Want to be slimmer ? Eat more carbs ...

[Dreamliner]

The Italians eat three times the pasta we do and yet have one-third the obesity prevalence. The Japanese eat a sh**-ton of enriched white rice and have one-tenth the obesity prevalence we do.

Stop listening to Taubes, Dr. Oz and various other quacks. Eat your carbs!

Aside: one of our Japanese exchange-students favorite breakfasts was white rice and a white potato. That was it. She'd also remove the skin from the potato. We saved her some time showing her that it was faster using a peeler than a toothpick. :laugh:

[ajoseph]

I think it is a disservice to compare Asian and Mediterranean lifestyles with American lifestyles. I think that you will find that Mediterraneans consume far greater quantities of "healthy fats" to go with the pasta (such as olive oils), along with seafood and other healthier foods. The portions are also smaller, and generally, the Mediterraneans space their meals farther apart then Americans.

Asians consume, generally, far more seafood (and Omega 3) than Americans, and generally have a far more active lifestyle (with much more exercise).

Americans eat unhealthy carbs,and consume substantial amounts of processed foods and starches to side with the carbs. And Americans consume far greater quantities of the food, with less time between meals. And we don't exercise nearly enough. Added together, Americans get fat. When you cut out one of the problems -- processed carbs, the body is better able to consume the food and fats.

In other words, I don't think you can just say eat carbs, without explaining that by doing so, you need to also consume healthy fats and increase your level of exercise.

[Dreamliner]

I think it is a disservice to compare Asian and Mediterranean lifestyles with American lifestyles. I think that you will find that Mediterraneans consume far greater quantities of "healthy fats" to go with the pasta (such as olive oils), along with seafood and other healthier foods. The portions are also smaller, and generally, the Mediterraneans space their meals farther apart then Americans.

Asians consume, generally, far more seafood (and Omega 3) than Americans, and generally have a far more active lifestyle (with much more exercise).

Americans eat unhealthy carbs,and consume substantial amounts of processed foods and starches to side with the carbs. And Americans consume far greater quantities of the food, with less time between meals. And we don't exercise nearly enough. Added together, Americans get fat. When you cut out one of the problems -- processed carbs, the body is better able to consume the food and fats.

In other words, I don't think you can just say eat carbs, without explaining that by doing so, you need to also consume healthy fats and increase your level of exercise.

More disinformation. For starters, seafood and fish oil don't make you slimmer. Secondarily, yes, Italians and Japanese are more active than Americans, but not 'far more active', at least not enough to explain the obesity disparity.

Further, there is no such thing as 'unhealthy carbs.' This is just more quackery. I call it food moralizing. And in indirect fashion, food moralizing likely leads to unnecessary weight gain. We know that demonizing something just makes us want more of it. Almost every week I meet someone who "used to be on low-carb" and swears by it. Hmm, wonder why they're no longer doing it ? Oh, and they're almost always chubby.

Yes, Americans could stand to be more active than they are. Indeed, I encourage it. But here again, do the Japanese and Italians do cardio ?

Lastly, no people on the planet obsess more than Americans do over diet composition. Notwithstanding their worries that their diets are always deficient, most Americans' diets are fairly-well balanced. Indeed, one recent survey of obese people showed that close to 60% of them are getting 5+ servings of fruits and vegetables a day.

[ajoseph]

Americans do everything in excess. Even if we eat 5+ servings of fruits/veggies, we also are eating 5+ servings of other foods at the same time. We supersize everything. (Of course, there certainly exist volumes of Americans on the flip-side of the spectrum -- those who decide to exercise and become "all-in", exercising every free moment of the day, investing crazy dollars in the latest and best of equipment or clubs ... until they bore of the routine.)

And, there are "unhealthy carbs." Processed white bread, for example, is void of any nutritional value. It immediately processes into blood sugar at an unhealthy rate, and ultimately leads to fat because it will not be burned (consumed as energy) fast enough. Obviously, there are scores of other examples.

[ATL_Gator]

Wait a sec.. I am confused.

IF Fat = longer life

AND

We are fatter than Japan, we are fatter than France.

...

A=B, and B=C, therefore A=C...

BUT, Japan is #1 in life expectancy (82.7), France is #7 (80.95), and we are #40 (77.97). This is per some UN report (for what that's worth).

This doesn't seem to align with FAT = LIFE.

[ATL_Gator]

Americans do everything in excess. Even if we eat 5+ servings of fruits/veggies, we also are eating 5+ servings of other foods at the same time. We supersize everything. (Of course, there certainly exist volumes of Americans on the flip-side of the spectrum -- those who decide to exercise and become "all-in", exercising every free moment of the day, investing crazy dollars in the latest and best of equipment or clubs ... until they bore of the routine.)

And, there are "unhealthy carbs." Processed white bread, for example, is void of any nutritional value. It immediately processes into blood sugar at an unhealthy rate, and ultimately leads to fat because it will not be burned (consumed as energy) fast enough. Obviously, there are scores of other examples.

Just to clarify things... I would be careful about "do this, get this" ... it doesn't always work.

I am by no means fat anymore (could stand to do some slimming for vain reasons, but still).. yet I still binge on "bad things" all the freaking time... PB&J or a Grilled ham and cheese (Kraft American Slices) on classic white bread is FANTASTIC.

[ajoseph]

Wait a sec.. I am confused.

IF Fat = longer life

AND

We are fatter than Japan, we are fatter than France.

...

A=B, and B=C, therefore A=C...

BUT, Japan is #1 in life expectancy (82.7), France is #7 (80.95), and we are #40 (77.97). This is per some UN report (for what that's worth).

This doesn't seem to align with FAT = LIFE.

Unlike the OP, I am by no means a health expert, but there is a HUGE difference between "good" fat, and "bad" fat. And, there is a huge difference in the quantity of fat that we intake in terms of portion size vs. Japanese. Thus, I think your mathematical equation is unintentionally flawed.

[ajoseph]

Just to clarify things... I would be careful about "do this, get this" ... it doesn't always work.

I am by no means fat anymore (could stand to do some slimming for vain reasons, but still).. yet I still binge on "bad things" all the freaking time... PB&J or a Grilled ham and cheese (Kraft American Slices) on classic white bread is FANTASTIC.

I totally agree with you on this. Indeed, I live my life on binge-eating. I eat fairly healthy on the weekdays, and fairly unhealthy on weekends. For me, this works. For others, it may not. I think the rule of thumb is to avoid the consistency of "bad" food. We all need to indulge, but I think it's a good idea to have a plan to execute your indulgment.

[Dreamliner]

Americans do everything in excess. Even if we eat 5+ servings of fruits/veggies, we also are eating 5+ servings of other foods at the same time. We supersize everything. (Of course, there certainly exist volumes of Americans on the flip-side of the spectrum -- those who decide to exercise and become "all-in", exercising every free moment of the day, investing crazy dollars in the latest and best of equipment or clubs ... until they bore of the routine.)

And, there are "unhealthy carbs." Processed white bread, for example, is void of any nutritional value. It immediately processes into blood sugar at an unhealthy rate, and ultimately leads to fat because it will not be burned (consumed as energy) fast enough. Obviously, there are scores of other examples.

With all due respect, this is the sort of hysteria I feel compelled to stand against. Never mind other people, do you yourself EVER just want to chow down on something 'devoid of nutritional value' ? If you do - and I suspect you do - do you REALLY believe that eating is has harmed your health ?

edit: just saw where you confessed to binging on 'bad foods.' Hehe.

[Dreamliner]

Wait a sec.. I am confused.

IF Fat = longer life

AND

We are fatter than Japan, we are fatter than France.

...

A=B, and B=C, therefore A=C...

BUT, Japan is #1 in life expectancy (82.7), France is #7 (80.95), and we are #40 (77.97). This is per some UN report (for what that's worth).

This doesn't seem to align with FAT = LIFE.

Well, if the studies show anything it's that fat ain't killing Americans. We're fatter than ever and living longer than ever.

Incidentally, one recent study shows obese Japanese women living longer than their normal weight counterparts. If we can just fatten up the Japs more they probably won't croak until they're 90!

[ajoseph]

With all due respect, this is the sort of hysteria I feel compelled to stand against. Never mind other people, do you yourself EVER just want to chow down on something 'devoid of nutritional value' ? If you do - and I suspect you do - do you REALLY believe that eating is has harmed your health ?

ABSOLUTELY!!! But, I think the key, at least for me, is to avoid the consistency of bad carbs. I am no angel when it comes to food consumption. But, I try to "save" my binge-eating for the weekends, when I generally exercise more. During the week, I eat fairly healthy (and I admit I am using the term "healthy" improperly -- I should say I avoid most carbs and virtually all "bad carbs"); but on the weeknds -- it's Nachos City!

My blood work, since taking on this lifestyle (for about 8 years now) is consistently excellent. So, I really do feel that my eating lifestyle works for me.

[Dreamliner]

ABSOLUTELY!!! But, I think the key, at least for me, is to avoid the consistency of bad carbs. I am no angel when it comes to food consumption. But, I try to "save" my binge-eating for the weekends, when I generally exercise more. During the week, I eat fairly healthy (and I admit I am using the term "healthy" improperly -- I should say I avoid most carbs and virtually all "bad carbs"); but on the weeknds -- it's Nachos City!

My blood work, since taking on this lifestyle (for about 8 years now) is consistently excellent. So, I really do feel that my eating lifestyle works for me.

Am glad for your blood work (for what that's worth), and wish you good health, but would you say that binging and then exercising to compensate a 'healthy' practice ? Couldn't it be construed as a form of bulimia ? Is it healthy to be so preoccupied with calories and nutrient proportioning ?

[ajoseph]

Am glad for your blood work (for what that's worth), and wish you good health, but would you say that binging and then exercising to compensate a 'healthy' practice ?

I guess we would need to define "binging." I eat one "unhealthy" meal a day over the weekend (up to 3 meals). Unhealthy may mean a big plate of nachos, or a burger and fries, or a big popcorn at the movies. And I don't exercise to compensate; it just so happens that I typically exercise more on the weekends than during the work week.

[Dreamliner]

I guess we would need to define "binging." I eat one "unhealthy" meal a day over the weekend (up to 3 meals). Unhealthy may mean a big plate of nachos, or a burger and fries, or a big popcorn at the movies. And I don't exercise to compensate; it just so happens that I typically exercise more on the weekends than during the work week.

Please repeat after me: "There are no 'unhealthy foods.' There are only foods that taste yummy and foods that don't." :joecool:

[Dreamliner]

Also, I hasten to point out that the said-to-be-healthier-than-us Japanese eat lots and lots of 'unhealthy carbs', ditto the Italians.

[Dreamliner]

On the subject of health markers, it is not readily apparent that good numbers equal good health. For example, upwards of 70% of heart attack victims had normal cholesterol at the time. And recently, a highly-touted study seeking to show that losing weight (and thus lowering blood sugar) might curtail heart attacks in diabetics, was abandoned early on discovering that it didn't.

[Gatorrick22]

What about all the corn-syrup/corn sweeteners in all of our store bought food stocks. When was the last time you had a Coca Cola with real sugar in it? You have to buy Mexican produced coke (Costco has it) to get it with real sugar in it because we make ours with corn-sweeteners.

Doctors will tell you that there is no difference in the glucose intake between the two and that there is no difference between them as far as the how it affects our metabolism. But, I did notice one very interesting distinction between the two. When I drink a coke made with real sugar I got full after just one and I stayed feeling full for a while afterwards. Not so with the American made version with corn sweeteners. I could drink two or three before I felt that full.

Is it possible that we just eat more because we're not feeling full enough? Is there any relation with all the processed foods and their ever growing amounts on corn sweeteners that they contain?

[Dreamliner]

What about all the corn-syrup/corn sweeteners in all of our store bought food stocks. When was the last time you had a Coca Cola with real sugar in it? You have to buy Mexican produced coke (Costco has it) to get it with real sugar in it because we make ours with corn-sweeteners.

Doctors will tell you that there is no difference in the glucose intake between the two and that there is no difference between them as far as the how it affects our metabolism. But, I did notice one very interesting distinction between the two. When I drink a coke made with real sugar I got full after just one and I stayed feeling full for a while afterwards. Not so with the American made version with corn sweeteners. I could drink two or three before I felt that full.

Is it possible that we just eat more because we're not feeling full enough? Is there any relation with all the processed foods and their ever growing amounts on corn sweeteners that they contain?

I can't argue with anyone's experience but, knowing myself, if someone told me that sucrose was more satisfying than HFCS, it would likely have a placebo effect.

I'm probably also prey to placebo's evil twin, the nocebo effect (actual term). I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but typically feel a little icky afterwards, I'm guessing because it's been drilled into me that 'all that sugar and fat is bad for you."

I don't think that HFCS is any dark conspiracy. Food manufacturers are concerned for their bottom-line, like everyone else, and HFCS is a cheaper means of making their products more palatable by exciting the pleasure centers of the brain.

[Gatorrick22]

I can't argue with anyone's experience but, knowing myself, if someone told me that sucrose was more satisfying than HFCS, it would likely have a placebo effect.

I'm probably also prey to placebo's evil twin, the nocebo effect (actual term). I love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but typically feel a little icky afterwards, I'm guessing because it's been drilled into me that 'all that sugar and fat is bad for you."

I don't think that HFCS is any dark conspiracy. Food manufacturers are concerned for their bottom-line, like everyone else, and HFCS is a cheaper means of making their products more palatable by exciting the pleasure centers of the brain.

What I mean is that the corn-syrup makes coke less filling, and therefore made me more likely to drink more of it versus the sugar made coke - which fills me up with less intake.

It's absolutely physical/physiological and not.....mental.

Corn-syrup makes us consume more glucose which turns straight into fat.

[LeafUF]

I have a hard time imagining real feelings of satiety from any beverage or that the type of sugar in a drink makes a significant difference. Now sugar in drink form as opposed to solid form I can understand if it lead to overconsumption.

[Gatorrick22]

I have a hard time imagining real feelings of satiety from any beverage or that the type of sugar in a drink makes a significant difference. Now sugar in drink form as opposed to solid form I can understand if it lead to overconsumption.

What I mean to say is that corn-syrup is in everything we consume in the U.S. because of high tariffs on sugar from overseas. Therefore, we consume more of it and get fatter as a society.

[LeafUF]

What I mean to say is that corn-syrup is in everything we consume in the U.S. because of high tariffs on sugar from overseas. Therefore, we consume more of it and get fatter as a society.

A recent study in the British Medical Journal basically said that reducing sugar intake only provided a marginal reduction in weight loss in adults and none in children. Sugar in any form is but a small portion of the ultimate problem of overconsumption in this country. Now, heavily sugared drinks that offer less satiety should of course be reduced but simply changing out one type of sugar for another or replacing sugars with other carbs, fats or proteins wont solve the problem either.

[Dreamliner]

And in fact, according to the "Healthy Eating Index", FWIW, a mix of whole-grains and REFINED CARBS, along with moderate amounts of sugar, constitutes the healthiest diet.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just a windy way of saying that eating the way most people prefer to eat is the healthiest way to eat.

[Gatorrick22]

A recent study in the British Medical Journal basically said that reducing sugar intake only provided a marginal reduction in weight loss in adults and none in children. Sugar in any form is but a small portion of the ultimate problem of overconsumption in this country. Now, heavily sugared drinks that offer less satiety should of course be reduced but simply changing out one type of sugar for another or replacing sugars with other carbs, fats or proteins wont solve the problem either.

Well I'm cutting all my intake of all processed foods, I get organic if I can, and I stay far away from sweet drinks too. :grin:

Sugar/corn-sweeteners turn into fat if you don't workout. Fat is bad for the heart. And a weak heart can kill you.

[Dreamliner]

Well I'm cutting all my intake of all processed foods, I get organic if I can, and I stay far away from sweet drinks too. :grin:

Sugar/corn-sweeteners turn into fat if you don't workout. Fat is bad for the heart. And a weak heart can kill you.

Broccoli turns into fat if you eat a shit-ton of it. And as I've pointed out on the obesity thread, fat is actually good for the heart. I mean fat on your body. And trying like the dickens to get rid of it is your business, but it is an unnatural state of affairs and may be the single unhealthiest thing you can do. Exercise is great, but the guy's never-ending quest to be lean is probably a set-up for a world of trouble.

[LeafUF]

Well I'm cutting all my intake of all processed foods, I get organic if I can, and I stay far away from sweet drinks too. :grin:

Sugar/corn-sweeteners turn into fat if you don't workout. Fat is bad for the heart. And a weak heart can kill you.

Removing processed foods and sweet drinks is definitely a good start as that will make it easier to consume fewer calories. Just make sure what you are doing is something sustainable and enjoyable. People get too bogged down in the minor details which imo leads to diet failures. And the truth is everything gets stored as fat if your body cant use it for energy or repair.

[Gatorrick22]

Broccoli turns into fat if you eat a shit-ton of it. And as I've pointed out on the obesity thread, fat is actually good for the heart. I mean fat on your body. And trying like the dickens to get rid of it is your business, but it is an unnatural state of affairs and may be the single unhealthiest thing you can do. Exercise is great, but the guy's never-ending quest to be lean is probably a set-up for a world of trouble.

Maybe there's good fat and bad fat, like in cholesterol? :whistle:

[Dreamliner]

Maybe there's good fat and bad fat, like in cholesterol? :whistle:

I doubt it. Even trans-fats have probably gotten a bad rap.

[ATL_Gator]

What I mean is that the corn-syrup makes coke less filling, and therefore made me more likely to drink more of it versus the sugar made coke - which fills me up with less intake.

It's absolutely physical/physiological and not.....mental.

Corn-syrup makes us consume more glucose which turns straight into fat.

You are both right, and wrong.

Where you are right... Mexican Coke (tee hee) with real sugar is PHYSICALLY different than American Coke. IT LITERALLY does have more calories in it. Only 10 per 12 ouces, but still, physically it packs more energy in the same volume.

I suspect that HFCS ounce per ouce is sweeter than real sugar, thus to achieve the same taste, the HFCS version uses more water in the forumla, thus less calories.

Where you are wrong. Differentiating between the two is completely in your head. You already have that opinion formed and you KNOW where the can you are holding came from, thus, you already have your mind made up that at the end of the first can of Mexican Coke you are going to "feel full"..

[Gatorrick22]

You are both right, and wrong.

Where you are right... Mexican Coke (tee hee) with real sugar is PHYSICALLY different than American Coke. IT LITERALLY does have more calories in it. Only 10 per 12 ouces, but still, physically it packs more energy in the same volume.

I suspect that HFCS ounce per ouce is sweeter than real sugar, thus to achieve the same taste, the HFCS version uses more water in the forumla, thus less calories.

Where you are wrong. Differentiating between the two is completely in your head. You already have that opinion formed and you KNOW where the can you are holding came from, thus, you already have your mind made up that at the end of the first can of Mexican Coke you are going to "feel full"..

I didn't know a thing about the differences between the two, I didn't even know it wasn't American coke when I bought it. It was after drinking it and noticing a different flavor and feel that prompted me to look into it's origin. I just thought Costco had a different/better formula for coke. :grin:

[LeafUF]

You couldn't tell that the coke in a 12 oz glass bottle was different than the coke you normally find in a can or plastic bottle?

I would be more satisfied by a coke out of a glass bottle every time even if they were the same formula.

[Gatorrick22]

You couldn't tell that the coke in a 12 oz glass bottle was different than the coke you normally find in a can or plastic bottle?

I would be more satisfied by a coke out of a glass bottle every time even if they were the same formula.

It reminds me of when I was a kid drinking it out of glass instead of dangerous plastic bottles. Another thing I'm trying to avoid.

[Swampmaster]

eat a bunch of pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll lose weight?? YES!! I'll get started tonight!

[Dreamliner]

Damn! They've found one of my old weight-loss threads.

[Gatorrick22]

eat a bunch of pasta, potatoes and rice and you'll lose weight?? YES!! I'll get started tonight!

I could almost live on those three foods alone. But I'm just cutting the fats, sugars and processed foods.... plus I'm adding amino acids to supplement my nutritional needs.

It's been two weeks now and I feel better than ever. I'll keep you all posted from time to time.