single issue events include such attacks as anti-abortion, anti-Catholic, or anti-nuclear."

I am not going to be drawn into an pro-life discussion with you. I am sticking with the OP which says that the Obama Administration has labeled pro-lifers as terrorists. I have give you two examples. Why can't a liberal ever say something like "wow, it looks like I was wrong, the Obama administrattion has in fact done/admitted/called XYZ."?

This is example of why an intelligent conversation cannot be held with a liberal. They ask for proof. It is provided. Then they will refuse to admit when they are wrong and when faced with such facts, they try to change this discussion.

Pfft. I'm done with this thread.

[exiledgator]

No, you are wrong. The report says: "Table 6 shows the concentration of single issue terrorism for the four decades spanned by the data. Recall, single issue events include such attacks as anti-abortion, anti-Catholic, or anti-nuclear."

I am not going to be drawn into an pro-life discussion with you. I am sticking with the OP which says that the Obama Administration has labeled pro-lifers as terrorists. I have give you two examples. Why can't a liberal ever say something like "wow, it looks like I was wrong, the Obama administrattion has in fact done/admitted/called XYZ."?

This is example of why an intelligent conversation cannot be held with a liberal. They ask for proof. It is provided. Then they will refuse to admit when they are wrong and when faced with such facts, they try to change this discussion.

Pfft. I'm done with this thread.

With this logic, anyone named Ted or Timothy are deemed terrorists by the US Government.

[rivergator]

No, you are wrong. The report says: "Table 6 shows the concentration of single issue terrorism for the four decades spanned by the data. Recall, single issue events include such attacks as anti-abortion, anti-Catholic, or anti-nuclear."

I am not going to be drawn into an pro-life discussion with you. I am sticking with the OP which says that the Obama Administration has labeled pro-lifers as terrorists. I have give you two examples. Why can't a liberal ever say something like "wow, it looks like I was wrong, the Obama administrattion has in fact done/admitted/called XYZ."?

This is example of why an intelligent conversation cannot be held with a liberal. They ask for proof. It is provided. Then they will refuse to admit when they are wrong and when faced with such facts, they try to change this discussion.

Pfft. I'm done with this thread.

I think the main point is that just because a few extreme abortion opponents have committed acts of violence, it doesn't mean that the Obama administration or anyone else reasonable is trying to put that label on all abortion opponents.
Otherwise, you apparently don't believe that terrorism in the name of abortion opposition is terrorism. We disagree on that.

[Swampmaster]

this is not a real letter---it's a bunch of stuff copied and pasted at a zillion sites.

[Gatorrick22]

How about you explain what's true there, because pretty much everything is either just false, a strawman or weird equivalency (like how watching porn on TV in private is somehow comparable to a nativty scene in public?).

One is acceptable and the other is considered un-Constitutional by the leftists. That's the connection that you're not able to decipher.

[rivergator]

One is acceptable and the other is considered un-Constitutional by the leftists. That's the connection that you're not able to decipher.

the fact that one is private and the other is on public property is a pretty big distinction. you should be able to decipher that.

[AzCatFan]

It must be uncomfortable to be in such a tiny minority in your own state.

http://www.pewstates.org/projects/stateline/headlines/arizona-lashes-out-at-illegal-immigration-85899390295

Minority, yes. Tiny? Not so much. Romney won Arizona by less than 10 points, and that was after the Obama campaign strategically decided not to put up a fight in Arizona, but rather concentrate resources on other swing states such as Florida and Ohio. Strategy worked, of course.

Also, being a "political minority" must be a very different experience than being a racial minority, because on the surface, nobody can tell my political leanings. I'm not one for bumper stickers and political t-shirts, so I'd imagine the majority of acquaintances I run into on a daily basis (neighbors, parents at school, etc.) have no idea I'm the atheist next door! In fact, the only time I ever get interesting looks about my political leanings is when I go to vote. I live in a heavy LDS neighborhood that leans politically similar to Utah (where Romney won 75% of the vote). I am one of a few D's in my district, and I usually vote early in the morning, dressed for work, with my daughter before I drop her off for school. And as my brother puts it, the election workers are looking for where I hide the horns and goat legs since I look so normal, but am voting for evil. :grin:

Last but not least, the businesses in Arizona are slowly stepping up to the plate when it comes to immigration issues, and not surprisingly, they agree with my point of view. A recent Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexnowrasteh/2012/10/12/arizona-style-immigration-laws-hurt-the-economy/) highlights many of the economic problems that arise when states pass laws like Arizona SB 1070. It's a similar story in Alabama and Georgia as well. And eventually, the businesses will step up and put money behind candidates they see as more business friendly (read more immigrant friendly). It's already happening in Arizona, as Russell Pearce, the State Senator that sponsored SB 1070, lost a recall election in 2011, and then lost the subsequent primary in 2012 by 8 points. The reasons? His competition were surprisingly well funded. Throw in a rising Hispanic vote, and even in one of the more conservative districts in Arizona (I live in a neighboring district), the most staunch, anti-immigration politician is disgraced.

Back to the OP and the simpleton message included. Again I ask, why should we compare our Mexican border with the border between S. and N. Korea? Other than being an internationally recognized border, what other similarities are there? And if there aren't any, shouldn't our respective border policies also reflect that?

[wgbgator]

One is acceptable and the other is considered un-Constitutional by the leftists. That's the connection that you're not able to decipher.

Actually, you can watch porn in private and have a nativity scene on private property. I could get plowed in the a#$ by 10 truckers, or faithfully reenact the passion play in private too. So, I really don't see the connection. Meanwhile I can't watch porn or display a nativity scene on public property. So, KABOOM to this argument.

[Gatorrick22]

Actually, you can watch porn in private and have a nativity scene on private property. I could get plowed in the a#$ by 10 truckers, or faithfully reenact the passion play in private too. So, I really don't see the connection. Meanwhile I can't watch porn or display a nativity scene on public property. So, KABOOM to this argument.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[CalSFGator]

Actually, you can watch porn in private and have a nativity scene on private property. I could get plowed in the a#$ by 10 truckers, or faithfully reenact the passion play in private too. So, I really don't see the connection. Meanwhile I can't watch porn or display a nativity scene on public property. So, KABOOM to this argument.

Ouch, the classic heterosexual atheist dilemma. What is more painful to suffer through?